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#1 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio
 
 














Battle on Namek who will win it?

#2 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Frieza will win.

#3 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooler easily. the films state he is far more powerful than his little brother. He even reached his species fifth transformation, a feat never accomplished by Frieza. 
 
Cooler Curbstomps him.
#4 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio

But Cooler was no match for SS Goku  whereas frieza was a match for him.

#5 Posted by konnick33x (23 posts) - - Show Bio
@SwaggaB0y said:
"But Cooler was no match for SS Goku  whereas frieza was a match for him. "

good point, both of you.
#6 Edited by comicbookguy (281 posts) - - Show Bio

cooler with ease it was even stated in the first film that cooler was in  that that frezia use to be slightly more powerful, but  than cooler found another transformation after that which far outclasses freizas best
#7 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@SwaggaB0y said:
"But Cooler was no match for SS Goku  whereas frieza was a match for him. "

Frieza fought him when goku had just become a SS. therefore he didn't have full grasp of his abilities, plus he was already injured due to their pro-longed battle. 
 
Cooler fought Kakarot when he was in peak conditions. 
#8 Posted by konnick33x (23 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
"@SwaggaB0y said:
"But Cooler was no match for SS Goku  whereas frieza was a match for him. "
Frieza fought him when goku had just become a SS. therefore he didn't have full grasp of his abilities, plus he was already injured due to their pro-longed battle.  Cooler fought Kakarot when he was in peak conditions.  "

that's true
#9 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio

ok but coolers form that was above friezas  was no match for SS Goku but friezas form  the weaker form was even maybe even stronger then SS Goku.

#10 Posted by konnick33x (23 posts) - - Show Bio

I guess it depends on how quick the battle is, since Frieza can't fight at 100% power for very long.
#11 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio
@konnick33x said:
" I guess it depends on how quick the battle is, since Frieza can't fight at 100% power for very long. "
he didn't look like he had a problem fighting at 100%
#12 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" @SwaggaB0y said:
"But Cooler was no match for SS Goku  whereas frieza was a match for him. "
Frieza fought him when goku had just become a SS. therefore he didn't have full grasp of his abilities, plus he was already injured due to their pro-longed battle.  Cooler fought Kakarot when he was in peak conditions.  "
Goku didn't have full grasp of his abilites against cooler either because he had to wait till his emotions got out of had which caused him to transform.
#13 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@SwaggaB0y said:
"ok but coolers form that was above friezas  was no match for SS Goku but friezas form  the weaker form was even maybe even stronger then SS Goku. "

no it wasn't, Goku was badly Injured and on the verge of losing till he went SS. and like I said He was still new to SS, he was the first SS in years, so of course he didn't know the full extent of his powers in that form yet. 
 
Yes Cooler's fifth form is stronger than Frieza, but you are missing the point here Cooler had to face a peak conditioned Goku who was fully versed in his SS capabilties, if Frieza had fought the Goku that Cooler fought, Frieza would have been wrecked.
#14 Posted by konnick33x (23 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
"@SwaggaB0y said:
"ok but coolers form that was above friezas  was no match for SS Goku but friezas form  the weaker form was even maybe even stronger then SS Goku. "
no it wasn't, Goku was badly Injured and on the verge of losing till he went SS. and like I said He was still new to SS, he was the first SS in years, so of course he didn't know the full extent of his powers in that form yet.  Yes Cooler's fifth form is stronger than Frieza, but you are missing the point here Cooler had to face a peak conditioned Goku who was fully versed in his SS capabilties, if Frieza had fought the Goku that Cooler fought, Frieza would have been wrecked. "

True, I think Cooler wins this then.
#15 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio

not really it doesn't matter once Goku went SS its was like he was a fresh to the fight at least thats how it seemed he  didn't complain about being weak or his body was giving out on him like he does in most of his fights. Cooler was even getting beat by Kiao Ken before he transformed  Kiao Ken was nothing for frieza.

