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#1 Posted by Pistolwhip1 (849 posts) - - Show Bio

 
 
vs 
 
 
God Emperor of Mankind (Warmhammer 40K) vs Morgoth (LOTR) 
 
•Winner by death, surrender, cocealment. 
•Morlas off 
•Normal equipment.  
•Start off hundred feet from each other. 
• Fight takes place in Middle eart
#2 Posted by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

Morgoth, also is their prep?

#3 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Well unless Morgoth is ready to best a Psyker who can destroy a Fleet Armada in Space or fend off 4 Chaos Gods in Death.... Im going with Big E.
#4 Posted by justleader (1708 posts) - - Show Bio

morgoth takes this he could casually take beings like valar who could make not just planets but different aspects of universe, he was by far the mightiest of them all he also escaped the void designed by God himself(eru) and he was going to destroy the sun and the moon and capable of creating many races like dragons, balrogs,........

#5 Edited by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

@justleader said:

morgoth takes this he could casually take beings like valar who could make not just planets but different aspects of universe, he was by far the mightiest of them all he also escaped the void designed by God himself(eru) and he was going to destroy the sun and the moon and capable of creating many races like dragons, balrogs,........

Morgoth makes mountains and planet and continents and breaks them for fun. He can make Life. He is immortal. He has returned from the dead a few times. I'm going Morgoth.

#6 Posted by ShootingNova (19078 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Thunderer: If this is the same emperor I am thinking about.... I think he wins.

#7 Posted by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Seriously? What's his best feat/ skill ?

#8 Posted by ShootingNova (19078 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Thunderer: Instantly possessing whatever is evil, crushing entire armies or something with a gesture, and something else. Let me find the debate again.

#9 Posted by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@The_Thunderer: Instantly possessing whatever is evil, crushing entire armies or something with a gesture, and something else. Let me find the debate again.

If he can do that Melkor is F****** lol

#10 Posted by ShootingNova (19078 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Thunderer: Yup.

#11 Posted by Primarch (595 posts) - - Show Bio

Emperor of Mankind has also spent the last ten thousand years projecting a psychic beacon that can be tracked from anywhere in the 40k Galaxy (humans occupy "at least" a million worlds).

A good description (from a very well sourced and reliable 40k wiki) of the Emperor's role in the Imperium of Man.

"His will is omnipotent, extending across the million worlds that comprise his Imperium. For ten thousand years the Master of Mankind has served mankind, simultaneously carrying out a multitude of tasks vital to its survival and to the survival of the Imperium. All at once he guides his race through the Emperor's Tarot, soul-binds psykers, holds audiences with his most important servants and beams the Astronomican beacon. His immense psychic powers constantly keep the Chaotic powers of the Warp at bay, preventing their intrusion into the material universe and protecting his people throughout the galaxy."

#12 Posted by Baldy (4914 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primarch said:

Emperor of Mankind has also spent the last ten thousand years projecting a psychic beacon that can be tracked from anywhere in the 40k Galaxy (humans occupy "at least" a million worlds).

A good description (from a very well sourced and reliable 40k wiki) of the Emperor's role in the Imperium of Man.

"His will is omnipotent, extending across the million worlds that comprise his Imperium. For ten thousand years the Master of Mankind has served mankind, simultaneously carrying out a multitude of tasks vital to its survival and to the survival of the Imperium. All at once he guides his race through the Emperor's Tarot, soul-binds psykers, holds audiences with his most important servants and beams the Astronomican beacon. His immense psychic powers constantly keep the Chaotic powers of the Warp at bay, preventing their intrusion into the material universe and protecting his people throughout the galaxy."

It's important to mention that he requires the sacrifice of 1,000 psykers every single day to pull this kind of stuff off. Without the help of the golden throne I'm not sure the Emperor has the kind of psychic power to take Morgoth. If he had, he would have just crushed Horus' mind instead of double KO'ing.

