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#1 Posted by imagine727 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

Galactus vs the most powerful incarnations of some the strongest heroes in the marvel universe:

Iron Man (extremis), Hulk (worldbreaker), Ghost Rider (zarathos), Spider man (Cosmic), Thor (odinforce), Rulk (Loebforce) and Onslaught

Who wins and why, no biased answers

#2 Posted by cliffrice (1015 posts) - - Show Bio

Well im still gonna say galactus. Odinforce thor is the strongest on their team. Galactus tanked a hit from odin himself (WHom i would figure is more adept with the odinforce than thor is) sooo i have to go with galactus. 8.5/10 times.

#3 Posted by Pope052 (3105 posts) - - Show Bio

@imagine727: Galactus would win, but how fed is Galactus? Not that it matters much but the only chance the team have is if Galactus is starving....

#4 Posted by comic_book_fan (5576 posts) - - Show Bio

he might get overwhelmed by all of them onslaught at full power is a fight for him with Odin force thor and zarathos all together will cause trouble.

#5 Posted by GhostRavage (8855 posts) - - Show Bio

This would be a reality warper fight, where strength and physical harm could be discarded, so WBH, Iron Man, Rulk and Spiderman have nothing to do in this fight. What about RuneKing Thor? Isn't he more powerful than OdinForce Thor? I think i read somewhere he became one with the universe in RuneKing Thor state. Don't know much about what Zarathos can do to Galactus, does he has penance stare? Does it work on Galactus? If not then its a battle between Onslaught and Galactus which i think Big G will win.

#6 Posted by xlab3000 (3212 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 could have a chance

#7 Edited by XImpossibruX (5171 posts) - - Show Bio

Loeb force Rulk could possibly solo, it just depends on how high Jeph is.

#8 Posted by imagine727 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

Galactus is 50% fed, so not at full power but far from starving either

#9 Edited by imagine727 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Zarathos does have penance stare, though I'm unsure as to whether it would work on galactus. Considering all the pain and strife he's caused there's a good chance it could. Since physical power is really a non-factor here, why don't we change hulk to Uni-power? If I remember correctly Uni-power hulk has some energy manipulation abilities...also, what other powers does cosmic spider-man have?

#10 Posted by Killemall (18556 posts) - - Show Bio

Loeb force Rulk could possibly solo, it just depends on how high Jeph is.

Funny really but Leob Rulk did face Galactus after having killed Surfer. Galactus first drained him of power cosmic and send him to Earth.

Rulk beats up a Watcher, Grandmaster, mocks Dormammu but is casually BFRed by Galactus :p seems to be Loeb himself is a Galactus fan :p

#11 Edited by logy5000 (5732 posts) - - Show Bio

It doesn't have to be Loeb, any writer could say that Red Hulk could beat Galactus.

WIS aside, Galactus likely stomps. It really depends which OF Thor this is.

#12 Posted by imagine727 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000: Its just thor with OF, like he had when he fought bor

#13 Posted by King Saturn (224033 posts) - - Show Bio

Galactus should win in a good battle with the Team.

#14 Posted by Jezer (3129 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know the context, which versions, etc., but I remember seeing a scan of Doctor Strange almost killing Galactus through an attack called the Images of Ikonn, which confronted him with "ghosts of all those he'd slain".

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/96579/1810513-drstangepwnsgal2.jpg

Its conceptually similar enough to the penance stare, that it can be argued that the Penance Stare would work.

#15 Edited by dondave (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

Galactus

#16 Posted by GhostRavage (8855 posts) - - Show Bio

@imagine727: Maybe Uni-Power should be a better option to this fight. Know anything about OF thor and Rk thor? i mean whos more powerful?

#17 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

Galactus in a stomp. Iron Man, Hulk, Spider-Man, Thor and Rulk are irrelevant. That means it's just Big G vs Onslaught and Ghost Rider; and who's gonna argue that Onslaught and Ghost Rider, even with Zarathos, can beat Galactus?

*Also, I wish people would stop using the percent thing when using Galactus in battles, for example, saying that Galactus is at 50%. It just doesn't make sense because Galactus hasn't been shown to have an upper limit. He's never been 100% so you can't say how powerful he would be at 50%.

