Gandalf vs Dumbledore

No prep. The meet unexpectedly. Gandalf has his staff, Dumbledore has his wand. Who wins?

Gandalf.

@TheBatman586 said:

Gandalf.

Agreed

What with all the "Dumbledore Vs..." threads? 90% of them have all been done before 

Movie Gandalf loses. The full-form Gandalf wins.

@kingkronos said:

Movie Gandalf loses. The full-form Gandalf wins.

Are you talking about Olorin? He has no feats.

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

Movie Gandalf loses. The full-form Gandalf wins.

Are you talking about Olorin? He has no feats.

His power is implied.

Gandalf wins

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

Movie Gandalf loses. The full-form Gandalf wins.

Are you talking about Olorin? He has no feats.

His power is implied.

No it isn't. He was called wise, and infact the only thing that he ever said about his power suggests that it wasn't all that much.

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

Movie Gandalf loses. The full-form Gandalf wins.

Are you talking about Olorin? He has no feats.

His power is implied.

No it isn't. He was called wise, and infact the only thing that he ever said about his power suggests that it wasn't all that much.

Wisest of the Istari, right? His divinity should be more powerful than Dumbledore's magic. And Dumbledore has no way of killing Gandalf.

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

Movie Gandalf loses. The full-form Gandalf wins.

Are you talking about Olorin? He has no feats.

His power is implied.

No it isn't. He was called wise, and infact the only thing that he ever said about his power suggests that it wasn't all that much.

Wisest of the Istari, right? His divinity should be more powerful than Dumbledore's magic. And Dumbledore has no way of killing Gandalf.

Gandalf has already been killed once, the fact that he's a spirit doesn't suddenly grant him an auto-win. Fights are based on feats, Dumbledore's are clearly superior.

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

Movie Gandalf loses. The full-form Gandalf wins.

Are you talking about Olorin? He has no feats.

His power is implied.

No it isn't. He was called wise, and infact the only thing that he ever said about his power suggests that it wasn't all that much.

Wisest of the Istari, right? His divinity should be more powerful than Dumbledore's magic. And Dumbledore has no way of killing Gandalf.

Gandalf has already been killed once, the fact that he's a spirit doesn't suddenly grant him an auto-win. Fights are based on feats, Dumbledore's are clearly superior.

I'm not denying that Dumbledore's feats are much better. But Gandalf's power was restricted/bound.

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

Movie Gandalf loses. The full-form Gandalf wins.

Are you talking about Olorin? He has no feats.

His power is implied.

No it isn't. He was called wise, and infact the only thing that he ever said about his power suggests that it wasn't all that much.

Wisest of the Istari, right? His divinity should be more powerful than Dumbledore's magic. And Dumbledore has no way of killing Gandalf.

Gandalf has already been killed once, the fact that he's a spirit doesn't suddenly grant him an auto-win. Fights are based on feats, Dumbledore's are clearly superior.

I'm not denying that Dumbledore's feats are much better. But Gandalf's power was restricted/bound.

His power in Middle Earth was likely less than when he was Olorin, but the degree to which this is the case is complete speculation. All we know is that he was more powerful than Saruman and much less powerful than Sauron.

@Baldy: Why much less powerful than Sauron? I agree him being below Sauron, but not much below. They are certainly on the same league.

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: Why much less powerful than Sauron? I agree him being below Sauron, but not much below. They are certainly on the same league.

Tolkien said in one of his letters that Sauron was of a much higher order than them.

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: Why much less powerful than Sauron? I agree him being below Sauron, but not much below. They are certainly on the same league.

Tolkien said in one of his letters that Sauron was of a much higher order than them.

LOL, it's funny how you've read even Tolkien's letters, yet you always debate against Lotr characters.

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: Why much less powerful than Sauron? I agree him being below Sauron, but not much below. They are certainly on the same league.

Tolkien said in one of his letters that Sauron was of a much higher order than them.

LOL, it's funny how you've read even Tolkien's letters, yet you always debate against Lotr characters.

Meh. I just like the characters. It annoys me when people high-ball them and claim that they are way more powerful than they are as much as it might annoy Batman fans when people pretend that he could beat ToAA with prep.

