GhostRider,Dracula (Marvel),Hellstorm vs WonderWoman,Raven,Grundy

Both teams get no prep or outside help what so ever.

No PIS,CIS,Speed Blitz or BFR.

Only Standard Equipment

Grundy is in his strongest incarnation.

Fight takes place in a realm of eternal Night and darkness.

Win by Death or anything equivalent.

Give reasons

There is a SMALL chance that WW's Lasso would remove the Spirit of Vengeance from Johnny (assuming it's Johnny). Hellstorm I just read up on and he seems a pretty tough dude. I don't know what Grundy's average strength is. Usually he's seen as incredibly powerful. After reading about Dracula I think he'll be tough to beat. Unless there is a wooden stake in the realm of eternal night and darkness team 1 is looking good. Honestly GR, WW and Grundy are the only ones here I have any real knowledge of.

@*Void*: What is death's equivalent?

Dude aside from superman Ghost rider could beat just about any DC person, hell any marvel person as well

team marvel

@crackerjack82 said:

Dude aside from superman Ghost rider could beat just about any DC person, hell any marvel person as well

I changed the OP so Blaze could get a little of a challenge.

@Pokeysteve said:

There is a SMALL chance that WW's Lasso would remove the Spirit of Vengeance from Johnny (assuming it's Johnny). Hellstorm I just read up on and he seems a pretty tough dude. I don't know what Grundy's average strength is. Usually he's seen as incredibly powerful. After reading about Dracula I think he'll be tough to beat. Unless there is a wooden stake in the realm of eternal night and darkness team 1 is looking good. Honestly GR, WW and Grundy are the only ones here I have any real knowledge of.

@*Void*: What is death's equivalent?

Yes its Johnny blaze.

Sealing and K.O etc..

None of them are killing Rider.

ghost rider just uses Penance Stare

WW will have to use her lasso on Dracula to not let him change into for and use magic from some unknown place.
 
Ghost Rider should be able to take any of his enemies here.
 
Hellstorm is pretty powerfull and I don't know how Grundy's strength can be usefull here.

@*Void* said:

@*Void*: What is death's equivalent?

Yes its Johnny blaze.

Sealing and K.O etc..

Thank you. Ghost Rider can be K.O.ed. Strange did it. I'm sure someone on team DC can knock him out. I'm thinking Wonder Woman slams her Bracelets on his head. They were Zeus' after all. Hellstorm is still a wildcard for me though.

@*Void* said:

@*Void*: What is death's equivalent?

Yes its Johnny blaze.

Sealing and K.O etc..

Thank you. Ghost Rider can be K.O.ed. Strange did it. I'm sure someone on team DC can knock him out. I'm thinking Wonder Woman slams her Bracelets on his head. They were Zeus' after all. Hellstorm is still a wildcard for me though.

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

@*Void* said:

@*Void*: What is death's equivalent?

Yes its Johnny blaze.

Sealing and K.O etc..

Thank you. Ghost Rider can be K.O.ed. Strange did it. I'm sure someone on team DC can knock him out. I'm thinking Wonder Woman slams her Bracelets on his head. They were Zeus' after all. Hellstorm is still a wildcard for me though.

Scans? Besides, Strange uses magic, which is very usefull against Rider. Classic brutal attack wouldn't have the same effect, since Rider canreform from any injury. You simply have to hurt Zarathos to hurt Rider.

Scans of what? Strange hurting Rider? I don't have them but they're the same ones you see in every GR thread. Strange puts him down for a bit then GR Penance Stares him. WW is also magic. Standard equipment for her is a magic Lasso, unbreakable Bracelets, and a magic Tiara. Combined with her strength it could be argued she could knock him out at the least.

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

@*Void* said:

@*Void*: What is death's equivalent?

Yes its Johnny blaze.

Sealing and K.O etc..

Thank you. Ghost Rider can be K.O.ed. Strange did it. I'm sure someone on team DC can knock him out. I'm thinking Wonder Woman slams her Bracelets on his head. They were Zeus' after all. Hellstorm is still a wildcard for me though.

