Gandalf the White vs. Jadis the White Witch

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kingkronos

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#51  Edited By kingkronos

Gandalf ftw.

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Baldy

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#52  Edited By Baldy

@The_Thunderer said:

@Baldy: Slaying a Balrog. Blocking Saruman's spells without moving or saying anything. Smashing Saruman's staff with a thought. Summoning Eagles to his aid numerous times. Fighting several trolls simultaneously. Aiding the White Council in driving Sauron ( Sauron himself, not just his forces ) out of Dol Guldor. Fighting of all 9 of the nazgul simultaneously on Weathertop. Driving off several nazgul with his blinding light. Braks Saruman's and Grima's hold over Theoden in seconds. He charges his sword (glamdring) with electricity before stabbing the balrog with it ( this enhances the power and damage the blade can inflict ). He has on numerous occasions displayed his ability for magical kinesis. He has shown the ability to use lightning (in the hobbit ) to destroy several goblins at once. He can and has been shown to create an unquenchable fire. He also has the destructive blast move, which he uses a fraction of in destroying the bridge at khazad-dum.

Enough?

How about some Jadis ones?

You forgot to mention that the balrog also kicked his *** so hard that it took the direct intervention of Eru to bring him back.

Saruman has no feats, as such the blocking of his spells is meaningless and there is no reference on the difficulty. Saruman's staff has no known durability feats and I believe the books make no mention of him breaking it with a thought.

When did he summon eagles? Gwaihir showed up and rescued him of his own accord, this comment suggests to me that all you know about LoTR comes from the movies.

Trolls get killed en masse in the Silmarillion, like everything else in LoTR they have terrible durability.

Sauron was incredibly weak and in hiding in Dol Guldor while looking for the One Ring when Gandalf found out that the necromancer was Sauron in disguise. Freaking Aunt May could probably have driven him out in the state that he was.

Not only were the ring-wraith's not very tough and completely featless, they actively fear light and fire. I don't remember this even happening but if it did it would be no more a feat than a preacher driving off a vampire with a cross.

The entire scene you mention about Theoden in the book is complete bull, and further demonstrates that all you know about LoTR comes from the movies. The same with your mention of him charging Glamdring.

Oh and goblins are really tough to kill amirite?!

Seriously, feel free to try again.

@ShootingNova said:

@Baldy: Why would I be trolling? What have I said that is false?

This -> "Gandalf is on the level of beings who have had continents thrown on them and taken almost no injury."

This -> "He blocks spells effortlessly."

This -> "Gandalf destroys entire armies with a single spell"

This -> "Shield of the Istari can protect him from nearly anything"

This -> "Gandalf has fought enemies of far higher level and defeated them"

This -> "throw her thousands of feet"

This -> "All Gandalf has to do is speak the word of the Istari and her wand is shattered"

This -> "Gandalf is basically a lesser god"

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kingkronos

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#53  Edited By kingkronos

@Baldy: Saruman has feats: He displayed weather manipulation, can create large fireballs, telekinesis.(these are from the movies)

How the heck does Lotr have terrible durability when Sauron ignored a continent falling on him?

Seriously dude, what's your problem with Lotr?

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Jezer

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#54  Edited By Jezer

@The_Thunderer said:

@Jezer: Jadis is good with magic and has got one good feat, but she hasn't replicated that again ( maybe cos she can't? ) whereas Gandalf has consistently had a number of impressive feats. Furthermore Gandalf has infinetely more experience than her because he was created practically as reality was so is pretty damn old. Gandalf could also call in outside help, he has got much, much more powerful friends than jadis. Should Jadis attempt to engage him in magical combat he ought to be able to shrug off any of her spells without too much problem, and in physical combat Jadis has even less of a chance.

@ShootingNova: I'm with you on this one.

It doesn't matter if she hasn't replicated, because we don't know the status of her powers in whatever Universe the Earth in this battle is. Therefore, there's no reason to assume it is nerfed. This isn't a matter of "inconsistency". Like I said, its the same principle that applies to the Flash.

Ignoring the fact that experience doesn't matter much, how much do you know about Narnia? Jadis was there when Aslan was first creating Narnia in the dark void of an empty Universe(and tried to attack him lol, technically making her Narnia's first evil), she was there when he sung light into existence. Jadis also has the experience of traveling several universes. Jadis was the one who killed Aslan using Deep Magic from the beginning of Narnia. Under your own explanation of why Gandalf has more experience - Jadis has done the same and more. But, like I said earlier, arguing from experience is not concrete or valid.