#16 Edited by comicbookguy (281 posts) - - Show Bio
@SwaggaB0y said:

"ok but coolers form that was above friezas  was no match for SS Goku but friezas form  the weaker form was even maybe even stronger then SS Goku. "


well i wouldnt say it was no match there wasnt really a fight all that happened was ssj goku was able to hurt cooler with a punch then cooler went for the death ball or whatever its called and goku did have trouble pushing it back, and like others have said it was the first time goku had used ssj against freiza and he was injured while against cooler it wasnt a particuarly long fight and he had a better grasp on what a ssj could do.
#17 Edited by randumo24 (4655 posts) - - Show Bio
@SwaggaB0y said:

"not really it doesn't matter once Goku went SS its was like he was a fresh to the fight at least thats how it seemed he  didn't complain about being weak or his body was giving out on him like he does in most of his fights. Cooler was even getting beat by Kiao Ken before he transformed  Kiao Ken was nothing for frieza. "


yup, although he did lose some power.
#18 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio
@randumo24 said:
" @SwaggaB0y said:

"not really it doesn't matter once Goku went SS its was like he was a fresh to the fight at least thats how it seemed he  didn't complain about being weak or his body was giving out on him like he does in most of his fights. Cooler was even getting beat by Kiao Ken before he transformed  Kiao Ken was nothing for frieza. "

yup, although he did lose some power. "

Cooler couldn't even punch Goku  thats how sad he was.
#19 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@SwaggaB0y said:
"not really it doesn't matter once Goku went SS its was like he was a fresh to the fight at least thats how it seemed he  didn't complain about being weak or his body was giving out on him like he does in most of his fights. Cooler was even getting beat by Kiao Ken before he transformed  Kiao Ken was nothing for frieza. "

Goku, at later levels of the Kaio Ken is a monster. 
When he fought Frieza in Kaio Ken, He wasn't in peak Kaio Ken conditions, The Kaio Ken is not be triffled with, it has rocked the likes of far better opponents then Frieza, (Buu being one of them). His Kaio Ken got better, Just like his SS tranformation got better as the series progressed.
#20 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku used Kaio Ken as soon as he began fighting frieza piccolo later explained that to krillin because he was wondering why he didn't see the red aura. after the Frieza Saga Kaio Ken is a joke  thats why he never uses it I mean why use it when he can Go SS at will, In the Cooler moive he couldn't control his SS transformation thats why he used KK against him and Cooler was getting rocked by it which is sad.

#21 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@SwaggaB0y said:
"Goku used Kaio Ken as soon as he began fighting frieza piccolo later explained that to krillin because he was wondering why he didn't see the red aura. after the Frieza Saga Kaio Ken is a joke  thats why he never uses it I mean why use it when he can Go SS at will, In the Cooler moive he couldn't control his SS transformation thats why he used KK against him and Cooler was getting rocked by it which is sad. "

dude Kaio Ken. has proven to be pownage. Judging more power is redicoulous.  
 
alright. take this example. Goku beat Kid Buu (supposedly at the time the most powerful force of evil in the DBU) in SS1 form. 
it just shows, that it depends on how well he is using the abilities not the power of the stages themselves.
#22 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" @SwaggaB0y said:
"Goku used Kaio Ken as soon as he began fighting frieza piccolo later explained that to krillin because he was wondering why he didn't see the red aura. after the Frieza Saga Kaio Ken is a joke  thats why he never uses it I mean why use it when he can Go SS at will, In the Cooler moive he couldn't control his SS transformation thats why he used KK against him and Cooler was getting rocked by it which is sad. "
dude Kaio Ken. has proven to be pownage. Judging more power is redicoulous.   alright. take this example. Goku beat Kid Buu (supposedly at the time the most powerful force of evil in the DBU) in SS1 form. it just shows, that it depends on how well he is using the abilities not the power of the stages themselves. "

Goku used a Sprit bomb and since Kid buu was pushing it back he detonated it with a SS1 energy blast. Goku CANNOT use Kaio ken and defeat anyone that is SS or highter level that why he doesn't use it.


