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#51 Posted by GhostRavage (8962 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: This pretty much sums it up...

@ghostravage:

Superman would pummel Silver Surfer. How is he defeating Superman? All he can do is drain him which isn't going to be so quick since he has so much Solar Radiation stored in him.

@14nc3 said:

I'm going to say what I said in another superman vs surfer page:

Been done wayyy too many times and surfer takes it pretty easily by using his cosmic awareness or telepathy to know everything about superman then:

  • uses energy projection and projects red sun radiation.
  • sucks out the sun energy from superman.
  • uses telepathy to mind rape him.
  • creates kryptonite through matter manipulation (though this one is unlikely).
  • Intangibility.
  • Auguments his power using the power cosmic then plummels him through raw strength, speed and cosmic blasts.
  • Probably more ways...

there is evidence of extreme reaction times and combat speed in @charliejade: 's post. And theres much more, just ask me if you want some....

#52 Edited by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio
@14nc3 said:

@emp3rord4v1d:

I'm going to say what I said in another superman vs surfer page:

Been done wayyy too many times and surfer takes it pretty easily by using his cosmic awareness or telepathy to know everything about superman then:

  • uses energy projection and projects red sun radiation.
  • sucks out the sun energy from superman.
  • uses telepathy to mind rape him.
  • creates kryptonite through matter manipulation (though this one is unlikely).
  • Intangibility.
  • Auguments his power using the power cosmic then plummels him through raw strength, speed and cosmic blasts.
  • Probably more ways...

there is evidence of extreme reaction times and combat speed in @charliejade: 's post. And theres much more, just ask me if you want some....

  1. He doesn't even know what red sun radiation is amde of becaus eit doesnt exist in Marvel
  2. How long would it take?
  3. That's not happeneing. Superman has TP defenses taught to him by Martian Manhunter and has broken out of TP in JLA Issue #3
  4. He doesn't know what Kryptonite is or what it is made of.
  5. Superman can vibrate his molecules to cross out intangibility and SS doesn't just stay Intangible
  6. Strength, not stronger. Speed, he's a bit faster but if this was Superman under Blue Sun he'd be FTL, so would soom in this case also.

The only way he can take Zod down is telepathic assult.

#53 Edited by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio
#54 Edited by GhostRavage (8962 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: No man... All he doesn't know he can learn with cosmic awareness instantly... CharlieJade posted some scans of Cosmic Awareness...

Yes, he is unbeatable in the Astral Plane...

Yes, he can stay intangible if he wants to...

You just can't beat Surfer by physical matters... You need some boost like Energy Projection and stuff like that... Its obvious Surfer is above Superman...

What stopping Surfer from going intangible, call his boards, trap Superman inside, send him inside a red sun, and look at him while his head explode's for being exposed in outerspace...?

#55 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage:

No man... All he doesn't know he can learn with cosmic awareness instantly... CharlieJade posted some scans of Cosmic Awareness...

Cosmic awareness will tell you the enemys weakness, it doesn't mean you know how to create or form it, he has never countered it. He doesn't know what it is. He just know it exist and it will harm Zod. You can tell me a weaness for someone but it doesn't mean that I know how to create this thing to stop you.

Yes, he can stay intangible if he wants to...

When does he stay intangible for an entire fight? Rarely or never. That's totally out of character. By Theory Zod should eb able to vibrate enough to become intangible.

You just can't beat Surfer by physical matters... You need some boost like Energy Projection and stuff like that... Its obvious Surfer is above Superman...

You need energy projection to beat Surfer? This is False.

Yes, he is unbeatable in the Astral Plane...

If were talking Superman, he is TP resistant.

What stopping Surfer from going intangible, call his boards, trap Superman inside, send him inside a red sun, and look at him while his head explode's for being exposed in outerspace...?

Because none of this will happen. He may know what a Red Sun is, BUT HOW IS HE GOING TO KNOW WHERE IT IS?

Superman would be 3x(Not counting exponentially) faster, stronger, and more powerful. Superman sundipping for 15 mintues can move suns. Imagine him under a blue sun.