Furthermore, I also don't know why you're mentioning outside help. Not only does this battle not feature outside help, but if Gandalf needs to call outside help, that would show he can't take Jadis himself. I'm not even sure if she can't beat his "much more powerful" friends, since she's managed to kill God, as well as killing off a previous universe, but its beside the point.

I can't really comment on whether Gandalf can shrug off her spells as easily as you are claiming. He definitely can't in the movie versions, which is the versions featured in this thread. He definitely can't shrug off her universal life killing spell from the book versions. But, I'm moderately sure you're arguing this without knowing the full extent of what the White Witch can do, anyways. I barely remember the specifics of what she could do in the books(other than making it Winter forever, freezing people)

I forget what physical combat feats Jadis has in the book, but she was fighting off warriors and beasts in the movie. Her movie combat feats are definitely better than Gandalf's. I wouldn't be surprised if her books feats were as well, since you've been claiming things without a hint of explanation.

Going by movies: Jadis fights better than Gandalf. Jadis has more impressive magic than Gandalf, as the magic that Gandalf used in the movies was moderately unimpressive. Though, Gandalf did show telekinesis which may work. Not sure who would win in the movie version simply because Gandalf displayed telekinesis.

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Baldy

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#55  Edited By Baldy

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: Saruman has feats: He displayed weather manipulation, can create large fireballs, telekinesis.(these are from the movies)

How the heck does Lotr have terrible durability when Sauron ignored a continent falling on him?

Seriously dude, what's your problem with Lotr?

Movies are non-canonical.

When did a continent fall on Sauron?

I don't have a problem with LoTR, it has great characters. I have a problem with 'fans' of the series that pretend that everything in LoTR is a cosmic threat and have no idea what the characters are capable of. Most of the people that wander into threads like these and say 'Gandalf stomps' don't know a thing about Gandalf.

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kingkronos

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#56  Edited By kingkronos

@Baldy: Look man, it's obvious that you know much about Lotr since you read the books. Because of that you should know that earth is even more important than the cosmoc, right? Whoever controls earth. controls the universe. Ea is not important as earth. All the Valar put their power to shape Arda. It doesn't matter if it's a cosmic threat or not. As you noticed, Morgoth can destroy the sun but not earth, it was only quoted that his grond can shatter it. So calling it a cosmic threat or not is irrelevant. Generally, in Lotr the center of importance is Arda and that is what matters.

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Baldy

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#57  Edited By Baldy

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: Look man, it's obvious that you know much about Lotr since you read the books. Because of that you should know that earth is even more important than the cosmoc, right? Whoever controls earth. controls the universe. Ea is not important as earth. All the Valar put their power to shape Arda. It doesn't matter if it's a cosmic threat or not. As you noticed, Morgoth can destroy the sun but not earth, it was only quoted that his grond can shatter it. So calling it a cosmic threat or not is irrelevant. Generally, in Lotr the center of importance is Arda and that is what matters.

The fact that the LoTR universe is so small and thus the peices of the universe therefore have 'more importance' is completely irrelevant to the power of the characters. If I existed in a universe that consisted of an empty room with a rock in it, you could claim that the rock is the third most important thing in the universe. If I then lifted that rock I couldn't then claim to be stronger than Superman, just because I lifted the 'third most important thing in the universe'.

That is the logic you're trying to use and it doesn't work.

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kingkronos

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#58  Edited By kingkronos

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: Look man, it's obvious that you know much about Lotr since you read the books. Because of that you should know that earth is even more important than the cosmoc, right? Whoever controls earth. controls the universe. Ea is not important as earth. All the Valar put their power to shape Arda. It doesn't matter if it's a cosmic threat or not. As you noticed, Morgoth can destroy the sun but not earth, it was only quoted that his grond can shatter it. So calling it a cosmic threat or not is irrelevant. Generally, in Lotr the center of importance is Arda and that is what matters.

The fact that the LoTR universe is so small and thus the peices of the universe therefore have 'more importance' is completely irrelevant to the power of the characters. If I existed in a universe that consisted of an empty room with a rock in it, you could claim that the rock is the third most important thing in the universe. If I then lifted that rock I couldn't then claim to be stronger than Superman, just because I lifted the 'third most important thing in the universe'.

