#1 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1995 posts) - - Show Bio

Battle ends in death.

Book version Gandalf.
Morals off, bloodlust on.

1 hour prep for both, full knowledge.

Both allowed additional assitance.

Who wins?

#2 Posted by Albertphytagoras (1839 posts) - - Show Bio

Kratos haters in 1...2...3...

Gandalf should win in this match (considering this is not full powered kratos).

#3 Edited by GraniteSoldier (7848 posts) - - Show Bio

Gandalf is far more powerful than he's shown in the movies. You could argue Gandalf the White is over Skyfather level. Don't think Kratos is there.

#4 Posted by Supersaiyan_Danger (722 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: Skyfather is something that has no limits to properly stand.

If you mean Skyfather like Marvel Gods then your so wrong.

If you mean Skyfather as in a god of his universe? Absolutely yes, no doubt. He create the majority of the world if I'm not mistaken

#5 Edited by Cjdavis103 (9433 posts) - - Show Bio

which version of Kratos?

and Gandalf is not sky fauter level if he was he could solo Mordors hordes

edge Kratos the guy is a walking death machine

#6 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17440 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: All five of the istari were banned from entering a direct power competition by valar.

#7 Edited by Cjdavis103 (9433 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17440 posts) - - Show Bio

Ah, sorry.

Gandalf = one of the five spirits (maiar) sent to middle earth in disguise of wizard. The five wizards were also known as istari.

Valar = Stronger spirits of his kind. There's not a clear distinction between a valar and a maiar though.

#9 Posted by Rocksmasher (16 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys haven't a clue what you're talking about do you?

Did you not play any of the God of War games? Lets begin with the fact that Kratos is a GOD, of WAR, literally, he is the god of war, he slaughtered Ares the previous God of War as a mere mortal. He is a demi god, he has the power of hope which is the most powerful thing in the world and possibly the universe. He took out ALL of the gods of Olympus.

He killed all the all powerful gods which include

Poseidon - Kills him by smashing his head repeatedly into walls and then eventually gouging his eyes out and snapping his neck so then after he leaves him to plummet off the cliff to his end. (Also ends up with a MASSIVE tsunami that instantly kills most of the population living on land)

Hades - Smashes his head into a ceiling with his own weapons and steals his soul, so he also has the soul of hades, which doubles his powers already.

Helios - Stomps on his head multiple times, then does a major sucker punch to the side of his head and proceeds to slowly tear his head from his shoulders which blocks out the sun.

Hercules - Smashes his face in multiple times with his own weapons until his face is turned into a bloody cesspit of blood and only little remains of his skull is left behind.

Cronos (The king of the titans, the biggest and strongest one too) - Tears his entire stomach out of his body, then slams a giant nail bolt under his chin and stabs him in the forehead with the sword of Olympus.

Zeus (The king of all gods, the most powerful god) - Sword of Olympus is plunged into his abdomen and afterwards is strangled and punched to death with Krato's bare hands until he is dead.

With that he also destroyed the entire planet, killed off the entire human race, and to top it all off, he stabbed himself in the abdomen with the sword Olympus and releases the power of hope to the world to give humanity a chance at a new life and bleeds out, but in the ending cinematic after the credits it shows that he actually survived all of that by jumping into the ocean. Gandalf died from some demon.

What makes you think an old man who is a spirit of some random species whose only feats is killing a Balrog, an ancient demon and he even dies afterwards. Oh and Saruman beat him in a 1 on 1 fight in his tower... so... I'm at loss for words when you think some petty demi god with the powers equivalent to Perseus which Kratos granted a nasty ending to as well.

You're not getting it, if Gandalf was all that stood in Kratos' path, then I don't think Gandalf is gonna have fun being impaled on the top of Saruman's tower being pecked to death by the crows on top of there.

It's a stomp for Kratos, sorry Gandalf fanboys and LOTR fanboys :(

#10 Posted by i_like_swords (14475 posts) - - Show Bio

@rocksmasher: I have a couple of questions.