#56 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage:

Cosmic Awareness would require you to actually come across Kryptonite. And it's not from his Universe so he wouldn't know what it is. Cosmic Awareness is supposed to be limited to your Universe.

Also he would have to get the Kyrptonite directly from Supermans/Zod Universe or it wont work on Superman

This is from a thread I came across a while back.

#57 Edited by GhostRavage (8962 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: All those ways of Surfer beating Superman most of them are out-of character... Since if you want Superman speedblitzing or actually using his powers the way people claim he will he's going to be out of character too... So i don't see why Sufer can't be out of character if Sups is going to be out too...

Anyway, He doesn't need to know... he just traps him, flies him till he finds a red sun...

Cosmic awareness tell you everything man, he told Gladiator he knew his weakness and he could exploit it but he wanted to keep it cool for something else i didn't memorize the dialog...

You need versatility to counter Surfers versatility man, Thanos was able to do what he did because he was resistant to Surfer's versatility... Why you need to boost Superman that much? I'll tell you why, because he's out of his league here.

#58 Edited by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

All those ways of Surfer beating Superman most of them are out-of character... Since if you want Superman speedblitzing or actually using his powers the way people claim he will he's going to be out of character too... So i don't see why Sufer can't be out of character if Sups is going to be out too...

Who said he speed blitz?

Anyway, He doesn't need to know... he just traps him, flies him till he finds a red sun...

Please explain to me how he is going to catch Zob on this board? And I would assume BFR is off.

Cosmic awareness tell you everything man, he told that guy he knew his weakness and he could exploit it but he wanted to keep it cool for something else i didn't memorize the dialog...

Cosmic Awareness and Omniscience are two different things. It doesn't tell you everything.

You need versatility to counter Surfers versatility man, Thanos was able to do what he did because he was resistant to Surfer's versatility... Why you need to boost Superman that much? I'll tell you why, because he's out of his league here.

I'm not boosting him at all. I provided scans and reasona s to why none of what you said made any sense. Especially this last quote that I got from you. He was resistant to Surfers versatility? Explain.

#59 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage:

Mind countering all three of the scans I provided?

#60 Edited by dondave (37550 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: No man... All he doesn't know he can learn with cosmic awareness instantly... CharlieJade posted some scans of Cosmic Awareness...

Yes, he is unbeatable in the Astral Plane...

Yes, he can stay intangible if he wants to...

You just can't beat Surfer by physical matters... You need some boost like Energy Projection and stuff like that... Its obvious Surfer is above Superman...

What stopping Surfer from going intangible, call his boards, trap Superman inside, send him inside a red sun, and look at him while his head explode's for being exposed in outerspace...?

Surfer has been beaten by purely physically mean, Thanos for example

@ghostravage:

No man... All he doesn't know he can learn with cosmic awareness instantly... CharlieJade posted some scans of Cosmic Awareness...

Cosmic awareness will tell you the enemys weakness, it doesn't mean you know how to create or form it, he has never countered it. He doesn't know what it is. He just know it exist and it will harm Zod. You can tell me a weaness for someone but it doesn't mean that I know how to create this thing to stop you.

Yes, he can stay intangible if he wants to...

When does he stay intangible for an entire fight? Rarely or never. That's totally out of character. By Theory Zod should eb able to vibrate enough to become intangible.

You just can't beat Surfer by physical matters... You need some boost like Energy Projection and stuff like that... Its obvious Surfer is above Superman...

You need energy projection to beat Surfer? This is False.

Yes, he is unbeatable in the Astral Plane...

If were talking Superman, he is TP resistant.

What stopping Surfer from going intangible, call his boards, trap Superman inside, send him inside a red sun, and look at him while his head explode's for being exposed in outerspace...?

Because none of this will happen. He may know what a Red Sun is, BUT HOW IS HE GOING TO KNOW WHERE IT IS?

Superman would be 3x(Not counting exponentially) faster, stronger, and more powerful. Superman sundipping for 15 mintues can move suns. Imagine him under a blue sun.