That is the logic you're trying to use and it doesn't work.

What? Who said anything about Lotr universe being small? It's as big as it gets. The difference is, that Earth is the most important figure. Which btw contains Valar and Maia, etc..... So why are you bring the rock thing, I don't know? Cos Arda has pretty powerful beings. And the Valar would not have a problem with controlling Ea, but will have a problem controlling Arda. That is because it is more important.

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The_Thunderer

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#59  Edited By The_Thunderer

@Baldy: Are you for real?

  1. Balrog didn't kick his ass, balrog lost... Good work.
  2. Saruman has a lot of feats, if you don't know them doesn't make them non-existent.
  3. He summoned the eagles to rescue him from Orthanc (using the moth) he summoned eagles to take him to Lorien after his resserection, he summoned eagles to help him rescue Frodo at mount doom. Gwaihir is in Gandalf's debt cos Gandalf saved him from a poisoned arrow. Good work again.
  4. Seriously dude, trolls do not have terrible durability, read the books.
  5. Really, Aunt May? Could have driven out the most powerful force in ME? Yeah sounds about right..
  6. Charging Glamdring is from movie, but is a feat he can do evidently..
  7. I would love to see Gladis use lightning to kill Goblins.

YOU READ THE BOOKS, evidently if you read anything I have written/edited on this site you would realise I have read ALL the books extensively. Don't annoy me/troll.

BTW ShootingNova was generally tue, some exaggerations but mostly legit stuff so don't be a hypocrite.

@Jezer said:

Furthermore, I also don't know why you're mentioning outside help. Not only does this battle not feature outside help, but if Gandalf needs to call outside help, that would show he can't take Jadis himself. I'm not even sure if she can't beat his "much more powerful" friends, since she's managed to kill God, as well as killing off a previous universe, but its beside the point.

I can't really comment on whether Gandalf can shrug off her spells as easily as you are claiming. He definitely can't in the movie versions, which is the versions featured in this thread. He definitely can't shrug off her universal life killing spell from the book versions. But, I'm moderately sure you're arguing this without knowing the full extent of what the White Witch can do, anyways. I barely remember the specifics of what she could do in the books(other than making it Winter forever, freezing people)

I forget what physical combat feats Jadis has in the book, but she was fighting off warriors and beasts in the movie. Her movie combat feats are definitely better than Gandalf's. I wouldn't be surprised if her books feats were as well, since you've been claiming things without a hint of explanation.

Going by movies: Jadis fights better than Gandalf. Jadis has more impressive magic than Gandalf, as the magic that Gandalf used in the movies was moderately unimpressive. Though, Gandalf did show telekinesis which may work. Not sure who would win in the movie version simply because Gandalf displayed telekinesis.

Give me something that proves she fights better than Gandalf. Give me proof she can replicate her planet-wide killing spell. Alsowith regards to her being the "first evil" Melkor was LOTRs first evil and he repeatedly is beaten up by elves. Gandalf has many magical abilities most notoriously fire (thanks partly to his ring) which means that he is going to be adept at fighting the ice-queen.

Please give me FEATS

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The_Thunderer

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#60  Edited By The_Thunderer

@BlueLantern1995 said:

If this is book versions Gandalf wins hands down...if movies Jadis wins after a very long fight.

What feats has Jadis got?

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Jezer

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#61  Edited By Jezer

@The_Thunderer said:

@Baldy: Are you for real?

  1. Balrog didn't kick his ass, balrog lost... Good work.
  2. Saruman has a lot of feats, if you don't know them doesn't make them non-existent.
  3. He summoned the eagles to rescue him from Orthanc (using the moth) he summoned eagles to take him to Lorien after his resserection, he summoned eagles to help him rescue Frodo at mount doom. Gwaihir is in Gandalf's debt cos Gandalf saved him from a poisoned arrow. Good work again.
  4. Seriously dude, trolls do not have terrible durability, read the books.
  5. Really, Aunt May? Could have driven out the most powerful force in ME? Yeah sounds about right..
  6. Charging Glamdring is from movie, but is a feat he can do evidently..
  7. I would love to see Gladis use lightning to kill Goblins.