#18 Posted by imagine727 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: I know its mere speculation but as far as I'm aware there is no way to determine Galactus's power level that is completely accurate, if there is, please enlighten us as to how it works instead of simply complaining about how ineffective the current method is.

#19 Posted by imagine727 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: I believe RK thor is more powerful but I'm unsure. Any thor experts willing to help out?

#20 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Posted by imagine727 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_lunact_and_manic: Thanks. In your opinion which version of thor would make the best contribution to the fight?

#22 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

Galactus should take this

#23 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@imagine727 said:

@the_lunact_and_manic: Thanks. In your opinion which version of thor would make the best contribution to the fight?

Well, if normal Thor can beat a starving Galactus...RKT should be able to beat a 50% fed one.

I could be wrong anyways.

#24 Posted by imagine727 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

RKT is kind of overkill though considering he's practically omnipotent, so OF or king Thor is probably the best choice

#25 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: I know its mere speculation but as far as I'm aware there is no way to determine Galactus's power level that is completely accurate, if there is, please enlighten us as to how it works instead of simply complaining about how ineffective the current method is.

I never implied that there was a completely accurate way to determine Galactus's power level, only that using percentages is misleading because Galactus at 100% has never been shown. I really don't know why you're getting so defensive. @killemall has also pointed out this exact same problem in Galactus threads. Just say Galactus at his normal power level or Galactus has just eaten a world; to my knowledge the most he's ever consumed in anticipation of a fight is 4 worlds when he fought the Mad Celestials.

@imagine727: RKT>>>>>>>>>Odin>=King Thor>>>OF Thor

This is wrong. King Thor is not stronger than Odin Force Thor. King Thor is just normal Thor when he became king of Asgard, plus Mjolnir was broken. It goes: RKT>>>>Odin>>>>OF Thor>King Thor.

@imagine727 said:

@the_lunact_and_manic: Thanks. In your opinion which version of thor would make the best contribution to the fight?

Well, if normal Thor can beat a starving Galactus...RKT should be able to beat a 50% fed one.

I could be wrong anyways.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Normal Thor never beat a starving Galactus.

RKT is kind of overkill though considering he's practically omnipotent, so OF or king Thor is probably the best choice

RKT is not omnipotent, he's not nigh-omnipotent, and he's not "practically omnipotent." At best he's functionally omniscient and there's quite a bit of debate over precisely what the extent of RKT's knowledge is.

#26 Posted by batnorris (679 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, ironman is here XD. I say galactus clears if 1 on 1's.

#27 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: He made Galactus run for his life after using a Godblast, if he didn't beat him, I don't know what a win is anymore.

And I'm talking about King Thor of Thor: God Of Thunder.

#28 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_lunact_and_manic said:

@uberhikari: He made Galactus run for his life after using a Godblast, if he didn't beat him, I don't know what a win is anymore.

And I'm talking about King Thor of Thor: God Of Thunder.

No, that's not what happened. Galactus was in the middle of a fight with Ego the Living Planet. Galactus was already exhausted and hungry from that fight and then Thor channeled the Odin Force and used a God Blast. A God Blast is using the Odin Force, so it wasn't "normal" Thor.

Edit: Now that I remember more clearly, Thor had to channel the Odin Force combined with energy from Ego to actually get Galactus to retreat. It was in Thor issue 161.

#29 Edited by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari said:

@the_lunact_and_manic said:

@uberhikari: He made Galactus run for his life after using a Godblast, if he didn't beat him, I don't know what a win is anymore.

And I'm talking about King Thor of Thor: God Of Thunder.

No, that's not what happened. Galactus was in the middle of a fight with Ego the Living Planet. Galactus was already exhausted and hungry from that fight and then Thor channeled the Odin Force and used a God Blast. A God Blast is using the Odin Force, so it wasn't "normal" Thor.

Hence the starving part. :P

I don't remember the OF thing, but, if you say so, my mistake.

#30 Edited by fiodestromus (1008 posts) - - Show Bio

He clears but if he has to deal with all of them he "might" be in some trouble.

He has to keep up with Thor's many GodBlast(there will be many)

While avoiding planet force punches from the World-breaker (probably Galactuses greatest annoyance and if Galactus even hits him once,he could make hulk way stronger than he already was,any stronger than that will be BIG trouble for Galactus )

Ironman: will most likely develop a strategy to weaken him even more.