Superman has fallen prey to telepathic assault before and has only ever resisted some due to mind locks placed by Martian Manhunter something Zod doesn't have

And Silver Surfer doesn't have to produce Kryptonite or find a Red Sun, he could just absorb the Solar Radiation in Zod's body

#61 Edited by homicidalmaniac (7662 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Do we even know how Thanos strength is.

#62 Edited by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave:

I know he has fallen to TP but I'm saying that Superman does have some sort of defense. I wasnt speakign for Zod on that one just Superman. And Superman has broke out of TP in JLA Issue 3 when he was under the Kryptonite but then came to realzie it was all implimented in his head.

And Silver Surfer doesn't have to produce Kryptonite or find a Red Sun, he could just absorb the Solar Radiation in Zod's body

I know he can do this but there's 2 factors.

  1. How long would it take, he was taking a lot of radaiton fromt eh Blue Sun before hand +the radaition from the yellow sun he already had. OP said he was living there and he's right under it. That infensifies the amount of radiation intake.
  2. The battle is right infront of a Blue Sun, it's not like Zod wont feel himself getting weaker and go straight to the sun.
#63 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@emp3rord4v1d:

Can you give an outline of what new powers he gets?

#64 Posted by GhostRavage (8962 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage:

Mind countering all three of the scans I provided?

Easy man... I was posting my comment when you posted that.

Anyway, the first 2 scans doesn't prove Surfer wouldn't know which kryptonite will be his weakness... Cosmic Awareness lets you know people weaknesses and how to exploit it against them. I hardly doubt he would use a kyrptonite that wont affect Superman...

(Im curious about what happened next in that panel... Why everything was turning red? Were they flying towards a red sun?)

About the third scan... What about it?... He was studying Hulk the same way Beyonder did... Hulk is a very interesting creature for sure... I can show scans of him turning Hulk back to Banner and harming Hulk greatly just by exploiting his weakness...

@ghostravage said:

@wardemon32: No man... All he doesn't know he can learn with cosmic awareness instantly... CharlieJade posted some scans of Cosmic Awareness...

Yes, he is unbeatable in the Astral Plane...

Yes, he can stay intangible if he wants to...

You just can't beat Surfer by physical matters... You need some boost like Energy Projection and stuff like that... Its obvious Surfer is above Superman...

What stopping Surfer from going intangible, call his boards, trap Superman inside, send him inside a red sun, and look at him while his head explode's for being exposed in outerspace...?

Surfer has been beaten by purely physically mean, Thanos for example

Any other instance? Because Thanos took Surfer beams to the face with no sign of harm... I guess he has what it takes to put Surfer down...

#65 Edited by PowerHerc (84035 posts) - - Show Bio

Zod wins.

#66 Edited by dondave (37550 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave:

I know he has fallen to TP but I'm saying that Superman does have some sort of defense. I wasnt speakign for Zod on that one just Superman. And Superman has broke out of TP in JLA Issue 3 when he was under the Kryptonite but then came to realzie it was all implimented in his head.

And Silver Surfer doesn't have to produce Kryptonite or find a Red Sun, he could just absorb the Solar Radiation in Zod's body

I know he can do this but there's 2 factors.

  1. How long would it take, he was taking a lot of radaiton fromt eh Blue Sun before hand +the radaition from the yellow sun he already had. OP said he was living there and he's right under it. That infensifies the amount of radiation intake.
  2. The battle is right infront of a Blue Sun, it's not like Zod wont feel himself getting weaker and go straight to the sun.

I agree he has some defence but nay sufficient skilled or powerful enough telepath can take him down even Gorilla Grodd has done it. Also breaking free of the Kryptonite illusion is really a TP feat, it's more of a logic feat or him realizing he was under the placebo effect. "If you believe it will work;it will" in regard to Kryptonite, once he realized he should be dead, he figured it wasn't real, it had nothing to do with telepathic resistance

#67 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage:

Cosmic Awareness lets you know people weaknesses and how to exploit it against them. I hardly doubt he would use a kyrptonite that wont affect Superman...

