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#1 Posted by Nefarious (22869 posts) - - Show Bio

Versions ; Starkiller (FU 2)  vs Count Dooku (Episode 3). 
 
Stipulations: 
 
> Setting ; Kamino. 
.
> Both are in character. 
> Random encounter. 
> Both are armed with their lightsabers.  
> Winner by Death. 
> Both are aware of their surroundings.  



 

 

#2 Posted by The_Roman (3297 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Dooku.

He's far more skilled with the Force and, arguably, a better duellist with a saber.

#3 Posted by othus12 (211 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Roman: you realize starkiller pinned down an imperial star destroyer with the force? he also has a wider variety of skills.....starkiller would beat doku.

look at 3:50

#4 Posted by beautifulrevery (1521 posts) - - Show Bio

@othus12 said:

@The_Roman: you realize starkiller pinned down an imperial star destroyer with the force? he also has a wider variety of skills.....starkiller would beat doku.

look at 3:50

he was just guiding the star destroyer. But I still feel he would beat Dooku simply because it's Galen from FU2 and it's Dooku from Episode 3.

#5 Posted by JediXMan (31265 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Roman said:

and, arguably, a better duellist with a saber.

Not arguably. Definitely. There's no comparison.

Moderator
#6 Posted by ShootingNova (18921 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku stomps in a lightsaber match. Marek is only remotely comparable to Dooku when it comes to Force power.

@othus12 said:

@The_Roman: you realize starkiller pinned down an imperial star destroyer with the force? he also has a wider variety of skills.....starkiller would beat doku.

look at 3:50

He was merely guiding it towards the Junk Cannon, this has been explained untold times.

@The_Roman said:

He's far more skilled with the Force

Indeed. But raw power would be debatable. Dooku does have the advantage in knowledge and skill, of course.

and arguably, a better duellist with a saber.

There is no arguing it. From feats, Dooku plainly stomps Marek into dust in a saber fight.

#7 Posted by solesamurai (591 posts) - - Show Bio

Marek in "theory" could win, but Logically Dooku should put him down. He has more experience, better feats etc.

#8 Posted by ShootingNova (18921 posts) - - Show Bio

@solesamurai said:

Marek in "theory" could win

What are you speaking of?

#9 Posted by cfrehse (1005 posts) - - Show Bio

Starkiller wins easily. He has way more raw power and he beat vader and Palpatine in battle. I pretty sure anikan killed dooku and Palpatine has a lot of skill with the saber. He beat yoda

#10 Posted by ComicStooge (13798 posts) - - Show Bio

@cfrehse said:

Starkiller wins easily. He has way more raw power and he beat vader and Palpatine in battle. I pretty sure anikan killed dooku and Palpatine has a lot of skill with the saber. He beat yoda

Lies. Starkiller beat a disinterested Vader and Palpatine could've slaughtered him easily.

#11 Posted by P0rtal (872 posts) - - Show Bio

It was implied that Galen was stronger than Luke, Palpatine, Yoda and Vader. While it is immensely stupid and I do not consider it to have ever happened ( threw it out of my mind ) Galen is much stronger. He is the worst character I can think of in all of star wars history. Whoever thought up his idea should go break their leg after falling over something, ruining my entire childhood and making Vader look like a pansy. Pfft.

In their stupid Force Unleashed story : Galen > All

In my mind and any real SW fan : Galen doesn't exist, so Dooku auto wins

#12 Posted by Wonderbrezzy (221 posts) - - Show Bio

Didnt Dooku beat  vader as anikin? and Obi wan?

#13 Edited by Freefa11 (2423 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

He was merely guiding it towards the Junk Cannon, this has been explained untold times.

I believe he was probably referring to the part where the SD takes a sudden nose dive in a span of about 2 seconds. I don't think "guiding it" would be enough to explain that, since it clearly wasn't aimed directly at the ground before that.

