Galactus vs...

@uberhikari said:

He explained how the process worked and it had very little to do with his own innate power - but you're too busy crying foul to care (which was completely expected). In this situation Surtur was going to supposedly going to destroy the multi-verse; with the death of the Manchester gods that option was no-longer available. I wouldn't have a clue why Surtur would exaggerate his own plans to Loki - that was the general out-line to his plan, filled with a number of plot devices to get it done.

I'm glad your entertained - but you put far too much emphasis on antagonizing the person your debating rather than getting to the point. Feel free to point out where I mentioned Odin can destroy / create multi-verses, tank multi-versal blasts, or is multi-versal himself. I'm failing to see the low-point mention of the Celestial host melting his destroy to slag.

I wasn't trying to make any particular point - the TOAA is the closest fiction can get to an omnipotent being; so let's move on before you get too excited again. You're jumping to conclusions - what I attempted to point out that omnipotence is generally the adjacent tag to Odin's introduction; as in the writers through characters present attempt to emphasis the power of the Odin.

As Fraction puts it for both Odin and Galactus - "God of Gods" or specifically 'omnipotence has it's downsides.' Now before again you get excited - I'm not saying Odin is omnipotent.

It wasn't so much a twist but providing some more recent scans that imply the multi-verse is a product of the Celestial's whims - and any character that can contend with Celestials would fit the bill of your description. It wasn't intended to be taken entirely seriously - but to have fun with your extremely limited perception of omnipotence. Since apparently Odin can kill Celestials - - - who can create multiverses - - - would translate into.... fun times.

Ragnarok is the product of beings superior to Odin in power - or at least influence over events. Odin's always had infinite power - to shorter degree than other characters - sure, but there are plenty of characters in the Marvel Universe with limitless power. Believe me my perception has a lot less to do with Odin (because realistically it wouldn't matter) and more to see how I perceive beings of that kind of power in general. The one being offered to the contrary is simply too stifling for a universe filled with infinitely powerful beings that mold reality to their fancy without breaking a sweat.

Your leniency on omniscience, yet oddly specific bars set omnipotence are still quite a puzzle. If you really wanted to push it nigh-omnipotence being limited to multiversal reality warpers really doesn't make more sense than a universal shaper or realm shaper.

Note: Thor didn't stop Ragnarok - he actually ensured it happened, but rather ended the perpetual cycle of Ragnarok created by TWSAS.

You're using power in two different context - in this sense having infinite power to power the propulsion of your rocket - yet it isn't infinitely powerful. Although to be fair, how i wrote it could lead to confusion. Either way I think it has less to do with not being meant to taken seriously and more to do with writers trying to make sense of all these characters sporting supposedly infinite amounts of power to shape reality, yet still being weaker than other characters on the same boat.

Though while I can appreciate your perception - I just don't see it being simple enough to avoid the confusion associated with a universe filled with God-Beings that shape it to will.

OF Thor and LF Rulk duo

Not sure if I'm hitting the mark here on what you mean and not to be insulting to anyone's particular faith or holy books; but there is a lot of paganism that lives through modern interpretations of religious faith. No matter how you slice a religious parchment - there is always going to be a great deal of mixing of faith / ideas. Take 'the flood' example - it wasn't only told in the bible - there is a lot of pagan myth related to it or really you could break down to 'in the beginning the start to any religious faith really - where somehow we have a division of the cosmos.

It seems like Asgard Space or what dimension he BFRed that blast to had an assortment of worlds - but your right to say 'worlds' was reaching on my part, rather than being more specific to what he did do so far in Fear Itself - albeit it was a completely simple task for him to create said world effortlessly.

I have no idea where you're getting this impression of it being the size of the US continent - as far as I remember of the event it looks more like the beginnings to a rocky world.

For cubed being mention - it's been no doubt a couple of decades - power levels of more prominent characters tend to fluctuate to the better. Not too long ago Odin couldn't even save Beta Ray Bill's life without the Surfer's aid - I honestly don't think it would be much of an issue these days for Odin to repair Bill given he more or less brought back Paris without breaking a sweat.

Although Ragnarok run did like to show a giant Odin molding a world with his hands for kicks; although a lot of parts of Ragnarok liked to blow Odin's involvement with Earth / cosmos out of proportion.

Select Elder Gods give me the impression Odin isn't quite on par with some - though for a lot of them he's likely their superior.