Like I said, he may know about it but he doesn't know how to create it. I've said this about 6 times already. All of teh Kryptonites are the same. It's just that it's not from the same universe so it wont work. It has to be from that universe.

(Im curious about what happened next in that panel... Why everything was turning red? Were they flying towards a red sun?)

Yup.

About the third scan... What about it?... He was studying Hulk the same way Beyonder did... Hulk is a very interesting creature for sure...

At the end it says "This creature is far more dangerous than teh Hulk he once knew". He doesn't know of things outside of his Universe. That's nto what cosmic awareness does. It for whats in YOUR universe. If this cosmic awareness was the way you were explainign it he wouldn't have to sit there and stufdy it, or question what it was because he would already know.

This is exactly what you said..

"All he doesn't know he can learn with cosmic awareness instantly... CharlieJade posted some scans of Cosmic Awareness..."

I can show scans of him turning Hulk back to Banner and harming Hulk greatly just by exploiting his weakness...

  1. I'm pretty sure what you're going to show but go ahead
  2. I already adressed this above.
  3. Hulk has no weakness. Taking away his gamma radiation isn't his "weakness"

And like I said, they are literally right next to a Blue sun and Zod was literally living nex to the sun and the fight is literally right next to it.

Any other instance? Because Thanos took Surfer beams to the face with no sign of harm... I guess he has what it takes to put Surfer down...

  • Runner did it
  • I'm looking a scan where Doom did it
  • Hulk can hurt SS

#68 Posted by Web_Flotsam (1118 posts) - - Show Bio

Depending on comparative speeds, Surfer could drag Zod off to the nearest red sun before sucking him dry. After all, he's a space traveler and should know where the nearest one is, and even if he doesn't, he can use his super vision to find one.

#69 Posted by GhostRavage (8962 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage:

Cosmic Awareness lets you know people weaknesses and how to exploit it against them. I hardly doubt he would use a kyrptonite that wont affect Superman...

Like I said, he may know about it but he doesn't know how to create it. I've said this about 6 times already. All of teh Kryptonites are the same. It's just that it's not from the same universe so it wont work. It has to be from that universe.

(Im curious about what happened next in that panel... Why everything was turning red? Were they flying towards a red sun?)

Yup.

About the third scan... What about it?... He was studying Hulk the same way Beyonder did... Hulk is a very interesting creature for sure...

At the end it says "This creature is far more dangerous than teh Hulk he once knew". He doesn't know of things outside of his Universe. That's nto what cosmic awareness does. It for whats in YOUR universe. If this cosmic awareness was the way you were explainign it he wouldn't have to sit there and stufdy it, or question what it was because he would already know.

This is exactly what you said..

"All he doesn't know he can learn with cosmic awareness instantly... CharlieJade posted some scans of Cosmic Awareness..."

I can show scans of him turning Hulk back to Banner and harming Hulk greatly just by exploiting his weakness...

  1. I'm pretty sure what you're going to show but go ahead
  2. I already adressed this above.
  3. Hulk has no weakness. Taking away his gamma radiation isn't his "weakness"

And like I said, they are literally right next to a Blue sun and Zod was literally living nex to the sun and the fight is literally right next to it.

Any other instance? Because Thanos took Surfer beams to the face with no sign of harm... I guess he has what it takes to put Surfer down...

  • Runner did it
  • I'm looking a scan where Doom did it
  • Hulk can hurt SS

From where did you get he wont know how to create it?

Also, you're taking my arguments literally how im writing them... I was addressing the "All he doesn't know he can learn through cosmic awareness instantly" about the weaknesses not about him being omniscient nor anything similar.

Even Beyonder needed to study Hulk closely... Hulk has proven to be a very intriguing creature since the 70's with The Stranger and 80's with PR Beyonder... So i don't know what's up with Surfer studying Hulk like those high cosmic entities did in the past...

Maybe you're right... Hulk has no weaknesses but he found a way to turn him back to Banner...

