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#1 Edited by alternative_backup (630 posts) - - Show Bio

Genis-Vell (Insane Genis-Vell):

vs.

Thanos (with the Infinity Guantlet):

Rules:

- Battle to the death. Win by any means

Both characters are at full power

Who win this battle?

#2 Posted by alternative_backup (630 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump!

#3 Posted by eternityx (2778 posts) - - Show Bio

Yep, Thanos got this.

#4 Edited by comic_book_fan (5654 posts) - - Show Bio

thanos

#5 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

IGV. He destroyed and recreated multiverse. Thanos was universal or over-universal, but nothing on that level.

#6 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

thanos

#7 Posted by BladeNB (187 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos without a doubt

#8 Posted by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos would win even if he didnt have the IG on him.

#9 Posted by dondave (37646 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos

#10 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos would win even if he didnt have the IG on him.

How is that? IGV is multiversal.

#11 Posted by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Edited by Life_Without_Progress (2012 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

How is that? IGV is multiversal.

No he isnt, not even close.

He destroyed and reformed multiverse. He made "the bing bang" again.

#14 Posted by Iragexcudder (4924 posts) - - Show Bio

Jesus.

#15 Posted by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio


He destroyed and reformed multiverse. He made "the bing bang" again.

He did neither on his power.

Firstly we dont see how they killed Eternity, but we know 2 things:

1. Genis Vell was allied with Entrophy, another genuine abstract, and Eternity actually wanted to die and it was Entrophy who replaced Eternity not Genis, which clearly shows Entrophy did most of the work. Remember Infinity Gauntlet, if you wrestle and defeat Eternity you take his rightful position as the central of reality (or all relaties based on what state the story is being written) like Thanos did.

Nothing there suggests Genis actually is anywhere close to Eternity, which brings us to his future encounter where he had a short tait-a-tait with King Thor where they looked even, he actually lost against his own sister (Phyla), he struggled with the Galactic Council, he clearly seem worried about Titan's technology and was worried about Thanos involvement, none of these would make sense if Genis was anywhere close to multiverse and its the part of the same story arc written by the same writer.

2. He did not cause the big bang either, at least that wasnt his entire power. After replacing Eternity, Entrophy didnt know what to do, and he eventually wanted to become Eternity but he needed a minor discharge of power in order to achieve that, which is what Genis provided.

#16 Edited by The_Titan_Lord (5655 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos

#17 Edited by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos bullies him worse than he did this lil' boy:

#18 Posted by those_eyes (6841 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos bullies him worse than he did to this lil' boy:

#19 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

It doesn't matter if Eternity wanted to die or not. Thanos also wants to die, but he doesn't have power to do this.

Point is, that Gennis had that power. As much as when he shoot Eternity's son. It doesn't matter what they were and what they wanted - Genis' attack reformed the multiverse and he was able to survive both explosions as well.

I wouldn't use his other showings as a prove, a specially one with his sister, since he was... insane and this was his weak point. He often didn't really know what to do.

BTW, he never lost that kind of power, that is why in New Thunderbolts they wanted to deal with his sleeping body - he still wa a threat to whole universe.

#20 Posted by green_skaar (4415 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos bullies him worse than he did this lil' boy:

Haha, saving that one!

#21 Posted by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

It doesn't matter if Eternity wanted to die or not. Thanos also wants to die, but he doesn't have power to do this.

There is a huge difference between Eternity and Thanos, one is a relatively omnipotent being who could do pretty much anything he wants to do, as opposed to Thanos who was prevented from dying by an Abstract being who drawfs his power level.

And Thanos doesnt always want to die that was for one particular story arc.

Point is, that Gennis had that power.

No he didnt. He couldnt kill nor challange Eternity alone. Entrophy had that power because he was Eternity son a genuine abstract.

Entrophy just need a minor discharge of Eternity, the rest was done by Entrophy himself. Its not like Genis killed Entrophy or showed enough energy to destroy the universe or anything like that.

"Some sort of energy discharge would be appropirate i should think"

So Entry needed a small energy discharge so he could change into Eternity.

2006 Genis's bio backs it up perfectly.

Note how it clearly says "Entrophy re-created the universe"

Again Eternity bio backs it up just as well.

