@Vance Astro: Has she ever outperformed someone with super speed? Midnighter has blitz speedsters before, not only that he'll know every move she makes before she makes it herself
" @Vance Astro: Has she ever outperformed someone with super speed? Midnighter has blitz speedsters before, not only that he'll know every move she makes before she makes it herself "
I've seen her lift a man of their feet just by running by them.In order for her to outperform a speedster she would have to move at lightspeed though because being a cosmic level character most of her opponents teleport or are FTL.
" @Vance Astro: Has she ever outperformed someone with super speed? Midnighter has blitz speedsters before, not only that he'll know every move she makes before she makes it herself "
I've seen her lift a man of their feet just by running by them.In order for her to outperform a speedster she would have to move at lightspeed though because being a cosmic level character most of her opponents teleport or are FTL. "
Are you talking about Ronan? I just checked my stash and in the next panel she got grabbed by him and taken down by some kind of energy, I don't recall Ronan or any of his Kree buddies have any superhuman speed,especially in combat
It's not just that anyway, Midnighter will be able to stay on step ahed of her, if she tries to make a move, he will know about it in advance.
" @Vance Astro: Has she ever outperformed someone with super speed? Midnighter has blitz speedsters before, not only that he'll know every move she makes before she makes it herself "
I've seen her lift a man of their feet just by running by them.In order for her to outperform a speedster she would have to move at lightspeed though because being a cosmic level character most of her opponents teleport or are FTL. "
Are you talking about Ronan? I just checked my stash and in the next panel she got grabbed by him and taken down by some kind of energy, I don't recall Ronan or any of his Kree buddies have any superhuman speed,especially in combat It's not just that anyway, Midnighter will be able to stay on step ahed of her, if she tries to make a move, he will know about it in advance. "
Spider-Man has super speed and he's never lifted someone off their feat with the force of his speed.Ronan doesn't have super speed.He only tagged her so the fight can be interesting.The panel where she knocks him off his feat shows her running way past where she left him so it doesn't even make sense he tags her in the next panel.He didn't take her out with it either or at all.Also..speaking of getting taken out I've seen class 100's pummel her and not do much damage.What is Midnighter going to do? If his battle calculator gives him thousands of ways to win..what would it calculate if their was no way?
" @Vance Astro: Has she ever outperformed someone with super speed? Midnighter has blitz speedsters before, not only that he'll know every move she makes before she makes it herself "
I've seen her lift a man of their feet just by running by them.In order for her to outperform a speedster she would have to move at lightspeed though because being a cosmic level character most of her opponents teleport or are FTL. "
Are you talking about Ronan? I just checked my stash and in the next panel she got grabbed by him and taken down by some kind of energy, I don't recall Ronan or any of his Kree buddies have any superhuman speed,especially in combat It's not just that anyway, Midnighter will be able to stay on step ahed of her, if she tries to make a move, he will know about it in advance. "
Spider-Man has super speed and he's never lifted someone off their feat with the force of his speed.Ronan doesn't have super speed.He only tagged her so the fight can be interesting.The panel where she knocks him off his feat shows her running way past where she left him so it doesn't even make sense he tags her in the next panel.He didn't take her out with it either or at all.Also..speaking of getting taken out I've seen class 100's pummel her and not do much damage.What is Midnighter going to do? If his battle calculator gives him thousands of ways to win..what would it calculate if their was no way? "
Spider man having super speed is questionable also, when I think of super speed I think characters like Quicksilver and Speed Demon, that sort of speed. Ronan doesn't have super speed but he was still able to grab her and send an energy shock through her body. That doesn;t sound like an interesting fight to me especially since Gamora was tooling him for most of the fight. Even before that instance Ronan landed some hits on her
I won't deny that she showed some superhuman speed in that fight, fair enough but someone else already pointed out that Midnighter has more and arguably better speed feats
As far as the battle computer, it plays out every possible scenario a battle can have, Midnighter would know what to do, what to avoid, and what she plans to do, and as far as harming her goes Midnighter has harmed class 100 bricks before, and from what I've seen her regeneration isn't good enough to counter all the damage he would cause, Midnighter has regeneration also although I don't think he can tank her hits for very long, the thing is though, he doesnt have to
After seeing Midnight snap the "Apollo-lite" chick's neck by forcefully grabbing her, I'm pretty sure Midnight's strong enough to hurt Gamora H2H, which is all he needs to win a fight.
