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#1 Edited by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

This is Goku as he was during the second World Martial Arts Tournament (sorry had to change it to avoid a stomp, dunno what I was thinking)

Vs.

Yusuke Urameshi and Hiei as they were at the end of the Yu-Yu-Hakusho series.

Battle takes place on the Planet of the Kai's

No BFR

Fight until KO or Death

Morals off

Starting Distance 30 yds.

VS

and

#2 Edited by SMDfanboys (158 posts) - - Show Bio

------------------------_______________________________________---------------------------

Goku stomps, this is silly..

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

Hiei and Yuskue win even against the Goku that fought Raditz

..................................... I forgot i saw you on previous threads like Raditz vs Bleach and you try to derail DBZ.

#3 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

Whats the starting distance here?

#4 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@SMDfanboys: I figured but I thought I would see, I might make it an even earlier version of him. I was just watching Yu Yu- Hakusho today, and I was like oh yeah this is pretty cool also.

#5 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwing91: lets say 30 yds.

I will put it on the OP

#6 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@nightwing91: lets say 30 yds.

I will put it on the OP

okay was just curious that was important given the fact goku is still much faster then the two(Yusuke was shown to have extremely low superspeed, as shown when he first arrived in Demon World) and although that was before his training with Raizen he shouldn't have anywhere near the speed to keep up with Goku at that point.(although if he did his spirit gun and Hiei's Dragon of the Darkness flame should be able to do quite a bit of damage)

#7 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwing91: This is true

However I changed the version of Goku to avoid a stomp.

#8 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@nightwing91: This is true

However I changed the version of Goku to avoid a stomp.

Then it's a stomp in team urameshi's favor, Goku isn't defending or able to dodge against the Dragon of the Darkness Flame at this point. He's in theory slower then Hiei(Hiei himself is capable of producing after images from the start of the series) And he's not blocking Yusuke's spirit gun fueled by his demon energy( much less if Yusuke transforms as he was stated to be around Hiei's speed)

#9 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwing91: Ok changed yet again. Lol

#10 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@nightwing91: Ok changed yet again. Lol

It's better but Goku's speed didn't radically grow from the 21st to the 22nd World Martial Arts tournament. If Hiei unleashes the Dragon goku is basically dead here, same if Yusuke unleashes his demon energy in a large spirit gun(like he did to kill Sensui it would kill Goku too) It's the fact that it's the two on one situation here, with Yusuke and Hiei both having high levels of speed that match Goku at this point and morals off) All it takes is firing off one of the two big attacks from them for the fight to end.

#11 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwing91: I suppose that is true, But I don't want to take Goku to level that he can perform moon busting attacks because that would be unfair.

#12 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow. I think Team Hakusho wins this. Heie is so much faster and Yusuke at this point is as fast. Both can seriously end Goku as well.

#13 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

Hiei and Yuskue win even against the Goku that fought Raditz

#14 Posted by icysloth (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

Wow. I think Team Hakusho wins this. Heie is so much faster and Yusuke at this point is as fast. Both can seriously end Goku as well.

#15 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder: At that point was easily a moonbuster so I don't think they could beat him.

#16 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles: Both of them could bust a moon as well what's your point? Younger Toguro who was a high B class demon couldve probably have busted a moon at full power. Anyway at the end of his series Yuskue was an S class demon and Hiei was a high A class. S class demons were said to be able to take 100's(or was it 1000's) of A class demons down. If Toguro could bust a moon and he was a B class demon then think about what Yusuke should be able to do. Yusuke was also able to survive attacks from a starving Raizen who belly grumbling shook the entire demon plane and Yusuke surpassed him towards the end

#17 Posted by No_Trolling (653 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Man_of_Miracles: Both of them could bust a moon as well what's your point? Younger Toguro who was a high B class demon couldve probably have busted a moon at full power. Anyway at the end of his series Yuskue was an S class demon and Hiei was a high A class. S class demons were said to be able to take 100's(or was it 1000's) of A class demons down. If Toguro could bust a moon and he was a B class demon then think about what Yusuke should be able to do. Yusuke was also able to survive attacks from a starving Raizen who belly grumbling shook the entire demon plane and Yusuke surpassed him towards the end

Lol there is no proof that any of them could bust a moon none of their attacks are anywhere on that level.

#18 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

DBZ is hard to balance against another series.

In-universe, we know who beats who.

DBZ isn't a good addition to the battle forums here.

Just my opinion.

#19 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@No_Trolling said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Man_of_Miracles: Both of them could bust a moon as well what's your point? Younger Toguro who was a high B class demon couldve probably have busted a moon at full power. Anyway at the end of his series Yuskue was an S class demon and Hiei was a high A class. S class demons were said to be able to take 100's(or was it 1000's) of A class demons down. If Toguro could bust a moon and he was a B class demon then think about what Yusuke should be able to do. Yusuke was also able to survive attacks from a starving Raizen who belly grumbling shook the entire demon plane and Yusuke surpassed him towards the end

Lol there is no proof that any of them could bust a moon none of their attacks are anywhere on that level.

