Alrighty, now that the draft is out of the way, we can begin our glorious tournament. I picked names out of a hat(Quite literally) and that's who fights against who. Who ever can convince the voters to vote for them, that's who wins. Please, if your going to vote, make sure you don't change your mind like 20 times on this post. Also, you may or may not vote for your team. That's up to you.
Each team has had two years of working together and became the best hero/villain team in your universe. So now you know all teams will work well together.
Each team will get 25 minutes to prep, warm up, and analyze their situation. Each team will have full Intel of their enemy. Battle will take place in New York City, around 2 am at night. Each team starts off on a twenty story building, facing off one another. About ten feet apart. It's up to either team to make the first move. Battle is to Ko or death. Morals are off. No holding back on either side.
If you don't debate for your team, you are automatically dq'd from this tournament. You'll get time to do this, I'm not going to just rush this battles. But there'll be no excuse to not even try to argue for your team at least. Don't forget that most characters are limited to Hercules level of strength and wonder woman's level of speed. Amazo is only allowed to have up to five powers and his weaknesses.
I'm putting my intro together right now in another tab on my browser, my feats are just a disorganized mess so this is taking a little while. Just tryin to stay calm through the formatting process. How to get everything tumbnail size is eluding me at the moment.
I'm putting my intro together right now in another tab on my broser, my feats are just a disorganized mess so this is taking a little while.
I'm having similar problems. So I made a post with out scans for now, and if he tries to counter my plan, I'll use my scans to prove him wrong. lol Also, make sure you watch everyones battles, then you'll know their strategies. And you're also a voter.
@laughingstock You could of went, I was asleep short ly after, so in the interest of not delaying I'll just start,
Given the conditions of this battle I believe personally within the 25 minutes of prep time strategy would be talked over more so then that of say trying to retrieve any sort of equipment specific for the fight. Even with knowledge of wether or not Krypot is vulnerable to Kryptonite (which I don't believe he is) I don't think it would be a concern.
The actual battle likely starts with Raven scouting with her soul self too see what the enemy is doing. Ideally it would be best if Raven were to be able to get back to her body Asap, though if needed, she could engage an aggressive opponent by trapping them within her soul self, as demonstrated below.
(bear with me this is the best I can do for formatting for now, sorry those with slow processors)
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Seen here neutralizing an opponent, possibly at cost of removing self from battle temporarily.
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Now that is not to say this is impossible to counter, As I believe those of a strong mind and will, or those naturally physically tenacious enough, the most well known instance of mine I believe being Black Adam can break free from this. Though looking over who could indeed get trapped, I feel as if Braniac and Starfire are those with best chance of getting out if they act too aggressively and get caught.
Either way I'll lead into what the rest of my team should be doing at the time.Both Kilowog and Alan Scott would act as active dps early on in the battle while Raven is playing the mage/rouge role. Their constructs should be able to hit nicely from a distance and keep perhaps some more delicate members of the team safe, flanking from either side yet at the same time watching for the team safely. Although Kilowog style is generally to use his constructs to get closer to an opponent, I do believe in the interest of winning this battle he could make more fuller use of the rings power for said purposes.
Demonstration of strength of Kilowogs Constructs, as well as defending his willingness to use in creative ways. First image being of him using them to lift an aircraft carrier, weighing at least over 50,000 tons easily. The following after that being Kilowog pulling a ship away from the gravitational pull of a black hole.
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Just a small demonstration of Alan Scotts capabilities as a ranged opponent, without full star heart access, which I was told vigorously I would not have during the draft(essentially no giant planet busting looking energy beams or anything like that). It may make people want to strangle me for under using him but I seriously just wanted him for the sake of throwing giant boxing gloves around.
Below this paragraph of how strong his constructs can go as well as well as some ranged capabilities. The first being him fighting a Giant insect, while at the same time holding back his own teammates, Hal Jordan and Barry Allen (as well as the golden age flash I believe) from entering the fight, which may I add are actively trying to break free. The following images include the long ranged boxing glove I wanted so badly, an example of him being able to block and defend against attacks, like possibly Starfires energy blasts, or MODOKS missiles/lasers. and then another demonstrating the creativity of his constructs as well as his ability to restrain another opponent in battle.
The first feat I feel however shows something else about him, his not so superhuman ability to multitask. Alan Scott should very well be able to switch roles depending on what the situation calls for, possibley demonstrating anything within the nature of the following feats happening at the same time.