Now I can better understand where you where going with this. Although not sure how the previous Asgardia relates to the one made by Odin - which is a world more or less dedicated to the Asgardian war effort against the Serpent.

The way Surtur seems to describe it implies he's simply releasing that energy stored up within himself there as a conduit to all realities. Although I could see argument for the conduit itself to be a method of amplifying his energies. Not sure if I can get completely behind it, but it makes more sense in terms of how Odin is usually portrayed in terms of power - although how BFRing it into Asgard space relates with any reality seems a bit more up in the air.

At that point it was universal at best - without the conduit it became much more limited. In sense, regardless of either argument being presented the latter is true.

All true points - and I'm not necessarily disagreeing it wasn't Asgardian space (mainly because I'm under the impression it was confirmed somewhere) - just not in my recollection during the event itself.

Cosmic Spiderman already did it.

@isaac_clarke:

He explained how the process worked and it had very little to do with his own innate power - but you're too busy crying foul to care (which was completely expected). In this situation Surtur was going to supposedly going to destroy the multi-verse; with the death of the Manchester gods that option was no-longer available. I wouldn't have a clue why Surtur would exaggerate his own plans to Loki - that was the general out-line to his plan, filled with a number of plot devices to get it done.

I'm glad your entertained - but you put far too much emphasis on antagonizing the person your debating rather than getting to the point. Feel free to point out where I mentioned Odin can destroy / create multi-verses, tank multi-versal blasts, or is multi-versal himself. I'm failing to see the low-point mention of the Celestial host melting his destroy to slag.

My argument was never about Surtur's innate power; I don't know where you got that from. I'm simply saying that I absolutely don't believe that the power Surtur was controlling in any way had the capacity to destroy every universe in the Marvel multiverse. Sorry, I'm simply not buying it. As for Surtur exaggerating his plans...that's kind of what characters in comic books do, especially villains. I have no doubt that Surtur intended to do what he claimed but intent =/= capability. It's really that simple. If you want to claim that the energy was multiversal then the onus is on you to prove it. You actually have to have evidence not just character statements. The energy released never even destroyed a universe, in fact, it was contained in a pocket dimension but you somehow want me to take it at face value that the energy was multiversal? Not happening.

Second, it really annoys me when people try to change their arguments in mid-stream. First you tell me that Odin is "nigh-omnipotent" (all while trying to use omnipotence and nigh-omnipotence interchangeably, which you erroneously accused me of doing), then you tried to tell me that Odin BFR'd multiversal energy into a pocket dimension, and you're also telling me that Odin can kill Celestials (who you admit are multiversal beings) but you want me to believe that you weren't trying to imply Odin was multiversal? Yeah, okay. It's very clear what you were trying to do. I never claimed that you said Odin was multiversal, only that you tried to imply it in an attempt to bolster your argument that Odin is nigh-omnipotent.

I wasn't trying to make any particular point - the TOAA is the closest fiction can get to an omnipotent being; so let's move on before you get too excited again. You're jumping to conclusions - what I attempted to point out that omnipotence is generally the adjacent tag to Odin's introduction; as in the writers through characters present attempt to emphasis the power of the Odin.

As Fraction puts it for both Odin and Galactus - "God of Gods" or specifically 'omnipotence has it's downsides.' Now before again you get excited - I'm not saying Odin is omnipotent.

Wait, what? So now you're writing things not to make a point? Sure... Like I told you before, the fact that the narrator refers to Odin as omnipotent doesn't mean anything. This was the very first thing I wrote to you in my post: what part of this are you not understanding? Moreover, you're contradicting yourself. If you're claiming that the narrator refers to Odin as omnipotent but you're trying to argue that Odin is "nigh-omnipotent," then how does this help your argument? It doesn't; all it does is cause confusion by trying to use distinct phrases interchangeably.

It wasn't so much a twist but providing some more recent scans that imply the multi-verse is a product of the Celestial's whims - and any character that can contend with Celestials would fit the bill of your description. It wasn't intended to be taken entirely seriously - but to have fun with your extremely limited perception of omnipotence. Since apparently Odin can kill Celestials - - - who can create multiverses - - - would translate into.... fun times.