@ComicStooge said:

Lies. Starkiller beat a disinterested Vader and Palpatine could've slaughtered him easily.

What makes you think Vader was disinterested? I didn't see any indication of that in the game, and from what I recall, the book makes it pretty clear that both of them were going all out in their battle.

I won't argue the point with Palpatine, since even in the game, I felt he probably threw the fight (stupid thing to do, but then, Palpatine takes the phrase "needlessly complicated" to ridiculous levels).

@P0rtal said:

It was implied that Galen was stronger than Luke, Palpatine, Yoda and Vader. While it is immensely stupid and I do not consider it to have ever happened ( threw it out of my mind ) Galen is much stronger. He is the worst character I can think of in all of star wars history. Whoever thought up his idea should go break their leg after falling over something, ruining my entire childhood and making Vader look like a pansy. Pfft.

Sorry, as far as most SW fans are concerned, Jar Jar Binks and Jake Loyd beat Starkiller to the whole "ruined my childhood/destroyed the franchise/we hate Lucas" nonsense by several years, followed closely by Hayden Christensen's Vader. Even before that, a good number of "hardcore" fans already felt the franchise was breaking the moment Greedo shot first, not to mention the various other changes in the "special editions" that various fans reacted to negatively. Hell, some fans thought it just about jumped the shark even as far back as RotJ, when the Ewoks successfully fought off Stormtroopers and took out AT-STs. And then the EU had stuff ages ago like Dark Empire, which already spit all over the ending of RotJ.

Yeah, there was plenty of garbage floating around in SW continuity long before TFU came about, and two of the biggest offenders are even G-canon, so there's no tossing them out.

@Wonderbrezzy said:

Didnt Dooku beat vader as anikin? and Obi wan?

Yes, he beat Padawan Anakin in Episode II, but Anakin beat him later in Episode III (although I think part of this had to do with Dooku's Makashi matching up poorly with Anakin's style).

#14 Posted by Pyrogram (41269 posts) - - Show Bio

@Freefa11: Good point, I loved the style changes though, it made it feel more real.

#15 Posted by RoyHarperBLOW (1500 posts) - - Show Bio

@solesamurai said:

Marek in "theory" could win, but Logically Dooku should put him down. He has more experience, better feats etc.

#16 Posted by G1d3on (96 posts) - - Show Bio

The only realm in which Dooku can be said to have a clear and substantial advantage is lightsaber combat. In the Force, the Count might have superior skill, but if we compare feats, he lags behind in the realm of raw power considerably. TFU2!Starkiller's feat with the Nebulon-B frigate Salvation in the novel (wherein he roots himself to the outer hull and erects a Force shield that resists raindrops striking with the force of thermal detonators and heat and energy on par with the outer layers of a star and then uses the Force to hold the ship together and at the last minute disintegrates half of it [all of this simultaneously]) far exceeds any display of Force power Dooku has ever offered.

#17 Posted by CaptainDoeo (789 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku.

#18 Posted by ShootingNova (18921 posts) - - Show Bio

@Freefa11: Regardless, it would have crashed into the earth eventually, but it was redirected towards the Junk Cannon.

#19 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (901 posts) - - Show Bio

@G1d3on said:

The only realm in which Dooku can be said to have a clear and substantial advantage is lightsaber combat. In the Force, the Count might have superior skill, but if we compare feats, he lags behind in the realm of raw power considerably. TFU2!Starkiller's feat with the Nebulon-B frigate Salvation in the novel (wherein he roots himself to the outer hull and erects a Force shield that resists raindrops striking with the force of thermal detonators and heat and energy on par with the outer layers of a star and then uses the Force to hold the ship together and at the last minute disintegrates half of it [all of this simultaneously]) far exceeds any display of Force power Dooku has ever offered.

#20 Posted by DCsuperman0007 (515 posts) - - Show Bio

dooku he is just far more skilled.