Rulk will be slugging away while also trying to feed off of Galactus's cosmic energy

Zaratos has penance stare,and Galactus is Guilty of Trillions of deaths most likely

I wonder if Onslaught can effect any metal on him If so that will also be trouble and I wonder can he use Telepathic blast

and also If Spiderman can do cosmic blast that will also be trouble

Galactus has a chance but none of this battle would be easy for him

#31 Posted by imagine727 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: You raised some valid points there, thanks for contributing. Ok then lets say galactus has just consumed a planet around the size of earth prior to the battle. But if RKT thor is not even approaching omnipotence, how is it that he was able to achieve all the things he did? (breaking ragnarok, destroying TWSAIS, allowing surtur to enter asgard..) was it just a massive power boost?

#32 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: You raised some valid points there, thanks for contributing. Ok then lets say galactus has just consumed a planet around the size of earth prior to the battle. But if RKT thor is not even approaching omnipotence, how is it that he was able to achieve all the things he did? (breaking ragnarok, destroying TWSAIS, allowing surtur to enter asgard..) was it just a massive power boost?

RKT was able to do everything he did because of what he sacrificed to obtain the full knowledge and the magic of the Runes + obtain mastery of the Odin Force. If you remember, RKT hung on the tree longer than Odin and he also gave up both his eyes rather than one. The Runes and the Odin Force certainly didn't make Thor omnipotent, if it did he would have simply been able to ignore Ragnarok, re-create Mjolnir on his own or warp reality in any number of ways to make it so that Asgard didn't have to be destroyed. But Thor did get a massive power boost that, at the very least, made him functionally omniscient. In Thor Disassembled we never got to see precisely what the full scope of Thor's power is (although his feats are very impressive) so we can't say for sure how powerful he is. But we do know: RKT>>>>>>>>>>>Odin.

Now, if Galactus has only eaten 1 world before this fight, then Ghost Rider + RKT have a serious chance of winning. I know next to nothing about Ghost Rider (Zarathos) but RKT alone should be enough to cause Galactus significant trouble.

#33 Posted by imagine727 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: Thanks for clearig that up, as for zarathos as far as I'm aware he's around Mephisto's power level, and so is a major factor in this fight.

#34 Posted by CosmicOrochi (103 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor & Onslaught.. The only threats.

I don't see the others making ANY difference, until Galactus is vulnerable.. If that happens.

I'm sure someone could explain why or why not Galactus would be vulnerable.

#35 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

Onslaught and Odin Force Thor is the largest factor here, maybe Onslaught's reality warping could help... A lot.

#36 Posted by imagine727 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicorochi: But what about spider man with the power cosmic and hulk with unipower? Shouldn't they have some powerful energy based abilities?

#37 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari:

i assume that the most well fed galactus has ever been was in the first issue of The mighty thor annual

it was never mentioned in the issue that galactus consumed any planet or anything but his performance in the issue does indicate so. he was able to hold his own against 2 multiversal beings (scrier and the other), i could post scans if you want, but i just don't have the time to do it now.

#38 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio
@rolldestroyer said:

@uberhikari:

i assume that the most well fed galactus has ever been was in the first issue of The mighty thor annual

it was never mentioned in the issue that galactus consumed any planet or anything but his performance in the issue does indicate so. he was able to hold his own against 2 multiversal beings (scrier and the other), i could post scans if you want, but i just don't have the time to do it now.

I don't know about The Mighty Thor Annual because I haven't read it. But the major thing about Galactus is that oftentimes it's not clear precisely what power level he's at. I know before he fought Tyrant he consumed 1 world and he was almost beaten. The most I've ever seen him eat before a fight is 4 worlds before he fought the Mad Celestials. In that fight he killed 1 Celestial and the other 3 combined to one shot him.

#39 Edited by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

Onslaught at his peak is weaker than Franklin Richards - since Franklin was actively fighting Onslaughts efforts to hijack his power-set. There are about four canon iterations of Odinforce Thor - the three only worth mentioning being Oldman Thor (mainly on the account of his neat equipment), King Thor and Rune King Thor. Although the only one out of those three that could give Galactus issues would be Rune King Thor - which shouldn't give him the win unless Galactus is weakened considerably.