Here we go again. So your argument wasn't meant to be taken "seriously"? So why make it? Why make a flimsy, ridiculous argument about how Odin apparently, possibly, potentially has some spell that can apparently kill Celestials but has never been seen. Oh, that's right, because you're clearly wanking and being duplicitous. Odin can't kill Celestials, he's never been shown to be able to, and he has no feats suggesting he can. Shall we move on?

Second, you're twisting my words again. I never said anybody who can kill a multiversal entity can be considered nigh-omnipotent. How many times do I have to quote myself before you get it right? This is what I wrote:

To even be considered nigh-omnipotent you have to be a multi-versal reality warper. Thanos w/ HOTU is nigh-omnipotent, the Chousin from Tenchi Muyo! are nigh-omnipotent.

Where did I ever say that if you can kill a multiversal entity then you can be considered nigh-omnipotent? Mr. Fantastic has tech lying around his lab that can take out a Celestial (have you read Jonathan Hickman's run on FF?) does that mean he's all of a sudden nigh-omnipotent? lol. Please just stick to what I actually write and not your interpretation of what I write.

Third, this has nothing to do with my "extremely limited perception of omnipotence." (And here you go shifting the debate from nigh-omnipotence to omnipotence again.) It's impossible to have a limited perception of omnipotence because it's an absolute term. Omnipotence means you can do whatever you want. It's an absolute term and it is what it is. What are you not understanding? Most of the confusion in this debate centers around the fact that you don't understand the difference between an absolute term (omnipotence) and a relative term (nigh-omnipotence). You keep playing fast and loose with these two phrases and it's causing confusion.

Ragnarok is the product of beings superior to Odin in power - or at least influence over events. Odin's always had infinite power - to shorter degree than other characters - sure, but there are plenty of characters in the Marvel Universe with limitless power. Believe me my perception has a lot less to do with Odin (because realistically it wouldn't matter) and more to see how I perceive beings of that kind of power in general. The one being offered to the contrary is simply too stifling for a universe filled with infinitely powerful beings that mold reality to their fancy without breaking a sweat.

Are you serious? In your last post you told this was your definition of nigh-omnipotence:

Eitherway my perception of Nigh-Omnipotence is more so related to any beings with infinite power, that can shape reality (especially if they can create universes / pocket dimensions or promptly have individuals cease to exist) and more or less are powerful enough to do virtually anything they want.

So your definition of nigh-omnipotence has 3 components: 1) infinite power; 2) ability to shape reality (creating universes/pocket dimensions); 3) can do virtually whatever they want. And you say Odin fits this bill? Let me put it in bold: because of Ragnarok Odin is a slave in his own pocket dimension to beings who are stronger than he is! So yeah, Odin can do whatever he wants except not be a slave. I mean seriously, your threshold for nigh-omnipotence is so low that all someone has to do is be able to create a pocket dimension with 1 planet and be a slave and they would qualify. LOL! This is exactly why I said that in order to be nigh-omnipotent, at the very least you need to be a high tier reality warper. You really have to be able to do whatever you want within your own sphere of influence. For example, Warlock with IG; Thanos w/ Hotu; the Chousin, etc. These characters are really the top dog in their sphere of influence. Of course there could always be someone stronger than you outside your sphere of influence, but again nigh-omnipotence is a relative term.

Your leniency on omniscience, yet oddly specific bars set omnipotence are still quite a puzzle. If you really wanted to push it nigh-omnipotence being limited to multiversal reality warpers really doesn't make more sense than a universal shaper or realm shaper.

I really don't understand what you mean by my "leniency on omniscience". Omnipotence is an absolute term; you can either do whatever you want or you can't. Omniscience is an absolute term; you either know everything or you don't. Nigh-omnipotent is a relative term; you're nigh-omnipotent within your sphere of influence. Functional omniscience is a relative term; you know everything within a particular context. It's entirely possible for a being to not be either omnipotent or nigh-omnipotent but be omniscient or functionally omniscient. Why does this confuse you? Do you think that a being who's functionally omniscient has to also be nigh-omnipotent? Just because you know everything doesn't mean you can do everything.

You're using power in two different context - in this sense having infinite power to power the propulsion of your rocket - yet it isn't infinitely powerful. Although to be fair, how i wrote it could lead to confusion. Either way I think it has less to do with not being meant to taken seriously and more to do with writers trying to make sense of all these characters sporting supposedly infinite amounts of power to shape reality, yet still being weaker than other characters on the same boat.