I think the Emperor could take Morgoth in a straight fight, but I don't know how it would go if magic and psychic power were involved as neither have enough feats to back them up in that case, no matter what the LoTR fanboys might want you to think.

#13 Posted by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

Morgoth takes this. People can say that emperor of mankind has taken over planetS as in plural but people fail to realize the only world in the LOTR universe is Arda. Morgoth also can't be cut except by a magic blade and is a matter manipulator

#14 Posted by Primarch (595 posts) - - Show Bio

@Baldy said:

@Primarch said:

Emperor of Mankind has also spent the last ten thousand years projecting a psychic beacon that can be tracked from anywhere in the 40k Galaxy (humans occupy "at least" a million worlds).

A good description (from a very well sourced and reliable 40k wiki) of the Emperor's role in the Imperium of Man.

"His will is omnipotent, extending across the million worlds that comprise his Imperium. For ten thousand years the Master of Mankind has served mankind, simultaneously carrying out a multitude of tasks vital to its survival and to the survival of the Imperium. All at once he guides his race through the Emperor's Tarot, soul-binds psykers, holds audiences with his most important servants and beams the Astronomican beacon. His immense psychic powers constantly keep the Chaotic powers of the Warp at bay, preventing their intrusion into the material universe and protecting his people throughout the galaxy."

It's important to mention that he requires the sacrifice of 1,000 psykers every single day to pull this kind of stuff off. Without the help of the golden throne I'm not sure the Emperor has the kind of psychic power to take Morgoth. If he had, he would have just crushed Horus' mind instead of double KO'ing.

I think the Emperor could take Morgoth in a straight fight, but I don't know how it would go if magic and psychic power were involved as neither have enough feats to back them up in that case, no matter what the LoTR fanboys might want you to think.

The Emperor wasn't interested in killing Horus, the writings about his fight against Horus clearly state on more then one occasion he was holding back & he made every effort to redeem his son before discovering that Horus was lost forever to Chaos, at which point he one shotted and obliterated Horus's soul.

The vast majority of the Emperor's power & soul were lost in the battle against Horus. What remains on the Golden Throne is only a fraction of the Emperor's Power and the Psykers that are sacrificed are only one part of what keeps him going, his personal willpower has also kept him alive despite fatal injuries. The fact that his broken body, mind & soul are sufficient to protect a million worlds while doing numerous other things to protect the Imperium are testament to what he is. OP is using an image of the Emperor when he was at the height of his power. Morgoth has nothing on his scale.

#15 Posted by clemj (817 posts) - - Show Bio

EMPEROR

#16 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6836 posts) - - Show Bio

Morgoth stomps.

#17 Edited by Baldy (4914 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primarch said:

The Emperor wasn't interested in killing Horus, the writings about his fight against Horus clearly state on more then one occasion he was holding back & he made every effort to redeem his son before discovering that Horus was lost forever to Chaos, at which point he one shotted and obliterated Horus's soul.

The vast majority of the Emperor's power & soul were lost in the battle against Horus. What remains on the Golden Throne is only a fraction of the Emperor's Power and the Psykers that are sacrificed are only one part of what keeps him going, his personal willpower has also kept him alive despite fatal injuries. The fact that his broken body, mind & soul are sufficient to protect a million worlds while doing numerous other things to protect the Imperium are testament to what he is. OP is using an image of the Emperor when he was at the height of his power. Morgoth has nothing on his scale.

I have to admit that I haven't read indepth on the Horus fight, I just know that he was so wounded by the end of it that he needed to be placed into a state of effective stasis for the rest of his existence. Does he have any actual feats? As far as I remember the astral beacon started after he was placed on the golden throne (could be wrong about this).

@VercingetorixTheGreat said:

Morgoth takes this. People can say that emperor of mankind has taken over planetS as in plural but people fail to realize the only world in the LOTR universe is Arda. Morgoth also can't be cut except by a magic blade and is a matter manipulator

This is what I hate about LoTR fan arguments. You made half of this up, Morgoth has very little in the way of feats and as far as I remember no reference to being immune to magical weaponry. Certainly Morgoth's experiments effectively invented Orcs but the Emperor of Mankind invented space marines and I wonder which one is the better creation?

