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#1 Edited by Lordlloyd7 (40 posts) - - Show Bio

Who's winning this!!

#2 Edited by ferventking (259 posts) - - Show Bio

Gaara. Toph needs to do Earth Bending forms in order to bend, Gaara does hand gestures and is more versatile(flight, clones etc). He can also create a huge section of desert which ruins Toph's ability to see/bend

#3 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh good match!

Gaara. Toph needs to do Earth Bending forms in order to bend, Gaara does hand gestures and is more versatile(flight, clones etc). He can also create a huge section of desert which ruins Toph's ability to see/bend

Most of this is wrong.

Toph masters Sand Bending as of Halfway of Season 3. Toph also does not need forms most times, like Bunni, she can Earth Bend with Face Gestures and Hand Movements, she has done it many times.

Add to this Toph is a master Metal bender at the end of Season 3 and can Bend Solid Earth, something Gara cannot manipulate.

Overall Toph has more versatility in Rock, Metal, Mud, and Sand Bending vs Garra's Sand only Justu. Toph is also Blind and can see in a dust storm or buried underground where Garra needs a opponent either in his sight or in his sand. Toph has in the show use this against foes before.

Finally Toph can and has toss around 200 ton boulders like paper weights. Gara needs time and effort to make a sand Tsunami, something Toph can counter as well.

One last big thing, Garra has chakra levels that run dry over a battles time. Toph can keep going as long she has physical stamina. Garra will quick before she does.

Toph wins.

#4 Posted by The Stegman (24648 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Gaara, but location could be a factor.

#5 Posted by Turtle_Soiree (31 posts) - - Show Bio

Gaara quite easily. He's able to keep up with the likes of The Yondaime Kazekage, Mu, Onoki, and was able to hold his own against Madara. Not to mention if he has Shukaku inside of him then it's just plain stomp. He'd just speed rush her and slit her throat with a kunai, then grind her body into a fine paste.

#6 Posted by The Stegman (24648 posts) - - Show Bio

Gaara quite easily. He's able to keep up with the likes of The Yondaime Kazekage, Mu, Onoki, and was able to hold his own against Madara. Not to mention if he has Shukaku inside of him then it's just plain stomp. He'd just speed rush her and slit her throat with a kunai, then grind her body into a fine paste.

I'm assuming it's no Shukaku, but with or without it, he still wins.

#7 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Gaara quite easily. He's able to keep up with the likes of The Yondaime Kazekage, Mu, Onoki, and was able to hold his own against Madara. Not to mention if he has Shukaku inside of him then it's just plain stomp. He'd just speed rush her and slit her throat with a kunai, then grind her body into a fine paste.

Speed Blitz her? He is not faster than she can perceive or act.

1) Naruto Verse characters are barely faster than a Arrow, way less than Mach 1.

2) Show me Garra Speed Blitzing anyone, he sits there in character while his shield does all the work of blocking.

#8 Edited by BlackWind (6498 posts) - - Show Bio

The amount of sand Gaara can control is far above that of Toph. He shielded the Sand viklage from a bomb that would have destroyed it. And even before the time skio during the SRA he created his own lake of sand. Toph isn't doing jack here when Gaara has so much more here to work with.

#9 Edited by Turtle_Soiree (31 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I'll give you the speed blitz, he's a lazy turd.

But from what I've seen everybody in the Avatar verse is barely at peak human (excluding a few of course), while the lowest genin takes on grown men with ease.

And I will bring up the movie. Don't think I won't :P

#10 Posted by The Stegman (24648 posts) - - Show Bio

The amount of sand Gaara can control is far above that of Toph. He shielded the Sand viklage from a bomb that would have destroyed it. And even before the time skio during the SRA he created his own lake of sand. Toph isn't doing jack here when Gaara has so much more here to work with.

This is why I ask what the location is. He protected the Sand Village, but he had a LOT of sand to work with. If they're fighting on ground, he can make more sand, but that takes time. However, I don't see anything that Toph can do that he can't block, I mean hell, he can even fly now.

#11 Posted by NeonGameWave (7794 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate.

#12 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11273 posts) - - Show Bio

All Gaara has to do is fly up and just shot her with constant barrages of Sand Bullets.

Speed Blitz her? He is not faster than she can perceive or act.

1) Naruto Verse characters are barely faster than a Arrow, way less than Mach 1.

2) Show me Garra Speed Blitzing anyone, he sits there in character while his shield does all the work of blocking.

You're kidding right

While Gaara is a slow character the same cannot be said about quite a few Naruto character.