#21 Posted by Hyperlight (6568 posts) - - Show Bio

@G1d3on: i understand what your saying. i would give it to dooku in lightaber combat. I think Galen exerts himself more often than Dooku does and gets the job done. I see Galen winning because he wouldnt expect Galen Marek to go all out initially.

#22 Posted by TheTmac (472 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku lost to anakin in episode 3 anakin became Darth Vader and Starkiller stomped Darth Vader in FU1 and FU2 so Starkiller should win.

#23 Posted by G1d3on (96 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hyperlight said:

@G1d3on: i understand what your saying. i would give it to dooku in lightaber combat. I think Galen exerts himself more often than Dooku does and gets the job done. I see Galen winning because he wouldnt expect Galen Marek to go all out initially.

I'm not saying Marek necessarily wins, but if you compare it feat-to-feat, Dooku is nowhere near his equal in the Force.

#24 Posted by steelhound56 (1074 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku takes this match quite handily.

He such a superior duelist when compared to Marek that it isn't even funny.

Has an impressive command of the Dark Side, and experience will make up for any gap (if one even exists) in raw power Marek may possess.

Is THE master of Makashi, which is specifically tailored for dueling Force users in 1v1 combat.

Dooku 10/10

BTW: Can we please stop bringing up the whole "Marek pulled down a Star Destroyer" thing? He didn't pull it down, he redirected an already crashing Star Destroyer by one iota and almost killed himself doing it.

#25 Posted by Hyperlight (6568 posts) - - Show Bio

@G1d3on said:

@Hyperlight said:

@G1d3on: i understand what your saying. i would give it to dooku in lightaber combat. I think Galen exerts himself more often than Dooku does and gets the job done. I see Galen winning because he wouldnt expect Galen Marek to go all out initially.

I'm not saying Marek necessarily wins, but if you compare it feat-to-feat, Dooku is nowhere near his equal in the Force.

i hear you.... make sense

#26 Posted by ShootingNova (18921 posts) - - Show Bio

@steelhound56: I wouldn't go as far as to say 10/10.

Dooku stomps in saber combat, but in Force combat, it's closer. Dooku wins overall, though Marek might have a small chance of winning overall.

#27 Posted by steelhound56 (1074 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Marek was very "meh" to me in the novels, which I think take precedence over the games. But we can all agree on Dooku being able to wreck Marek in a duel.

Force duel is closer, but I'll give it to Dooku. Dooku possesses more experience with the Force as a whole. Marek has a possibility to win a few matches of an all out Force battle, but I would say Dooku takes a clear majority.

I'll revise my decision on the battle...

Saber Duel: Dooku 10/10. Marek has no chance against Dooku given his mediocre saber skills, whereas Dooku has tons of feats in saber combat that put him far above anything Marek is capable of with a lightsaber.

Force Battle: Dooku 6-7/10. Dooku's advantage in experience is what clinches him the fight here. Knowledge of Force lightning deflection is a huge boon for him against Marek, as well as having some pretty impressive telekinetic abilities (he did lecture on the ability as a Jedi Master).

#28 Posted by ShootingNova (18921 posts) - - Show Bio

@steelhound56: Much better.

#29 Posted by Freefa11 (2423 posts) - - Show Bio

@steelhound56 said:

BTW: Can we please stop bringing up the whole "Marek pulled down a Star Destroyer" thing? He didn't pull it down, he redirected an already crashing Star Destroyer by one iota and almost killed himself doing it.

Actually, for as often as I see this objection raised, I haven't seen much evidence for it. The book doesn't say anything about it already crashing or descending uncontrolled; in fact, the book explicitly states that the SD is aiming itself to pass over him, which means he affected it significantly more than an "iota" in order to make it land in front of him (unless you have an extremely generous definition of the term).

The book also makes it seem that Starkiller was mainly having difficulty bringing the whole thing down in one piece so that it would mainly just destroy the canon, and if he had wanted to simply destroy the SD itself, he could have let it tear itself apart by rolling it if he had wished.