@Vance Astro: To be honest? I have no idea, but he grabbed her in the next panel and grabbed her from behind so my guess, he got down really fast and was able to tag her
Spider-Man has super speed and he's never lifted someone off their feat with the force of his speed.Ronan doesn't have super speed.He only tagged her so the fight can be interesting.The panel where she knocks him off his feat shows her running way past where she left him so it doesn't even make sense he tags her in the next panel.He didn't take her out with it either or at all.Also..speaking of getting taken out I've seen class 100's pummel her and not do much damage.What is Midnighter going to do? If his battle calculator gives him thousands of ways to win..what would it calculate if their was no way? "
Just curious, why is that then when Ronan is able to take her on in battle, it's ONLY so the fight is interesting, but when she's able to knock him in the air with her speed, that's 100% legitimate?
Spider-Man has super speed and he's never lifted someone off their feat with the force of his speed.Ronan doesn't have super speed.He only tagged her so the fight can be interesting.The panel where she knocks him off his feat shows her running way past where she left him so it doesn't even make sense he tags her in the next panel.He didn't take her out with it either or at all.Also..speaking of getting taken out I've seen class 100's pummel her and not do much damage.What is Midnighter going to do? If his battle calculator gives him thousands of ways to win..what would it calculate if their was no way? "
Just curious, why is that then when Ronan is able to take her on in battle, it's ONLY so the fight is interesting, but when she's able to knock him in the air with her speed, that's 100% legitimate? "
Because Ronan is a sub-par combatant.I don't know what her speed level is but I know for a fact that things she's done in combat before make her fight with Ronan look bogus.
Because Ronan is a sub-par combatant.I don't know what her speed level is but I know for a fact that things she's done in combat before make her fight with Ronan look bogus. "
Why exactly is he a "sub-par" combatant? He's a vet of pretty much every cosmic conflict and on his own he's taken on Black Bolt, Nova, Ravenous, the F4, Thor, Ms. Marvel, Genis-vell, and whole armies. In his armor he's superior to her in nearly every way As for her speed as it's being talked about here, I don't really think there's anything to show that she's as fast as is being claimed. Looking at their fight, they exchange multiple blows and Ronan never once attempts to hit her and misses. She's fast, definitely faster than him, but she doesn't demonstrate speed that's totally out of his range. GIven that, it seems more likely that the image being passed around is of her running at him and sending him into the air, not running past him and carrying him in her wake. Because otherwise you have to explain how Ronan is fast enough to keep up with her and strong enough to take her direct attacks and not be sent flying, but her movement speed is suddenly so great (in only one instance) that she can send him flying without touching him.
I don't know how to quantify Gamora. Her strength and durability don't seem to be at a consistent level. How she deals with human level fighters and where Marvel puts her strength at suggests she's more Spider-Man level in that department, but then there are some instances that have her fighitng characters that should be out of her league. Her speed likewise doesn't seem to be that great in the majority of her appearances, but there are a couple that have it be much higher (and rankings support the higher measure in this area). If you use all her high end feats she's probably out of Midnighter's league. It could be though that her fighting ability and speed allow her to not look out of place in fights against physically superior opponents. I could buy that. In that case the fight would Midnighter would be more even.