#13 Posted by Funsiized (3716 posts) - - Show Bio

If gaara hits her with an aerial Move Before she Stomps his Face in, then He wins, vice Versa. But considering there Characters, Toph wins, She Takes the opponent out, even when shes not sure they are her opponent. Gaara gets a feel for hsi opponents abilties, Not something He has the leisure of against an earth bender.

Another way this turns out is Toph buries herself underground, and Gaara flys into the air, only difference is Gaara Runs out of Chaakra, and Toph knocks him out the moment he touches the ground.

Toph with Mid diff

Online
#14 Posted by mavfan626 (4130 posts) - - Show Bio

@turtle_soiree said:

Gaara quite easily. He's able to keep up with the likes of The Yondaime Kazekage, Mu, Onoki, and was able to hold his own against Madara. Not to mention if he has Shukaku inside of him then it's just plain stomp. He'd just speed rush her and slit her throat with a kunai, then grind her body into a fine paste.

Speed Blitz her? He is not faster than she can perceive or act.

1) Naruto Verse characters are barely faster than a Arrow, way less than Mach 1.

2) Show me Garra Speed Blitzing anyone, he sits there in character while his shield does all the work of blocking.

I don't know about Gaara speed blitzing anyone but his sand has protected him from being speed blitzed by Guy back in Naruto, Guy seemed to be faster then the eye could see.. I don't recall Toph or anyone in Avatar being that fast..

Imo he wouldn't need to speed blitz her because he can over power her, yes it will take time but Gaara will be able make time since his sand can pretty much sheild him from anything Toph can throw at him..

#15 Edited by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11273 posts) - - Show Bio

If gaara hits her with an aerial Move Before she Stomps his Face in, then He wins, vice Versa. But considering there Characters, Toph wins, She Takes the opponent out, even when shes not sure they are her opponent. Gaara gets a feel for hsi opponents abilties, Not something He has the leisure of against an earth bender.

Another way this turns out is Toph buries herself underground, and Gaara flys into the air, only difference is Gaara Runs out of Chaakra, and Toph knocks him out the moment he touches the ground.

Toph with Mid diff

Putting herself in the ground would be the WORST possible solution in the fight considering Gaara could turn all that rock around her into sand and well doing what he usually does to people he surrounds in sand.

#16 Posted by WHAT_DiiCK (195 posts) - - Show Bio

Toph has,to earth bend.... The sand protects at it's own will.... All he has to do is sink Toph into the sand and crush her alive via sand

burial

#17 Posted by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (10173 posts) - - Show Bio

While I do admit Toph is very skilled has the potential to beat Gaara, I still give it to Gaara 6-7/10

#18 Posted by ferventking (259 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Her bending with hand gestures and facial expressions is really unimpressive and almost always used as comic relief. In actual battles she uses the full body forms, always.

Metal bending is different from regular earth bending, in that the moments are much more clunky, she requires contact with the metal and she can't pull metal out of the ground. In all instances where she metal bent, the was a source of metal readily available, and given that she only carries around the metal bracelet, she's really limited.

Sandbenders have never shown the level of proficiency, sheer scale and versatility that Gaara regularly shows. They use sand to push along their sand ships.He creates an eyeball out of sand that he can see out of. To put it into perspective, Gaara would have pretty much been able to solo that airship fleet that Sokka, Suki and Toph took down during Phoenix King.

Gaara turns a large area into desert. Toph made a small platform of solid earth when she was trying to fight in the desert.

Flying, and huge sand constructs.

Sand shields an entire village. Shield survives bomb. Toph struggled to hold up that library.

He doesn't really require that much time and energy, as all three were done on call, and only in the last did he show exertion. His stamina reserves are quite large, considering he was bred and trained from birth to be a ninja, and was a former tailed beast host. Compare that to Toph, who is neither, and has average stamina..

#19 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I'll give you the speed blitz, he's a lazy turd.

But from what I've seen everybody in the Avatar verse is barely at peak human (excluding a few of course), while the lowest genin takes on grown men with ease.

And I will bring up the movie. Don't think I won't :P

.... Avatar have a movie?

Putting herself in the ground would be the WORST possible solution in the fight considering Gaara could turn all that rock around her into sand and well doing what he usually does to people he surrounds in sand.

Noty really, it takes Garra Time to do what your saying. also Toph can sand bend as well. She can control it as well undergorund and fling Garra a mile away like she has before.

I don't know about Gaara speed blitzing anyone but his sand has protected him from being speed blitzed by Guy back in Naruto, Guy seemed to be faster then the eye could see.. I don't recall Toph or anyone in Avatar being that fast..