Outside the start of Ragnarok - Thor when he was Lord of Asgard possessed the Odin-Power for the most part of his run. Even with a damaged Mjolnir the iteration of post-Ragnarok Thor had the Odin-Power (although to a limited extent given Odin was still powerful enough to fight Surtur day in and day out - as well as Thor's lack-luster showings with it like taking a week to recreate Asgard on Earth).

People on Vine as far as I can recall when referring to King Thor are speaking of the iteration that took over Earth and then with the help with the Designate decided to retcon all of said events. In other-words, the Thor Odin had a vision about and the events that took place for Thor just before Ragnarok even happened. That one, outside of select lower showings, kicks the hell out of post Ragnarok Thor - which I usually call Thorforce Thor.

Odin's nigh-omnipotent - I wouldn't have a clue why you would assume Thor with the Rune Magic isn't. Largely most of showings he didn't even bother using the Odin Power in that narrative.

The other three used the fourth's corpse to combine - which apparently made them infinitely more powerful than when they were separate given all four of them leaping to attack Galactus had no were near the same results.

#40 Posted by Sideslash (5907 posts) - - Show Bio

Galactus should win.

#41 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke:

Outside the start of Ragnarok - Thor when he was Lord of Asgard possessed the Odin-Power for the most part of his run. Even with a damaged Mjolnir the iteration of post-Ragnarok Thor had the Odin-Power (although to a limited extent given Odin was still powerful enough to fight Surtur day in and day out - as well as Thor's lack-luster showings with it like taking a week to recreate Asgard on Earth).

People on Vine as far as I can recall when referring to King Thor are speaking of the iteration that took over Earth and then with the help with the Designate decided to retcon all of said events. In other-words, the Thor Odin had a vision about and the events that took place for Thor just before Ragnarok even happened. That one, outside of select lower showings, kicks the hell out of post Ragnarok Thor - which I usually call Thorforce Thor.

Odin's nigh-omnipotent - I wouldn't have a clue why you would assume Thor with the Rune Magic isn't. Largely most of showings he didn't even bother using the Odin Power in that narrative.

First, different people have so many different ways of referring to different iterations of Thor that it's difficult to understand precisely what you're saying. In any event I don't think it's so important to parse out these different iterations for the purpose of this thread.

Second, quite frankly you're wrong about several things. 1) Odin is not "nigh-omnipotent." I see so many instances where people toss around cool sounding phrases like "nigh-omnipotent" without justification. Odin is a sky father; that's it and that's all. He's not even universal. 2) RKT is not "nigh-omnipotent." He was never shown to do anything that even remotely hints at him being "nigh-omnipotent." Like I said before, he's at best functionally omniscient.

The other three used the fourth's corpse to combine - which apparently made them infinitely more powerful than when they were separate given all four of them leaping to attack Galactus had no were near the same results.

This is also wrong. When the Mad Celestials combined to defeat Galactus they didn't become "infinitely more powerful." Nothing either stated or shown suggests this. This is nothing more than your speculation. The only thing we know is that they were powerful enough to one-shot Galactus, but why you would interpret this as meaning that they became "infinitely more powerful" is inexplicable to me. The combined Mad Celestials were powerful enough to one-shot Galactus, how much stronger they were than this is simply unknown.

#42 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't understand your confusion - if you've read enough about the character it shouldn't be too difficult for you to grasp what I'm referring to with these various iterations. In the last decade there have been at least four iterations of Thor that have possessed the Odin-Power canon to the Marvel universe. I was attempting to elaborate on what said poster was referring to when they wrote 'King Thor.'

Random no-body godlings in Marvel are being described as creating worlds (Thor: God of Thunder #7). Odin after his resurrection was casually creating planets with his thoughts (with a prison / set of guards to house Thor), battled Galactus on the astral plane (while being referred to as omnipotent by the cast of characters) and BFRed multiversal destroying energies (although at this point isolated to 616) from Surtur's death into another dimension. I even recall a quote from Marvel labeling Odin the Phoenix' superior in power to boot.

One of the most common words used to describe Odin in his appearances by characters present is omnipotent.

But a better question to elevate the inevitable back and forth from you; what do you believe a nigh-omnipotent character can do?