Because Ronan is a sub-par combatant.I don't know what her speed level is but I know for a fact that things she's done in combat before make her fight with Ronan look bogus. "
Why exactly is he a "sub-par" combatant? He's a vet of pretty much every cosmic conflict and on his own he's taken on Black Bolt, Nova, Ravenous, the F4, Thor, Ms. Marvel, Genis-vell, and whole armies. In his armor he's superior to her in nearly every way As for her speed as it's being talked about here, I don't really think there's anything to show that she's as fast as is being claimed. Looking at their fight, they exchange multiple blows and Ronan never once attempts to hit her and misses. She's fast, definitely faster than him, but she doesn't demonstrate speed that's totally out of his range. GIven that, it seems more likely that the image being passed around is of her running at him and sending him into the air, not running past him and carrying him in her wake. Because otherwise you have to explain how Ronan is fast enough to keep up with her and strong enough to take her direct attacks and not be sent flying, but her movement speed is suddenly so great (in only one instance) that she can send him flying without touching him. I don't know how to quantify Gamora. Her strength and durability don't seem to be at a consistent level. How she deals with human level fighters and where Marvel puts her strength at suggests she's more Spider-Man level in that department, but then there are some instances that have her fighitng characters that should be out of her league. Her speed likewise doesn't seem to be that great in the majority of her appearances, but there are a couple that have it be much higher (and rankings support the higher measure in this area). If you use all her high end feats she's probably out of Midnighter's league. It could be though that her fighting ability and speed allow her to not look out of place in fights against physically superior opponents. I could buy that. In that case the fight would Midnighter would be more even. "
Gamora is a superior hand to hand combatant by miles.The swiftness of her taking him out isn't my beef though.The whole one panel being nowhere near her and then on the next page he's grabbing her,doesn't make any sense.There was no panel in between explaining how they got to that point.
Gamora is a superior hand to hand combatant by miles.The swiftness of her taking him out isn't my beef though.The whole one panel being nowhere near her and then on the next page he's grabbing her,doesn't make any sense.There was no panel in between explaining how they got to that point. "
I don't know if Gamora is so much better for certain (though I left the option for it, it's why I said he's better than her in "nearly" every way). Aside from handbooks ranking them the same, I feel like Gamora is a lot of hype. Now, I haven't seen a lot of her older stuff aside from what's in respect threads (which, by their nature only showcase the good side of a character) so maybe it's on me to find out, but what I've seen of her since Annihilation hasn't shown her to be the best fighter ever or anything. She fights a lot of people but side by side with Drax and the the other GotG, she doesn't do a whole lot better. She get's talked up a lot by people but half the time I hear "Gamora was trained by Thanos" and not only is that not really that impressive to me since I've never considered him a master martial artist, but I also hear support of his skill that's along the lines of "Thanos was the one that trained Gamora". That kind of circular logic doesn't mean a lot.
Why doesn't it make sense that he can close a distance quickly when she's cocky, looking the other way, and not thinking he can touch her?
Gamora is a superior hand to hand combatant by miles.The swiftness of her taking him out isn't my beef though.The whole one panel being nowhere near her and then on the next page he's grabbing her,doesn't make any sense.There was no panel in between explaining how they got to that point. "
I don't know if Gamora is so much better for certain (though I left the option for it, it's why I said he's better than her in "nearly" every way). Aside from handbooks ranking them the same, I feel like Gamora is a lot of hype. Now, I haven't seen a lot of her older stuff aside from what's in respect threads (which, by their nature only showcase the good side of a character) so maybe it's on me to find out, but what I've seen of her since Annihilation hasn't shown her to be the best fighter ever or anything. She fights a lot of people but side by side with Drax and the the other GotG, she doesn't do a whole lot better. She get's talked up a lot by people but half the time I hear "Gamora was trained by Thanos" and not only is that not really that impressive to me since I've never considered him a master martial artist, but I also hear support of his skill that's along the lines of "Thanos was the one that trained Gamora". That kind of circular logic doesn't mean a lot. Why doesn't it make sense that he can close a distance quickly when she's cocky, looking the other way, and not thinking he can touch her? "
Where have you seen some credible fighting skill feats for Ronan? Gamora has plenty.I've seen nothing impressive from Ronan at all.Thanos trained Gamora but IIRC she was trained on other planets as well.She doesn't have many skill feats from Annihilation and on but there aren't many people she faces that her skill level can be compared to.I know skill can be defined without it but Earth heroes are easier to gauge as far as skill level because there is alot of talented fighters on the planet to compare to.When it comes to outer space oriented characters as far as fighting skill all you really have is Gamora,Mantis,Drax,Karnak,and Star-Lord just about everyone else is mediocre based on feats.The New handbook puts Gladiator at a level 6 but when has he ever shown any fighting skill? Anyway her fighting skill aside when have you ever seen characters in a fight and the distance is closed by means they don't present to you? If Ronan did something to close the distance why wasn't it shown at least partially? If Hulk is fighting someone and sends them flying with a punch..where ever they land is where the next attack starts from..they aren't then just out of nowhere back in close range with no showing of how they got to that point.The super speed part of the scan is my only concern.Like I said..I don't know her speed level but that's the only display of speed i've ever seen for her.Even the Annihilation Bios seem unclear on what she is capable of.