It wasnt his attack that reformed the multiverse, Genis attack was just an energy discharge enough for Entrophy to change into Eternity, everything was done by Entrophy not Genis, thats what said on comics and 2 differnet bio backs it up.

I wouldn't use his other showings as a prove, a specially one with his sister, since he was... insane and this was his weak point. He often didn't really know what to do.

He was always insane throughout the story arc, including this one. Not sure how that makes any difference and he clearly didnt do anything much here, most of this was done by Entrophy.

#22 Posted by dondave (37646 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: So Eternity actually died or was he somehow brought back?

#23 Edited by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Eternity was killed, Entrophy took his place as the new Eternity.

#24 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

I won't debate with hanbook confirming Your words. In this case this thread should be Entropy vs Thanos w/IG.

#25 Posted by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

I won't debate with hanbook confirming Your words. In this case this thread should be Entropy vs Thanos w/IG.

Cheers and that might be more in line, although honestly, Entropy there barely killed Eternity, seeing how Warlock handled Eternity when he had the IG, i think its far to say IG is superior, after all it was meant to be superior to every abstract.

#26 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@killemall:

I won't debate with hanbook confirming Your words. In this case this thread should be Entropy vs Thanos w/IG.

Cheers and that might be more in line, although honestly, Entropy there barely killed Eternity, seeing how Warlock handled Eternity when he had the IG, i think its far to say IG is superior, after all it was meant to be superior to every abstract.

Different Eternity. In IGV's story it was multiversal's one.

#27 Posted by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio

Different Eternity. In IGV's story it was multiversal's one.

Doesnt matter, Eternity is sometimes written as a universal abstract, something connected something more. Inconsistency within the writer does change the fact that its the same character in both issues backed by multiple bios just as well.

Its pretty hard for me to see Eternity as anything other than that, and Eternity has always has multiversal power though.

#28 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Different Eternity. In IGV's story it was multiversal's one.

Doesnt matter, Eternity is sometimes written as a universal abstract, something connected something more. Inconsistency within the writer does change the fact that its the same character in both issues backed by multiple bios just as well.

Its pretty hard for me to see Eternity as anything other than that, and Eternity has always has multiversal power though.

It is not inconsistency. When Quasar reached Abastract's realm, he understood that all Abstracts have different aspects. He even said that Eternity he found there isn't the same one he met in the past. Unless it is stated, Abstracts are in their universal versions, because it is how they are shown in majority comics.

#29 Posted by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio

It is not inconsistency. When Quasar reached Abastract's realm, he understood that all Abstracts have different aspects. He even said that Eternity he found there isn't the same one he met in the past.

Not sure i understand, the point of Quasar # 37 and his journey into the dimension of manifest was something different from what you are saying.

Qusar was told that Abstracts he meets and talks arent the realm things, they are M-bodies, physical bodies created specifically that Abstracts would communicate with the physicals.

Its not 2 different Eternities but rather 2 different M-bodies.

I dont disagree to this, but my point was different. Be it as the embodiment of universe, a nexus connected to all realities, or an outright multiverse, Eternity power has always been on a multiversal scale.

Again, one writer wrote it differnet, namely Peter Davis, but that should change little because we know its still the same Eternity character, that lost to Thanos, was redicule by Warlock (both with IG of course).

Bios says both eternities are the same.

#30 Posted by JwwProd (9526 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos would win but it would not be as easy as some people think.

#31 Edited by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod said:

Thanos would win but it would not be as easy as some people think.

It wouldnt be easy even with the Infinity Gauntlet given to Thanos?

Once Genis came back sane, and there is no mention of him ever growing weaker, Atlas stomped him.

Honestly you really think Thanos couldnt just blink him out of existence with a thought?

#32 Edited by JwwProd (9526 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall said:

@jwwprod said:

Thanos would win but it would not be as easy as some people think.

It wouldnt be easy even with the Infinity Gauntlet given to Thanos?

Once Genis came back sane, and there is no mention of him ever growing weaker, Atlas stomped him.

Honestly you really think Thanos couldnt just blink him out of existence with a thought?

Ok you've convinced me.

Though I'm pretty sure that Genis was back to his normal power level after be turned sane again, if not then it must of been PIS.

Though regardless as I said Thanos still wins.

#33 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

It is not inconsistency. When Quasar reached Abastract's realm, he understood that all Abstracts have different aspects. He even said that Eternity he found there isn't the same one he met in the past.