1. Have you read the LOTR books?

2. If not, are you basing your answer off of the movie version of Gandalf?

#11 Posted by Hulkman123 (1706 posts) - - Show Bio

Gandalf is far more powerful than he's shown in the movies. You could argue Gandalf the White is over Skyfather level. Don't think Kratos is there.

lol, Gandalf is no where near Skyfather level. He would get one shotted by Thor.

#12 Edited by PhoenixoftheTides (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

@supersaiyan_danger said:

@granitesoldier: Skyfather is something that has no limits to properly stand.

If you mean Skyfather like Marvel Gods then your so wrong.

If you mean Skyfather as in a god of his universe? Absolutely yes, no doubt. He create the majority of the world if I'm not mistaken

No, Gandalf didn't create the majority of the world. He did serve two of the supreme divine powers that were involved in the primary making/fine-tuning of the Earth, though. He was extremely powerful being of a lesser divine race than the supreme divinities and very wise in the powers underlying the rules of the planet.

But considering the massive amount of gods, including the leader of a pantheon, which Kratos killed...I hate the character but if we are going to go by feats, including the most ridiculous, Kratos could potentially at least kill his body. Gandalf could win if he was in his spirit, Maiar form, perhaps.

#13 Posted by colliderz (1984 posts) - - Show Bio

Dunno a lot about book Gandalf but if he is on Sky Father Level or even can hold his own for a brief second that is enough for to call this Gandalf stomp.

#14 Posted by Auction_Sniper (1254 posts) - - Show Bio

When isn't Kratos bloodlusted? Anyway, what can pops do?

#15 Edited by 106me (1529 posts) - - Show Bio

@phoenixofthetides: Yeah, good point.

If we are going by power levels, Gandalf should be somewhere around skyfather, but by feats he's not. He probably would beat Kratos, but Gandalf doesn't have any feats to show it, other than the fact that he was a divine being.

#16 Edited by GodTriggerHulk (1998 posts) - - Show Bio

Gandalf ain't got feats. Kratos FTW.

#17 Posted by xJomb (43 posts) - - Show Bio

@rocksmasher: after your post, its funny there is a word "fanboy" at the end :D

#18 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9433 posts) - - Show Bio

@106me: pretty much no feats no win

#19 Edited by 106me (1529 posts) - - Show Bio

@godtriggerhulk: @cjdavis103: No, Gandalf doesn't have any feats to show he can beat Kratos, but that doesn't mean he can't.

That's what I hate about this site. Feats = everything. By feats, spider-man would beat Mundus (DMC). By feats, Thanos would beat TOAA. We know that even though neither Thanos or Spider-Man would beat TOAA or Mundus, they (TOAA and Mundus) don't have the feats to back it up. It's an incredibly flawed system on this site.

#20 Edited by Cjdavis103 (9433 posts) - - Show Bio


actually we have feats for mundus that would let him curb spidey in half a second

and TOAA is ABC logic TOAA>marvel universe that's the point of the character

We just have no idea how powerful Gandelf is as Divine covers a massive range of powers from streetlevel to omniversal

#21 Edited by PhoenixoftheTides (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

@106me said:

@phoenixofthetides: Yeah, good point.

If we are going by power levels, Gandalf should be somewhere around skyfather, but by feats he's not. He probably would beat Kratos, but Gandalf doesn't have any feats to show it, other than the fact that he was a divine being.

No, that's incorrect. In the Lord of the Rings universe, the closest being to the One Above All would be Iluvatar, who created all of existence. Iluvatar was served by divine spirits called the Ainur, many of whom would be considered to be near skyfather level separately but some of the greatest of these spirits came to Earth to create a place where living beings could live and they were called the Valar. The chief of the masculine Valar was Manwe, and the chief of the feminine Valar (called the Valier) was Varda (called Elbereth by the Middle Earth Elves - she created the stars). The maiar were lesser spirits that served the Valar in these efforts: Melian (Galadriel's mentor and teacher), Gandalf, Radagast, Saruman and the other two Istari were all maiar. However, when the Valar Melkor turned against creation and wanted to take Earth for himself, he took with him many of his own followers, among which were many maiar who took on physical form. Among these maiar were Sauron, his chief, Ungoliant, the mother of spiders, the Balrogs (or Valraukar, which was the elvish name) and many others who would become legendary monsters such as vampires and etc. There are varying orders of magnitude among the Valar/Valier, but they are each more powerful and mightier than the maiar, and there are power scales between the maiar still (Saruman, for example, was the mightiest and most powerful of the other four Istari, but Gandalf the White was likely closer to his full power since the war had almost been won). When the Istari were given their mission, they took on the physical bodies of old men, and were forbade from using their full powers in direct battle against Sauron - they voluntarily allowed themselves to be "nerfed" in order to inspire the younger races, such as mankind, to take up the fight against Melkor's remaining agents.