So you're saying that it's not legitimate for Ronan to keep up with Gamora in a fight solely because she has more skill? I would say that his superior physical abilities allow him to keep up with her even if she has greater skill, and that's what the fight showed. He didn't out perform her with cool looking stances, he was strong and fast and smashed her around and then used his weapon. For you to say that when Gamora does something it's correct but when Ronan matches her it's just for show simply because she's a better fighter even though he's superior physically, doesn't ring true to me.
As for their skill level though, the excuses you use for Gamora not having impressive showings for years can easily be applied to Ronan. You could say that there aren't many people that require Ronan to use his skill (especially since he uses his weapon). You listed off other cosmic fighters and they're all on Gamora's team (with the mediocre fighters) and they all look the same. If she's rubbing shoulders with good fighters and has bad fighters to compare to, she should be showing her skill, wouldn't you agree?
I'm not entirely sure why it matters how he got there. He could have flown, he could have teleported, he could have jumped (like gamora did and they just didnt't to waste a panel on a second jump right after the first), perspective could be a weakpoint for this artist and Ronan could have been a lot closer when he was thrown in the air or freezing her in place from further off before getting closer in the panel that follows. Unless you're going to say that he was unable ot grab her (which wouldn't mesh with his ability to do so a couple times earlier), then why does it matter?
" So you're saying that it's not legitimate for Ronan to keep up with Gamora in a fight solely because she has more skill? I would say that his superior physical abilities allow him to keep up with her even if she has greater skill, and that's what the fight showed. He didn't out perform her with cool looking stances, he was strong and fast and smashed her around and then used his weapon. For you to say that when Gamora does something it's correct but when Ronan matches her it's just for show simply because she's a better fighter even though he's superior physically, doesn't ring true to me. As for their skill level though, the excuses you use for Gamora not having impressive showings for years can easily be applied to Ronan. You could say that there aren't many people that require Ronan to use his skill (especially since he uses his weapon). You listed off other cosmic fighters and they're all on Gamora's team (with the mediocre fighters) and they all look the same. If she's rubbing shoulders with good fighters and has bad fighters to compare to, she should be showing her skill, wouldn't you agree? I'm not entirely sure why it matters how he got there. He could have flown, he could have teleported, he could have jumped (like gamora did and they just didnt't to waste a panel on a second jump right after the first), perspective could be a weakpoint for this artist and Ronan could have been a lot closer when he was thrown in the air or freezing her in place from further off before getting closer in the panel that follows. Unless you're going to say that he was unable ot grab her (which wouldn't mesh with his ability to do so a couple times earlier), then why does it matter? "
The fight didn't show that at all.Gamora's showings prior to the Ronan fight were better than that.Not only is she capable of hurting someone of his durability level and beyond but she is also fast and skilled enough to do it.I don't see how any other factors are relevant.What Ronan did against Gamora IMO was just for show because there is no logical explanation for it.To say that superiority in strength and durability make up for a lack of speed and fighting skill doesn't really sit right with me, because in almost every situation similar to that..the exact opposite is shown.I've never seen strength and durability outweigh speed and fighting skill unless those said attributes outweight the others by a huge margin.Gamora has proven in combat that she can handle characters that are out of Ronan's strength and durability range.So with her skill being way beyond his for him to have had any luck in that fight is ridiculous.
As for their skill, Gamora DOES have skill feats in Annihilation.They aren't however, as impressive as what she was doing before then. She was in more events. She was around more characters. She had more of a role and got to showcase more or what she can do.The same thing happened to Mantis.They are on the same team. In the same boat, forced to showcase skill against mediocre combatants. There is nobody outside earth anywhere near their fighting skill level. The difference between Gamora and Ronan is her feats even at her worse are beyond his. Ronan has had enough encounters with earth heroes and good combatants to show SOME skill to have A feat.Yet he really has none.She was even shown to be skillful during the fight in question.
When I said that, what Ronan did was for the plot I referring to someone's inquiry of how he was able to tag her so easily if her speed was as good as I claim and since there is no on panel explanation for it.It's BS to as far as i'm concerned.He could have jumped,flown or teleported but it doesn't say or show him doing it..so for all we know it could be an artist's error.