Celestials are already described as infinitely more powerful than cubed beings ("levels of infinity") - them merging together and becoming more powerful would fit the bill of becoming 'infinitely more powerful.' Either way that was me using an expression, not an actual confirmed quote - otherwise I would have just used a scan. It was to describe how all four of them couldn't initially defeat Galactus until the merger that allowed them to one-shot him - gaining an significant boost in power in the process.

#43 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke:

Random no-body godlings in Marvel are being described as creating worlds (Thor: God of Thunder #7). Odin after his resurrection was casually creating planets with his thoughts (with a prison / set of guards to house Thor), battled Galactus on the astral plane (while being referred to as omnipotent by the cast of characters) and BFRed multiversal destroying energies (although at this point isolated to 616) from Surtur's death into another dimension. I even recall a quote from Marvel labeling Odin the Phoenix' superior in power to boot.

One of the most common words used to describe Odin in his appearances by characters present is omnipotent.

I don't care if "random no-body godlings" can create worlds; that doesn't make them omnipotent or nigh-omnipotent. I don't care if Odin was casually creating planets after his resurrection; that doesn't make him omnipotent or nigh-omnipotent. I don't care if Odin battled Galactus on the astral plane; that doesn't make him omnipotent or nigh-omnipotent. I don't care if Odin was referred to as omnipotent; that doesn't make him omnipotent or nigh-omnipotent. Most of the time Odin was called omnipotent was just hyperbole, and this is evidenced by the fact that with prep + the Destroyer armor he got his @ss handed to him by the Celestials. Also, please provide scans of Odin BFR'ing "multiversal destroying energies." No such scan exists because it didn't happen, and if it did there must have been major context surrounding the feat seeing as how Odin has never been multiversal.

Do you even know what the word omnipotent means? First, there's a difference between omnipotent and nigh-omnipotent. Omnipotent means that you can literally do whatever you want. True omnipotents are characters like TOAA from Marvel; Kami-Tenchi from Tenchi Muyo!, etc. Omnipotents can't be beaten, they can't be BFR'd, there's no one more powerful than them...not even with the power of plot device. To even be considered nigh-omnipotent you have to be a multi-versal reality warper. Thanos w/ HOTU is nigh-omnipotent, the Chousin from Tenchi Muyo! are nigh-omnipotent.

Celestials are already described as infinitely more powerful than cubed beings ("levels of infinity") - them merging together and becoming more powerful would fit the bill of becoming 'infinitely more powerful.' Either way that was me using an expression, not an actual confirmed quote - otherwise I would have just used a scan. It was to describe how all four of them couldn't initially defeat Galactus until the merger that allowed them to one-shot him - gaining an significant boost in power in the process.

Celestials aren't truly infinitely more powerful than cubed beings; it's just an expression. It's not meant to be taken literally. Also, I know it wasn't a confirmed quote, which is why I called you on it.

#44 Posted by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

Wowsers!

#45 Posted by noiseinmyblood (70 posts) - - Show Bio

It was over at "Galactus vs.".

#46 Posted by Killemall (18556 posts) - - Show Bio

Random no-body godlings in Marvel are being described as creating worlds (Thor: God of Thunder #7).

That honestly looked like they were referring to bible iternation of gods, which was weird given Marvel has been rather consistent with how gods or demon in marvel has a whole different definition than actual gods. That just bad writing as far as i am concerned, giving gods a break in the 7th day to mock gods.. o_O.

Entire Asgardia landmass, that consists of 4 different realms is the size of US continent, what Odin created during Fear Itself looked more like he re-created Asgard and Asgard alone. That not as impressive as creating a planet, let alone PlanetS

I am a bit confused from this one. First isolated from 616 why? Because Odin was looking after Serpents corps in Asgardia space?

The blast, at best was universe, there is nothing really describing it to be multiversal, Surtur himself address that the energy he has is enough to destroy 9 realms.

Not to mention he BFRs the blast into Asgardia space, you dont really re-direct a multiversal blast to a tiny pocket dimension.

Rest i agree with your points.