Oh yeah? Let's look at what a Dark torunament Yuskue and Toguro did while not at full power

#20 Posted by No_Trolling (653 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder: Do you really believe that's anywhere near as large as our moon?

#21 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@No_Trolling: I dont think you understand the point i'm making the damage that spirit gun cause pales in comparison to the one he could do at the end of the series

#22 Edited by Mortein (2895 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwing91 said:

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@nightwing91: Ok changed yet again. Lol

It's better but Goku's speed didn't radically grow from the 21st to the 22nd World Martial Arts tournament.

uhh yes it has. During first tournament he was still slower than Roshi.

Kid Goku on 22 budokai was so much faster than Roshi, that Roshi and Krillin were unable to see him.

#23 Edited by kcaz (1371 posts) - - Show Bio

are you kidding? kid goku would get stomped. yuske's fight with sensui errupted the demon world and destroyed multiple continents, very much like when goku fought vegeta as ssj2. and that was when he just reached lower S class. end of the series, yuske and hiei are both upper S class, fought evenly against yomi and mukuro. yuske at end of series should be around ssj3 level, definitely higher than ssj2

#24 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@kcaz: That's my favorite fight in the series and I don't recall Yusuke and Sensui ever destroying a single continent, let alone multiple of them. To even see such a thing we would have to get a zoomed out planetary view, as a continent is far too big to see with your eyes.

I think some people in this thread don't understand how big continents and moons are.

#25 Posted by RedLanternSuperman (348 posts) - - Show Bio

@kcaz said:

are you kidding? kid goku would get stomped. yuske's fight with sensui errupted the demon world and destroyed multiple continents, very much like when goku fought vegeta as ssj2. and that was when he just reached lower S class. end of the series, yuske and hiei are both upper S class, fought evenly against yomi and mukuro. yuske at end of series should be around ssj3 level, definitely higher than ssj2

What? That is terrible logic. And doesn't make sense.

They aren't even higher then Saiyan Saga who bust planets, destroying continents is not a good feat at all.....

+ Goku and Vegeta SSJ2 could of ravaged the entire planet and easily busted it, but they had to have morals on so they were fighting at a controlled level.

They were busting continents with their melee attacks in Frieza Saga.

#26 Posted by kcaz (1371 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@kcaz: That's my favorite fight in the series and I don't recall Yusuke and Sensui ever destroying a single continent, let alone multiple of them. To even see such a thing we would have to get a zoomed out planetary view, as a continent is far too big to see with your eyes.

I think some people in this thread don't understand how big continents and moons are.

actually, they did. the level of damage is about the same as when goku fought vegeta as ssj2, maybe even higher

#27 Posted by kcaz (1371 posts) - - Show Bio

@RedLanternSuperman said:

@kcaz said:

are you kidding? kid goku would get stomped. yuske's fight with sensui errupted the demon world and destroyed multiple continents, very much like when goku fought vegeta as ssj2. and that was when he just reached lower S class. end of the series, yuske and hiei are both upper S class, fought evenly against yomi and mukuro. yuske at end of series should be around ssj3 level, definitely higher than ssj2

What? That is terrible logic. And doesn't make sense.

They aren't even higher then Saiyan Saga who bust planets, destroying continents is not a good feat at all.....

+ Goku and Vegeta SSJ2 could of ravaged the entire planet and easily busted it, but they had to have morals on so they were fighting at a controlled level.

They were busting continents with their melee attacks in Frieza Saga.

i was using the time when goku fought vegeta as ssj2 as a marker, and the level of damage when yuske fought sensui was same or higher

#28 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder: They never showed the ability to use a moonbusting attack in Yu-Yu Hakusho

#29 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@kcaz: I just watched that video, and I learned something. You have no idea what a continent is. Those were mountains being blown up, not continents. Those were maybe, a few hundred square feet. To use North America as an example of a continent, that is over 9.5 million square miles.

And do I really have to explain ki control again today? Goku and Vegeta didn't cause more damage to the surrounding area because they like having places to live. Total destruction isn't part of their MO. Damage from ki based attacks can be as large or as small as they want, without reducing the power. This is shown quite clearly in pretty much every fight in DBZ. This is why someone can be 100k times stronger than Piccolo, (23rd WMAT) and use an attack that in size is only a tiny fraction of the blast Piccolo used against Goku, yet still have it be effective against a villain from late in the series, like Cell or Buu. It's what I personally call the principle of energy condensation. It means that size doesn't matter. Something can be very small and be very powerful. That is why the highest to the lowest showings in DBZ seem so inconsistent. There's a big difference between using energy to kill, and using energy to destroy.