Scans? Besides, Strange uses magic, which is very usefull against Rider. Classic brutal attack wouldn't have the same effect, since Rider canreform from any injury. You simply have to hurt Zarathos to hurt Rider.

Scans of what? Strange hurting Rider? I don't have them but they're the same ones you see in every GR thread. Strange puts him down for a bit then GR Penance Stares him. WW is also magic. Standard equipment for her is a magic Lasso, unbreakable Bracelets, and a magic Tiara. Combined with her strength it could be argued she could knock him out at the least.

Team Marvel.

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

@*Void* said:

@*Void*: What is death's equivalent?

Yes its Johnny blaze.

Sealing and K.O etc..

Thank you. Ghost Rider can be K.O.ed. Strange did it. I'm sure someone on team DC can knock him out. I'm thinking Wonder Woman slams her Bracelets on his head. They were Zeus' after all. Hellstorm is still a wildcard for me though.

Scans? Besides, Strange uses magic, which is very usefull against Rider. Classic brutal attack wouldn't have the same effect, since Rider canreform from any injury. You simply have to hurt Zarathos to hurt Rider.

Scans of what? Strange hurting Rider? I don't have them but they're the same ones you see in every GR thread. Strange puts him down for a bit then GR Penance Stares him. WW is also magic. Standard equipment for her is a magic Lasso, unbreakable Bracelets, and a magic Tiara. Combined with her strength it could be argued she could knock him out at the least.

1.Since we're talking about that fight - Rider stomped Strange. And even if You destroy his body, he will regenerate in seconds. 2.WW's magic isn't offensive one. Even if she will use her lasso, he still can "look at them". GR isn't weak to magic, like Supergirl. Its presence isn't hurting him. Magic is just only thing that works on him, which is a huge difference. Her strength doesn't matter.

For one the lasso both can and has been used as an offensive weapon, but in it's more commonly used manner it's enough to incapacitate both GR and Dracula...

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.Since we're talking about that fight - Rider stomped Strange. And even if You destroy his body, he will regenerate in seconds. 2.WW's magic isn't offensive one. Even if she will use her lasso, he still can "look at them". GR isn't weak to magic, like Supergirl. Its presence isn't hurting him. Magic is just only thing that works on him, which is a huge difference. Her strength doesn't matter.

For one the lasso both can and has been used as an offensive weapon, but in it's more commonly used manner it's enough to incapacitate both GR and Dracula...

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.Since we're talking about that fight - Rider stomped Strange. And even if You destroy his body, he will regenerate in seconds. 2.WW's magic isn't offensive one. Even if she will use her lasso, he still can "look at them". GR isn't weak to magic, like Supergirl. Its presence isn't hurting him. Magic is just only thing that works on him, which is a huge difference. Her strength doesn't matter.

For one the lasso both can and has been used as an offensive weapon, but in it's more commonly used manner it's enough to incapacitate both GR and Dracula...

1.Not in the same time. 2.What does it matter that Rider wouldn't be able to move? He still can use PS on them even in that position.

The lasso is of infinite length. So I fail to see your point.

@crackerjack82 said:

Dude aside from superman Ghost rider could beat just about any DC person, hell any marvel person as well

Well technically GR could use Penance Stare on Superman, its not like he doesnt have guilt but i dont think GR has enough speed.

@Pokeysteve said:

Thank you. Ghost Rider can be K.O.ed. Strange did it. I'm sure someone on team DC can knock him out.

Well GR cannot be KOed has never been KOed without holy/unholy weapons. Strange/ WWHulk/ normal Hulk all have tried and failed. They manage to hurt him, destroy his body but he regenerates in less than a pannel.

I'm thinking Wonder Woman slams her Bracelets on his head. They were Zeus' after all.

Call me crazy but that might just work, after all he had problem with Sin when she had the hammer from asgard. Zeus is every bit a god as Serpent, i think that could work.

Hellstorm is still a wildcard for me though.