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Moving on we have Graviton, who I would essentially like to refer to as a debuffer (notice all the mmo speak yet?). He himself is another capable of creating defensive force fields, but with his manipulation of the force of gravity, can throw a real curve ball at those with the power of flight. The thumbnail following that should show an example of the sheer ferocity of his powers, as he pins the entire thunderbirds team to a wall, and just for lols I'll also point out his flattening of Reed Richards essentially.
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I would also like to possibly bring up a lesser known ability of his, to imbue the power of flight to those whom don,t have it, for reasons that will be made clear shortly. (may need to divide into 2 posts, but almost done, gimmie a sec.
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If he can give the power of flight, to be independently controlled by random minions, then I'm sure with two years of working together Hercules can be a psuedo superman, minus the freeze breath and heat beams of course. He can be a mobile tank to dish out raw physical damage to other opponents. Below shows him capable of beating down tenacious opponents such as Thor and the Hulk, there is also evidence that he can take a hit, getting right back up after taking a strike to the cranium from thors helmet, and as an added bonus an anti speed blitz feat against Sentry.
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Last but not least I present the team healer, Saint Walker. His job is to keep the morale of the team high, and in good health. Saint walker has shown himself, with green lanterns present capable of healing and regenerating severed limbs. Though in times of need he can play an offensive role as well. Below is a sight of Mr. Walker holding off a tenacious powerhouses, some demonstration of his actual offensive capability, and showing his ability as a leader holding off orange lantern constructs, albeit without help of a nearby green lantern at the moment. If he gets charged he should be at least able to delay an attack long enough for another member of the team to come to his aide.
Saint walker 's constructs are powered by hope. So with enough "hope" felt by those nearby, he has shown the capability to reduce the age of a dying sun. Granted he wont have the combined hope of all the people on his own planet powering him, but Ravens empathic abilities working in tandem to also help keep morales high should be a good way of keeping his power up.
@kotetsu454: Well due to the 25 minutes of prep MODOK, Brainiac, and Lex would probably work overdrive. Krypto would probably try to find a safe place for them to work which would take about 2 minutes, then they would go in there and start. MODOK sends clones out to protect the place along with John, Starfire, and Krypto. So withing the 25 minutes of prep they could probably make some kind of power suits. I'm guessing they would be a lot like Lex's. In case the work takes over 15 minutes then they could try to defend the lab while they finish up. After they put their armor on they could go out and do more damage than before. Using the clones of MODOK as their first line offence, then they can handle it. Starfire, MODOK, and Krypto would be in the sky watching over as their 'airforce' while John, Lex, and Brainiac lead the squad of clones. With the airforce buzzing around and doing quick taps they will be a distraction, while the ground team advances. With their Low level iron man suits (that's what I could see them using) they should be able to fire off beams of lasers on your team from above and on ground. While the lantern constructs could be a problem, my team can move pretty fast, not Flash or Quicksilver fast but still fast. So it may be hard to get hits off on them, Lex is kinda slow though. So as they advance they may try to spread out and attack your team at all ends in a circular direction, all 6 of them with 2 clones backing them up. Until they close in and open their attack.
@laughingstock I would like to call into question the logistics of you teams prep plan. And this scares me a bit because I was a C student at math in high school, but am gonna try and work this out. Out of the 25 minutes, you have alloted 2 for Krypto to find a safe place within new york city to work, from that point once they find it, M.O.D.O.K, Lex Luthor, and Braniac then have to transport themselves to this location that Krypto found. You seem to have allotted 8 minutes for this as you said
In case the work takes over 15 minutes then they could try to defend the lab while they finish up.
So otherwise this amount of prep time is unaccounted for, unless you say that they have roughly 20-22 minutes presuming they can get there relatively quickly. The the challenge is actually building these power suits that you speak of. I am assuming Lexi would already have his modern era powersuit ready to go, and MODOKs general way of moving anywhere is already a power suit in itself. My whole problem with this is how long it will really take to build these suits even with Brainiacs Technopathic abilities. I would request feats for how fast he is physically capable of building such things unaided if they don't necessarily have the proper tools and equipment. Aside from speed, I also would consider their resources and what they actually can build. Unless Krypto is going and finding these raw materials anywhere I find it hard to believe that such battle suits resembling Luthors, made as a mixture of Human, Apokoliptian and Kryptonian technology are feasible. If you divide it up 4 suits are being made. At max 23 min divided by 4 means each suit needs to be made in less then 7 minutes, constructed by 3 to 4 people at any given time. ((one for Braniac, Krypto, John Constantine, and Starfire)) plus possible upgrades to Luthors current suit and MODOKs power chair, should that be something they choose to do as well.