Not only would you have to prove that Morgoth is immune to mundane weapons, you would also have to prove that he is immune to psychic weapons that are perfectly good at killing Morgoth-like entities (read: denizens of chaos) as the Emperor would be wielding a force sword in the fight.

#18 Posted by leito (271 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Thunderer said:

@justleader said:

morgoth takes this he could casually take beings like valar who could make not just planets but different aspects of universe, he was by far the mightiest of them all he also escaped the void designed by God himself(eru) and he was going to destroy the sun and the moon and capable of creating many races like dragons, balrogs,........

Morgoth makes mountains and planet and continents and breaks them for fun. He can make Life. He is immortal. He has returned from the dead a few times. I'm going Morgoth.

Morgoth cannot create life, he can only corrupt it.

#19 Edited by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

@leito: Balrogs. Fire Drake's. Dragons.

#20 Posted by leito (271 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Thunderer: Balrogs are corrupted maiar. They were created by Eru and later seduced by Melkor/Morgoth.

#21 Posted by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

@leito: Their spirits were created by Eru, however the discord Melkor produced in the Ainulindale gave them their bodies and conciousness essentially

#22 Posted by BigCimmerian (8866 posts) - - Show Bio

Morgoth wins, his mace Grond can shatter the Earth

#23 Posted by OmegaDynasty (9199 posts) - - Show Bio
@The_Thunderer said:

@BigCimmerian: that is true, but emperor sounds tougher than the earth

Think he is, not sure if he would classed as a Skyfather level being. 
#24 Posted by leito (271 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Thunderer: "For of the Maiar many were drawn to his splendour in the days of his greatness, and remained in that allegiance down into his darkness; and others he corrupted afterwards to his service with lies and treacherous gifts. Dreadful among these spirits were the Valaraukar, the scourges of fire that in Middle-earth were called the Balrogs, demons of terror."

"For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Iluvatar; and naught that had life of its own, nor the semblance of life, could ever Melkor make since his rebellion in the Ainulindale before the Beginning"

"The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own."

#25 Posted by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't realise this, battle takes place in ME which Melkor practically created and he invested a ton of his power into the shaping of it, so he will win here 9/10 but in another location it will be fairer.

#26 Posted by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

@leito: I know I already conceeded that Eru creates life itself, but Balrogs were corrupted and turned into fiery demons by Melkor and he made their corporal form.

#27 Posted by The Devil Tiger (1263 posts) - - Show Bio

God Emperor for the win. Morgoth would have failed against Feanor and Fingolfin if it wasn't for the curse of the Valar. He was also seduced and tricked by Luthien. The Emperor can won this, maybe not easily, but won nonetheless.

#28 Edited by sunhawk (550 posts) - - Show Bio

god emperor wins easily, dropping a space ship the size of a city from orbit on him would barely be an annoyance. the emperor can destroy solar systems. in his state of near death with just a small amount of cells alive on the golden throne he fights back 4 chaos gods. also while barely alive on the golden throne he powers the psychic beacon that shines through out the galaxy allowing safe travel of ships through the warp.

#29 Posted by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

@Baldy: Morgoth has created dragons.... hmm Dragons>Space Marines

#30 Posted by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Devil Tiger: Only reason Morgoth lost those is cos he had been investing large amounts of his power into ME itself..

#31 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian said:

Morgoth wins, his mace Grond can shatter the Earth

Where in Darkseid's name did you get that idea?

#32 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (35134 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't the GEoM just one-shot the solar system?

#33 Edited by Strider92 (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

Can't the GEoM just one-shot the solar system?

Depends what version. If its pre-Hersey and not holding back yes he could. If this is post-Hersey then most likely no.