Though while I can appreciate your perception - I just don't see it being simple enough to avoid the confusion associated with a universe filled with God-Beings that shape it to will.

First, I wasn't using power in two different contexts. You were using the word infinite in two different contexts and I pointed this out to you to clarify the discussion. Second, while I agree that writers are trying to use different notions of the word "infinite" to clarify the power hierarchy, what they're really using is psuedo-math.

Let's take a look at your scan. Purple guy tries to explain the difference in power by using natural numbers. He claims the set of odd numbers and the set of even numbers are both infinite, right? Then he claims that the set of natural numbers is also infinite but the set is twice as big as either the set of even numbers or the set of odd numbers. But this is wrong. He even states that, "Half of infinity is still infinity." This means that the set of even numbers is infinite, the set of odd numbers is infinite and the set of natural numbers is infinite. Odd numbers and even numbers are both subsets of natural numbers but each set is as infinite as the set of natural numbers. The set of natural numbers isn't twice as big as either the set of odd numbers or even numbers. I'm not an expert in set theory, but as far as I know, it's impossible to say that Celestials are infinitely more powerful than Cubed Beings who are themselves infinitely powerful. They would just both be infinitely powerful or Celestials are just more powerful than Cubed Beings.

@raizex said:

Cosmic Spiderman already did it.

Thats not actually Cosmic Spiderman, which is generally used to refer to Spiderman with the power of Captain Universe. The scan is from Spiderman: Secret Wars and he has the power of Beyonder, and most likely not canon because 1 it was all age comics, it comes after the retcon, Molecule Man was already dead after seige, this takes place about 3 years later.

@isaac_clarke:We more of less agree on most things just quoting things we dont agree.

From way back in Journey into the Mystery, marvel has shown World Tree on multiple occasions, and every time the size of Asgardia, which is the collection of 4 realms was stated to be the size of us continent. Would you like some scans?

My understanding is, if Odin re-creates Asgard, which is what he did during Fear Itself, i dont see why he would re-create Asgard bigger than what it is, at least not without the comics saying Odin re-created Asgard and made it a whole lot bigger.

My point was different, there is no inherent difference between Elder Gods and normal Gods as they were created out of same energy, the life giving energy of the Earth's biosphere.

Also i would like to know which particular Elder God do you think is more powerful than Odin, and most importantly why.

Odin was re-creating Asgard during Fear Itself, why would he create it much bigger than it already is. And if he did create it bigger wouldnt you expect the comics to at least tell us he did.

The last sentence is pretty spot on, not to mention we have seen the nexus itself been used to amplify attack quite constantly. Goblin Force, powerful enough to actually fight and kill a lot of Celestials, was erased out of existence when Havok got to send his attack thru the otherworld. That how much the otherworld can increase your output.

There are a whole other example too.

And Sutur is explaining his plan was throwing a "match" at the otherworld that would burn the whole multiverse.

Yes, but it looks like both are correct.

After all once the connection with the nexus is shattered he says he still has enough energy to destroy 9 worlds.

Looks to me thats what his power was which pretty much sits cleanly with his established chronology.

Thats a bit of leap of faith from my side and lets see.

First Loki tricks Odin, who has exiled himself in the Asgardia space to come to Asgard , or the new man made Asgard.

We can see there is a portal behind him. He is talking to Loki there and Loki convinces him, while Thor is fighting and beating Surtur using a plot device, a holy unison of Shadow of Twilight Sword and Mjolnir.

When the blast is released Odin more of less seem to divert the blast thru the same portal

@ghostravage: you have no idea what ur saying, the versions here of most of them can use no. Physical attacks.

Ad galactus destroys em

this... it's the only way lol

good day

@uberhikari said:

Mostly from 'Surtur has the power' portion of what was quoted; but your saying it's more a matter of you simply not believing Surtur is capable of such a feat - regardless of what devices are available to him. Short of scans of Surtur actually accomplishing that goal - I doubt one could convince you otherwise.

It didn't destroy the cosmos as a result of Odin's direct intervention; that was much of the point of bringing him there in the first place as those energies uncontrolled would have been a bad thing. So the writer brought in the character in the same scope of power as Surtur; Odin.

