Gambit (New Sun) vs. The Flash

New Sun: http://marvel.wikia.com/New_Sun_%28Earth-9921%29

Flash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_%28comics%29

This battle takes place in a city. It's completely random, and it's a fight to the death. Who wins, and use reasoning.

After doing some research on New Son Gambit I gotta say this is one of the toughest battles to make a decision on, id like to see what others will come up with for this before deciding...

Quick thought, does anyone think Gambit's powers will be strong enough to affect powers derived from the Speed Force?

Its a random encounter, Flash rarely just knocks out his opponents with one punch the exact second the fight starts, and read the New Son powers, He has the ability of stopping individuals completely or keeping them from slowing down.

@JediXMan:

I don't see those powers working on Flash, in all honesty

I don't either.

@god_spawn said:

@JediXMan:

I don't see those powers working on Flash, in all honesty

I don't either.

Kinetic energy is motion, so he could effectively stop Flash from moving... The speedforce is nothing but kinetic energy, i would think this version of gambit would control it.

@nickthedevil: you know the whole part of your argument that states that the speed force is part kinetic energy, was exactly my point. New Sun has complete control over that, if he brings things to a stop on a molecular level, that's pretty much taking it to absolute zero. Flash has never shown that amount of control over the speedforce, especially dealing with a foe who doesn't use the speedforce at all.

Than your argument would also depend on which flash you were talking about, wally of course has all the best Flash Feats. I think for the majority of flash battles people just assume it's Wally and not Barry, who is actually the current flash. The thread rule would state that in this battle it's current Flashpoint Barry. But even beyond that point, Flash may control his own body on a molecular level but not other peoples, it would be impossible for Flash to influence anyone who wasn't a DC character because speedforce is exclusively used by DC characters only. But to New Sun, it would just be kinetic energy he could manipulate.

The New Sun can manipulate all he wants, his reflexes are still only slightly above a normal human.

If the New Sun starts in the air(flying), so that Flash can't immediately hit him, then he wins.

If the New Sun starts on the ground, then he gets K.O'd by Flash within the first few nanoseconds.

However, if Flash gives the New Sun time to actually do anything, then Flash won't be able to hurt him, while New Sun could simply explode the planet.

@SirMethos: wouldn't this assume he doesn't start off in his energy form, if he's flying he wouldn't already be in his energy form because this is how he travels? Also if he is in his energy form how exactly is flash going to knock him out?

@god_spawn said:

@JediXMan:

I don't see those powers working on Flash, in all honesty

I don't either.

Neither do I.

All New Son has to do is look at Flash, and the fight is over.

Question. How does he control kinetic energy? Flash moves MUCH faster than thought AND light. How will gambit even get to even prepare himself to do that If flash comes in and breaks his jaw before he can think " aww damn I think thats the flash coming"

I love gambit but I don't see how he can do this. especially with flash's microsecond reaction times.

@FourthDeity said:

Question. How does he control kinetic energy? Flash moves MUCH faster than thought AND light. How will gambit even get to even prepare himself to do that If flash comes in and breaks his jaw before he can think " aww damn I think thats the flash coming"

I love gambit but I don't see how he can do this. especially with flash's microsecond reaction times.

New Son can simply vaporize him with a glance.

@jrock85: Thats the thing.. A glance. flash moves soo much faster than even the keenest senses can predict.seeing flash is out of the question.

@FourthDeity: It stands to reason that both combatants are going to get a good look at each other before they come to blows, and that's all NS needs.

@nickthedevil said:

No he can't. The comments here against Flash are just like other threads in the day: not a full understanding of the Flash. Like Bane said, the Turtle had no effect of The Flash. I see no difference.

New Son can convert matter into to energy--including living organisms. When he does this, his target either vaporizes or explodes. There's really no defense against it.

@jrock85: how fast does it come out? I doubt this happens within microseconds.

@FourthDeity said:

@jrock85: how fast does it come out? I doubt this happens within microseconds.