#34 Posted by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom: Who do you think? I reckon ME location tips it to Melkor

#35 Posted by kingkronos (2501 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Thunderer said:

@justleader said:

morgoth takes this he could casually take beings like valar who could make not just planets but different aspects of universe, he was by far the mightiest of them all he also escaped the void designed by God himself(eru) and he was going to destroy the sun and the moon and capable of creating many races like dragons, balrogs,........

Morgoth makes mountains and planet and continents and breaks them for fun. He can make Life. He is immortal. He has returned from the dead a few times. I'm going Morgoth.

Something I want to note: Only Eru himself can create life. For example Aule created the bodies of the dwarfs but only Eru can give them consciousness. The true power of creation lies only in the hands of God.

On topic: Morgoth stomps.

#36 Posted by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingkronos: I know, I was wrong :/ Aule did try and give them conciousness :D

#37 Posted by kingkronos (2501 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@BigCimmerian said:

Morgoth wins, his mace Grond can shatter the Earth

Where in Darkseid's name did you get that idea?

It was actually stated somewhere in the books, but he never demonstrated it. He was also prophesized to devour the sun and the moon. And he comes from a race called Valar, practically gods, who can create constellations easily.

#38 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingkronos said:

It was actually stated somewhere in the books, but he never demonstrated it. He was also prophesized to devour the sun and the moon. And he comes from a race called Valar, practically gods, who can create constellations easily.

Quotes or it didn't happen. The only such instance I know of is Morgoth gouging giant pits in the earth with each strike in his battle with Fingolfin, which, given how Fingolfin was able to dance around them, hardly threathened the integrity of the world.

What he will or will not do to the sun and the moon is also irrelevant given how the sun and the moon are basically two sky-faring ships in LOTR.

@The_Thunderer said:

@AtPhantom: Who do you think? I reckon ME location tips it to Melkor

I don't know. I don't know enough about the God-Emperor and his power level.

#39 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@VercingetorixTheGreat

said:

@Baldy: Morgoth has created dragons.... hmm Dragons>Space Marines

LOL no. Hell the Salamanders slay dragons for Sport. Space Marines slay Greater Deamon of the Gods.

Space Marines vs Avatars of Khains, Blood Thirsters, Great Unlcean Ones, Keeper of Secrets, Lord of Changes, and Daemon Princes.

You Dragons are cute cuddly teddy bears to Space Marines and the Horros they face. Emperor did a Damn good job of making the Super Soldiers of Super Soilders. No what else the Emperor Made?

The Emperor created, CREATED, 20 Primarchs from nothing but his own Genetics. All 20 Primarchs have different traits and even special gifts they aquirred from there Father. They also have the power of the Warp itself in there very being. These are Gods among Mortals. They each creat and sustain there own Space Marine Legion thru there Geneseed. There legacy, power, traits. The Primarchs will wreck any Dragon, Balrog or Sauron in the LOTR universe.

The Emperor in his Prime took on all 4 Major Chaos Powers channeled thru Horus. It makes sense he died. Before that he Imprison a shard of the Void Dragon, one of 4 Survivng Star Gods (C'Tan) in the Galaxy. He conqured 80% of the Galaxy in 200 years. He is the most powerful Psyker thru Deals with the Warp and his knowledge of Science along with his already formible Psyker might.

Hes a beast. And after 7000 years of death he still around guiding the Imperium.

#40 Edited by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: Trust me, these dragons like Anacalgon are so big they block out the sky.

@AtPhantom: It is the second prophesy of Mandos that Morogth will break free, here is exact quote: "Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of the Night out of the Timeless Void; and he shall destroy the Sunand the Moon". It is legit.

#41 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Thunderer said:

@AtPhantom: It is the second prophesy of Mandos that Morogth will break free, here is exact quote: "Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of the Night out of the Timeless Void; and he shall destroy the Sunand the Moon". It is legit.

Okay, but I didn't question that. I'm merely pointing that in LOTR, eating the sun and the moon doesn't exactly mean shuffling celestial bodies around.

#42 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Thunderer:

I really dont care Ever seen a Hive Ship? There as big as Continates. a Handful of SMs can bring them down.