That would depend on his morals, he has shown the ability to convert giants into small tiny replica of themselves with highly diminished powers. Kind of hard to explain i think scans would speak for themselves. If you are interested its from Marvel 0.1 - Villains for Hire. I personally cant think of a reason why this wouldnt work, technically speedblitz would be most effective here but that has been removed by the OP.

Gallery

@czarny_samael666: Couldn't Raven whip up something for GR?

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.Since we're talking about that fight - Rider stomped Strange. And even if You destroy his body, he will regenerate in seconds. 2.WW's magic isn't offensive one. Even if she will use her lasso, he still can "look at them". GR isn't weak to magic, like Supergirl. Its presence isn't hurting him. Magic is just only thing that works on him, which is a huge difference. Her strength doesn't matter.

For one the lasso both can and has been used as an offensive weapon, but in it's more commonly used manner it's enough to incapacitate both GR and Dracula...

1.Not in the same time. 2.What does it matter that Rider wouldn't be able to move? He still can use PS on them even in that position.

The lasso is of infinite length. So I fail to see your point.

I'm thinking Wonder Woman slams her Bracelets on his head. They were Zeus' after all.

Call me crazy but that might just work, after all he had problem with Sin when she had the hammer from asgard. Zeus is every bit a god as Serpent, i think that could work.

@czarny_samael666: No I don't have a pic, but it's a pretty standard technique for Diana. If you have GR going for the Penance Stare right off the bat I see no reason why Diana using this to end the fight is even being questioned. Bundled with Raven and Grundy at his "I'm a physical match for PC Superman levels" I don't see team two losing.

@czarny_samael666: No I don't have a pic, but it's a pretty standard technique for Diana. If you have GR going for the Penance Stare right off the bat I see no reason why Diana using this to end the fight is even being questioned. Bundled with Raven and Grundy at his "I'm a physical match for PC Superman levels" I don't see team two losing.

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@czarny_samael666: No I don't have a pic, but it's a pretty standard technique for Diana. If you have GR going for the Penance Stare right off the bat I see no reason why Diana using this to end the fight is even being questioned. Bundled with Raven and Grundy at his "I'm a physical match for PC Superman levels" I don't see team two losing.

1.I don't see Grundy as a factor at all. 2.Raven should be occupied by Hellstorm (90%) or Dracula (10%). 3.Ghost Rider always use Hellfire/PS, while Diana don't use this specific tactic against multiple different powerfull magic beings at the same moment. Can You tell me their names? Maybe I will be able to find them in google.

1. If you don't see a physically and magaically damage reisistant beast with strength rivaling PC Superman a problem that's on you.

2. Leaving the other for Grundy.

3. You're truly arguing the probability of Diana using the lasso? She's used it to contain Ares, Cheetah, Circe, etc. While no she doesn't have to use it on all three at once using it on one is enough to seal the deal for one of them.

Any case in which she doesn't use it against a magic user is PIC/CIS which along with speed blitzing and BFR has been removed from this battle. .

Ghost rider solo

@czarny_samael666 said:

Not the same GR, which highly matters here

That shouldnt make a huge difference since all Ghost Rider has the same powerset.

since she was hurt only because she tried to use Sin's hammer, which caused high level of fear to her. So it was rather an effect of magic eneries than, simple physical attack.

Thats exactly what i am saying, as a weapon forged by Gods Diana's bracelet should be considered as a holy weapons, pretty much like Thor's hammer. And it has been quite established that godly/ ungodly weapons actually always harm GR. I remember the instance when he was KOed by Hellverine, or the fact that in one of the recent GR issue she was KOed by a simple arrow when hawkeye attached a christ's cross in it.

@Killemall said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Not the same GR, which highly matters here

That shouldnt make a huge difference since all Ghost Rider has the same powerset.

since she was hurt only because she tried to use Sin's hammer, which caused high level of fear to her. So it was rather an effect of magic eneries than, simple physical attack.