I admit I do tend to be much harsher on characters I am a fan of than ones I'm not. With the exception of Doom probably. He could beat anyone. :P

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: Why much less powerful than Sauron? I agree him being below Sauron, but not much below. They are certainly on the same league.

Tolkien said in one of his letters that Sauron was of a much higher order than them.

LOL, it's funny how you've read even Tolkien's letters, yet you always debate against Lotr characters.

Meh. I just like the characters. It annoys me when people high-ball them and claim that they are way more powerful than they are as much as it might annoy Batman fans when people pretend that he could beat ToAA with prep.

I admit I do tend to be much harsher on characters I am a fan of than ones I'm not. With the exception of Doom probably. He could beat anyone. :P

Don't know about you, but generally people tend to be harsh on the characters they hate, not like.

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: Why much less powerful than Sauron? I agree him being below Sauron, but not much below. They are certainly on the same league.

Tolkien said in one of his letters that Sauron was of a much higher order than them.

LOL, it's funny how you've read even Tolkien's letters, yet you always debate against Lotr characters.

Meh. I just like the characters. It annoys me when people high-ball them and claim that they are way more powerful than they are as much as it might annoy Batman fans when people pretend that he could beat ToAA with prep.

I admit I do tend to be much harsher on characters I am a fan of than ones I'm not. With the exception of Doom probably. He could beat anyone. :P

Don't know about you, but generally people tend to be harsh on the characters they hate, not like.

Yep. The only characters that I hate that I'm extra harsh on are probably the ones from DBZ and Buffy. I always lowball those guys.

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: Why much less powerful than Sauron? I agree him being below Sauron, but not much below. They are certainly on the same league.

Tolkien said in one of his letters that Sauron was of a much higher order than them.

LOL, it's funny how you've read even Tolkien's letters, yet you always debate against Lotr characters.

Meh. I just like the characters. It annoys me when people high-ball them and claim that they are way more powerful than they are as much as it might annoy Batman fans when people pretend that he could beat ToAA with prep.

I admit I do tend to be much harsher on characters I am a fan of than ones I'm not. With the exception of Doom probably. He could beat anyone. :P

Don't know about you, but generally people tend to be harsh on the characters they hate, not like.

Yep. The only characters that I hate that I'm extra harsh on are probably the ones from DBZ and Buffy. I always lowball those guys.

LOL.

Oh and for what it's worth Gandalf does have the physical advantage over Dumbledore. I'm pretty certain about that. I'm not certain he would win, but it might just give him the edge if he managed to lightning bolt Dumbledore before he gets hit back.

Dumbledore woul win IMO,,but if gandalf get close all bets are off...the feats shown by dumbledore were more impressive and numerous

By feats, Dumbledore definitely wins. But from implied power, it's possible that Olorin is more powerful than Gandalf.

@Baldy said:

Oh and for what it's worth Gandalf does have the physical advantage over Dumbledore. I'm pretty certain about that. I'm not certain he would win, but it might just give him the edge if he managed to lightning bolt Dumbledore before he gets hit back.

Wouldn't Dumbledore simply be able to use a shield charm? Dumbledore can use lightning-like abilities anyways.

Harry Potter, it's lore and treatment of magic, are silly.

Gibber out a spell, point your little wandy wand and you can do just about anything. Dumbledore (emphasis on the first syllable) wins by virtue of the almighty 'Alakazam, Kalamazoo' nonsense.

Silly.

@hyiena said:

i leave mic in flames torched by Gandalf!

Olórin (Gandalf), is a Maiar Spirit, who cannot use his full power on middle earth.But even without it Dumbledore could not beat him, because only a Maia can even harm a Maia.

...But his power IS implied. Stop being silly.

dumbledick is a headteacher, Gandalf is a god, that's like saying a person vs 10 nukes

So titles again...

I have always said this that LotRU is inferior magic wise... especially combat magic. While the books are a biliion ways better than HPU, unfortunately the way they showed magic is much deeper, creeping effect.