Kaio ken was only useful against Vegeta and Captain Ginyu.

#23 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@SwaggaB0y said:
"@Caligula said:
" @SwaggaB0y said:
"Goku used Kaio Ken as soon as he began fighting frieza piccolo later explained that to krillin because he was wondering why he didn't see the red aura. after the Frieza Saga Kaio Ken is a joke  thats why he never uses it I mean why use it when he can Go SS at will, In the Cooler moive he couldn't control his SS transformation thats why he used KK against him and Cooler was getting rocked by it which is sad. "
dude Kaio Ken. has proven to be pownage. Judging more power is redicoulous.   alright. take this example. Goku beat Kid Buu (supposedly at the time the most powerful force of evil in the DBU) in SS1 form. it just shows, that it depends on how well he is using the abilities not the power of the stages themselves. "

Goku used a Sprit bomb and since Kid buu was pushing it back he detonated it with a SS1 energy blast. Goku CANNOT use Kaio ken and defeat anyone that is SS or highter level that why he doesn't use it.


Kaio ken was only useful against Vegeta and Captain Ginyu.

"

He hasn't defeated any top-tiers with Kaio Ken that are SS lvl or higher, but he has rocked them. 
and you yet again fail to comprehend my point. 
which is even, Top-Tiers have been hurt by the Kaio-Ken tech. ( I never said, he defeated any of them with it). but it didn't beat Cooler either genious, so your point is Invalid
#24 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio

wait which top tiers has he fought using Kaio ken???????

only person he was rocking while using Kaio ken was vegeta and Ginyu (i don't even think they fought really lol) everyone else after that he entered the battle was a super saiyan or higher I don't recall him ever using Kaio Ken after the Frieza saga.

#25 Posted by MisterGuyMan (1953 posts) - - Show Bio

Freeza's peak power level was lower than Goku's power level as a SS.  That's straight from the the encyclopedia.  Freeza also couldn't hold his transformation long.
 
Remember that Goku was hurt in his battle with Freeza.  Therefore the recovered Goku that Cooler fought was more powerful.  Remember that Saiyans get more powerful after fighting battles.  Cooler also knows instant transmission.

#26 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooler knew it during his metal cooler form I thought.

#27 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@SwaggaB0y said:
"

wait which top tiers has he fought using Kaio ken???????

only person he was rocking while using Kaio ken was vegeta and Ginyu (i don't even think they fought really lol) everyone else after that he entered the battle was a super saiyan or higher I don't recall him ever using Kaio Ken after the Frieza saga.

"

try Uub and Buu. he used it on both of them, Uub>>>>Frieza&Cooler, Buu>>>>>Frieza&Cooler 
 
face your boy loses.
#28 Posted by MisterGuyMan (1953 posts) - - Show Bio

KK is Super Saiyan beta.  The highest level of KK multiplies Goku's abilities by 20.  SS multiplies by a factor of 50.
 
It's not really stated if Goku can use KK as a SS but it doesn't seem likely.  If he could a lot of battles would have been easy.

#29 Posted by comicbookguy (281 posts) - - Show Bio
@MisterGuyMan said:

"KK is Super Saiyan beta.  The highest level of KK multiplies Goku's abilities by 20.  SS multiplies by a factor of 50.  It's not really stated if Goku can use KK as a SS but it doesn't seem likely.  If he could a lot of battles would have been easy. "


i think i remember  that he used them both together for like one attack in the fight against pikkon but it was only a filler episode, this is what it says on dragon ball wiki "Goku's battle against Frieza is the last time the Kaio-ken is used in the series, as the introduction of Super Saiyan outclassed it. However, in the filler fight against Pikkon, Goku uses the Kaio-ken and full power super saiyan combination (something he calls a Super Kaio-ken), which gave him an incredible power increase. Goku also demonstrated the Kaio-ken's usability in transformed states, which potentially means he can make his transformed forms (including Super Saiyan 4) many times stronger. However, it can be argued that using Kaio-Ken in transformed states could seriously injure or even kill him. This is evident in that the already-dead Goku was exhausted after performing the technique. This "Super Kaioken" was only used once and it punched Pikkon straight through the moon orbiting the tournament stage"    
#30 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" @SwaggaB0y said:
"

wait which top tiers has he fought using Kaio ken???????

