Frieza Final Form vs Cooler Original Form

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

" @Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

Yeah, the SSJ Goku he was fighting was far stronger than the SSJ Goku Freeza was facing. Even still, Cooler was almost able to kill Goku with the Supernova, saying a lot about his power level right there.  "

@Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

On Namek Goku was easily more powerful than Freiza as a Super Saiyan, while at base, his max amount of kaoken only equalled half of Freiza's power.... 
 
Goku was already far stronger than Freiza in that fight, and he knew it.... Which is why he stopped the fight and left........ 
 
Before he left, Freiza attacked him from behind, so Goku sliced Freiza in half, but then lended him just enough Ki to escape the plant as it was about to explode, the nGoku hopped in a saiyan pod that took him to the Yadrats..... 
 
 
@Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

This doesn't prove solidly that Goku at Base could defeat the Freiza from Namek. It only states that Cooler was impressed with Goku's power.
 
@Prince CortSether said:

" @Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

Yeah, the SSJ Goku he was fighting was far stronger than the SSJ Goku Freeza was facing. Even still, Cooler was almost able to kill Goku with the Supernova, saying a lot about his power level right there.  "

SSJ Goku was stronger than previous SSJ goku, but that doesn't mean his base was higher than previous Freiza. Goku didn't even almost die in his fight with Freiza, he came out of it the superior warrior, but it wasn't a near death experience...... So his base was boosted... But not to the level that it would beat freiza........ 
 
The Death Ball Cooler threw made Goku work at saving wearth, but it didn't nearly kill him..... 
 
Cooler at his 4th transformation wasn't even able to scratch SS Goku....... His death ball was about to destroy the Earth... Goku took most of the damage while he was in base, doing kaoken............

"

@Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

On Namek Goku was easily more powerful than Freiza as a Super Saiyan, while at base, his max amount of kaoken only equalled half of Freiza's power.... 
 
Goku was already far stronger than Freiza in that fight, and he knew it.... Which is why he stopped the fight and left........ 
 
Before he left, Freiza attacked him from behind, so Goku sliced Freiza in half, but then lended him just enough Ki to escape the plant as it was about to explode, the nGoku hopped in a saiyan pod that took him to the Yadrats..... 
 
 
@Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

This doesn't prove solidly that Goku at Base could defeat the Freiza from Namek. It only states that Cooler was impressed with Goku's power. 
 
All we have to gauge is that Goku did well enough to beat Freeza and that Cooler would not about that power, and all things point to Cooler knowing.
 
@Prince CortSether said:

" @Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

Yeah, the SSJ Goku he was fighting was far stronger than the SSJ Goku Freeza was facing. Even still, Cooler was almost able to kill Goku with the Supernova, saying a lot about his power level right there.  "

SSJ Goku was stronger than previous SSJ goku, but that doesn't mean his base was higher than previous Freiza. Goku didn't even almost die in his fight with Freiza, he came out of it the superior warrior, but it wasn't a near death experience...... So his base was boosted... But not to the level that it would beat freiza........  
 
Goku got a near 40x zenkai when healed from the senzu bean in Movie 5 after being near one-shotted by Cooler in the back with his Death Ray. When on Namek Goku got a 33x zenkai in the healing chamber that brought his power from 90,000 to 3,000,000 so he could stand up to Freeza. At the beginning of Movie 5 Goku's power level should be somewhere in the 3,000,000+ range. Then when he takes the senzu after almost dying he gets a zenkai that lets him fight Cooler head on Cooler says it's powerful enough to beat Freeza, meaning his zenkai has to be at least 40 to be over Freeza's max power level of 120,000,000.  
 
If you think Goku was near the same power level in base as he was against Freeza then that would mean Cooler would have to believe Freeza could get taken out by someone with a power level of 3,000,000 which is absurd.
 
The Death Ball Cooler threw made Goku work at saving wearth, but it didn't nearly kill him.....  
It caved Goku into the ground and was burrowing into the earth before Goku was able to fire the kamehameha, and Goku looked like he was struggling his butt off to do it. Heck, he braced for it before Cooler through it at him and it still knocked him from mid air all the way into the ground and then some. If he was unable to deflect the supernova back, he along with everyone would have died when the planet exploded. 
 