Imo he wouldn't need to speed blitz her because he can over power her, yes it will take time but Gaara will be able make time since his sand can pretty much sheild him from anything Toph can throw at him..

This is the Problem, he has run out of Chakra using attacks, Toph can fight all day long with no lost of power while Garra gets weaker and weaker.

The amount of sand Gaara can control is far above that of Toph. He shielded the Sand viklage from a bomb that would have destroyed it. And even before the time skio during the SRA he created his own lake of sand. Toph isn't doing jack here when Gaara has so much more here to work with.

He can control a large portion, That is awesome... except if they fight in the Mountains. There is like no sand there and he has to waste Chakra and time to make sand. Ever thought of that scenario? Who said they are fighting in a desert?

Seriously, Toph is more versatile, does not get weaker in attacks as the battle drags on, and can redirect all of Garra's attacks with Sand Bending while attacking Garra with Earth, Mud, or Metal bending.

#20 Posted by Funsiized (3716 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#21 Posted by Noone301994 (5075 posts) - - Show Bio

The very fact that he's a ninja in the Naruto universe gives him an advantage. He can jump high, walk on walls, walk on water, use substitution jutsu or clones, and he has pinpoint accuracy. If he wanted he could just use substitution and after she destroys it and it disappears he could kill her from behind, or just spam it until he finds an opening, which he would.

#22 Posted by xlab3000 (3292 posts) - - Show Bio

Gaara

#23 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11273 posts) - - Show Bio

@thatguywithheadphones: Yes, Because she Can't just shift the Sand away...not at all.. oh wait.

The only Sand manipulation we saw from her is a 3 second trick when she made little ba sing se now from that little trick do you honestly believe she could out control Gaara with HIS sand.

#24 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

The very fact that he's a ninja in the Naruto universe gives him an advantage. He can jump high, walk on walls, walk on water, use substitution jutsu or clones, and he has pinpoint accuracy. If he wanted he could just use substitution and after she destroys it and it disappears he could kill her from behind, or just spam it until he finds an opening, which he would.

So the fact she sees all movement means Garra can sneak up on here? Far fetch dont ya think?

So how is he hiding from Toph?

I know Toph can hide from Garra. Toph has no Chakra for Garra to sense. none.

Toph wins this with Garra blinded.

Also when does Garra Run? Jump? Run on Water? He really does none of this. He stands around and lets his Shield do all the work.

#25 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11273 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@funsiized said:

@thatguywithheadphones: Yes, Because she Can't just shift the Sand away...not at all.. oh wait.

The only Sand manipulation we saw from her is a 3 second trick when she made little ba sing se now from that little trick do you honestly believe she could out control Gaara with HIS sand.

Yeah since she showed adept control of Sand enough to keep a castle size library from sinking into the earth at a rapid place. She can Sand Bend enough as a armature. she perfects it in season 3 with precise control.

She shown massive Scale and Precise Control.

Here she raises SOFT SAND from the beach floor and turn it to rock!

She held a castle size Library for 15 minuets in the, ready for it, SOFT SAND!

She can deal with Garra and turn all his Sand to rock! Naruto fans unite, Garra is outmatch by a avatar the last Air Bender Character.

#27 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Well he can fly so...

Wow, fly? That is so helpful... except Garra rarely uses it nor would have a chance. Lets forget the fact Toph since season 2 has gotten use to listen and peg target out of the air as well. Infact many characters who jump in the air to attack her or throw knives, she counters with hearing.

Garra is out class.

#28 Posted by mavfan626 (4130 posts) - - Show Bio

@mavfan626 said:

I don't know about Gaara speed blitzing anyone but his sand has protected him from being speed blitzed by Guy back in Naruto, Guy seemed to be faster then the eye could see.. I don't recall Toph or anyone in Avatar being that fast..

Imo he wouldn't need to speed blitz her because he can over power her, yes it will take time but Gaara will be able make time since his sand can pretty much sheild him from anything Toph can throw at him..

This is the Problem, he has run out of Chakra using attacks, Toph can fight all day long with no lost of power while Garra gets weaker and weaker.

One of current Gaara's Chakra endurance feats is protecting the Sunagakure Village from Deidara who was going to blow it bits, sure he pass out after that but Toph attacks are not going weaken Gaara Chakra over time.. she just not strong enough.. she has the skill but not the strength, Gaara will end up over powering her.