I don't see why it matters if it was sent into pocket dimension - the ones The Collector had if released into 616 would have over-written that reality:

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It's not like 'pocket' makes them any less vast or any less of a universe. Much the same to the pocket universe that Mikaboshi was BFRed into of Hera's construct that seemingly confused it well enough into believing it was the 616 universe before consuming it. Given the depiction just the intial portions of that blast Odin was controlling was already spanning light-years given the size of it in the background of worlds behind Odin. Not that I can't see your point of view - but from the perspective of this narrative without it's conduit the blast radius of this energy was far more limited.

He is nigh-omnipotent (as far as nigh-omnipotence is viewed from perspective); I never made any claims you used omnipotence and nigh-omnipotence interchangeably - simply questioning why a lecture on absolute omnipotence was necessary when that wasn't what was being discussed or asked of you.

Again that was more so to play around with your definition of nigh-omnipotence given the Celestials apparently created the Marvel Multi-verse - yet a handful of them view Franklin and Galactus threats to them and Odin's blood-line can use enchantments to make Asgardian Axes into Celestial busters. If it's clear what I was trying to do - it certainly doesn't read that way when you attempt to summarize it. If you never intended to imply I said Odin was multi-versal - you certainly went on a tangent to repeat how he wasn't multi-versal.

The issue is it so much an effort on my part to bolster anything - from my range of omnipotence is, which is seemingly more akin to how you view omniscience (which again is very oddly less stifling) - he is with a host of other characters you would clearly disagree with that assessment of despite the intention of Marvel's writing staff to extent that definition to these characters.

The narration was through Thor predominantly as recall through that story arc - with the exception of Sif's appearance on Mars. It would appear Fraction was again pointing out that characters such as Galactus and Odin are incredibly powerful beings that in every sense of word God - are omnipotent beings - but much like the Q of Trek Nigh-Omnipotence is the best claim they can make. Odin is omnipotent in the same way Galactus is omnipotent or the same way Doom described himself as omnipotent when he gained Galactus' own power:

Same goes for a host of other characters. You could argue it's contradicting - which anyone making the claim omnipotence is, but in this case that's why we're using the word 'nigh-omnipotent' to begin with to describe such characters - who are in every sense of the word omnipotent cosmic gods - but not quite truly omnipotent because they have piers and superiors.

Debating with you is a lot like walking on egg-shells. One has to be oddly specific with whatever word usage they use in order to avoid your confusion / subsequent explanation of what is being said incorrectly. *Note: walking on egg-shells is an expression.* My usage of 'omnipotence' referring to a 'limited perception of omnipotence' is to all forms of omnipotence - not just true omnipotence - which again you seem to find oddly confusing despite how simple I try to break it down to.

To comment to the rest of this portion of the post: Because I thought it was be fun to poke around with your definition of nigh-omnipotence because I could using scans or factoids from comics that make for a fun - but not entirely serious argument. As for Odin's inability to kill Celestials - - - you missed Uncanny Avengers #6-#7.

#6 - - - Introduction of Celestial Busting Enchantment:

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Feel free to read the first two pages of #7 preview - the rest of the issue consists of the cast being blown away by what just happened and Apoc's cruiser flying straight to Earth and Thor flying up to meet it knowing his past has come back to haunt him: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=16158

I could post those scans too - but it would be a bit wasteful considering they were the first ones provided in the preview for the next issue. Spoilers Gardner died.

I never said you said anything - so it has less to do with my twisting of any words and more of you thinking that I implied you said anything you didn't. *Note: The assortment of Mr. Fantastics in that multi-verse club had Celestial busters - its clear Reed never got the specs (and neither did the rest of his cohorts) since those weapons were absent the rest of the story arc - with the exception of the nullifier. In the case with Thor - this enchantment only required Odin's blood in his veins and a parchment set of instructions.

It really has nothing to do with confusion on my part - I know exactly what I intended when I wrote about your limited perspective on omnipotence - which you immediately assumed was me speaking of absolute omnipotence over omnipotence as a term being applied to a host of characters here.

Mr. Sea-Shells, you're proclaiming contradiction where it doesn't exist and even acknowledge the same with the final closing portion of this post. The TWSAS created the Rangarok cycle and continued to manipulate events to have them be perpetual - Odin being the only being aware of this entire process went about using Thor as instrament to break it for whatever reasons that prevented Odin from doing so.