Thats exactly what i am saying, as a weapon forged by Gods Diana's bracelet should be considered as a holy weapons, pretty much like Thor's hammer. And it has been quite established that godly/ ungodly weapons actually always harm GR. I remember the instance when he was KOed by Hellverine, or the fact that in one of the recent GR issue she was KOed by a simple arrow when hawkeye attached a christ's cross in it.

Dianas' lasso is her ultimate weapon and we've seen the effects it has on demons and magic all the time.

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@czarny_samael666: No I don't have a pic, but it's a pretty standard technique for Diana. If you have GR going for the Penance Stare right off the bat I see no reason why Diana using this to end the fight is even being questioned. Bundled with Raven and Grundy at his "I'm a physical match for PC Superman levels" I don't see team two losing.

1.I don't see Grundy as a factor at all. 2.Raven should be occupied by Hellstorm (90%) or Dracula (10%). 3.Ghost Rider always use Hellfire/PS, while Diana don't use this specific tactic against multiple different powerfull magic beings at the same moment. Can You tell me their names? Maybe I will be able to find them in google.

1. If you don't see a physically and magaically damage reisistant beast with strength rivaling PC Superman a problem that's on you.

2. Leaving the other for Grundy.

3. You're truly arguing the probability of Diana using the lasso? She's used it to contain Ares, Cheetah, Circe, etc. While no she doesn't have to use it on all three at once using it on one is enough to seal the deal for one of them.

Any case in which she doesn't use it against a magic user is PIC/CIS which along with speed blitzing and BFR has been removed from this battle. .

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.Since we're talking about that fight - Rider stomped Strange. And even if You destroy his body, he will regenerate in seconds. 2.WW's magic isn't offensive one. Even if she will use her lasso, he still can "look at them". GR isn't weak to magic, like Supergirl. Its presence isn't hurting him. Magic is just only thing that works on him, which is a huge difference. Her strength doesn't matter.

He did stomp Strange. AFTER Strange knocks him out.

@Evil Incarnate said:

For one the lasso both can and has been used as an offensive weapon, but in it's more commonly used manner it's enough to incapacitate both GR and Dracula...

How will it stop Dracula?

@Killemall:

Well GR cannot be KOed has never been KOed without holy/unholy weapons. Strange/ WWHulk/ normal Hulk all have tried and failed. They manage to hurt him, destroy his body but he regenerates in less than a pannel.

Strange clearly knocked him out. Rider was down, not moving and his flame was out. Of course he regenerated but a KO is a win here. WW's Bracelets, having been formed from Zeus' shield could very well be a holy/divine weapon. Obviously though Ghost Rider is a huge obstacle here. By the time team 2 figures out a weakness it might be too late.

@Pokeysteve: The lasso has been shown to cancel/negate magic. She's also used it on Decay to fill her with life energy. As Decay is dead doing so destroyed her.

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@czarny_samael666: No I don't have a pic, but it's a pretty standard technique for Diana. If you have GR going for the Penance Stare right off the bat I see no reason why Diana using this to end the fight is even being questioned. Bundled with Raven and Grundy at his "I'm a physical match for PC Superman levels" I don't see team two losing.

1.I don't see Grundy as a factor at all. 2.Raven should be occupied by Hellstorm (90%) or Dracula (10%). 3.Ghost Rider always use Hellfire/PS, while Diana don't use this specific tactic against multiple different powerfull magic beings at the same moment. Can You tell me their names? Maybe I will be able to find them in google.

1. If you don't see a physically and magaically damage reisistant beast with strength rivaling PC Superman a problem that's on you.

2. Leaving the other for Grundy.

3. You're truly arguing the probability of Diana using the lasso? She's used it to contain Ares, Cheetah, Circe, etc. While no she doesn't have to use it on all three at once using it on one is enough to seal the deal for one of them.

Any case in which she doesn't use it against a magic user is PIC/CIS which along with speed blitzing and BFR has been removed from this battle. .