#29 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@mavfan626 said:

I don't know about Gaara speed blitzing anyone but his sand has protected him from being speed blitzed by Guy back in Naruto, Guy seemed to be faster then the eye could see.. I don't recall Toph or anyone in Avatar being that fast..

Imo he wouldn't need to speed blitz her because he can over power her, yes it will take time but Gaara will be able make time since his sand can pretty much sheild him from anything Toph can throw at him..

This is the Problem, he has run out of Chakra using attacks, Toph can fight all day long with no lost of power while Garra gets weaker and weaker.

One of current Gaara's Chakra endurance feats is protecting the Sunagakure Village from Deidara who was going to blow it bits, sure he pass out after that but Toph attacks are not going weaken Gaara Chakra over time.. she just not strong enough.. she has the skill but not the strength, Gaara will end up over powering her.

Possible.

#30 Edited by BaneStrokeLoboGrundyBatArrow (1394 posts) - - Show Bio

Garaa

#31 Posted by Marshall_Long (2092 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll give it to Gaara he has flight with his sand manipulation and Toph is blind and Can't sense anything unless it's on the ground so she is pretty much open for an mid air attack.

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#32 Posted by ghost_rider1 (3505 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

i must disagree here. Toph can bend earth but she cant bend gaara sand or defend herself from the level of sand gaara can maniupulate. Gaara uses chakra for his sand...so even tho toph can bend sand.............she CANT bend cbakra. And all ninjutsu is nothing more than transformed cbakra. So if gaara want to drown her in an ocean level of sand. She will be helpless because she cant bend the chakra that has been fused with the sand.

#33 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

i must disagree here. Toph can bend earth but she cant bend gaara sand or defend herself from the level of sand gaara can maniupulate. Gaara uses chakra for his sand...so even tho toph can bend sand.............she CANT bend cbakra. And all ninjutsu is nothing more than transformed cbakra. So if gaara want to drown her in an ocean level of sand. She will be helpless because she cant bend the chakra that has been fused with the sand.

Prove to me Chakra controled sand cannot be bended by someone who by magic means control anything made of Sand, Mud, Rock, or Metal.

Proof other than your expert opinion in make believe powers.

#34 Edited by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordlloyd7: Scenario?

Desert, mountain, etc.

Also, can we use end-of-the-series Toph? 'cuz she's kind of a BAMF.

#35 Edited by mavfan626 (4130 posts) - - Show Bio

Here is Gaara fighting his father, they both sand to fight one another but as you can see Gaara Chakra is Stronger then his father.. Sand manipulation strength was determined by Chakra strength.. (and strategy) if you were to convert Gaara feat into the Avatar Uni Toph wouldn't be the strongest Earth bender, Gaara would.. though if Toph was in the Naruto Uni she would be a extremely skilled character..

#36 Posted by oge321 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

Gaara can fly or at least levitate in the air makin him invisible to toph. Gaara wins

#37 Posted by mavfan626 (4130 posts) - - Show Bio

@oge321 said:

Gaara can fly or at least levitate in the air makin him invisible to toph. Gaara wins

If that was really the case, she would get hit by every airborne attack in Avatar.. she wouldn't be at a disadvantaged if Gaara took to the sky.. of course if Gaara stayed on the ground she would be able to sense attack better, that's all..

#38 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@mavfan626: Most of what you posted is base on the hopes Toph Bending works like Chakra. Also Toph was the second strongest Earth Bender in the show. Bummi being first.

@oge321 said:

Gaara can fly or at least levitate in the air makin him invisible to toph. Gaara wins

Toph has avoided thrown blades, accurately hit Giant Vultur Wasps, and learn to battle airborn opponents from all the Bahseng guys that do alot of jump attacks. She is obviously not at a instant lost to airborn foes who make tons of sounds from the sand grating in the sky :/.

@lordlloyd7: Scenario?

Desert, mountain, etc.

This is the make or break it scenario. Is this a Desert? Cave? A Mountain? Concrete Land? Forest? What.....

#39 Posted by XLR87T3 (2832 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghost_rider1 said:

@cadencev2:

i must disagree here. Toph can bend earth but she cant bend gaara sand or defend herself from the level of sand gaara can maniupulate. Gaara uses chakra for his sand...so even tho toph can bend sand.............she CANT bend cbakra. And all ninjutsu is nothing more than transformed cbakra. So if gaara want to drown her in an ocean level of sand. She will be helpless because she cant bend the chakra that has been fused with the sand.

Prove to me Chakra controled sand cannot be bended by someone who by magic means control anything made of Sand, Mud, Rock, or Metal.