Cooler at his 4th transformation wasn't even able to scratch SS Goku....... His death ball was about to destroy the Earth... Goku took most of the damage while he was in base, doing kaoken............

SSj Goku was far stronger which is why Cooler couldn't bust him up. Goku flat out states that Cooler is stronger than Freeza anyway so we know that must be the case that Goku got stronger in the course of the Movie (namely from the senzu bean). 
 
 "

" @velle37 said:

"

@Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

On Namek Goku was easily more powerful than Freiza as a Super Saiyan, while at base, his max amount of kaoken only equalled half of Freiza's power.... 
 
Goku was already far stronger than Freiza in that fight, and he knew it.... Which is why he stopped the fight and left........ 
 
Before he left, Freiza attacked him from behind, so Goku sliced Freiza in half, but then lended him just enough Ki to escape the plant as it was about to explode, the nGoku hopped in a saiyan pod that took him to the Yadrats..... 
 
 
@Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

This doesn't prove solidly that Goku at Base could defeat the Freiza from Namek. It only states that Cooler was impressed with Goku's power. 
 
All we have to gauge is that Goku did well enough to beat Freeza and that Cooler would not about that power, and all things point to Cooler knowing.
 
@Prince CortSether said:

" @Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

Yeah, the SSJ Goku he was fighting was far stronger than the SSJ Goku Freeza was facing. Even still, Cooler was almost able to kill Goku with the Supernova, saying a lot about his power level right there.  "

SSJ Goku was stronger than previous SSJ goku, but that doesn't mean his base was higher than previous Freiza. Goku didn't even almost die in his fight with Freiza, he came out of it the superior warrior, but it wasn't a near death experience...... So his base was boosted... But not to the level that it would beat freiza........  
 
Goku got a near 40x zenkai when healed from the senzu bean in Movie 5 after being near one-shotted by Cooler in the back with his Death Ray. When on Namek Goku got a 33x zenkai in the healing chamber that brought his power from 90,000 to 3,000,000 so he could stand up to Freeza. At the beginning of Movie 5 Goku's power level should be somewhere in the 3,000,000+ range. Then when he takes the senzu after almost dying he gets a zenkai that lets him fight Cooler head on Cooler says it's powerful enough to beat Freeza, meaning his zenkai has to be at least 40 to be over Freeza's max power level of 120,000,000.  
 
If you think Goku was near the same power level in base as he was against Freeza then that would mean Cooler would have to believe Freeza could get taken out by someone with a power level of 3,000,000 which is absurd.
 
The Death Ball Cooler threw made Goku work at saving wearth, but it didn't nearly kill him.....  
It caved Goku into the ground and was burrowing into the earth before Goku was able to fire the kamehameha, and Goku looked like he was struggling his butt off to do it. Heck, he braced for it before Cooler through it at him and it still knocked him from mid air all the way into the ground and then some. If he was unable to deflect the supernova back, he along with everyone would have died when the planet exploded. 
 
Cooler at his 4th transformation wasn't even able to scratch SS Goku....... His death ball was about to destroy the Earth... Goku took most of the damage while he was in base, doing kaoken............

SSj Goku was far stronger which is why Cooler couldn't bust him up. Goku flat out states that Cooler is stronger than Freeza anyway so we know that must be the case that Goku got stronger in the course of the Movie (namely from the senzu bean). 
 
 "

"

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

"

@Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

On Namek Goku was easily more powerful than Freiza as a Super Saiyan, while at base, his max amount of kaoken only equalled half of Freiza's power.... 
 
Goku was already far stronger than Freiza in that fight, and he knew it.... Which is why he stopped the fight and left........ 
 
Before he left, Freiza attacked him from behind, so Goku sliced Freiza in half, but then lended him just enough Ki to escape the plant as it was about to explode, the nGoku hopped in a saiyan pod that took him to the Yadrats..... 

 
 
@Prince CortSether

said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

This doesn't prove solidly that Goku at Base could defeat the Freiza from Namek. It only states that Cooler was impressed with Goku's power. 
 
All we have to gauge is that Goku did well enough to beat Freeza and that Cooler would not about that power, and all things point to Cooler knowing.