Given the scenario of the fight I would also like to question the use of MODOKs clones and how many he would really be able to have. Does Krypto locate a base where MODOK just has them stashed away, or is it within the rules that he just happened to bring them with him for the meeting on top of the twenty story buildings the team starts at.
To add on, in the advance stages of the fight, if you are able to get ground troops, I would find them completely irrelevant to the fight as all members of my team, given the circumstances have the power of flight independently, including Hercules given the feat of Graviton able to grant flight to people. So whatever comes in the form of ground forces I don't feel will be able to do much unless they have accurate long range capability.
So I would like to argue that my team would be able to rush the 2-3 other team-mates on your team and pick them off while the building of suits still takes place, and that the clones are not necessarily allowed. Krypto is indeed fast, faster then superman though as you put it not nessesarily as fast as someone like flash. Wonder Woman was set as the speed limit, who as far as I know is said to be a bit slower then the flash, which if you ask me adds up.
Though Krypto might be hard to tag I don't quite see his efforts combined with starfires being able to stop a full advance one Raven reports back from gathering intel. Given as Morals are off and Graviton is capable of Lifting an entire city from the earth, leveling a building or several individual buildings should be a piece of case. Thus he can severely disrupt whatever power-suit work is going on causing their work space to crumble upon the feverishly working super genius level characters, doing some level of damage to them, at least to Luthor and MODOK, even if they are only just doing the finishing touches as they are found.
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With Graviton focused on this, this leaves I feel a numbers advantage is gained as Alan Scots constructs will put the team on the defensive, and combined with Kilowogs constructs working for him to move in close, will be able to beat down. The majority of the team (4 of them) can handle or be protected from incoming energy blasts coming from starfire and (does Krypto have heat vision?) through a variety of means, the three lanterns, through whatever construct they choose to make use of and Graviton through his Gravitational energy fields, as demonstrated by a higher up posted feat of him blocking a blast from Ironman, and one below of him deflecting Thors hammer being thrown at him, and even sending it back in an offensivestrike back, which further makes me question the effectiveness of MODOK missiles against him if these two are to engage.
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All the while you still likely have Saint Walker in reserve to heal, as well as Raven to possibly take some of the burden off of it by working to only alleviate and take on part of her team-mates injuries, thus not forcing him to have to work as hard. I have also yet to explored the possibility of Kilowogs ring receiving a double power charge, further increasing already immense strength of what his constructs can do. He could even very well do what job I assigned to Graviton as judged by his base power in his feat lifting the aircraft carrier depicted. ((am unsure if Alan Scotts ring can be powered up in terms of logic within the comic books or by legality within the tournament rules))
As a further restatement of an already mentioned feat, I'll point to the feat in my first post of Hercules grabbing Sentry by the cape out of the air and maintain that Krypto could be caught as well by his cape, Starfire by her long flowing hair if she goes for hand to hand, so on and so forth.
@kotetsu454: Well about the suits, I can't confirm exactly what they could build, they have like 40 minutes, if they can defend the base. So they may try to make weapons or even try to create some sort of nuke for all we know. And on movement, Lex could use his suit to fly over, Modok has his hover chair, and Brainiac could hop on Krypto's back. Then when they arrive the clones, (I'm guessing he would bring a couple with him.) would also help guard, or help in the lab if needed. So once they make a bomb they could level out the entire city and possibly both teams, depending on the blast. This isn't just a few random scientists standing around either, it has been shown before that Kryptonite has some radiation leaked into it that can be harmful to humans as well in large doses. So if Lex is in his suit, he could empty all his kryptonite from the suit and into their bomb. Then Modok's clones fly up while my team escapes and they set it off.
Now there are a lot of different scenarios here but I think the lab team could build a bomb in the time limit given and defended.
@laughingstock This still leads me to question the amount of time they have to build anything. I'll give you that, the 35-45 minute range for them to build something or other. If they go the route with the suits for 4 people that leaves 10 min a suit, to construct those at 10 min a piece even with their intellect still seems no easy feat, even if they have a few clones helping out somehow. As far as I knew his clones mainly served the purpose of being an organ farm for him, as he is in constant need of transplants, and were kept in a sleeping state until needed. The brains harvested to power some super computer base which is off somewhere, I don't know exactly where.