Proof other than your expert opinion in make believe powers.

Hey Cadence, thanks for defending my girl Toph! I was afraid no one would do it, and I am not smart enough to put out feats like that.

#40 Posted by oge321 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mavfan626: @cadencev2: I agree with your statements but it also puts her at a huge disadvantage. Even if he was on the ground he makes very little movement, most of the time just standing there using his thoughts or whatever to move the chakra. That plus the fact that he is in the sky will make it really hard fr toph to land a blow.

His sand is constantly circling around and engulfs people. She might be able to hear it but has no clue how much of it there is for her to counter.

His sand in his giant special container thing has been infused with his chakra making it move and react faster to his commands.

#41 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlr87t3 said:
@cadencev2 said:

@ghost_rider1 said:

@cadencev2:

i must disagree here. Toph can bend earth but she cant bend gaara sand or defend herself from the level of sand gaara can maniupulate. Gaara uses chakra for his sand...so even tho toph can bend sand.............she CANT bend cbakra. And all ninjutsu is nothing more than transformed cbakra. So if gaara want to drown her in an ocean level of sand. She will be helpless because she cant bend the chakra that has been fused with the sand.

Prove to me Chakra controled sand cannot be bended by someone who by magic means control anything made of Sand, Mud, Rock, or Metal.

Proof other than your expert opinion in make believe powers.

Hey Cadence, thanks for defending my girl Toph! I was afraid no one would do it, and I am not smart enough to put out feats like that.

No prob. I do my best.

#42 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@oge321 said:

@mavfan626: @cadencev2: I agree with your statements but it also puts her at a huge disadvantage. Even if he was on the ground he makes very little movement, most of the time just standing there using his thoughts or whatever to move the chakra. That plus the fact that he is in the sky will make it really hard fr toph to land a blow.

His sand is constantly circling around and engulfs people. She might be able to hear it but has no clue how much of it there is for her to counter.

His sand in his giant special container thing has been infused with his chakra making it move and react faster to his commands.

Actually if you watch avatar, then you should remember Toph can see someone being stone still thanks to her Movement Echo. Even if it is her moving, she can see. Garra using sand movement, Toph will see the battlefield period. He goes airborn, it makes sounds of grating sand.

she can throw huge masses of Boulders his way. She can Create a Dust Storm making herself invisible to Garra.

ANYTHING Garra can do, she can and has countered in Avatar the Last Airbender.

#43 Edited by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11273 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:Toph has avoided thrown blades, accurately hit Giant Vultur Wasps, and learn to battle airborn opponents from all the Bahseng guys that do alot of jump attacks. She is obviously not at a instant lost to airborn foes who make tons of sounds from the sand grating in the sky :

Even with her great hearing ability I doubt that will save from a constant barrage of Sand bullets that she won't be ability to see.

#44 Posted by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

Gaara:

Sand Coffin + Desert Funeral = WIN

Seriously, he can fight while fully protected by using his wards.

#45 Posted by Juiceboks (9309 posts) - - Show Bio

Good fight but I believe Gaara has her in versatility and skill. Anything she can throw at him he can block while the same can't be said for her.

#46 Posted by oge321 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: the dust storm she he might be able to control, but we'll both assume he can't. He can just send his sand in there from every direction until he hits her.

Idk how good her hearing is but I bet he can use enough sand to distort it

Also in the air toph is forced to use range or try to get close both he can easily counter.

He can do both offense and defense at the same time. That is Something anyone will have a hard time to fight.

#47 Edited by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

ANYTHING Garra can do, she can and has countered in Avatar the Last Airbender.

I didn't watch avatar so I'm not fully sure what Toph is capable of but can she do this: Skip to 31:52

#48 Posted by sync1 (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

Gaara takes the win. He has many good offensive feats.

#49 Posted by The_PAIN (720 posts) - - Show Bio

Add shukaku and it will be a complete murder.

#50 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Well here some scans.

@oge321 said:

Raises MASSIVE Stone Wall in a second.

Flattens a whole Mountain with a hand Gesture.

Hears and Blocks Arrows shot at her.

After a few tries Toph was accurately hitting these "FLYING" targets.

A whole Scene of her blocking and reacting to Airborn Attacks!

Reacts and blocks flying rocks heading at her!

React to Catapults attacks, and accurately hits the enemy ships weapons!

So this whole BS argument of "Toph is blind, she cannot see air attacks." or "Toph cannot controle that much land at a time" is all BS.

Or Toph can EASY capture Garra like this at the start of the battle.

Seriously people, Toph has this.