 
@Prince CortSether

said:

" @Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

Yeah, the SSJ Goku he was fighting was far stronger than the SSJ Goku Freeza was facing. Even still, Cooler was almost able to kill Goku with the Supernova, saying a lot about his power level right there.  "

SSJ Goku was stronger than previous SSJ goku, but that doesn't mean his base was higher than previous Freiza. Goku didn't even almost die in his fight with Freiza, he came out of it the superior warrior, but it wasn't a near death experience...... So his base was boosted... But not to the level that it would beat freiza........  
 
Goku got a near 40x zenkai when healed from the senzu bean in Movie 5 after being near one-shotted by Cooler in the back with his Death Ray. When on Namek Goku got a 33x zenkai in the healing chamber that brought his power from 90,000 to 3,000,000 so he could stand up to Freeza. At the beginning of Movie 5 Goku's power level should be somewhere in the 3,000,000+ range. Then when he takes the senzu after almost dying he gets a zenkai that lets him fight Cooler head on Cooler says it's powerful enough to beat Freeza, meaning his zenkai has to be at least 40 to be over Freeza's max power level of 120,000,000.  
 
If you think Goku was near the same power level in base as he was against Freeza then that would mean Cooler would have to believe Freeza could get taken out by someone with a power level of 3,000,000 which is absurd.
 
The Death Ball Cooler threw made Goku work at saving wearth, but it didn't nearly kill him.....  
It caved Goku into the ground and was burrowing into the earth before Goku was able to fire the kamehameha, and Goku looked like he was struggling his butt off to do it. Heck, he braced for it before Cooler through it at him and it still knocked him from mid air all the way into the ground and then some. If he was unable to deflect the supernova back, he along with everyone would have died when the planet exploded. 
 
Cooler at his 4th transformation wasn't even able to scratch SS Goku....... His death ball was about to destroy the Earth... Goku took most of the damage while he was in base, doing kaoken............

SSj Goku was far stronger which is why Cooler couldn't bust him up. Goku flat out states that Cooler is stronger than Freeza anyway so we know that must be the case that Goku got stronger in the course of the Movie (namely from the senzu bean). 
 
 "

"

XD oh god  goku never got a 40x zenkai..it's just some bs you made up on the spot to justify your ridiculous claim of gokus base being stronger than a super saiyan frieza is known for holding back his power..and you have know way of knowing that cooler knew friezas maximum pl. nevermind the fact that by using your own logic...base form goku...was actually beating cooler..giving him a pl of 120,000,000 would make him = to frieza.....so how is it that gok whos as strong as final form frieza is beating someone you're trying to claim is stronger than final form frieza.....got to love that prince logic, goku withheld the supernova....pushed it away from the planet.....AND THEN blasted a k wave at the supernova....XD and theres that prince logic again. Goku pushed the super nova back...the end...going on about  IF IT HIT THE PLANET is irrelevant....goku did not nearly die from coolers blast stop trying facts  Goku states that coolers final form is stronger than frieza..this is not about coolers final form..its about coolers base form...blah blah blah...stop  frieza stomps "

"@Louisiana Bob said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

"

@Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

On Namek Goku was easily more powerful than Freiza as a Super Saiyan, while at base, his max amount of kaoken only equalled half of Freiza's power.... 
 
Goku was already far stronger than Freiza in that fight, and he knew it.... Which is why he stopped the fight and left........ 
 
Before he left, Freiza attacked him from behind, so Goku sliced Freiza in half, but then lended him just enough Ki to escape the plant as it was about to explode, the nGoku hopped in a saiyan pod that took him to the Yadrats..... 

 
 
@Prince CortSether

said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

This doesn't prove solidly that Goku at Base could defeat the Freiza from Namek. It only states that Cooler was impressed with Goku's power. 
 
All we have to gauge is that Goku did well enough to beat Freeza and that Cooler would not about that power, and all things point to Cooler knowing.

 
@Prince CortSether

said:

" @Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

Yeah, the SSJ Goku he was fighting was far stronger than the SSJ Goku Freeza was facing. Even still, Cooler was almost able to kill Goku with the Supernova, saying a lot about his power level right there.  "

SSJ Goku was stronger than previous SSJ goku, but that doesn't mean his base was higher than previous Freiza. Goku didn't even almost die in his fight with Freiza, he came out of it the superior warrior, but it wasn't a near death experience...... So his base was boosted... But not to the level that it would beat freiza........  
 