@Vance Astro: How did the fight not show that he kept up with her through physical superiority and his hammer? She is capable of hurting him, I don't deny that, it was shown in the fight. But because of his superhuman durability strength and speed, he could take her hits, and land his own (again, as was shown) and she didn't walk all over him. He clearly kept up with her and if he didn't do it by skill, he must have done it through his physical abilities and his hammer. It is logical for someone that can stand up to the cosmic forces I listed earlier to be able to take on someone who's a good fighter but is significantly weaker. I'm not saying that Gamora isn't a better fighter, just that from all I've seen of her for years, she's not nearly as amazing as some bill her as. I can accept that she's better, but the way that's supported by people and what I see in comics and handbooks don't bear it out. You're saying that because you don't see it, it didn't happen? This isn't something like Sentry fighting Galactus. Everything surrounding it is right there and it's not a stretch of the imagination to assume "Ronan moved quickly".
" @Vance Astro: Has she ever outperformed someone with super speed? Midnighter has blitz speedsters before, not only that he'll know every move she makes before she makes it herself "
I've seen her lift a man of their feet just by running by them.In order for her to outperform a speedster she would have to move at lightspeed though because being a cosmic level character most of her opponents teleport or are FTL. "
Are you talking about Ronan? I just checked my stash and in the next panel she got grabbed by him and taken down by some kind of energy, I don't recall Ronan or any of his Kree buddies have any superhuman speed,especially in combat It's not just that anyway, Midnighter will be able to stay on step ahed of her, if she tries to make a move, he will know about it in advance. "
Spider-Man has super speed and he's never lifted someone off their feat with the force of his speed.Ronan doesn't have super speed.He only tagged her so the fight can be interesting.The panel where she knocks him off his feat shows her running way past where she left him so it doesn't even make sense he tags her in the next panel.He didn't take her out with it either or at all.Also..speaking of getting taken out I've seen class 100's pummel her and not do much damage.What is Midnighter going to do? If his battle calculator gives him thousands of ways to win..what would it calculate if their was no way? "
Spider man having super speed is questionable also, when I think of super speed I think characters like Quicksilver and Speed Demon, that sort of speed. Ronan doesn't have super speed but he was still able to grab her and send an energy shock through her body. That doesn;t sound like an interesting fight to me especially since Gamora was tooling him for most of the fight. Even before that instance Ronan landed some hits on her
I won't deny that she showed some superhuman speed in that fight, fair enough but someone else already pointed out that Midnighter has more and arguably better speed feats As far as the battle computer, it plays out every possible scenario a battle can have, Midnighter would know what to do, what to avoid, and what she plans to do, and as far as harming her goes Midnighter has harmed class 100 bricks before, and from what I've seen her regeneration isn't good enough to counter all the damage he would cause, Midnighter has regeneration also although I don't think he can tank her hits for very long, the thing is though, he doesnt have to "
just to clarify a point:Midnighter never speedblitzed anyone,what he does(well the computer in hisbrain anyway)is calculate were the opponent won't see him attack and how to reach that point without letting the said opponent the time to react,it is not speed,though the effect is similar.
" just to clarify a point:Midnighter never speedblitzed anyone,what he does(well the computer in hisbrain anyway)is calculate were the opponent won't see him attack and how to reach that point without letting the said opponent the time to react,it is not speed,though the effect is similar. "
Midnighter has super speed though and would need super speed to do what he did against speedsters, even if he would know where to go and what to do he would still need speed to perform these actions
@FinalStar86: no,not necessarily:it depends on his battlecomputer:it can calculate exactly when the speedster will be at a given place early enough for midnighter to take mesures to hit or kill the said speedster.Also yes Midnighter has superspeed in the sense he is faster than any human athlete,but not much more.and yes he would win,but only because of his Battlecomputer,because she does have superior skills and stats.
" @FinalStar86: no,not necessarily:it depends on his battlecomputer:it can calculate exactly when the speedster will be at a given place early enough for midnighter to take mesures to hit or kill the said speedster.Also yes Midnighter has superspeed in the sense he is faster than any human athlete,but not much more.and yes he would win,but only because of his Battlecomputer,because she does have superior skills and stats. "
Actually, yeah, how long does it take someone with superhuman speed to turn their head and look somewhere else? He would still need super speed to stay ahead of the speedsters. The battle computer tells him where to go, his speed allows him to do so.