Take Gollum... the magic of LotRU took him years to transform him, a simple transfiguration spell from any experienced 7th year in HPU would have done the trick in seconds. Just superior. Not adding in the combat effectiveness of the magic in HPU means it will always, I mean ALWAYS, be a stomp in HPU's favour vs LotR. The combat-readiness of HPU magic is far superior to LotR. Truth

In HPU... Do you want to traverse large distances say get to Mordor... here is a teleport spell. No need for horses

A flaming beast is attacking you and there is no water around... here is a spell for water. Wait... you want to be more adventurous try a levitating spell and fling them into the ravine. No need to shout "you shall not pass"

Arrows are flying towards you... no need to dodge... here is a shield spell. Minimise those pointy death times

What's that?... An army of orcs is knocking at your gates... why not create an inferi army of your own using all the dead... Or for lulz use fiendfyre... hooray!!

As for the various forms... Maiar, Valar etc... they don't count. If people want to make thread with a valar vs Riddle/HPU character it's fine but Gandall vs Riddle/'Dore/Hermione is not right if all of a sudden it becomes Maiar/Valar/Eru just because said LotRU character loses. Especially since they are featless, implied power is vague.

But alas... my points to many shall suffer, "they shall not pass".

Dumbledore curbstomps

good day

@sirnicktheepic: Lol did you really have to say 'Dumbledick'? you got me chuckling but come on dude... LOL. Gandalf the grey is even enough for the win... his feats in the Hobbit (and upcoming movies) were awesome.

Gandalf

Warrior mage vs PIS prep mage with no prep. Gandalf takes the edge

lmao @ Dumbledore using the kids to fight most of his battles.......but then again.....if he does end up doing that.....then that means he has an army of powerful kids to fight with him.....something like x men with magic wands lol

this

THIS

Unfortunately (for the battle) Tolkien's books are much more complex then the world of harry potter (henceforth IMO they are much better books).

Magic in the LOTR is more implied rather than actually used and is seen more as authority rather than full on power as is shown in Harry Potter universe therefore Gandalf will naturally have less combat feats than Dumbledore or necessarily less or less powerful feats but not as graphic or obvious as in Harry Potter for instance

1. he defeated the Balrog a being of incredible power and malice but never did it tell you how the best that happened was he shattered the bridge in Kazad-Dum and it can only be speculated to how the Balrog's power degree was as all there is to go on is that they where evil Maiar spirits who went to side with Morgoth in the time before Sauron's rule in middle earth and was one of the beings who shaped Arda so it is only a assumption that they will be massively powerful (a very admirable assumption i believe but still a assumption non the less)
2. he held of the Nazgul on weathertop over night and it was said that the valley had and would never see lightning or storms like that again but again it doesn't go into depth about his power and what specifically happened and how he used his magic to fend them of.
3. in the book he himself said that he always had to conceal his true power and never use it to its full extent because he had to conceal himself from the dark lord Sauron

so as Gandalf's power is never fully used and almost has no feats that show clear power i would have to say Dumbledore over Gandalf i personally think his power is above Dumbledore by a long way however it is only implied and can only be speculated Dumbledore having clear feats of combat and power should triumph here.

Peoples argument for Maia spirit Gandalf is irrelevant here if the OP wanted a stomp he would have said Dumbledore vs Olorin not Gandalf and before anyone ttys to argue Dumbledore beats Olorin i can give you reasons why he couldn't .

in his Maiar form he was one of the first beings in the LOTR universe being of the first bread only Eru Illuvitar himself is older as he was the creator of the Ainur (the Valar and the Maiar) and was one of the beings who lived before anything else existed and aided the Valar in the creation of Arda the bringing of time and all that is in the LOTRU and after the creation of Arda and the races of Middle Earth came down and was viewed by all races as a God along whit the rest of the Ainur Olorin (Gandalf as known by most on middle earth) was the wisest of all his order.

God who aided the creation of all that exists >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dumbledore

but this ^ is irrelevant as it is a Gandalf vs Dumbledore battle to which although it is against my beliefs i have to give it to Dumbledore here.

Gandalf will take this unless Dumbledore decides to use the forbidden curses, but I doubt he would due to morals.

@kingkronos: No way. Sauron is THE KING of darkness. He is almost like a god. I've never read the Silmarillion but from what I can tell from Lord of The Rings, Sauron is waaay more powerful. Why didn't Gandalf just kill all the orcs and goblins when they attacked Minas Tirith?