Goku got a near 40x zenkai when healed from the senzu bean in Movie 5 after being near one-shotted by Cooler in the back with his Death Ray. When on Namek Goku got a 33x zenkai in the healing chamber that brought his power from 90,000 to 3,000,000 so he could stand up to Freeza. At the beginning of Movie 5 Goku's power level should be somewhere in the 3,000,000+ range. Then when he takes the senzu after almost dying he gets a zenkai that lets him fight Cooler head on Cooler says it's powerful enough to beat Freeza, meaning his zenkai has to be at least 40 to be over Freeza's max power level of 120,000,000.  
 
If you think Goku was near the same power level in base as he was against Freeza then that would mean Cooler would have to believe Freeza could get taken out by someone with a power level of 3,000,000 which is absurd.
 
The Death Ball Cooler threw made Goku work at saving wearth, but it didn't nearly kill him.....  
It caved Goku into the ground and was burrowing into the earth before Goku was able to fire the kamehameha, and Goku looked like he was struggling his butt off to do it. Heck, he braced for it before Cooler through it at him and it still knocked him from mid air all the way into the ground and then some. If he was unable to deflect the supernova back, he along with everyone would have died when the planet exploded. 
 
Cooler at his 4th transformation wasn't even able to scratch SS Goku....... His death ball was about to destroy the Earth... Goku took most of the damage while he was in base, doing kaoken............

SSj Goku was far stronger which is why Cooler couldn't bust him up. Goku flat out states that Cooler is stronger than Freeza anyway so we know that must be the case that Goku got stronger in the course of the Movie (namely from the senzu bean). 
 
 "

"

XD oh god  goku never got a 40x zenkai..it's just some bs you made up on the spot to justify your ridiculous claim of gokus base being stronger than a super saiyan frieza is known for holding back his power..and you have know way of knowing that cooler knew friezas maximum pl. nevermind the fact that by using your own logic...base form goku...was actually beating cooler..giving him a pl of 120,000,000 would make him = to frieza.....so how is it that gok whos as strong as final form frieza is beating someone you're trying to claim is stronger than final form frieza.....got to love that prince logic, goku withheld the supernova....pushed it away from the planet.....AND THEN blasted a k wave at the supernova....XD and theres that prince logic again. Goku pushed the super nova back...the end...going on about  IF IT HIT THE PLANET is irrelevant....goku did not nearly die from coolers blast stop trying facts  Goku states that coolers final form is stronger than frieza..this is not about coolers final form..its about coolers base form...blah blah blah...stop  frieza stomps "

That's why I said 3,000,000+ you tard. Not 3,000,000 flat. I already said Goku had "two jumps of power, one of them huge". But, there's no way to say for sure how much stronger he was at the beginning of Movie 5, all we know is that he's stronger since returning from Namek. At the very minimum Goku would by slightly higher than 3,000,000, but he could very well be much stronger than that. Hell, from returning from Namek his power level would only need to have jumped from 3,000,000 to 3,750,000 for the 40x zenkai to equal 150,000,000. That would fit with Cooler telling Goku to "show the super saiyan power that defeated Freeza!" and the unofficial power for Cooler that  I found which had his pl at 140,000,000. Either way, Cooler was stronger than Freeza and so was base Goku. Even with base Goku's new power it wasn't dealing any significant damage to Cooler as he was unscathed after their short bout.    Supernova caved Goku into the ground and would have blown up the earth had he not pushed it back with a kamehameha. That simple.  "

" @Louisiana Bob said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

"

@Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

On Namek Goku was easily more powerful than Freiza as a Super Saiyan, while at base, his max amount of kaoken only equalled half of Freiza's power.... 
 
Goku was already far stronger than Freiza in that fight, and he knew it.... Which is why he stopped the fight and left........ 
 
Before he left, Freiza attacked him from behind, so Goku sliced Freiza in half, but then lended him just enough Ki to escape the plant as it was about to explode, the nGoku hopped in a saiyan pod that took him to the Yadrats..... 

 
 
@Prince CortSether

said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

This doesn't prove solidly that Goku at Base could defeat the Freiza from Namek. It only states that Cooler was impressed with Goku's power. 
 