Now if they are to go the bomb route, I still see an issue in raw materials available to them. They have the kryptonite loaded into Lex Luthors suite but I am not certain what else they would have immidiatatly available as standard equipment or otherwise. Exploring one possible route I am not sure if all the explosives from MODOKs missiles, plus the missiles of however many clones he brings with him can exactly create a nuke level blast. IF these are used then you theoretically take a weapon away from him an the clones in hope for one big blast that needs prep time, and while building defend if what they set up as home base comes under attack.
Krypto, Starfire, and the clones are likely to be hard pressed to find what is needed lying somewhere around New York City. If this material search goes beyond the prep time, then that will then leave them preoccupied with yet another task of assisting the team find what they need while fighting. Infact the clones would be the ones likely to be the only ones to know/understand what is needed. As Krypto is... well a dog with mild amounts of intelligence who can take direction fairly well, but I don't think can understand such advanced scientific concepts. The same goes for Starfire as though she is not stupid by any standards, I don't think she could scavenge much within the allotted time either without guidance from another clone.
All the while I still give my team an edge as most have ranged capabilities to attack certain points, such as the very building itself where they are working in, as I have demonstrated at least two of my team members are more than proper potential building busters, and are capable of doing it at range, Hercules up close more then likely as well. Although he has lifted literally the weight of the world on his shoulders, and I could easily get that feat as well, I think it would be more fun to show him flipping Godzilla on his but as a demonstration.
Well finding a 'body' for the bomb wouldn't be a problem, they could probably use Lex's suit to store everything in, then just fire off it's jets and send it flying. On explosion terms though, like you mentioned MODOK could put his missles in the suit, and with the given prep time the defence team could search, considering Krypto has the intellect of a human he may be able to find more explosive items as well, he could sniff out the gunpowder if needed to.
And it seems like we haven't thought much on John here, didn't Hercules lose his family? John could try to con him out, and tell him he could give him his family back. Therefore making him hold out on attack, if that doesn't work he could try mind control him. Or better yet, go invisible, leave Starfire, Krypto, and the clones to defend while he searches. If anyone spotted him while searching he could create an illusion of soldiers attacking so he could escape, or make his own luck and it just happens that a skyscraper falls down behind him allowing for him to get away. But doing defense on the lab itself he could still be deadly, having his spells with him.
Now sacrificing a suit is an option I do not think of, and applaud you for that. That creativity would have to come from someone other then MODOK (Braniac or Luthor) as I believe they make it a point to say that he has "Intelligence but not a lot of creativity." To use it as a mobile weapon I would have to call into question. Generally battle suits in comics are stable in flight because they have a man on board directing it and maintaining balance, compensate for possible lack of aerodynamics, so on and so forth. So either Someone sacrifices themselves, you argue that they would that they would have some remote device to direct it to an ideal location, or just say that it is a stationary explosive, but then at that point, you would need to argue in some way if they could set it on a timer or have some way to move it to where it's needed and/or detonate it from a distance, if not, I think at least one of your men will be taken out by your own bomb in the process.
Countering the arguement about John, for the sake of anyone neutralizing Hercules, I kinda thought it would go more like this, but with Starfire in place of She Hulk.
Personally though I acknowledge John as a conman I am not sure he would be able to get enough words in to save his tail from an attack. And with both teams having knowledge, well that goes both ways. Herc would likley have knowledge of John Constantine as a conman and question his motives and even his abilities to do so. And having worked together for such time, 2 years in the scenario, I don't think he would sell out his team so quickly.
Getting back to the subject of the bomb though, I would also like to point out that my team does have the capabilities to survive high impact blasts, or at least have the mobility to get away from it. My three lanterns, can all use constructs to shield themselves, Raven theoretically can protect via telepathic abilities, will try to find feats upon request, Herc can be protected by any one lantern, though I could possibly argue that he could survive whatever blast they are cooking up to some degree, and then Graviton, who may have the most impressive defense of all, shown in the below scans of him deflecting fighter pilot missiles, while lifting and re-locating a 4 square mile landmass at cloud level. Which as a side note makes me think he could solo multiple Modok clones (not the whole team, just the MODOKs and however many clones of them there are.))
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Now through the discussion of the fighter pilots in the scans, they state that "it would take a nuke to pierce that thing." It could be heresay and assumptions, but it also makes you wonder what Gravitons Force-field as one layer of defense combined with at least one other Green (or Blue) Lantern construct as another layer, that is being buffed by Blue/Green being together, and Raven using her emphatic abilities to keep hope/willpower strong. And not having to spread out and protect a whole city, just up to six other heroes/villains. Looking at the figures below though I still don't think that a blast will go anywhere near nuclear.