only person he was rocking while using Kaio ken was vegeta and Ginyu (i don't even think they fought really lol) everyone else after that he entered the battle was a super saiyan or higher I don't recall him ever using Kaio Ken after the Frieza saga.

"
try Uub and Buu. he used it on both of them, Uub>>>>Frieza&Cooler, Buu>>>>>Frieza&Cooler  face your boy loses. "

Uub if he did he was fighting to kill him he was training him so he can control his power.

when did he use Kaio Ken against buu?

Also you're comparing a stronger version of goku to when he fought cooler and frieza?

#31 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@SwaggaB0y said:
"@Caligula said:
" @SwaggaB0y said:
"

wait which top tiers has he fought using Kaio ken???????

only person he was rocking while using Kaio ken was vegeta and Ginyu (i don't even think they fought really lol) everyone else after that he entered the battle was a super saiyan or higher I don't recall him ever using Kaio Ken after the Frieza saga.

"
try Uub and Buu. he used it on both of them, Uub>>>>Frieza&Cooler, Buu>>>>>Frieza&Cooler  face your boy loses. "

Uub if he did he was fighting to kill him he was training him so he can control his power.

when did he use Kaio Ken against buu?

Also you're comparing a stronger version of goku to when he fought cooler and frieza?

"

no duh. genius that's exactly my point, it what you are doing. 
you are saying that Goku who beat Frieza = Goku who beat Cooler. 
WRONG! 
Goku was stronger when he fought Cooler.
#32 Posted by TheSavageAssasin (2761 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooler takes this.

#33 Posted by Aronmorales (9434 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooler, 1. he's stronger.
2. he's cooler, pun intended.

#34 Posted by CortSether (1821 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooler stomps Freeza even in his base form. 
 
Let's see, in the movie Cooler has shown to have mastery over his power which is why he is able to hang around in his base form, then there's the fact that he can gather energy faster than Freeza and can also suppress his power levels so low that he was able to sneak up on Piccolo and Goku without them being able to sense him. The FUNI dub line where Cooler says "Freeza had the edge" is dub crapp, nothing of that sort is mentioned in the TOEI dub, the original source which is what is used as the canon reference, so Cooler was stronger even in his base form. His henchman Sauza even refers to him as "the most illustrious fighter in the universe". 
 
Not to mention the fact that Cooler was fighting a Goku much stronger than the one that was on Namek fighting Freeza. It was stated in the beginning of the movie that Goku had gotten a huge zenkai "power up" after his battle with Freeza. Then, later in the movie Goku almost gets one-shotted by Cooler when trying to protect Gohan and then eats a Senzu bean, receiving another huge power up. Cooler even said Goku powered up in base was enough to beat Freeza and when Cooler transformed he was charging through Goku's Kamehameha like it was nothing and totally beating the crap out of him. 
 
The order goes like this. 
 
SSJ Goku post-Namek > Final Form Cooler > SSJ Goku on Namek = SSJ Trunks > Freeza 100% > Cooler Base Form suppressed > Freeza Base Form suppressed.

#35 Posted by The_Martian (36980 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooler stated that Frieza was stronger than him until Cooler found the "next stage". I think this made him slightly higher than Frieza in power.

#36 Posted by cracks (6781 posts) - - Show Bio

I cool my ice cream in my freezer.