All we have to gauge is that Goku did well enough to beat Freeza and that Cooler would not about that power, and all things point to Cooler knowing.

 
@Prince CortSether

said:

" @Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

Yeah, the SSJ Goku he was fighting was far stronger than the SSJ Goku Freeza was facing. Even still, Cooler was almost able to kill Goku with the Supernova, saying a lot about his power level right there.  "

SSJ Goku was stronger than previous SSJ goku, but that doesn't mean his base was higher than previous Freiza. Goku didn't even almost die in his fight with Freiza, he came out of it the superior warrior, but it wasn't a near death experience...... So his base was boosted... But not to the level that it would beat freiza........  
 
Goku got a near 40x zenkai when healed from the senzu bean in Movie 5 after being near one-shotted by Cooler in the back with his Death Ray. When on Namek Goku got a 33x zenkai in the healing chamber that brought his power from 90,000 to 3,000,000 so he could stand up to Freeza. At the beginning of Movie 5 Goku's power level should be somewhere in the 3,000,000+ range. Then when he takes the senzu after almost dying he gets a zenkai that lets him fight Cooler head on Cooler says it's powerful enough to beat Freeza, meaning his zenkai has to be at least 40 to be over Freeza's max power level of 120,000,000.  
 
If you think Goku was near the same power level in base as he was against Freeza then that would mean Cooler would have to believe Freeza could get taken out by someone with a power level of 3,000,000 which is absurd.
 
The Death Ball Cooler threw made Goku work at saving wearth, but it didn't nearly kill him.....  
It caved Goku into the ground and was burrowing into the earth before Goku was able to fire the kamehameha, and Goku looked like he was struggling his butt off to do it. Heck, he braced for it before Cooler through it at him and it still knocked him from mid air all the way into the ground and then some. If he was unable to deflect the supernova back, he along with everyone would have died when the planet exploded. 
 
Cooler at his 4th transformation wasn't even able to scratch SS Goku....... His death ball was about to destroy the Earth... Goku took most of the damage while he was in base, doing kaoken............

SSj Goku was far stronger which is why Cooler couldn't bust him up. Goku flat out states that Cooler is stronger than Freeza anyway so we know that must be the case that Goku got stronger in the course of the Movie (namely from the senzu bean). 
 
 "

"

XD oh god  goku never got a 40x zenkai..it's just some bs you made up on the spot to justify your ridiculous claim of gokus base being stronger than a super saiyan frieza is known for holding back his power..and you have know way of knowing that cooler knew friezas maximum pl. nevermind the fact that by using your own logic...base form goku...was actually beating cooler..giving him a pl of 120,000,000 would make him = to frieza.....so how is it that gok whos as strong as final form frieza is beating someone you're trying to claim is stronger than final form frieza.....got to love that prince logic, goku withheld the supernova....pushed it away from the planet.....AND THEN blasted a k wave at the supernova....XD and theres that prince logic again. Goku pushed the super nova back...the end...going on about  IF IT HIT THE PLANET is irrelevant....goku did not nearly die from coolers blast stop trying facts  Goku states that coolers final form is stronger than frieza..this is not about coolers final form..its about coolers base form...blah blah blah...stop  frieza stomps "

That's why I said 3,000,000+ you tard. Not 3,000,000 flat. I already said Goku had "two jumps of power, one of them huge". But, there's no way to say for sure how much stronger he was at the beginning of Movie 5, all we know is that he's stronger since returning from Namek. At the very minimum Goku would by slightly higher than 3,000,000, but he could very well be much stronger than that. Hell, from returning from Namek his power level would only need to have jumped from 3,000,000 to 3,750,000 for the 40x zenkai to equal 150,000,000. That would fit with Cooler telling Goku to "show the super saiyan power that defeated Freeza!" and the unofficial power for Cooler that  I found which had his pl at 140,000,000. Either way, Cooler was stronger than Freeza and so was base Goku. Even with base Goku's new power it wasn't dealing any significant damage to Cooler as he was unscathed after their short bout.    Supernova caved Goku into the ground and would have blown up the earth had he not pushed it back with a kamehameha. That simple.  "

" @Prince CortSether said:

"@Louisiana Bob said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

"

@Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

On Namek Goku was easily more powerful than Freiza as a Super Saiyan, while at base, his max amount of kaoken only equalled half of Freiza's power.... 
 