@darkspoon1506: Gandalf and the other 4 wizards were forbidden from using their full powers to influence events and battles because the Valar did not want another Sauron to be created. So, they rarely show their power even though they are each as powerful as Sauron. The movies show this poorly with the king of Angmar breaking Gandalf's staff in the 3rd movie and with Sauron destroying his staff in the second part of Hobbit. The only time any of their staffs were broken were when Gandalf fought the Balrog in moria and when he broke Saruman's staff as the new head of the Istari.

I'd give it to Dumbledore here.. Elder Wand is superior to Gandalfa staff IMO.

This is quite true. Based on the movies, I guess I'd have to give it to Dumbledore. But my heart says Gandalf all day.

And yet HP really only has a couple spells that can actually do harm to others and they don't use weapons, they need their wands to do magic, and many of their spells while quick are also far inferior.

The shields, for instance. Dumbledore's shields were barely able to stop shards of glass; while Gandalf's were tanking hits from the Balrog and even Sauron himself.
Another example is healing. In HP healing requires herbs and potions. In LOTR herbs can be helpful for certain types of wounds; but Gandalf was able to heal Thorin with just a touch.
Countering spells also differs in Gandalf's favour. While HP requires specific counter-spells; in LOTR it's more about magic against magic and it's about the strongest. As Gandalf the Grey he couldn't stop Sarumon on the mountain but s Gandalf the White he could force end his possession of the King.
Telekinesis in HP requires specific spells and using your wands and is imprecise (You need a different spell to lift something than to disarm someone) whereas Gandalf does it just with magical energy.

I also fail to see what Dumbledore can do against Gandalf's force attacks or destructive blast (it took out a bridge easily and sent his foes flying when they surrounded him).

Combine this with his superior physical abilities, his other weapons, etc; and it goes increasingly in his favour.

And while his power in the other forms doesn't count; they do count against your argument of magic. You claim that it takes years to transform in LOTR but those forms proves otherwise; it simply took Gollum years because it was the ring corrupting him. If you read the books and remembered them you'd remember that the transformation was the result of prolonged life; but that the ring didn't give more life. That's why Bilbo felt thin and stretched.


So no; not so easy for Dumbledore. Also remember that Dumbledore won his battles with the help of his Elder wand; a tool that is useless against Gandalf in that he doesn't use a wand or rely on a wand for the Elder Wand to duel against. |

In fact Dumbledore is practically featless without the Elder Wand; and the Elder Wand relies on actually dueling HP style. It's not effective against someone gutting you with a sword charged with lightning; nor did Dumbledore ever display shields remotely powerful enough to stop such things.

@rpottage: a man who actually read the books. I could say dumbledore would beat MOVIE gandalf seeing as he was but a candle to the raging inferno that the book gandalf is.

dumbledore

Dumbledore falls off a roof and dies. Gandalf falls down a huge chasm while fighting a baelrog (spelling) and still wins.

Gandalf.

This is a Gandalf stomp... Love the professor but he is out of his league here. Gandalf is almost Deity...

Hmm. Gandalf is physically more resilient. But Dumbledore is quicker and has a wider variety quick access spells, like that dreadful Faustfire (the fire tornado he did in the six book/movie). Then again Gandalf has more weird and mysterious abilities and he can easily fling people away with telekenesis. Plus he has power over lighting. Still, Dumbledore can teleport at will (I think this is in the books not the movie) and in the books there isn't any of that telltale smoke you see in the movies. They both have magical shields (though I can't remember Gandalf had it in the books)

I think Dumbledore has the edge. If it was a fight to the death dumbledore's speed, teleportation and wide access to quick and likely nasty spells would win. I mean if Dumbledore is forced to us faustfire (which he might not do give how wild it is) it would be over. Gandalf shield could probably block it... for a while but the thing about faustfire is that it just burns and burns (unless the cast is skilled in enough to stop it). Gandalf is a resillient bastard for sure with tons of stamina but... I mean, how long can Gandalf hold a shield for. It is living fire. Then again from quick research it seems Gandalf is able to summon lighting at will. Lightening strong enough to slay a few trolls at once. One hit and DD is pushing daisies. But Dumbledore can do all kinds of things like animate statues, control water and likely all kinds of things at any time.