These are also the same dragons killed with Bows. I like to see how long any Dragon or Balrog can last against a Lascannon or Orbital Bombardment... those are thing Space Marines alone can survive.

The Emperor has the Psychic power to crush Worlds and the Science to wipe out Solar Systems... What can a guy who cant even fully Curropt ME do to a Guy who has Ruled 4/5 of the Galaxy?

#43 Posted by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2:

4/5 of his known world, Morgoth controlled prolly 2/3 of the known world..

@AtPhantom:

My bad, when you said "Quotes or it didn't happen" I thought you were referring to the prophecy rather than earth shattering hammer strikes.

#44 Posted by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: ummm Arda is the only planet in the LOTR universe so conquering it would be the equivalent of conquering the universe. Conquering a bunch of no name planets isn't impressive. Actually no they are not just killed with Bows. Ancalagon's fire breath would melt through any space marine around probably melt the God Emperor of Mankind also. This is on middle earth not in space giving Morgoth a clear advantage

#45 Posted by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: Hive Ship doesn't breathe fire does it. ? Regardless, according to Tolkien, Arda to Melkor is like the One Ring to Sauron, the single largest investment of power made, so with that boost I don't see him losing. How many universes has GEoM created again? with music (and some help from god)?

#46 Edited by Strider92 (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Thunderer said:

@CadenceV2: Trust me, these dragons like Anacalgon are so big they block out the sky.

I'm going to throw in there that the Dragons in the LOTR-verse had surprisingly crappy durability. Smaug was killed by an arrow to the chest. Glaurung was killed by a stab to the chest by Turin. Scatha was also slain by a stab wound from Eotheod. None of the characters posted in Candence's post wound even noticed a stab wound(thats IF you could penetrate them) and most deamons can survive decapitation (execpt if its with a blessed relic or a nemesis force weapon). Dragons in LOTR are pretty unimpressive.

As for Anacalgon blocking out the sky it was actually said he blocked out the light from the sun. While both are big feats, blocking out the sun is a significantly smaller feat than blocking out the sky. For example millions of arrows fired into the air (al la 300) could block out the light but not the entire sky. When Lion El Johnson (Dark Angel Primach) fought his brother (I believe it was Fulgrim? i'll need to double check that) in unarmed combat every time they punched one another they shook the entire battlefield and they where at this for days. Tanking blows that can shake the earth around them for that amount of time is a LOT more durability than is shown by any LOTR monster.

I'm still thinking who would win between the Emperor and Morgoth because i'm not that sure so don't take this as an argument towards their fight because it isn't i'm simply pointing out that compared with most mid to high tier 40k characters LOTR high tier are lower in comparison.

I'll come back with my decision later as i'm a big fan of both universes I don't want to overlook anything.

#47 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@VercingetorixTheGreat: Truth be told Emperor with the Imperium could blast the Blanet or Virus Bomb it of Life or wipe the mind of every thinking creature on there.

Hes outclass cuase all he can relate to is one world. Also he has a Lack of Feats as well. Mostly hear Say which always been LOTR univeres a fail on Discussion threads.

@The_Thunderer: No... they cant breat fire LoL. Also Unlike the LotR where Gods creat Worlds the GEoM has no need since he destroyed more worlds then Morgoth has..... ever....

Also how mant worlds has your guy made? Oh none he curropts them and cant even fully do that.

#48 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: It was Corax he fought. The Night Haunter. One of the best damn rimarchs ever. Fulgrim fought only Ferrus (who he killed) and as a Deamon Prince Guilliman.... who he killed too. LOL.

#49 Posted by HolySerpent (12819 posts) - - Show Bio

Those armos look stupid and overdone

#50 Posted by sunhawk (550 posts) - - Show Bio

plus don't forget if the emperor hadn't been a sentimental old sod when dealing with horus. he would have effortlessly curbstomped him. his feelings for his son horus is the only reason a mere primarch managed to wound the God Emperor. the emperor could blink and beat this guy.