YOU READ THE BOOKS, evidently if you read anything I have written/edited on this site you would realise I have read ALL the books extensively. Don't annoy me/troll.

BTW ShootingNova was generally tue, some exaggerations but mostly legit stuff so don't be a hypocrite.

@Jezer said:

Furthermore, I also don't know why you're mentioning outside help. Not only does this battle not feature outside help, but if Gandalf needs to call outside help, that would show he can't take Jadis himself. I'm not even sure if she can't beat his "much more powerful" friends, since she's managed to kill God, as well as killing off a previous universe, but its beside the point.

I can't really comment on whether Gandalf can shrug off her spells as easily as you are claiming. He definitely can't in the movie versions, which is the versions featured in this thread. He definitely can't shrug off her universal life killing spell from the book versions. But, I'm moderately sure you're arguing this without knowing the full extent of what the White Witch can do, anyways. I barely remember the specifics of what she could do in the books(other than making it Winter forever, freezing people)

I forget what physical combat feats Jadis has in the book, but she was fighting off warriors and beasts in the movie. Her movie combat feats are definitely better than Gandalf's. I wouldn't be surprised if her books feats were as well, since you've been claiming things without a hint of explanation.

Going by movies: Jadis fights better than Gandalf. Jadis has more impressive magic than Gandalf, as the magic that Gandalf used in the movies was moderately unimpressive. Though, Gandalf did show telekinesis which may work. Not sure who would win in the movie version simply because Gandalf displayed telekinesis.

Give me something that proves she fights better than Gandalf. Give me proof she can replicate her planet-wide killing spell. Alsowith regards to her being the "first evil" Melkor was LOTRs first evil and he repeatedly is beaten up by elves. Gandalf has many magical abilities most notoriously fire (thanks partly to his ring) which means that he is going to be adept at fighting the ice-queen.

Please give me FEATS

How about this, I'm not gonna do all the work for you. Here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQ8pvZNJM0

You can see the White Witch fighting in action in that video. You see her killing flying Gryffins. You see her reacting to a beast attempting to surprise attack her and jump on her from above. Now, post a video of Gandalf fighting. And explain to me how he shows better speed/skill/ect. Okay?

Give me something that proves Gandalf's magic works on Earth. Either you acknowledge that we don't know if either of there powers work normally in the universe of this battle, or allow it for the sake of the battle. Your choice.

Let me get this straight, you claimed that Gandalf's experience was more since he was around since the beginning of the creation of the LOTR world, as if it was important - and now you're refuting it? If experience matters so much and being around since the beginning of the creation of the world, why were the Elf able to repeatedly beat Melkor, the first evil? So you're acknowledging that experience does not matter at all. Good. (I still dont know why you brought it up in your first post)

That doesn't mean much unless Gandalf has done something wildly impressive with his fire magic. Again, you seem to be arguing from a lack of knowledge on the book. The difference between me and you is I admit my lack of knowledge, and am pointing out the fact that you shouldnt be making claims about how easily Gandalf can block her spells when you don't know what she can do. And fire doesn't automatically beat Ice.

But, going back to movie versions: What impressive things did Gandalf do in the movies with fire magic?

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Phylos

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#62  Edited By Phylos

@The_Thunderer:

(9:53) It's not much, but it is A feat.

(4:07 - 4:19)

(4:46 - 4:49)

(6:02 - 7:36)

As movie feats go, I think this is about it.

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Phylos

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#63  Edited By Phylos

@Jezer: Would his fire magic work? in the movie, Jadis easily negated phoenix fire via her own magic.

(if that was a phoenix)

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VercingetorixTheGreat

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@ShootingNova said:

@Jezer: Firstly, Gandalf is on the level of beings who have had continents thrown on them and taken almost no injury.

Gandalf destroys entire armies with a single spell. The Witch got owned in a swordfight and slain by a lion. I have read The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe and I say Gandalf is still more impressive.

She froze Narnia in an endless winter. She didn't kill off everything. In the book her powers were increased. Gandalf has fought demon spirits (Balrogs) and defeated them as the Grey. Now he is even more powerful as the White.

He scares off four/five Nazgul instantly by creating so much light he blinded them.

He blocks spells effortlessly.

By speaking, he has dragged Saruman backwards against the latter's will, and shattered his staff instantly. In the movies he really doesn't show so much power.