#47 Edited by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't care if "random no-body godlings" can create worlds; that doesn't make them omnipotent or nigh-omnipotent. I don't care if Odin was casually creating planets after his resurrection; that doesn't make him omnipotent or nigh-omnipotent. I don't care if Odin battled Galactus on the astral plane; that doesn't make him omnipotent or nigh-omnipotent. I don't care if Odin was referred to as omnipotent; that doesn't make him omnipotent or nigh-omnipotent. Most of the time Odin was called omnipotent was just hyperbole, and this is evidenced by the fact that with prep + the Destroyer armor he got his @ss handed to him by the Celestials. Also, please provide scans of Odin BFR'ing "multiversal destroying energies." No such scan exists because it didn't happen, and if it did there must have been major context surrounding the feat seeing as how Odin has never been multiversal.

You keep walking away with the wrong point - whether it's intentional or not I wouldn't have clue. But regardless to further elaborate on the latter showing Surtur's plan was:

And after the Manchester Gods kill themselves to save the multiverse and Surtur is destroyed - that stored energy was released into the universe and was going to destroy it.

Same arc depicts the twilight sword's shadow to enable Loki to change events for better. But at least you provided an answer to the actual question that matters:

I'm well aware of what it means - queue response that insists otherwise. TOAA is simply a representation of the writers / artists are Marvel - but I have no idea why you're delving into the concept of omnipotence rather than nigh-omnipotence. So the Celestials fit the bill?

And therefore beings that can contend with them fit that bill? (Galactus; Franklin Richards; Odin) And before you jump to the mention of Odin - apparently there was a Celestial Busting Spell in Asgard's library to be used by someone of Odin's blood to enchant a weapon to have the power to slay Celestials. Thor used it to enchant his axe - which a couple of centuries later was used to kill the Gardner in Uncanny Avengers.

Eitherway my perception of Nigh-Omnipotence is more so related to any beings with infinite power, that can shape reality (especially if they can create universes / pocket dimensions or promptly have individuals cease to exist) and more or less are powerful enough to do virtually anything they want. Odin fits that bill, Franklin Richards fits that bill (especially with those pocket universes he goes into to play god), the Celestials that bill and so do most abstracts like Galactus (can destroy universes as a byproduct of his big fights).

Feel free to disagree - but your definition of it is a lot more limited to say the least. Which is odd considering you don't have issues with calling RKT 'functionally' omniscient without possessing all knowledge in the multiverse. But whatever.

So under your perception Celestials don't possess infinite power? Oky doky.

#48 Edited by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke said:

Random no-body godlings in Marvel are being described as creating worlds (Thor: God of Thunder #7).

That honestly looked like they were referring to bible iternation of gods, which was weird given Marvel has been rather consistent with how gods or demon in marvel has a whole different definition than actual gods. That just bad writing as far as i am concerned, giving gods a break in the 7th day to mock gods.. o_O.

I was referring to the god officer's child - not quite sure what you're talking about.

I was referring to Odin recreating Asgard in Fear-Itself and by no means was it simply a floating continent(s). He was shaping a "world" under his admission.

I hate to upload multiples of scans I've already uploaded - but what's one to do? Odin already put an emphasis on how easily the odinpower could shape worlds way before ragnarok to Thor who had inherited the power.

So far creating worlds apparently not a big deal for Marvel Gods - and Odin himself is likely the most powerful among-st that group who isn't an Elder God. Thor himself was remarking during Ragnarok how he wished he still had the Odin Power - talking about how he could re-arrange the stars or undo all these unfortunate events with it.

The realms themselves in Avengers Prime were already established as existing in their own worlds (that's post Ragnarok continuity at-least) - as in not a couple of continents and even then the Twilight Sword was shown to easily warp all of them. Feel free to disagree.

I am a bit confused from this one. First isolated from 616 why? Because Odin was looking after Serpents corps in Asgardia space?

The blast, at best was universe, there is nothing really describing it to be multiversal, Surtur himself address that the energy he has is enough to destroy 9 realms.

Not to mention he BFRs the blast into Asgardia space, you dont really re-direct a multiversal blast to a tiny pocket dimension.

Rest i agree with your points.

With the Manchester Gods having killed themselves - the energy was isolated to the current universe - Surtur's attack otherwise wouldn't affect the multiverse without a method of distribution for those energies. I'm not sure if it's mentioned to be asgard space or if that was in the following book where Thor was on trial - but considering Odin can more or less lock the door behind his pocket dimension and separate it from the universe entirely - it doesn't seem like much a big deal.