Midnighter has super speed in the sense that he has...super speed..their really is no down playing that. Even in his first issue he kicked a tank shell back to the tank that fired it. That alone puts his speed above the likes of characters like Spiderman and Gamora.
Midnighter doesn't need his battle computer here, even without it he can this fight simply by blitzing her and punting her head off her shoulders
@FinalStar86: yes it does not take a speedster long to reach a specified point,but if you know EARLY ENOUGH where he will be and what he will do you can counter it even without superspeed(when I use superspeed here i mean above Mach 1).Mightnighter does NOT have superspeed,it just appears to be and react fast because he knows what his ennemies will do before they do.And your tankshell exemple is not a proof:he knew where and when the tankshell would hit way before it was there,long enough for him to take actions,so no he is NOT speedblitzing Gamorra who HAS superspeed;I believe someone even posted a scan of it here.
" @FinalStar86: yes it does not take a speedster long to reach a specified point,but if you know EARLY ENOUGH where he will be and what he will do you can counter it even without superspeed(when I use superspeed here i mean above Mach 1).Mightnighter does NOT have superspeed,it just appears to be and react fast because he knows what his ennemies will do before they do.And your tankshell exemple is not a proof:he knew where and when the tankshell would hit way before it was there,long enough for him to take actions,so no he is NOT speedblitzing Gamorra who HAS superspeed;I believe someone even posted a scan of it here. "
Again, you're mixing up knowing what to do and having the ability to actually do it.
If Midnighter was only slightly above human level of speed he would not be able to pull it off, it doesn't matter if you know what the speedster is going to do, it means nothing if you don't have the speed to stay ahead.
1. Midnighter does have super speed, you must have not read many of his comics, his speed is beyond reaction time and in movement also, kicking a tank shell back and blitzing speedsters takes more then fast reeflexes and a battle computer.
Actually it is proof, because even if he knew where the tankshell was going to hit he would still need speed to jump up and actually kick it back.
Again, you're confusing reflexes and premonitions with actual movement, Battle Computer has nothing to do with movement speed, Midnighter has shown superspeed with movement
Yes he will blitz Gamora because she has shown one instance of supposed super speed and Ronan grabbed her in the very next panel and shocked her. I was the one who posted the scan of that.
So yes, even without his battle computer MN can end this fight in mere seconds, Gamora is too slow to keep up and can't avoid getting her skull punted off..
" @Vance Astro: How did the fight not show that he kept up with her through physical superiority and his hammer? She is capable of hurting him, I don't deny that, it was shown in the fight. But because of his superhuman durability strength and speed, he could take her hits, and land his own (again, as was shown) and she didn't walk all over him. He clearly kept up with her and if he didn't do it by skill, he must have done it through his physical abilities and his hammer. It is logical for someone that can stand up to the cosmic forces I listed earlier to be able to take on someone who's a good fighter but is significantly weaker. I'm not saying that Gamora isn't a better fighter, just that from all I've seen of her for years, she's not nearly as amazing as some bill her as. I can accept that she's better, but the way that's supported by people and what I see in comics and handbooks don't bear it out. You're saying that because you don't see it, it didn't happen? This isn't something like Sentry fighting Galactus. Everything surrounding it is right there and it's not a stretch of the imagination to assume "Ronan moved quickly". "
I'm aware that you're not saying that Gamora isn't the better fighter but Ronan isn't even comparable at all.What she has shown against other characters suggests that Ronan shouldn't have long for the period of time he did. Whatever happened between the time Gamora sent Ronan into the air and the time he attacked her wasn't shown or mentioned.Therefore it's an artist error as far as i'm concerned.Gamora is faster than Ronan so for him to be able to counter that quickly would surely call for an explanation or at least some recognition from Gamora herself.Not explaining how he got to that point is a big chunk to leave out.