#37 Posted by FLCL1 (9581 posts) - - Show Bio

cooler
#38 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooler said Frieza had the edge until Cooler found the next stage.  He also said he gathers energy faster than his brother when he used the death ball which is another indication he is better/stronger/etc.  I think Frieza 100% would put up a good fight against Cooler's final stage.  I have strong reason to believe that Cooler probably didn't know about Frieza's true 100% power because it seemed not even Frieza knew if he could beat Goku with it or not (probably didnt go 100% much).  Rather than Cooler bulker up like Frieza did he transformed instead...perhaps this ability to go 100% is Frieza exclusive.  
 
If I was a betting man I'd go with Cooler just because they tend to make the villains stronger than the previous ones, not weaker.   Then again...Frieza 100% was pretty buffed and the power up was impressive.  He looks like he had steroids injected into every area of his body even his tail...He might just take this after all...especially at 7:10.
 

 
 

#39 Posted by Perfect Cell (3470 posts) - - Show Bio

4th form Frieza is more powerful than 4th form Cooler. However, Cooler has a faster gathering rate and can compress energy better than Frieza. I just think that Frieza has a higher fighting spirit and is faster.
 
5th form Cooler is a step over Frieza at his 100% full power mode therefore Cooler wins this.
 
Geti Star Mecha Cooler is probably in the same league as 2nd form Cell. Only smarter, more versatile, with instant regeneration, warp speed capabilities and able to multiple 1000's of himself. However, all is powered by the Geti Star, which is indeed the real Cooler. Destroy that thing and its over.

#40 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:
"Cooler said Frieza had the edge until Cooler found the next stage.  He also said he gathers energy faster than his brother when he used the death ball which is another indication he is better/stronger/etc.  I think Frieza 100% would put up a good fight against Cooler's final stage.  I have strong reason to believe that Cooler probably didn't know about Frieza's true 100% power because it seemed not even Frieza knew if he could beat Goku with it or not (probably didnt go 100% much).  Rather than Cooler bulker up like Frieza did he transformed instead...perhaps this ability to go 100% is Frieza exclusive.  
 
If I was a betting man I'd go with Cooler just because they tend to make the villains stronger than the previous ones, not weaker.   Then again...Frieza 100% was pretty buffed and the power up was impressive.  He looks like he had steroids injected into every area of his body even his tail...He might just take this after all...especially at 7:10.
 

 
 
"

that's only in the American Dub, the Original Japanese says nothing about Frieza having an "Edge".
#41 Posted by ThanosIsMad (2168 posts) - - Show Bio

If you go by what was stated, then Cooler has the power advantage. Going by feats, Frieza would take it.

#42 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:

" @Klandicar said:

"Cooler said Frieza had the edge until Cooler found the next stage.  He also said he gathers energy faster than his brother when he used the death ball which is another indication he is better/stronger/etc.  I think Frieza 100% would put up a good fight against Cooler's final stage.  I have strong reason to believe that Cooler probably didn't know about Frieza's true 100% power because it seemed not even Frieza knew if he could beat Goku with it or not (probably didnt go 100% much).  Rather than Cooler bulker up like Frieza did he transformed instead...perhaps this ability to go 100% is Frieza exclusive.  
 
If I was a betting man I'd go with Cooler just because they tend to make the villains stronger than the previous ones, not weaker.   Then again...Frieza 100% was pretty buffed and the power up was impressive.  He looks like he had steroids injected into every area of his body even his tail...He might just take this after all...especially at 7:10.
 

 
 

"
that's only in the American Dub, the Original Japanese says nothing about Frieza having an "Edge". "
He had to have had an edge though anyway.  Common sense.  If he didn't have an edge why was Frieza the strongest in the Universe during the Namek saga?  Cooler was on the backburner during that time because he was only second best.  Cooler's new form is stronger than Frieza obviously, but at the same form Frieza was better.  And Cooler was just a disapointment because Goku owned him so fast and Frieza has better feats.
#43 Posted by Vance Astro (90726 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooler.