Numenor crushing Sauron did a TON of damage to him. It took many years before he was even able to manifest a body.

When has gandalf destroyed entire armies?

It wasn't just SOME lion he was a representation of Jesus an omnipotent being

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jeanroygrant

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#65  Edited By jeanroygrant

@ShootingNova said:

Gandalf takes it.

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The_Thunderer

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#66  Edited By The_Thunderer

@BlueLantern1995: how about his first appearnce as Gandalf the White he deflects Legolas' arrow and makes aagorn and gimli drop their swords, all silently. Defeating Peter is like Gandalf defeating Frodo, not even slightly impressive. When did he display "crappy swordsmanship" ?

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The_Thunderer

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#67  Edited By The_Thunderer

@Jezer: I didn't say experience was unimportant I said being the first evil was, sorry if it wasn't clear enough. He uses fire a few times in the hobbit albeit primarily to attack wolves. I don't really have a lack of knowledge, so I have nothing to admit. I know a lot about LOTR and a fair amount about Narnia and Jadis (from reading Magicians Nephew and Lion Witch and Wardrobe). Don't know how to embed put i'll give you a link.

Not bad Agility : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KiN-4thC6U

Bit of Magic for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=0Ml94YpDgUI&NR=1

Classic Gandalf feat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywZ5uo_3Y_A

Defeating Arguably the 3 greatest fighters in War of the Ring in 2 secs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYPCua2Lb78

Defeating the most powerful of the istari : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxvf6-_m2oo&feature=related

Happy? :D

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The_Thunderer

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#68  Edited By The_Thunderer

@BlueLantern1995: Non-canon, and you ought to know it.

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Baldy

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#69  Edited By Baldy

@The_Thunderer said:

@Baldy: Are you for real?

  1. Balrog didn't kick his ass, balrog lost... Good work.
  2. Saruman has a lot of feats, if you don't know them doesn't make them non-existent.
  3. He summoned the eagles to rescue him from Orthanc (using the moth) he summoned eagles to take him to Lorien after his resserection, he summoned eagles to help him rescue Frodo at mount doom. Gwaihir is in Gandalf's debt cos Gandalf saved him from a poisoned arrow. Good work again.
  4. Seriously dude, trolls do not have terrible durability, read the books.
  5. Really, Aunt May? Could have driven out the most powerful force in ME? Yeah sounds about right..
  6. Charging Glamdring is from movie, but is a feat he can do evidently..
  7. I would love to see Gladis use lightning to kill Goblins.

YOU READ THE BOOKS, evidently if you read anything I have written/edited on this site you would realise I have read ALL the books extensively. Don't annoy me/troll.

BTW ShootingNova was generally tue, some exaggerations but mostly legit stuff so don't be a hypocrite.

1) Who also died in that fight so hard that his soul was sent beyond time and required the direct intervention of Eru? Oh yeah. Gandalf. Good game.

2) Go ahead and show some decent ones. Also before you start showing movie clips they don't count. Movies arn't canon.

3) Gwaihir was already on his way to Orthanc to bring some recon to Gandalf. Gandalf didn't summon him. It was Gwaihir again that found him after he was resurrected. Please post the page number in which he magically summons eagles to help Frodo. Gwaihir being saved by Gandalf is completely irrelevant.

4) Pippin managed to kill one of the uber-trolls in battle, yeah they must be hardcore.

5) I was being sarcastic, obviously. The point is that he was in a massively weak state without the One Ring and actively hiding, driving him out was a non-feat.

6) How many times does it need to be pointed out that the movies arn't canon? If he didn't do it in the books, it can't be assumed he can do it.

7) Yeah he fried a couple greenskins while trying to hide from the horde, if he was really as powerful as you suggest he would have just killed them all.

You obviously havn't read the books. All of your references are from the movies.

No, it was mostly untrue.

Feel free to try again.

@The_Thunderer said:

@BlueLantern1995: Non-canon, and you ought to know it.

All of the clips you posted were non-canon also.

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kingkronos

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#70  Edited By kingkronos

@BlueLantern1995:

Start at 5:30

This is also in the extended addition of the series. So basically, Gandalf can just break Jadis' wand, and deal no damage.

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kingkronos

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#71  Edited By kingkronos

@BlueLantern1995: Perhaps the fact that she is Jadis and never displayed this ability?