Odin is limited in 'sphere of influence' the same way the Living Tribunal, Adamn Warlock (IG) or Eternity were - they were a complete slave to their own power - knowing exactly how events would play out - yet playing those parts regardless. Their spheres all being influenced by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee - the TOAA writing away exactly how these events played out on panel when the Fantastic Four had their moment to speak with god.

• Thanos couldn't get past by his own need to fail. Literally this is the reasoning given for why he's lost despite having omnipotence every time straight from Warlock's mouth.
• Warlock was a slave to the IG as he couldn't even act outside the path he was saw from the beginning. Mentioned to both Eternity and the Living Tribunal.
• A chousin was being manipulated by the will of her host - later in the same narrative they couldn't even release the seals binding them.

It has nothing to do with being so low - it's being that were in some method his superior manipulating events - which is a lot like how the Marvel Universe even functions with every being you've acknowledged as being nigh-omnipotent doing exactly what the TOAA writes them as doing - at least Odin's case he was able to empower Thor to resist their influence and defeat them.

Feel free to write more "LOL!" - this argument is becoming more and more about your difficulties staying on the same page with me, rather than a difference of perception related to Nigh-Omnipotence.

Because to be omniscient in your perspective you simply have to be aware a selective amount of information; in RKT's case all events pertaining to the the Asgardian universe past, present and to a limited degree the future. Your earlier perception of nigh-omnipotence the bar was set at multiversal shapers - although it's somewhat more lax here with anyone that can be considered an incredibly potent reality warper. It wasn't a question of what is related to being nigh-omnipotence - simply this incredibly morelax perception on omniscience.

Oddly enough with your previous statements to dominion over one's sphere would make RKT nigh-omnipotent in Asgard given he usurped TWSAS.

Apparently this argument has evolved into 'who said what' given you're just repeating my initial reaction the term of power being used in two entirely different contexts. Now you're telling I am, while saying you didn't - fantastically productive.

The writer is attempting to rationalize how multiple characters can be infinitely powerful - yet weaker than others who are also infinitely powerful. Arguing past that is semantics - my view of a situation pertaining to two infinitely powerful characters, with one being the superior to the other - translates into one being infinitely more powerful than the other. It's the same relationship the TOAA has to the LT or to an Volstagg to Galactus.

From here on out - because these discussions are reaching Hitsu - level long responses I'm taking this discussion to PMs - feel free to have another jab here if you'd like - I figure people like having the last word so it's welcomed to be yours on the public portion of these argument.

Galactus beats everyone you listed but Sky-Father Hercules (from Chaos War) would own Galactus.

Galactus wins here...properly written and well nourished, these guys would be like ants...

@killemall said:

It's within the context of the original secret wars when the Beyonder was omnipotent - so it isn't too big a deal if think of this narrative in that way. Although that Spiderman would stomp in this thread pretty bad.

He kind of 'recreates' Asgard. As Odin announced in Fear Itself 2:

In the next book - Loki acknowledges this change when Thor asks "What is all this?" - Loki responds "It's Asgard. Odin rebuilt the entire world as a war engine..." (FI:B3) I could provide a scan but the quality is a bit 'meh'. Either way Odin remade it to combat the Serpent - or in this case burn Earth to a crisp just to weaken him. I think even in God of Thunder they might have shown it as a world - but I'd need to re-read the books to confirm that. Either way the Asgard Odin created wasn't a copy of original - but a world designed for war.

Set, Cthon come to mind - but that's neither here nor there.

I assumed the partial image of an almost completed world that started off as a small hill under Odin's feat - and during the conversation grew to a length he was no longer visible in would be a fair indicator of a difference between the original and the now. I can almost swear a complete world popped up on panel too - but I can't place my fingers on it from memory - I'd have to dig. Either way they keep referring to it as a world over and over at least in the books.

Either way it's kinda a non debate if we don't even disagree Odin can create worlds.

If that's the case it seems fairly convincing that the 'otherworld' can be quite an amplify if it can turn a universal flame into a multiverse annihilating fire. I haven't read much narratives featuring 'otherworld' so I'm a bit in the dark on how it functions.

Not sure what you're referring to here, sorry about that.

The portal also remained open when Odin was talking to the both of them / when told them to stand back. Now whether or not that was a direct link to Asgardian space - - - I think might have been elaborated in the trial - but I can't remember. I'd have to look it up.