1.No need for making this personal. Grundy, as Hulk, Juggernaut and other brutes, can take any of people from team 1.You can't just break them. That is why - no matter how strong - he is useless here. 2.As above. 3.I am not saying that she wouldn't use it at all, but that she wouldn't use it on all three at once. Which means that she rather will use it on Dracula, since she doesn't know them. Why on Dracula? Because I am more than sure that he will use shape shifting faster than any other of his enemies. And I am more than sure that Diana's lasso can imprison him. But in the same moment she will be pretty vulnerable to Rider's attacks. As well as she would to Hellstorm's, but I also belive that Raven vs. Hellstorm will be pretty even fight. Ghost Rider's shots can KO any not-fully innocent being. And Hellfire can hurt any being with soul. Even if Wonder Woman somehow will start battle with lasso - while I belive that she will start it with punching - and somehow choose Rider - not more than 33% chances - she will be affected by Hellstorm's magic (since Dracula would rather attack Raven).

1. Who's making it personal? They can be knocked out. The OP just gave everyone the option of killing one another. If a KO is considered "anything equivalent" by the OP. He's not useless at all.

2. Apparently we need to part about "anything equivalent" defined before we know whether or not Grundy is useless or if this entire match for that matter is spite.

3. Diana has resisted hellfire. She's taken blasts from Nekron. Why would you assume Dracula would rather attack Raven? Anyway I'll have to wait and see if a KO is considered a win before I continue making arguments.

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.No need for making this personal. Grundy, as Hulk, Juggernaut and other brutes, can take any of people from team 1.You can't just break them. That is why - no matter how strong - he is useless here. 2.As above. 3.I am not saying that she wouldn't use it at all, but that she wouldn't use it on all three at once. Which means that she rather will use it on Dracula, since she doesn't know them. Why on Dracula? Because I am more than sure that he will use shape shifting faster than any other of his enemies. And I am more than sure that Diana's lasso can imprison him. But in the same moment she will be pretty vulnerable to Rider's attacks. As well as she would to Hellstorm's, but I also belive that Raven vs. Hellstorm will be pretty even fight. Ghost Rider's shots can KO any not-fully innocent being. And Hellfire can hurt any being with soul. Even if Wonder Woman somehow will start battle with lasso - while I belive that she will start it with punching - and somehow choose Rider - not more than 33% chances - she will be affected by Hellstorm's magic (since Dracula would rather attack Raven).

1. Who's making it personal? They can be knocked out. The OP just gave everyone the option of killing one another. If a KO is considered "anything equivalent" by the OP. He's not useless at all.

2. Apparently we need to part about "anything equivalent" defined before we know whether or not Grundy is useless or if this entire match for that matter is spite.

3. Diana has resisted hellfire. She's taken blasts from Nekron. Why would you assume Dracula would rather attack Raven? Anyway I'll have to wait and see if a KO is considered a win before I continue making arguments.

K.Os count as defeat

Not sure the teams are balanced for this since one is a spirit of vengeance, one is the lord of vampires and the last is a helllord, opposing them is two demi-goddess' and a zombie. And pushing them all to the max inevitably leaves one team with two near-omnipotent beings.

Besides, I've just heard that Hellstorm got some power up in mini "Vengeance". Is that true? Is he really a Hell-Lord level  now?

@czarny_samael666 said:

Besides, I've just heard that Hellstorm got some power up in mini "Vengeance". Is that true? Is he really a Hell-Lord level now?

When the hell did this happen.

@Evil Incarnate said:

@Pokeysteve: The lasso has been shown to cancel/negate magic. She's also used it on Decay to fill her with life energy. As Decay is dead doing so destroyed her.

I think I remember the Decay incident. I never put it together with negating magic though. Does she actually say that in an issue or do you just pay attention more than I do?

@Pokeysteve said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@Pokeysteve: The lasso has been shown to cancel/negate magic. She's also used it on Decay to fill her with life energy. As Decay is dead doing so destroyed her.

I think I remember the Decay incident. I never put it together with negating magic though. Does she actually say that in an issue or do you just pay attention more than I do?

In the Decay fight she used the magical life essence of the earth channeled through the lasso. I does mention it in the actual book.