A nuclear weapon is an explosive device that derives its destructive force from nuclear reactions, either fission or a combination of fission and fusion. Both reactions release vast quantities of energy from relatively small amounts of matter. The first fission ("atomic") bomb test released the same amount of energy as approximately 20,000 tons of TNT. The first thermonuclear ("hydrogen") bomb test released the same amount of energy as approximately 10,000,000 tons of TNT.[1]
A thermonuclear weapon weighing little more than 2,400 pounds (1,100 kg) can produce an explosive force comparable to the detonation of more than 1.2 million tons (1.1 million tonnes) of TNT.[2] Thus, even a small nuclear device no larger than traditional bombs can devastate an entire city by blast, fire, and radiation.
Ending this rebutle here, I also ask the question, how long does our back and forth go for before voting starts, do we just agree at a certain point that we are both done debating? Or is there a time limit or something?
Well on the Hercules argument, I meant if John could talk him down, maybe fool Hercules into helping him move explosive parts, or turn a blind eye.
Onto the bomb argument, it depends on what they put in the suit, if they put enough power in it to wipe out multiple cities then it works well, but even a city crusher could still do a number on most of your team. And what would probably go down is that a couple of MODOK clones move the bomb and set it off, while Lex hitches a ride on MODOK's hover chair or on Krypto's back (oh how I envy you Luthor). Now to stop your lantern sheilds, I'm assuming the rest of the clones could launch attacks to distract them while they are unaware if the bomb about to go off. With an exception of Raven's soul. But back to the point, if your lanterns are distracted by the clones, it may be too late for them to throw up shields, in fact the fastest members if my team at the allowed max speed could buzz around, then while the bomb ticks down to its last seconds they buzz off.
Now on the nuclear point, Lex's suit has krypton it's in it, lots of it, and since he is a billionaire he probably has a company in the city, he could get loads of radioactive materials shipped, but it will probably cut close to the end of the time limit, unless one of the members of my team picks it up. If the radioactive material is not avalible they have the kryptonite that could hold small amounts of radiation in them, the con in that is Krypto.
Along with getting stuff shipped, I'm pretty sure if that Luthor demands it right away they will get there without wasting a second. So if this is the case and they deliver as fast as they can, Luthor may be able to get some equipment too, maybe a jet or a few grenades.
If you have men working for Lex moving materials then that turns this fight into an escort mission for your team. With knowledge of their intellect, my team will know something is up when some members of your team are missing from the battlefield, and semi-trucks bearing Luthors company name on the side may very well stick out like a sore thumb, and Ravens scouting as her soul self might rely this information to my team pretty quickly. Safe transport of explosives I would imagine is a task within itself, even for superhumans, not for the sake of their own safety, but for getting it where it needs to be and in usable condition. With the feat I posted describing Graviton using his shield to fend off fighter jets, I can honestly liken each of those to a MODOK clone. ((pressuming the jets also had laser beams mounted somewhere and were slower moving)) But not only can he also defend against them, but fight back as well.
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Now imagine debris, parts of buildings, car's etc in place of the boulders, or one of the MODOKs Missiles, or even one MODOK clone being thrown into another MODOK clone, a possible 2 for 1 special. (how many he would have exactly I am not sure has been made clear) They wont last long I don't think.
As another thought about Constantine there is also not much guarantee that he will even encounter Hercules. As far as I know, it would seem as if he would need to be protected during the fight, which could serve as a distraction as well. I just don't know how powerful his magic is when forced to fight, which he prefers not to do I believe.
To try and pull a summary togerther here.
Lex, Braniac and the origional MODOK are busy bomb building, Lex sacrificing his suit to do so.
Graviton handles MODOK clones more or less solo.
Five members left on team to fight:
Starfire who is defending.
Krypto is also defending/using guerrilla/hit and run tactics.
Constantine who has a 1 in 5 chance of encountering the emotionally vulnerable member of my team, and possibly has to be protected at that.
Stray transports which also need defending.
With this team likely cleared out kinda quickly, sheerly by being over whelmed by numbers, the team can move next to disrupt the geniuses at work. Or even if not cleared out quickly, damage can be done to the work space, Graviton and Kilowog can building bust rather efficiently.
@kotetsu454: Yeah I'm done, but on a note, I'm guessing the lab would be an underground parking garage or a basement of a building. But I'm ready for votes.
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