Hope I don't come off as harsh - I'm just a bit nappy nappy now.

#49 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke said:

You keep walking away with the wrong point - whether it's intentional or not I wouldn't have clue. But regardless to further elaborate on the latter showing Surtur's plan was:

And after the Manchester Gods kill themselves to save the multiverse and Surtur is destroyed - that stored energy was released into the universe and was going to destroy it.

Same arc depicts the twilight sword's shadow to enable Loki to change events for better. But at least you provided an answer to the actual question that matters:

Are you serious? This is what Surtur says in the scan you provided, "Otherword is the home of all magic, it connects with all other realms. To strike a match there would make all realities a pyre, all universes kindling." Are you honestly going to tell me that Surtur has the power to burn every universe in the Marvel multiverse? LOL! And your evidence is a hyperbolic statement by Surtur? I've heard of fan wanking but this is a little ridiculous. @killemall has already pointed out that you can't BFR a multiverse busting blast into a pocket dimension. A multiversal blast should, you know, destroy multiple universes. Odin has never shown the ability to destroy/create a multiverse or withstand multiversal attacks. Odin is not multiversal. He was absolutely stomped by the Celestials with prep + the Destroyer armor.

Same arc depicts the twilight sword's shadow to enable Loki to change events for better. But at least you provided an answer to the actual question that matters:

I'm well aware of what it means - queue response that insists otherwise. TOAA is simply a representation of the writers / artists are Marvel - but I have no idea why you're delving into the concept of omnipotence rather than nigh-omnipotence.

First, it doesn't matter if TOAA is a representation of the writers/artists, he is a character and he is omnipotent. So what exactly is your point? Second, the only reason why I focused on the difference between omnipotence and nigh-omnipotence is because you tried to be slick and started using the terms interchangeably. Here's what you wrote:

Random no-body godlings in Marvel are being described as creating worlds (Thor: God of Thunder #7). Odin after his resurrection was casually creating planets with his thoughts (with a prison / set of guards to house Thor), battled Galactus on the astral plane (while being referred to as omnipotent by the cast of characters) and BFRed multiversal destroying energies (although at this point isolated to 616) from Surtur's death into another dimension. I even recall a quote from Marvel labeling Odin the Phoenix' superior in power to boot.

One of the most common words used to describe Odin in his appearances by characters present is omnipotent.

So, based on what you wrote the first person to bring both the phrases omnipotent and nigh-omnipotent into the discussion was you, not me.

So the Celestials fit the bill?

And therefore beings that can contend with them fit that bill? (Galactus; Franklin Richards; Odin) And before you jump to the mention of Odin - apparently there was a Celestial Busting Spell in Asgard's library to be used by someone of Odin's blood to enchant a weapon to have the power to slay Celestials. Thor used it to enchant his axe - which a couple of centuries later was used to kill the Gardner in Uncanny Avengers.

Eitherway my perception of Nigh-Omnipotence is more so related to any beings with infinite power, that can shape reality (especially if they can create universes / pocket dimensions or promptly have individuals cease to exist) and more or less are powerful enough to do virtually anything they want. Odin fits that bill, Franklin Richards fits that bill (especially with those pocket universes he goes into to play god), the Celestials that bill and so do most abstracts like Galactus (can destroy universes as a byproduct of his big fights).

Feel free to disagree - but your definition of it is a lot more limited to say the least. Which is odd considering you don't have issues with calling RKT 'functionally' omniscient without possessing all knowledge in the multiverse. But whatever.

How have you managed to twist my words so badly? You even quoted me and then turned right around twisted what I said. Here's what I wrote:

To even be considered nigh-omnipotent you have to be a multi-versal reality warper. Thanos w/ HOTU is nigh-omnipotent, the Chousin from Tenchi Muyo! are nigh-omnipotent.

Do you see where I wrote multi-versal reality warper? So how would Odin count? Since when did he become a multi-versal reality warper?! Odin isn't even a universal reality warper. Odin can't create and/or destroy universes. When has he done this or shown that he's capable of doing this? Odin can't even stop ragnarok so how could he even be considered nigh-omnipotent even within the context of Asgard? And since when did Odin get "infinite power"? You think being able to create 1 single pocket dimension all of a sudden means you're nigh-omnipotent? lol. You're just playing fast and loose with the meaning of words to make Odin fight your definition of nigh-omnipotent. All you've done is lower the threshold for nigh-omnipotence so that Odin can meet it.