It is said that each maiar essentially acted in Middle Earth as they had learned from the Valar they had served. Gandalf's power lay primarily in the Valar and Valier he learned from: he served Manwe and Varda, so learned of the higher order of things, but he also learned from Lorien, the Valar of dreams, so he learned of the hopes and dreams of men and elves, and he was also said to have learned from Nienna, the Valier of sorrow and pity. Thus, Gandalf's power wasn't in being skillful, such as Saruman, nor was it in understanding both living and growing things, such as Radagast - his power lie in his ability to inspire other beings to hope and fight for what they believed in. By contrast, one of the Blue Istari was a servant of Orome, who was the Valar with greatest skills of weaponry and hunting, so it could be said that if it came down to powers of war, that Istari would have had the greatest knowledge. Further contrast this with Melkor's powers of taking other creations, mastering them and making his own so he could rule and this becomes evident when you see that Sauron and the Balrogs, who were all maiar, each used their power to dominate and subjigate lesser beings using force in various ways.

Basically, Iluvatar > the Valar/Ainur > maiar > elves > dwarves/hobbits/men. A theme in Lord of the Rings is largely about elder races/powers teaching younger races what they learned; somewhat revealing a truth of the nature of living things, if you would. Hence, their supreme Creator had no chapels and the Ainur weren't told to teach the elves or men to worship Iluvatar - just to love creation. The enemies in Lord of the Rings are primarily concerned with being worshiped and having servants.

This is all pretty well-known lore so you can Wikipedia or Google search any of these terms to determine that as a longtime Tolkien dork, I know what I'm talking about here (plus, "The Silmarillion" was my favorite book, and those stories all dealt with the creation of Earth and the first defeat of Melkor, so the nature of the Ainur, Valar and maiar are pretty fleshed out - moreso than Kratos' universe).

So if you wanted to make a gross approximation, ToAA = Iluvatar, Valar/Ainur = skyfathers/skymothers, maiar = demigods, elves = superheroes and etc.

Now, Kratos (a character designed for a power fantasy video game based around violence, so it feels hilariously ridiculous to compare him to the LotR lore in the first place) doesn't quite fall on this scale so easily, but he defeated gods and demigods, so we could roughly suggest he was similar to a maiar in power by the end of his game even though he started out as a human. The Valar and Valier, though, never married themselves to a physical form, so they were often worked as divine spirits, taking on physical form as necessary, so they probably wouldn't get killed the way Zeus and the other gods in "God of War" were killed. The greatest characters in LotR are creators, even the dark enemies, so they don't match up well with a gross story glorifying staggering levels of violence - it is understanding of the universe and natural order that gives the divine spirits and elves their powers...not ability to string together combo chains or kill every monster in front of them.

The most important point is that we know that maiar that are in physical form can have those physical forms killed. Gandalf the Grey's body died and he was reincarnated as Gandalf the White, since the Ainur/Valar can send certain beings back in new bodies if they did particularly well to advance the cause of creation. They did this with elves, as well, so it wasn't limited to those of their kind. The spirits can live on, but the body can be defeated. Hence, Gandalf the White could still die and be sent back to Valinor, where the Valar, maiar and the highest elves who never came to Middle Earth reside. He was killed once by the Balrog in Moria, and he would probably be physically killed if Kratos came at him with his Blades and crazy combos.

#22 Posted by OfficialRikudouSennin (631 posts) - - Show Bio

Kratos get fucked up