Moderator
#44 Posted by BGSMasPoderoso (10 posts) - - Show Bio

Kulah Initial Appearance VS Freezer Final Form 70%: Kulah

Kulah Initial Appearance VS Freezer Final Form 100%: Japanese Version - Kulah, American Dubbed Version: Freezer

Kulah Initial Appearance VS Mecha Freezer: Japanese Version - Kulah, American Dubbed Version: Freezer

Final Form Kulah VS Mecha Freezer: Kulah, Flawlessly

Big Gheti Star Kulah VS Mecha Freezer: Kulah, GODSHITSTOMP

#45 Posted by Web_Flotsam (935 posts) - - Show Bio

@Caligula

said:

"

@Klandicar

said:

"Cooler said Frieza had the edge until Cooler found the next stage. He also said he gathers energy faster than his brother when he used the death ball which is another indication he is better/stronger/etc. I think Frieza 100% would put up a good fight against Cooler's final stage. I have strong reason to believe that Cooler probably didn't know about Frieza's true 100% power because it seemed not even Frieza knew if he could beat Goku with it or not (probably didnt go 100% much). Rather than Cooler bulker up like Frieza did he transformed instead...perhaps this ability to go 100% is Frieza exclusive.

If I was a betting man I'd go with Cooler just because they tend to make the villains stronger than the previous ones, not weaker. Then again...Frieza 100% was pretty buffed and the power up was impressive. He looks like he had steroids injected into every area of his body even his tail...He might just take this after all...especially at 7:10.



"
that's only in the American Dub, the Original Japanese says nothing about Frieza having an "Edge". "

He had to have had an edge though anyway. Common sense. If he didn't have an edge why was Frieza the strongest in the Universe during the Namek saga? Cooler was on the backburner during that time because he was only second best. Cooler's new form is stronger than Frieza obviously, but at the same form Frieza was better. And Cooler was just a disapointment because Goku owned him so fast and Frieza has better feats.

Freeza was the strongest in the universe in the Namek saga because Cooler isn't canon.

And while I'm here, Cooler wins, not just due to his power advantage but because he can gather energy faster and has proven himself to be much more intelligent.

#46 Posted by russellmania77 (13565 posts) - - Show Bio

@web_flotsam: I would say frieza cuz he has a lot more durable feats like surviving nameks explosion (while almost dead) n he does say he increased his power when he got to earth n I would say his word is as good as cooler's

#47 Posted by Web_Flotsam (935 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77: Yes, but Cooler takes Goku down in one hit at one or two percent. Freeza shot Goku dozens of times at the same percentage and Goku just swats them away. Also, feats are kind of meaningless in DBZ, as we all know Cell is stronger than Freeza, but he never survived a planetary explosion. You also have to remember that Cooler only had a movie (and a short one at that) while Freeza had an entire series to show off his power.

#48 Edited by russellmania77 (13565 posts) - - Show Bio

@web_flotsam: 1 percent ?? ... Anyways at 100% cooler couldn't even make goku flinch or move an inch when he went Ssj and frieza at 100 at least was able to with stand kamehameha for a sec n then knock goku into the ocean

#49 Edited by Web_Flotsam (935 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77 said:

@web_flotsam: 1 percent ?? ... Anyways at 100% cooler couldn't even make goku flinch or move an inch when he went Ssj and frieza at 100 at least was able to with stand kamehameha for a sec n then knock goku into the ocean

Yes, Cooler was at one percent of his fourth form's full power for most of the movie and only raised his power to full to fight Goku. Also, remember when Freeza and King Cold came to Earth and Trunks killed them without breaking a sweat? And then Goku came back and blocked all of Trunk's attacks with one finger? This is that Goku, not the one who fought Freeza.

By the way, nice name. :D

#50 Posted by dondave (26572 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooler ftw