Not sure i understand, the point of Quasar # 37 and his journey into the dimension of manifest was something different from what you are saying.

Qusar was told that Abstracts he meets and talks arent the realm things, they are M-bodies, physical bodies created specifically that Abstracts would communicate with the physicals.

Its not 2 different Eternities but rather 2 different M-bodies.

I dont disagree to this, but my point was different. Be it as the embodiment of universe, a nexus connected to all realities, or an outright multiverse, Eternity power has always been on a multiversal scale.

Again, one writer wrote it differnet, namely Peter Davis, but that should change little because we know its still the same Eternity character, that lost to Thanos, was redicule by Warlock (both with IG of course).

Bios says both eternities are the same.

These M-Bodies had different memory and some didn't know Quasar, Multiversal one would know all. This proves that not everything they see is THE Eternity. Where is prove that Eternity that lost with his son and one that lost with IG is the same one?

#34 Posted by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio


These M-Bodies had different memory and some didn't know Quasar, Multiversal one would know all.

Because M-bodies are living fractuals of anthropomorpho who server as a body for Eternity.

"Able to shape ourselves in an infinite manner, we serve as the manifestaion bodies for beings who have no physical form"

Thats why they are differnet M-bodies.

And it sure wasnt an m-body that Thanos defeated.


This proves that not everything they see is THE Eternity.

No most of what we see is an m-body manifestation for Eternity created in the dimension of manifest. Thanos defeat the actual Eternity not M-body to wrestle the mantle of center of his universe.

Bios , lots and lots of bios :)

Apart from them both being called Eternity, Eternity bio address both the instance as happening to one being.

The scan below is from Marvel Handbook 2006, on the same page both the instances are mentioned, clearly showing it happened to the same Eternity. Left hand side third paragraph tanks about IG Saga and right hand side second paragraph second paragraph tanks about Genis story.

#35 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

1.M-Bodies would remember all that Eternity remember.

2.I had longer post, but CV cutted it. This handbook simply don't recognize differences between universe and multiverse, ergo between ME and Eternity.

#37 Edited by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

1.M-Bodies would remember all that Eternity remember.

Why?

Where does it say so?

M-bodies are just a whole different being, shaped to help Eternity talk in the physical realm.

And again, Eternity said that earlier just as well, that he doesnt remember minor events, even guys like Dormammu are just flickering thought in his consciousness. If something like a tussel with Dormammu was too small for Eternity to remember why should it be any different against Quasar?

2.I had longer post, but CV cutted it. This handbook simply don't recognize differences between universe and multiverse, ergo between ME and Eternity.

Thats because there is no seperate entity as Multi-Eternity, the terms was used once, likely in error during Fantastic Four Annual 2001, which later goes on to call the same being Eternity.

Everything that happened in Abraxas story line is also perfectly backed by various Abraxas bio, Ultimiate Nullifier bio as well as Eternity bio as happening to Eternity and not some different character called Multi-Eternity.

Its not a different thing.

Death was written to be multiversal during Secret Wars 2 just as well, its not some differnet multi-death character, its just Death.

#38 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

1.Becasue they can have different memories than other M-Bodies, but what was done by Eternity has to be remembered by them, since they are his avatars.

2.It is not an error, but an explanation why sometimes we have seen universal level threats and sometimes multiversal ones. It is a different thing. Death is perfect example that supports my point. Look at war in Canncerverse.

#39 Posted by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

1.Becasue they can have different memories than other M-Bodies, but what was done by Eternity has to be remembered by them, since they are his avatars.

Not sure i still understand, ok Infinity doesnt remember Quasar, so what?

Eternity is saying Dormammu is too small for him to remember, too inconsequential for him, why would Quasar or anything related to him be any more consequential to anyone as big as Infinity to remember.

2.It is not an error, but an explanation why sometimes we have seen universal level threats and sometimes multiversal ones.

Marvel considers it an errors, its called Error in MarvelVanup, which is Marvel endorsed page even referred on handbooks.

Furthermore, if marvel did have multiversal abstracts, it would have been mentioned in at least one bio. The so called multiversal Eternity would have popped up in other issues.