" just to clarify a point:Midnighter never speedblitzed anyone,what he does(well the computer in hisbrain anyway)is calculate were the opponent won't see him attack and how to reach that point without letting the said opponent the time to react,it is not speed,though the effect is similar. "
I don't agree. His body must move fast to perform some of the feats he has performed, he can't just be moving before someone every time. If he knows where one bullet is going and gets out of the way, he wouldn't really need superhuman speed. But if several bullets are fired at high velocities and instead of getting out of the way he blocks one, then another, then another, then another, he needs very high speeds to reposition and move his hands to counter each one in turn. The speed at which he moves to get from one bullet to the next would have to be superhuman. If he tells a character that's paying full attention to him that he's going to kill them before they can react and he's standing right in front of them one moment and the next they're broken and dead on the ground, he needed speed to cripple them faster than they could react. Those are just a couple examples of him demonstrating legit speed. The best one to counter your example though would be when he faced Impetus (a speedster) because Jackson King had taken his combat computer down before that fight. Midnighter was able to out-react him (after a point was made to show that other fast characters couldn't out-react him and that his mind worked faster than he moved) without his computer so he must have had the physical speed to do so. Knowing what the enemy will do before they do it can give the appearance of speed when it's not there, but Midnighter also has speed and it's been shown.
" just to clarify a point:Midnighter never speedblitzed anyone,what he does(well the computer in hisbrain anyway)is calculate were the opponent won't see him attack and how to reach that point without letting the said opponent the time to react,it is not speed,though the effect is similar. "
I don't agree. His body must move fast to perform some of the feats he has performed, he can't just be moving before someone every time. If he knows where one bullet is going and gets out of the way, he wouldn't really need superhuman speed. But if several bullets are fired at high velocities and instead of getting out of the way he blocks one, then another, then another, then another, he needs very high speeds to reposition and move his hands to counter each one in turn. The speed at which he moves to get from one bullet to the next would have to be superhuman. If he tells a character that's paying full attention to him that he's going to kill them before they can react and he's standing right in front of them one moment and the next they're broken and dead on the ground, he needed speed to cripple them faster than they could react. Those are just a couple examples of him demonstrating legit speed. The best one to counter your example though would be when he faced Impetus (a speedster) because Jackson King had taken his combat computer down before that fight. Midnighter was able to out-react him (after a point was made to show that other fast characters couldn't out-react him and that his mind worked faster than he moved) without his computer so he must have had the physical speed to do so. Knowing what the enemy will do before they do it can give the appearance of speed when it's not there, but Midnighter also has speed and it's been shown. "
@FinalStar86: I am not mixing anything,even with only slightly more than peak human reaction time(and in comics it is enough to dodge bullets when you know twhere they come from and when they are fired)is more than enough to do it even with high end speedsters when you know what they will do long enough before.So no it does not take more than fast reflexes and a battle computer telling you what and when to do something to counter super speedsters.I own and have rread MOST of the midnighter's apparences in comics,from Ellis' stormwatch to World's end.So no,no speedblitzing Gamorra and no winning without the tactical enhancements.
@Maxwell Lord the fourth: Your argument has already been addressed, there were already instances of Midnighter moving at superhuman speeds without his battle computer
So yes, even without BC Gamora gets blitzed and her head goes flying off her shoulders
I'm aware that you're not saying that Gamora isn't the better fighter but Ronan isn't even comparable at all.What she has shown against other characters suggests that Ronan shouldn't have long for the period of time he did. Whatever happened between the time Gamora sent Ronan into the air and the time he attacked her wasn't shown or mentioned.Therefore it's an artist error as far as i'm concerned.Gamora is faster than Ronan so for him to be able to counter that quickly would surely call for an explanation or at least some recognition from Gamora herself.Not explaining how he got to that point is a big chunk to leave out. "
Maybe Gamora would have said something if she weren't getting electrocuted or whatever moments after he grabbed her. I don't see what needs explaining. He's fought people with superhuman speed before and even earlier in the fight he was able to grab her and throw her around, meaning he clearly has enough speed to make contact with her, and there's even a bit of perfectly reasonable CIS on Gamora's part. She's arrogant and totally confident in her abilities (she's bragging throughout the fight) so she could have just not been paying attention because she thought she had won or at least taken him down to not be worried about anything when he surprised her and got his head back in the game and stopped worrying about the other things on his mind (since he had been distracted when she rushed him).
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