@isaac_clarke: Yeah, I'm pretty much done here. It's been fun watching you run around in circles chasing your own tail--I think my favorite part was your tedious explanation for why Odin is nigh-omnipotent even though he's clearly a slave to beings who are more powerful than him in his own pocket dimension. (By the way, no Chousin was ever "manipulated by the will of her host." Maybe that happened in some non-canon versions of Techni Muyo! that I haven't seen but that never happened in the original 20 episode OVA series.)

It's clear that you're being extremely duplicitous, for example, using the words omnipotence and nigh-omnipotence interchangeably but accusing me of doing so; and posting scans of Thor breaking Celestial built armor rather than actually beating a real Celestial. In any event, the most important thing is this: even if I conceded that RKT is nigh-omnipotent it doesn't mean he can beat Galactus, which is really what started this entire argument. So, for the purposes of this thread whether or not RKT is nigh-omnipotent is irrelevant.

Deuces.

@isaac_clarke said:

I was referring to Odin recreating Asgard in Fear-Itself and by no means was it simply a floating continent(s). He was shaping a "world" under his admission.

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I recall that Odin also created a "Warworld" of sorts to lead Asgard to battle against Earth , should the Serpent triumph . Although , from a personal point of view , it was pretty retarded of Fraction to create such a plot device , seeing how that is essentially plagiarism of the DC analog(Mongul's planet) . Edit : Yeah , that is the very Warworld in your scans .

Also , I'd like to mention that Onslaught at his peak power never demonstrated anywhere near the feats that Franklin has performed , nor is his power level even remotely comparable to beings like Galactus , Odin or the Celestials .

Surprisingly enough , I agree with most of your assessments in this thread , although I'd like to point out that Hickman mentioned on Formspring that Galactus would still have fallen even if the Mad Celestials hadn't Voltroned : http://4ms.me/Qd5mRj . Make of that what you will .

Hey there Kill . It was actually a retelling of a classic tale , sort of like a "what happened between the panels" elaboration of the Original Secret Wars story , so the events of Siege aren't really relevant here , nor do I believe that it being retelling really puts a question mark on its canonicity , unless specified otherwise by a Marvel creative staff .

@isaac_clarke said:

Your earlier scans of Odin recreating Asgard into a war machine pretty clearly depict a planet(oid) being constructed . I clearly agree with you in this regard , and it isn't really up for debate imo .

...This got out of hand quickly :D

@uberhikari said:

I was hoping for a response a bit more insightful to what I wrote and less about how wicked I am. Mr. Sea-Shells you are quite a bother.

Two Corrections:

• What started the argument was a different of opinion as what classified a character as nigh-omnipotent. I established from my initial post I was under the impression Galactus should win regardless.
• I posted a link to a preview where the Gardner is killed with Thor's axe at the very start of Uncanny Avengers #7. Gardner is a Celestial; how you missed that portion of my post I wouldn't have a clue.

But since you seem to have a little trouble I'll upload the page straight from the preview:

I could provide every page of the comic if you'd like if you insist there is foul-play. I can also take screen shots of my previous post where I already established I was under the impression that Galactus wins.

My reference in regards to the Chousin was when Tsunami interfered directly to protect Tenchi proclaiming how it is the will of her host (Sasami) and therefore herself. Maybe I watched a bad sub; but I'm glad compared to everything else I pointed out with your specific examples that's the issue you took with it.

Given the TWSAS died - he isn't much of a "slave" (even though he defeated them indirectly through Thor as his instrument) and now has an entire personal dimension to play All-Father without question in. Guess that means he's nigh-omnipotent.

Not really. I made a mistake to start any sort of conversation with Sea-Shells; believing that we could have a friendly discussion that wouldn't consist of someone proving to be even more nit-picky than I am, easily confused and tremendously more confrontational.

@hyper_god: Not surprising to be honest. More often than not I really don't have much to disagree with your points myself.

all of them against galactus? hmmm I give it to the heroes that's ALOT of power know what I mean world breaker hulk is power personified odin force thor is just godly and onslaught pretty much is every thing heroes don't want to fight

Galactus wins.

If you mean full power Galactus vs these guys, about everyone other than onslaught, especially ironman:

/* Facepalm */

I am going to have to give this to Galactus after a good fight

@hulkishulk: obviously not full power galactus