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Baldy

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#72  Edited By Baldy

@kingkronos said:

@BlueLantern1995: Perhaps the fact that she is Jadis and never displayed this ability?

To be fair Gandalf didn't either..

"'Behold, I am not Gandalf the Grey, whom you betrayed. I am Gandalf the White, who has returned from death. You have no colour now, and I cast you from the order and from the Council.' He raised his hand, and spoke slowly in a clear cold voice. 'Saruman, your staff is broken.' There was a crack, and the staff split asunder in Saruman's hand, and the head of it fell down at Gandalf's feet."

The reason Saruman's staff broke was because Gandalf effectively stripped him of his rank in the Istari.

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Jezer

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#73  Edited By Jezer

@The_Thunderer said:

@Jezer:

Not bad Agility : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KiN-4thC6U

Bit of Magic for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=0Ml94YpDgUI&NR=1

Classic Gandalf feat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywZ5uo_3Y_A

Defeating Arguably the 3 greatest fighters in War of the Ring in 2 secs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYPCua2Lb78

Defeating the most powerful of the istari : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxvf6-_m2oo&feature=related

Happy? :D

1. Decent agility. However, he doesn't display particularly fast reaction time as he's given ample time to respond to the attacks. And furthermore, his staff outranges them so he's able to hit them before their swords would even be able to reach them. Not to mention, they are the base canon fodder troops.

2. The magic scared off those flying creatures, but didnt actually seem to harm them. Or at least kill them.

3. In the Balrog fight, the magic destroys part of the bridge. Other than that, its moderately unimpressive.

4. Not impressed with him blocking an arrow and thrown axe from people he's blinding with a bright light. They can't even make him out. He uses magic on the sword, but its not that impressive.

5. I skipped through the video, but at what point did Gandalf defeat Sarumen? I just saw Sarumen getting stabbed in the back by a random person and then dying.

In contrast, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQ8pvZNJM0

The White Witch defeats in armed combat an army general(who was mowing down canon fodder when trying to reach her), while having limited mobility due to riding on the back of a carriage. (3:20) She then goes on to kill some flying gryffins.

(At 4:15) A tiger tries to ambush her from on top of a cliff behind her, and she intercepts him- stabbing him mid pounce. That's more agile than Gandalf. Not only does the white witch display more skill and agility and accuracy, but she defeats a more varied sort of opponents with her hand to hand. She kills flying creatures, a centaur, and a tiger.

Thanks for the links.

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Jezer

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#74  Edited By Jezer

@Baldy

The OP clarified her Original Post saying that we're using movie versions, in this battle.

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Baldy

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#75  Edited By Baldy

@Jezer said:

@Baldy

The OP clarified her Original Post saying that we're using movie versions, in this battle.

Oh, it should probably be edited to say that.

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ShootingNova

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#76  Edited By ShootingNova

@Baldy said:

@The_Thunderer said:

@Baldy: Slaying a Balrog. Blocking Saruman's spells without moving or saying anything. Smashing Saruman's staff with a thought. Summoning Eagles to his aid numerous times. Fighting several trolls simultaneously. Aiding the White Council in driving Sauron ( Sauron himself, not just his forces ) out of Dol Guldor. Fighting of all 9 of the nazgul simultaneously on Weathertop. Driving off several nazgul with his blinding light. Braks Saruman's and Grima's hold over Theoden in seconds. He charges his sword (glamdring) with electricity before stabbing the balrog with it ( this enhances the power and damage the blade can inflict ). He has on numerous occasions displayed his ability for magical kinesis. He has shown the ability to use lightning (in the hobbit ) to destroy several goblins at once. He can and has been shown to create an unquenchable fire. He also has the destructive blast move, which he uses a fraction of in destroying the bridge at khazad-dum.

Enough?

How about some Jadis ones?

You forgot to mention that the balrog also kicked his *** so hard that it took the direct intervention of Eru to bring him back.

Saruman has no feats, as such the blocking of his spells is meaningless and there is no reference on the difficulty. Saruman's staff has no known durability feats and I believe the books make no mention of him breaking it with a thought.

When did he summon eagles? Gwaihir showed up and rescued him of his own accord, this comment suggests to me that all you know about LoTR comes from the movies.

Trolls get killed en masse in the Silmarillion, like everything else in LoTR they have terrible durability.