About the third scan again, he just stood there totally ignoring how pissed Hulk was... Those are empty statements man... Because there are enough scans that prove Silver Surfer will exploit weaknesses without problem rather than a few he didn't...

Post those scans with Runner, Doom and Hulk if you may, im curious... And if im not mistaken Runner had the Space Gem and he has a calming aura that prevented Surfer to put the guard up...

#70 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage:

From where did you get he wont know how to create it?

Also, you're taking my arguments literally how im writing them... I was addressing the "All he doesn't know he can learn through cosmic awareness instantly" about the weaknesses not about him being omniscient nor anything similar.

Am I not supposed to take your arguements literally how you're righting them? If I did the opposite you would haev said "Stop twisting what I said".

Tell me HOW can he create it when cosmic awareness is within their Universe and not any others? If that was teh case he wouldn't have to sit there and study Hulk, he would already knwow hat it is.

Even Beyonder needed to study Hulk closely... Hulk has proven to be a very intriguing creature since the 70's with The Stranger and 80's with PR Beyonder... So i don't know what's up with Surfer studying Hulk like those high cosmic entities did in the past...

Lol.

Maybe you're right... Hulk has no weaknesses but he found a way to turn him back to Banner...

But then Hulk could always trun back from his anger. How is he doing that to Zod who is right next to the sun?

About the third scan again, he just stood there totally ignoring how pissed Hulk was... Those are empty statements man... Because there are enough scans that prove Silver Surfer will exploit weaknesses without problem rather than a few he didn't...

That was never my point. I don't care how angry Hulk was. My point is that he ddin't know what it was "The energy you are generating appears to have quality that is almost inter dimensional". He should have already known right? Nope. It only works within their Universe.

Please show me how he is going to conjur up something he never came across and from a different universe.

Post those scans with Runner, Doom and Hulk if you may, im curious... And if im not mistaken Runner had the Space Gem and he has a calming aura that prevented Surfer to put the guard up...

NVM the one with Doom, SS didn't have his board. For soem reason I can't post up the Runnver vs SS scans. But how is him being able to effect how you feel against him relevant? SS fought back and still got owned. You said he can't be downed by physical force. And I just showed you SS getting hurt by Hulks slap.

#71 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage:

You still havent shown how

  • SS will know how to create Kryptonite
  • Absorb Zod when he already had the Yellow Sun Radiation before hand and was already sundipping the the blue sun which means that theres more radation to absorb while he has a large suply right next to him.
  • How will he trap hm onto his board while Zod is moving FTL also.
  • How is he going to find this Red Sun when their is no proof they are in a universe with a Red Sun around.

#72 Posted by GhostRavage (8962 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32:

  • How can i show him doing kryptonite? Also, he doesn't need to create Kryptonite but to emit its radiation...
  • In this particular scenario... He will probably BFR him or try to beat him in the Astral Plane... OR, make a Black Hole inside the sun and make it disappear.
  • So what? If they are moving at the same speed he can still trap him...
  • Well.. If they're fighting in a place where there's a blue sun... WHY wont a red sun exist in that universe?
  • Also, it never said he was sun dipped, more like absorbing blue sun radiation like Superman normally does on Earth...

Also, about my arguments... You need to see the context of why i replied that way... You ignored the context and claimed i was making a point about omniscience... Just sayin'

Also, you can hurt SS physically, but that is not going to put him down... And even less a mad SS like the OP is stating... I only recall Thanos doing it and well... Its Thanos, the one who Galactus said needed to make significant effort to put down... I don't remember Runner doing such thing but i do remember Surfer supposedly losing to him...

#73 Edited by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage:

How can i show him doing kryptonite? Also, he doesn't need to create Kryptonite but to emit its radiation...

I didn't sat that. take what I'm saying literal. Let me quote myself "

"SS will know how to create Kryptonite"

You don't have to show him making kryptonite. You can just show Silver Surfer making some type of radation or something of that nature to harm his enemy because cosmic awareness told him "This is what you need to defeat this guy and you have to make it to defeat him"

If you can't show just that you have nothing to back your arguement, at all.