Its not like Cyclops' optic blast or Superman's heat vision, so you don't actually "see it" when he's placing a charge in your body. From what I've seen it doesn't take him long to do so. Also, considering that there is no prep in this scenario, I don't think Flash would be expecting something like this. You could also argue that no prep heavily favors Flash.

Flash.

@CitizenBane said:

New Son's durability feats? Speed? Stuff like that?

- When he's in his human form, he's vulnerable to physical attacks like punches and kicks. When he's in energy form, physical attacks have little to no effect on him.

- He was shown to be capable of traveling from New York to Iraq in a matter of seconds (which really isn't impressive compared to Flash's speed).

I love threads with the flash, because I hear words like "Pico," "nano," and "Femto," and you don't usually get that outside of school.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Inertia found a way to drain the Speed Force from Flash.

Flash takes this after all, whatever he do he's standing still, in flash's point of view haha

@jrock85: That is true. especially if the first thing it affects is his body.

In this scenario since they both stop in-front of each-other NS deffintley has the edge. So this whole vaporizing thing starts at a simple glance?

Flash threads bring out the Einstein and Newton in everyone. :D

Who says we're behind the japanese? We just apply what we learn in class where it really matters. Comic threads.

#respek

I never read the story, but it says the guy just kind've casually defeats the Phoenix on his wiki. I say he takes the flash.

@FourthDeity said:

So this whole vaporizing thing starts at a simple glance?

Yep.

I'm not the biggest fan of Flash and I might be remembering wrong but I do remember Turtle vs Flash in a comic and I think it was the one that the scans were posted to and as I distinctly remember, Turtle's powers did indeed affect Flash (Flash was still able to move when everyone else was frozen but he wasn't moving at super speed or rather he was but only appeared to be moving at normal speeds.) I also distinctly remember the Turtle stopping him dead in his tracks when he focused his power directly on him and that he was able to send Flash forward against his will. So his powers weren't ineffective against Flash.

On a side note, the speed of thought is not a measured thing and is quite litterally faster than anyone gives it credit for. Are minds are in a constant state of thought and many of them we aren't even conciously aware of their pressence so for me when someone says 'moving at the speed of thought" I'm thinking of teleporting. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

@CitizenBane: Thank you, I didn't really remember the full extent of the issue myself but wasn't Turtle able to send the Flash forward against his will? Do you remember that? I swear that he did and was gloating about not only being able to steal the kinetic energy but give it back? You seem to at least remember it better then me. I also don't remember Flash using super speed in that battle, please correct me if I'm wrong I'm going from memory from years previous, and one could argue that Flash wasn't able to use his super speed in the frozen city because part of his speed was reduced to the point he was only moving casually. That's a bad argument as it can't necessarily be proven so I'm not arguing this, just looking for clarification and trying to recollect what happend as I don't have the comic on hand.

As for the speed of thought it's not relevant to the argument and is just one man's opinion but when I hear the speed of thought, I think of someone who moves as fast as they can think themselves from point a to point b. In this definition then the Speed of Thought is X (Actually this is still true the speed of thought has never effectively been measured.) The word Teleport basically means "Movement through the mind" and translates into in my opinion "Speed of thought" in a race to Mars for instance if you give Flash the ability to run and breath in space, then he still won't reach Mars, even at 10x lightspeed before a teleporter could think themselves to Mars. Usually Teleporters have a distance limit to what they can vector but their vectoring speed is roughly infinite as it takes them the same amount of time to move from point a to point b as it does from point a to point c even if point B is Brooklyn and point C is China. It just seems odd to here the speed of thought referred to as an absolute when it is yet undefined.. Sorry off topic I know. It's just always been something I wanted to say when ever someone uses the speed of thought argument. I know what they mean is "Flash moves faster than you can think" but it's always been one of those things that makes me want to instantly jump in and clarify the speed of thought has never been measured.