As for me saying that RKT is functionally omniscient, there are different levels to omniscience. With respect to Asgard, and only in that context, he's functionally omniscient. He has all practical knowledge pertaining to Ragnarok and how to stop it. Thus, Thor is not omniscient, he's functionally omniscient. The Chousin in Tenchi Muyo! are similar; they know everything it's possible to know outside the domain of Kami-Tenchi.

@uberhikari said:

So under your perception Celestials don't possess infinite power? Oky doky.

Wait, you do realize that there's a difference between saying someone has an infinite amount of power and saying that someone is infinitely powerful, right? I might have an infinite amount of power to fuel my rocket ship but that doesn't make my rocket ship infinitely powerful.

#50 Edited by Killemall (18556 posts) - - Show Bio

I was referring to the god officer's child - not quite sure what you're talking about.

Fair enough, i did not disagree i just said i dislike what the issue is trying to say because it really looks like they are trying to connect gods with bible version which marvel does not like.

I was referring to Odin recreating Asgard in Fear-Itself and by no means was it simply a floating continent(s). He was shaping a "world" under his admission.

I think you misunderstand to what i am disagreeing with you.

Lets requote you here:

So its the plural that i am disagreeing with.

He shaped Asgardia, which is the size of a us continent at best so yeah.

I hate to upload multiples of scans I've already uploaded - but what's one to do? Odin already put an emphasis on how easily the odinpower could shape worlds way before ragnarok to Thor who had inherited the power.

I wasnt arguing potential i was arguing the feat of creation was but a planet. There are other instance where he has apparently undone most of damange he wrought, but he has never created whole planetS on his own accord, in fact the fact that Cosmic cube being did create a planet while Odin didnt was stated to show they were superior to skyfather .

Unrelated but why is there a distinction between Elder God and normal Gods? after all they are created using EXACTLY the same energy from Demuirge.

The realms themselves in Avengers Prime were already established as existing in their own worlds (that's post Ragnarok continuity at-least) - as in not a couple of continents and even then the Twilight Sword was shown to easily warp all of them. Feel free to disagree.


Realm do exist in their own worlds, NOT all realms do though. 4 realms are connected in a single landmass called Asgardia. The reamining realms are are either a pocket dimension, or planets.

We have on multiple occasion actually seen a diagram of how 9 worlds are connected and never has 9 worlds been shown as 9 different realms, 4 realms are always shown as one landmass, and its size even according to scale has been shown in comics as well as bio.

With the Manchester Gods having killed themselves - the energy was isolated to the current universe - Surtur's attack otherwise wouldn't affect the multiverse without a method of distribution for those energies.

It wasnt anything to do with the distrubution of the blast, Surtur blast wasnt anywhere more powerful than universal, thats also at best. Its not just manchester gods power either, its where they rule.

Otherworld is a nexus to all reality and as such has huge amount of mystical energies within it, a nexus is more of a ticking bomb and can be exploited to cause bigger destruction than what your own power shows. Thats what happened in Havok instance where he destroyed the goblin force, thats how Phoenix was able to create lighthouse in all the multiverse or anti-phoenix nearly merged the whole multiverse into a singularity.

Those were continuity points, but this was even clearly stated in comics, by Surtur himself. In fact in the same scan you posted.

So it was akin to actually throwing a match inside a well of energy.

In fact the very next issue where Loki describes Surtur fire its called "universal"

So without a nexus of all magic to exploit from, same way many other have, Surtur's power was never potent enough to destroy the whole multiverse.

There is enough evidence to suggest it was actually BFRed into Asgardia space. Odin self exiled himself there, when Loki tricked him by pretending to be his wife Odin came to Asgard (well new man made Asgard that is) opening a portal from Asgard-space (old Asgard, or Serpents Asgard as it was later called).we actually see Odin redirect the energy to the same portal in the scan you posted.

Hope I don't come off as harsh - I'm just a bit nappy nappy now.

No you dont man, chill.