#30 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@kcaz: I just watched that video, and I learned something. You have no idea what a continent is. Those were mountains being blown up, not continents. Those were maybe, a few hundred square feet. To use North America as an example of a continent, that is over 9.5 million square miles.

And do I really have to explain ki control again today? Goku and Vegeta didn't cause more damage to the surrounding area because they like having places to live. Total destruction isn't part of their MO. Damage from ki based attacks can be as large or as small as they want, without reducing the power. This is shown quite clearly in pretty much every fight in DBZ. This is why someone can be 100k times stronger than Piccolo, (23rd WMAT) and use an attack that in size is only a tiny fraction of the blast Piccolo used against Goku, yet still have it be effective against a villain from late in the series, like Cell or Buu. It's what I personally call the principle of energy condensation. It means that size doesn't matter. Something can be very small and be very powerful. That is why the highest to the lowest showings in DBZ seem so inconsistent. There's a big difference between using energy to kill, and using energy to destroy.

This is further evidenced in the Saiyan saga, when Nappa destroys an entire city, but the energy does no harm him or Vegeta. Less energy spread over a much larger space.

#31 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles: Exactly. Like I said, it's all over the series. Pick any two fights and I can demonstrate this principle easily. :)

#32 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles said:

@redbird3rdboywonder: They never showed the ability to use a moonbusting attack in Yu-Yu Hakusho

They dont need to Bust a Moon. The Damage output is high enough to harm Goku bad. A Moon busting attack takes time to charge and can be dodged by these 2. The Goku back then would have been killed by a Moon Busting attack as well. If your able to shake a Deamon Planet used to high power levels like Yuske did then you can own Goku here.

#33 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: Please prove that a moon busting attack would have killed 22nd WMAT Goku.

#34 Posted by Nefarious (20308 posts) - - Show Bio

Kakarot.

#35 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@CadenceV2: Please prove that a moon busting attack would have killed 22nd WMAT Goku.

maybe the fact King Piccolo punches were not Moon Busting at all were beating down a more powerful Kid Goku.... duh.

#36 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: Do I really have to explain ki control again, on the same page? It applies to punches too bud, since they're powered by energy. Just read what I wrote to kcaz until you get it, because that would be my exact response to you.

#37 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@CadenceV2: Do I really have to explain ki control again, on the same page? It applies to punches too bud, since they're powered by energy. Just read what I wrote to kcaz until you get it, because that would be my exact response to you.

LMAO. I was in the same Raditz vs Bleach thread were Raditz Dominates.

I know all about Ki controle. Problem is this is Dragon Ball half way thru Kid Goku. NOWHERE NEAR planet busting Raditz.

Hakusho series at the end had Frieza vs Super Sayian Goku like battles where Yusukes power unleahing was ripping apart continets. More than any feat of Kid Goku at this point.

Speed wise there similiar as well. Yusuke was moving at Lightning Speed and Heie was faster. Kid Goku is not winning to speed.

So in this match Kid Goku gets double team and overpowered.

#38 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: They were moon busting in DB with power levels of 180. King Piccolo has a PL of 260. Well above moon busting level.

And I don't know where in the world you and kcaz got the idea from that anyone in yu yu hakusho has ever busted or ripped apart a continent. That is some of the most ridiculous fan wank I've ever seen.

#39 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@CadenceV2: They were moon busting in DB with power levels of 180. King Piccolo has a PL of 260. Well above moon busting level.

And I don't know where in the world you and kcaz got the idea from that anyone in yu yu hakusho has ever busted or ripped apart a continent. That is some of the most ridiculous fan wank I've ever seen.

So says the Fanwanking who thinks a mid version of kid Goku can take High Class A Heie and S Class Yusuke. lol

#40 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles: Yeah they have shown attacks within that range easily as the show progressed. Many anime never show the over the top destruction that DBZ does but still have the power to bust moons and planets

#41 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Yusuke Solos!!!

Heck Heie could beat this Goku 1 on 1 probaly.

Heie Speed is slower here than what OP posted. he also has spirit Energy that disentegrates ya in the Sword of the Darkness Flame.

#42 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder: As evidenced by what?

nothing at all has shown that they have this ability, or even close to it.

You can't just say oh they can moon bust, with no showing in any part of the series where any of the characters do.

#43 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Man_of_Miracles: Yeah they have shown attacks within that range easily as the show progressed. Many anime never show the over the top destruction that DBZ does but still have the power to bust moons and planets

Add to that you dont need to bust moons to beat this Goku. DBZ had characters killed without destroying a planet or moon attacks. They simply where them down. DBZ character are more Powerful in attacks than Defense and need a powerful Ki attack or barrier to stop a Moon Busting Ki Attack.