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.No need for making this personal. Grundy, as Hulk, Juggernaut and other brutes, can take any of people from team 1.You can't just break them. That is why - no matter how strong - he is useless here. 2.As above. 3.I am not saying that she wouldn't use it at all, but that she wouldn't use it on all three at once. Which means that she rather will use it on Dracula, since she doesn't know them. Why on Dracula? Because I am more than sure that he will use shape shifting faster than any other of his enemies. And I am more than sure that Diana's lasso can imprison him. But in the same moment she will be pretty vulnerable to Rider's attacks. As well as she would to Hellstorm's, but I also belive that Raven vs. Hellstorm will be pretty even fight. Ghost Rider's shots can KO any not-fully innocent being. And Hellfire can hurt any being with soul. Even if Wonder Woman somehow will start battle with lasso - while I belive that she will start it with punching - and somehow choose Rider - not more than 33% chances - she will be affected by Hellstorm's magic (since Dracula would rather attack Raven).

1. Who's making it personal? They can be knocked out. The OP just gave everyone the option of killing one another. If a KO is considered "anything equivalent" by the OP. He's not useless at all.

2. Apparently we need to part about "anything equivalent" defined before we know whether or not Grundy is useless or if this entire match for that matter is spite.

3. Diana has resisted hellfire. She's taken blasts from Nekron. Why would you assume Dracula would rather attack Raven? Anyway I'll have to wait and see if a KO is considered a win before I continue making arguments.

1.Seriously, I know only a part of Rider's and Strange fight, so I would like to see when and how Rider was KOd. Grundy won't be able to KO GR, Hellstorm nor Dracula, even if GR can be KOd by magic. Wonder Woman has clear magic weapons that can affect other people with its power. Just because Grundy has magic orgin, it doesn't mean that his punches are magic and Rider isn't Supergirl who is weakned just by magic presence.3.Even if KO is considered a win, only Wonder Woman has some chances to KO two of them (at best). Hellfire can be useless against her, but why PS would be? Raven looks much more similar to Dracula himself, than any other enemy. Besides, can't Dracula (the same with Hellstorm) just posses Grundy?

1. Why wouldn't they be KO'd?

2. Don't count Grundy out besides being PC Superman strong he's also been able to asorb magic and other foms of energy.

3.I never said the PS wouldn't work, but that seems to be GR only means of beating her and correct me if I'm wrong, but it only works on people based on immoral or illegal activity. I know Diana kills, but that doesn't go against her morals. Other than that she's a hero so it's not as if she's regularly doing the immoral/illegal deeds..

@czarny_samael666 said:

Besides, I've just heard that Hellstorm got some power up in mini "Vengeance". Is that true? Is he really a Hell-Lord level now?

When the hell did this happen.

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.Seriously, I know only a part of Rider's and Strange fight, so I would like to see when and how Rider was KOd. Grundy won't be able to KO GR, Hellstorm nor Dracula, even if GR can be KOd by magic. Wonder Woman has clear magic weapons that can affect other people with its power. Just because Grundy has magic orgin, it doesn't mean that his punches are magic and Rider isn't Supergirl who is weakned just by magic presence.3.Even if KO is considered a win, only Wonder Woman has some chances to KO two of them (at best). Hellfire can be useless against her, but why PS would be? Raven looks much more similar to Dracula himself, than any other enemy. Besides, can't Dracula (the same with Hellstorm) just posses Grundy?

1. Why wouldn't they be KO'd?

2. Don't count Grundy out besides being PC Superman strong he's also been able to asorb magic and other foms of energy.

3.I never said the PS wouldn't work, but that seems to be GR only means of beating her and correct me if I'm wrong, but it only works on people based on immoral or illegal activity. I know Diana kills, but that doesn't go against her morals. Other than that she's a hero so it's not as if she's regularly doing the immoral/illegal deeds..

bump

@cgoodness said:

this

Team Marvel. Ghost Rider Solo

Team Marvel should win due mostly to GR