In this particular scenario... He will probably BFR him or try to beat him in the Astral Plane... OR, make a Black Hole inside the sun and make it disappear.

How is he going to BFR him? He's mad at Zod, why would be BFR him instead of punding on him? And were still waiting until the OP says BFR is OK.

If you form a black hole near a sun, it would form a white dwarf star causing it to explode. The sun radiation is now fledged full force into Zods skin which would make him stronger. And Silver Surfer would possibly be KOd. So if he does do this then he loses. So you just admitted than Surfer would do something like this yourself. Something that could potientially kill himself and possibly power up Zod.

And he becomes more powerful so it should be harder to defeat him with TP, and if Zod destroys his body that should coutn as a win.

So what? If they are moving at the same speed he can still trap him...

Please go on and tell me how fast SS will be going. I can maek a small estimate.

Zod is directly near the sun and it said he was "living" there. So we can assume he was living there for a couole of years but I'll lowball and say 1 week.

If he already had Yellow Sun Radiation he would go about half the speed of light(Which I completely lowballed), so under a Blue Sun making him 3x more powerful he should be going 1.5 times the speed of light. Then you have the occasionaly getting closer to the sun which should increase his speed to over 10 times the speed of light(Another low ball).

But do you honestly think Zod, a military trained General Kryptonian would be stupid enough to run into his board?

Well.. If they're fighting in a place where there's a blue sun... WHY wont a red sun exist in that universe?

What kind of logic is that? Because there's blue it must be a red son? OP never said there was a red sun in this universe.

Also, it never said he was sun dipped, more like absorbing blue sun radiation like Superman normally does on Earth...

I'm pretty sure if Zod found a Blue Sun that makes him 3x more powerful and gives him new powers...he sundipped. If you had a fountain that made you stronger and faster, are you just going to take one sip or a cup full? My point exactly.

Also, about my arguments... You need to see the context of why i replied that way... You ignored the context and claimed i was making a point about omniscience... Just sayin'

What context? Please enlighten me because I have no idea what you are talkign about.

I said he doesn't know what Kryptontie is and he'd have to know what it is to create it. You said

No man... All he doesn't know he can learn with cosmic awareness instantly... CharlieJade posted some scans of Cosmic Awareness...

That context? Lol. Me saying he doesn't know what it is so he can't use it and you saying he has cosmic awareness and he can learn it instantly?

Also, you can hurt SS physically, but that is not going to put him down... And even less a mad SS like the OP is stating... I only recall Thanos doing it and well... Its Thanos, the one who Galactus said needed to make significant effort to put down... I don't remember Runner doing such thing but i do remember Surfer supposedly losing to him...

This makes NO sense. You think they'd make a character than can get hurt by punches but can't be KOd by them? Only by energy projection?

Hahahahaha, you can get punched and get hurt by it but it can't put you down. Guess what Thanos did?

You just can't beat Surfer by physical matters... You need some boost like Energy Projection and stuff like that... Its obvious Surfer is above Superman...

How does this make any sense? Proof of Marvel saying "I can only be beat by energy projection and never be beat by punches and kicks".

You still haven't addressed anything I've said. And you still have no proof of there being a red sun or that Silver Surfer can use his cosmic awareness to create kryptonite. When I've already stated cosmic awareness is limited to your universe, thats why he didn't know of Hulk. Even if it was Beyoneder, if he had cosmic awareness it would work the SAME way. But prove it works outside the universe.

Also there's no Blue Sun in DC so it's obviously in another universe. I posted up TWO scans saying the kryptonite HAS to be from a specific universe(The one where their born) to have an effect on them.

#74 Edited by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage:

Untiul you can show

  • SS cosmic awareness working outside of the universe
  • SS making some type of radaition froma differnt universe to kill or neutralize someone
  • A direct quote saying "SS can't be taken down by physical harm
  • SS being able to trap someone like Zod on his board(The OP didn't even say if BFR was allowed or not so you can't even say that)
  • Counter Kryptonite only being able to work form the Universe that their from(Which you can't do)

Then you have NO ARGUEMENT.