Sauron was incredibly weak and in hiding in Dol Guldor while looking for the One Ring when Gandalf found out that the necromancer was Sauron in disguise. Freaking Aunt May could probably have driven him out in the state that he was.

Not only were the ring-wraith's not very tough and completely featless, they actively fear light and fire. I don't remember this even happening but if it did it would be no more a feat than a preacher driving off a vampire with a cross.

The entire scene you mention about Theoden in the book is complete bull, and further demonstrates that all you know about LoTR comes from the movies. The same with your mention of him charging Glamdring.

Oh and goblins are really tough to kill amirite?!

Seriously, feel free to try again.

@ShootingNova said:

@Baldy: Why would I be trolling? What have I said that is false?

This -> "Gandalf is on the level of beings who have had continents thrown on them and taken almost no injury."

This -> "He blocks spells effortlessly."

This -> "Gandalf destroys entire armies with a single spell"

This -> "Shield of the Istari can protect him from nearly anything"

This -> "Gandalf has fought enemies of far higher level and defeated them"

This -> "throw her thousands of feet"

This -> "All Gandalf has to do is speak the word of the Istari and her wand is shattered"

This -> "Gandalf is basically a lesser god"

If you count movies as non-canonical, you might want to scrap some things.

Firstly, Gandalf is a Maia. So is Sauron. Sauron had a continent thrown on him and took minor injury.

He blocked Saruman's spell effortlessly.

Whether it can protect him from indirect spells is debatable.

Balrogs are of high level.

Gandalf is a lesser being to a lesser god. Valar are like lesser gods. Maiar are lesser to them.

That's assuming there is a massive pit for her to be thrown into.

Well, upon speaking he destroyed Saruman's staff. But whether he can destroy her wand is debatable.

Balrog never kicked his ass. They both killed each other, Gandalf killing the Balrog directly while he died of his wounds/tireness and what not. I think the fight should be considered a stalemate.

Saruman does have feats.

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ShootingNova

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#77  Edited By ShootingNova

@VercingetorixTheGreat: It was a god. Not exactly omnipotent but perhaps quite close.

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VercingetorixTheGreat

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@ShootingNova: What? Anyway you sayed Numenor crushing Sauron did minor damage.... it did a TON of damage to him

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ShootingNova

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#79  Edited By ShootingNova

@VercingetorixTheGreat: What do you mean what? I meant, it was god then, happy?

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VercingetorixTheGreat

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@ShootingNova: Well if Aslan is God then he is omnipotent... not a bad feat losing to Aslan.

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ShootingNova

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#81  Edited By ShootingNova

@VercingetorixTheGreat: Well, I don't believe in "God", but yes he is supposed to be somewhere along the lines of omnipotence/near-omnipotence.

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VercingetorixTheGreat

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@ShootingNova: He is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent... But I can see where this is going so I agree to disagree

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ShootingNova

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#83  Edited By ShootingNova

@VercingetorixTheGreat: Well you foresaw it incorrectly because I know and agree that God is the big "O"s. But still, Aslan isn't exactly God but still of similar power level. So still, losing to Aslan is not a bad feat is true.

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VercingetorixTheGreat

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@ShootingNova: well since this is movie versions I am gonna say the White Witch wins

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The_Third_of_the_Fallen

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Gandalf kills

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Phylos

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#86  Edited By Phylos

@The_Third_of_the_Fallen said:

Gandalf kills

Elaborate? remember that this is movie versions.

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Valzaan

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Gandalf wins easily. Jadis's only hope is hitting him with her wand - a wand that is very easy to break. On the other hand Gandalf has enough power to strip a being of similar level (Saurman) of all his power.

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HighAccuser

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Movie versions or lore? If movie Gandalf still wins, if Lore he stomps.

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rogueshadow

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#89  Edited By rogueshadow  Moderator

Some serious bollocks in this thread.

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anthp2000

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#90 anthp2000  Moderator

Gabdalf should take it from what I've heard.

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SirDrProfessor

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#91  Edited By SirDrProfessor

Gandalf stomps

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deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99

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Movie, Gandalf should win.

With book feats and full power, Jadis would beat him though.

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Ghetsiscmcvne

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Your wand is broken GG.

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JoseLoayza

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Jadis look like Sun Wukong