The games, obviously, show him having a fairly dramatic effect on its trajectory.

The graphic novel is the only one where it looks like it may have been crashing anyway, but then from the way the GN is illustrated, it doesn't even make it clear whether or not Galen affected it at all, which the other sources most certainly do.

@steelhound56 said:

Saber Duel: Dooku 10/10. Marek has no chance against Dooku given his mediocre saber skills,

First, I am not actually going to argue that Starkiller is better than Dooku. However, I still don't get why you say the above so casually. I do not see a "mediocre" duelist holding his own against Darth Vader for any length of time, let alone actually getting past his defense. Mediocre to me means the low end of average, at the very best. I don't care how much time he has spent watching Vader or studying his style, a truly mediocre fighter would simply not be able to capitalize on it enough for it to matter, and the book is pretty clear that they were both going all out.

Now while, Galen may not be better than Dooku, he does at least know Juyo. So for someone of his age and training, he's in about as good a position to duel Dooku as anyone is likely to be.

#30 Posted by steelhound56 (1074 posts) - - Show Bio

@Freefa11: He was getting whipped by Vader in a duel. He had to resort to Lightning in order to incapacitate Vader IIRC.

And he may be proficient in Juyo, but that really doesnt put him on a duelist like Dooku's level.

Marek has a chance if this boils down to a Force power battle. Otherwise, he's getting cut to ribbons by Dooku.

#31 Posted by Freefa11 (2423 posts) - - Show Bio

@steelhound56 said:

@Freefa11: He was getting whipped by Vader in a duel. He had to resort to Lightning in order to incapacitate Vader IIRC.

Is there any particular passage you remember that makes it seem one-sided? To me, a few things that stand out are Galen blocking some of Vader's blows "with elegant precision," Galen dancing around Vader's defenses and "testing them to their limits," and also "blocking him blow for blow." It is also made clear that Vader's "intention was lethal," and he "fought brilliantly, never employing anything less than a killing stroke," just so we can be clear that Vader was indeed serious and trying to kill him.

I do not see how a truly mediocre combatant would be able to block Vader blow for blow (let alone with "elegant precision"), nor test Vader's defenses to their limits.

Starkiller does employ Force Lightning at one point to blunt Vader's momentum. Vader counters with force choke. Starkiller counters that with force push. Vader recovers and launches himself back into melee. At that point, Starkiller manages to force Vader onto the defensive, and eventually gets past Vader's defense, striking him across the throat. Vader blocks his next blow, but is then struck twice more, once in the shoulder and once in the thigh. At that point Starkiller switches over to just pummeling Vader with force powers, but the fight was pretty much over by then.

I didn't see any indication that the lightning seriously impaired Vader for the rest of the fight. Even before that, Starkiller was holding his own for a good while, and Starkiller was the only one to land a direct blow, let alone multiple.

I'm not saying he is absolutely better, or that it was easy, but I do not see a mediocre fighter holding up against Vader for any length of time, let alone actually getting past his defense, when Vader is serious about killing him, and to me the scene did not read at all as if Starkiller was getting his ass kicked all over the place until he resorted to frying Vader with a bunch of force lightning.

#33 Posted by MRAChakravartin (69 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Dooku.

He's far more skilled with the Force and, arguably, a better duellist with a saber.

True.. Dooku should take this pretty easily. Marek is overrated and is nowhere near that strong in the force against someone like Dooku, Mace, Yoda, etc..

#34 Posted by ShootingNova (18921 posts) - - Show Bio

No reason for this bump, whatsoever. Dooku slaughterstomps in saber combat and wins in a direct Force battle. This is pretty much a stomp.

@citizenbane @deranged_midget @sc

#35 Posted by Intrepid37 (697 posts) - - Show Bio

Starkiller is more telekinetically powerful. But I agree with the post above.