Important to remember as Yusuke Power and Heie's disentgrating attacks can end this version of Goku easily with a hit.

#44 Edited by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: Don't change the subject. We were talking about how Yusuke has never busted a continent, remember? Or rather, you claim that he did, I say that's BS and you need to prove it. You imagining feats doesn't help your argument.

If you wish to prove that Goku can be beaten by an attack that isn't capable of destroying a moon or planet, then you need to prove that a DBZ character's durability doesn't scale at roughly the same rate as their offensive abilities.

#45 Posted by GunGunW (996 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting, you matched the characters from my two favorite animes of all time up with each other. I'd still have to give it to Goku, though.

#46 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@CadenceV2: Don't change the subject. We were talking about how Yusuke has never busted a continent, remember? Or rather, you claim that he did, I say that's BS and you need to prove it. You imagining feats doesn't help your argument.

Wow you cant read a post and have no ground to stand. LOL

I never said he bust continents in the show. I said his power shakes the Daemon World that Yusuke and sensui fought on. Watch the Vid as Yusuke power Level alone was whipping up lightning storms and causing the mesa to crumble. LOL

Wow this is a video of the Strongest Version of kid Goku and thats his best attack?! Thats not Planet nor Moon Busting guy LOL.

#47 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles: Go back and look at how I explained it to No trolling and the video I posed. That destruction came from a restrained Yuskue who had not even taken off his Spirit cuffs yet that was holding back his full power. Yusuke in that video at that point was prehaps a high C or low B. At the end of his series he's an S rank, meaning multiply the damage that attack caused by 100 or possibly 1000 and there's you evidence. Like I said many people think that Dbz characters are super powerful because many anime havent shown the level of destruction that Dbz has but that doesnt mean they dont have the power. Hell Kuwabara can cut through dimensions and Goku hasnt ever done that. There are even some digimon who can bust planets but they've never done it either, but that doesnt mean they dont have the power to do so.

#48 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Man_of_Miracles: Yeah they have shown attacks within that range easily as the show progressed. Many anime never show the over the top destruction that DBZ does but still have the power to bust moons and planets

Add to that you dont need to bust moons to beat this Goku. DBZ had characters killed without destroying a planet or moon attacks. They simply where them down. DBZ character are more Powerful in attacks than Defense and need a powerful Ki attack or barrier to stop a Moon Busting Ki Attack.

Important to remember as Yusuke Power and Heie's disentgrating attacks can end this version of Goku easily with a hit.

Very true but still my point is that Yusuke had the raw power to destroy the moon if he so chose to. Raizen's belly grumblings was causing the Entire demon plane to shake so imagine what he could do at full power and at the end of the series Yusuke surpassed him. People who bring up DBZ facts like to use ABC logic but dont like when it's applied in another situation

#49 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Man_of_Miracles: Go back and look at how I explained it to No trolling and the video I posed. That destruction came from a restrained Yuskue who had not even taken off his Spirit cuffs yet that was holding back his full power. Yusuke in that video at that point was prehaps a high C or low B. At the end of his series he's an S rank, meaning multiply the damage that attack caused by 100 or possibly 1000 and there's you evidence. Like I said many people think that Dbz characters are super powerful because many anime havent shown the level of destruction that Dbz has but that doesnt mean they dont have the power. Hell Kuwabara can cut through dimensions and Goku hasnt ever done that. There are even some digimon who can bust planets but they've never done it either, but that doesnt mean they dont have the power to do so.

I already did.

Do you understand how large the moon is?

Even if Yusuke was 1000 times more powerful than during the Dark Tournament attack. (it was probably more like 100 times)

He would still be no where near strong enough to destroy the moon.

#50 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Man_of_Miracles: Yeah they have shown attacks within that range easily as the show progressed. Many anime never show the over the top destruction that DBZ does but still have the power to bust moons and planets

Add to that you dont need to bust moons to beat this Goku. DBZ had characters killed without destroying a planet or moon attacks. They simply where them down. DBZ character are more Powerful in attacks than Defense and need a powerful Ki attack or barrier to stop a Moon Busting Ki Attack.

Important to remember as Yusuke Power and Heie's disentgrating attacks can end this version of Goku easily with a hit.

Very true but still my point is that Yusuke had the raw power to destroy the moon if he so chose to. Raizen's belly grumblings was causing the Entire demon plane to shake so imagine what he could do at full power and at the end of the series Yusuke surpassed him. People who bring up DBZ facts like to use ABC logic but dont like when it's applied in another situation

That isn't ABC logic this is.

ABC Logic example: A can destroy a planet, B>A, therefore B can destroy a planet.

Here is your logic: Raizen belly grumblings shook the demon plane, he wasn't full power, but then Yusuke passed him at full power, therefore he can moonbust.

Wut?