Its not different thing, its 2 writer having 2 different view, stuff like that happpens in comic when dealing with loosely definited terms. Something there is the idea that destruction of 616 universe would destroy the multiverse something there isnt. Sometimes there is an idea that changing past will create an alternate reality but will never change a reality that already exists, and something its not, like during Age of Ultron.

Inconsistencies are inconsistencies.

#40 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

But logic in which they exist in multiversal's versions give us an explanation why Death could be killedi n Canncerverse, while Your explanation don't. And this pretty much ends any new point of view.

#41 Edited by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

But logic in which they exist in multiversal's versions give us an explanation why Death could be killedi n Canncerverse, while Your explanation don't. And this pretty much ends any new point of view.

Marvel doesnt segregated two different version of abstracts, they only have 1 version of Eternity or Death, why should we assume there are?

#42 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@killemall:

But logic in which they exist in multiversal's versions give us an explanation why Death could be killedi n Canncerverse, while Your explanation don't. And this pretty much ends any new point of view.

Marvel doesnt segregated two different version of abstracts, they only have 1 version of Eternity or Death, why should we assume there are?

Because we've seen both versions and we know that Death from one universe can die without "death" of others. There are pages in Databases that tell us about abstracts from other universes, sometimes about thier deaths too.

#43 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (5655 posts) - - Show Bio
#44 Posted by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio


Because we've seen both versions and we know that Death from one universe can die without "death" of others. There are pages in Databases that tell us about abstracts from other universes, sometimes about thier deaths too.

But there isnt a page in the database that says there is an actual seperate entity called Multi-Eternity.

More-over, everything supposedly link to this character has been backed in the bio of normal Eternity.

We can agree to disagree, but its pretty clear, despite inconsistency, Marvel for one sees the supposedly multi-eternity and Eternity as 1.

Why make a distinction beyond what the official source makes?

#45 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

Yes, they do and I don't deny that sometimes - like when Entropy killed him - it was multiversal version of Eternity, but You can't deny that Marvel shown universal ones that weren't multiversal at all (like Death killed in Canncerverse).

#46 Posted by Killemall (18583 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

Yes, they do and I don't deny that sometimes - like when Entropy killed him - it was multiversal version of Eternity, but You can't deny that Marvel shown universal ones that weren't multiversal at all (like Death killed in Canncerverse).

That part i understand, but the point was, inconsistency on Eternity aside, we know IG was made to be more powerful than any abstract, and IG itself has been written from multiversal during Warren Ellis Ultraforce, to universe + in Infinity Wars to squarely barely universe in Hickman's run.

Inconsistencies happen, but the point was IG was meant to be significantly superior to Eternity, and Entrophy even then only killed Eternity because he wanted to die.

The difference between the two seems pretty evident doesnt it?

#47 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@killemall:

Yes, they do and I don't deny that sometimes - like when Entropy killed him - it was multiversal version of Eternity, but You can't deny that Marvel shown universal ones that weren't multiversal at all (like Death killed in Canncerverse).

That part i understand, but the point was, inconsistency on Eternity aside, we know IG was made to be more powerful than any abstract, and IG itself has been written from multiversal during Warren Ellis Ultraforce, to universe + in Infinity Wars to squarely barely universe in Hickman's run.

Inconsistencies happen, but the point was IG was meant to be significantly superior to Eternity, and Entrophy even then only killed Eternity because he wanted to die.

The difference between the two seems pretty evident doesnt it?

Point is that inconsistency works agaisnt Thanos here. Entropy defeated multiversal Eternity. Thanos doesn't have prove that Eternity defeated by IG was multiversal one, so we have to assume it was universal one, because we always go by minimal possible feat, not maximal one. Ergo, we only know that Thanos have universal feat there, but Entropy has for sure multiversal one, so he wins it.

#48 Posted by Pistolwhip1 (843 posts) - - Show Bio

Both characters at full power? Thanos stomps.

#49 Posted by JwwProd (9526 posts) - - Show Bio

@pistolwhip1 said:

Both characters at full power? Thanos stomps.

  1. That the Heart of the Universe that Thanos is using in that scan not the Infinity Gauntlet!
  2. Were does the op say that Thanos has the Heart of the Universe exactly?
#50 Edited by Pistolwhip1 (843 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod:

Doesn't state he does have, nor does it state he can't have it.

OP just states "At Full power, and wins by any means."

HOTU Thanos is the highest he has been.