Goku was already far stronger than Freiza in that fight, and he knew it.... Which is why he stopped the fight and left........ 
 
Before he left, Freiza attacked him from behind, so Goku sliced Freiza in half, but then lended him just enough Ki to escape the plant as it was about to explode, the nGoku hopped in a saiyan pod that took him to the Yadrats..... 

 
 
@Prince CortSether

said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

This doesn't prove solidly that Goku at Base could defeat the Freiza from Namek. It only states that Cooler was impressed with Goku's power. 
 
All we have to gauge is that Goku did well enough to beat Freeza and that Cooler would not about that power, and all things point to Cooler knowing.

 
@Prince CortSether

said:

" @Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

Yeah, the SSJ Goku he was fighting was far stronger than the SSJ Goku Freeza was facing. Even still, Cooler was almost able to kill Goku with the Supernova, saying a lot about his power level right there.  "

SSJ Goku was stronger than previous SSJ goku, but that doesn't mean his base was higher than previous Freiza. Goku didn't even almost die in his fight with Freiza, he came out of it the superior warrior, but it wasn't a near death experience...... So his base was boosted... But not to the level that it would beat freiza........  
 
Goku got a near 40x zenkai when healed from the senzu bean in Movie 5 after being near one-shotted by Cooler in the back with his Death Ray. When on Namek Goku got a 33x zenkai in the healing chamber that brought his power from 90,000 to 3,000,000 so he could stand up to Freeza. At the beginning of Movie 5 Goku's power level should be somewhere in the 3,000,000+ range. Then when he takes the senzu after almost dying he gets a zenkai that lets him fight Cooler head on Cooler says it's powerful enough to beat Freeza, meaning his zenkai has to be at least 40 to be over Freeza's max power level of 120,000,000.  
 
If you think Goku was near the same power level in base as he was against Freeza then that would mean Cooler would have to believe Freeza could get taken out by someone with a power level of 3,000,000 which is absurd.
 
The Death Ball Cooler threw made Goku work at saving wearth, but it didn't nearly kill him.....  
It caved Goku into the ground and was burrowing into the earth before Goku was able to fire the kamehameha, and Goku looked like he was struggling his butt off to do it. Heck, he braced for it before Cooler through it at him and it still knocked him from mid air all the way into the ground and then some. If he was unable to deflect the supernova back, he along with everyone would have died when the planet exploded. 
 
Cooler at his 4th transformation wasn't even able to scratch SS Goku....... His death ball was about to destroy the Earth... Goku took most of the damage while he was in base, doing kaoken............

SSj Goku was far stronger which is why Cooler couldn't bust him up. Goku flat out states that Cooler is stronger than Freeza anyway so we know that must be the case that Goku got stronger in the course of the Movie (namely from the senzu bean). 
 
 "

"

XD oh god  goku never got a 40x zenkai..it's just some bs you made up on the spot to justify your ridiculous claim of gokus base being stronger than a super saiyan frieza is known for holding back his power..and you have know way of knowing that cooler knew friezas maximum pl. nevermind the fact that by using your own logic...base form goku...was actually beating cooler..giving him a pl of 120,000,000 would make him = to frieza.....so how is it that gok whos as strong as final form frieza is beating someone you're trying to claim is stronger than final form frieza.....got to love that prince logic, goku withheld the supernova....pushed it away from the planet.....AND THEN blasted a k wave at the supernova....XD and theres that prince logic again. Goku pushed the super nova back...the end...going on about  IF IT HIT THE PLANET is irrelevant....goku did not nearly die from coolers blast stop trying facts  Goku states that coolers final form is stronger than frieza..this is not about coolers final form..its about coolers base form...blah blah blah...stop  frieza stomps "

That's why I said 3,000,000+ you tard. Not 3,000,000 flat. I already said Goku had "two jumps of power, one of them huge". But, there's no way to say for sure how much stronger he was at the beginning of Movie 5, all we know is that he's stronger since returning from Namek. At the very minimum Goku would by slightly higher than 3,000,000, but he could very well be much stronger than that. Hell, from returning from Namek his power level would only need to have jumped from 3,000,000 to 3,750,000 for the 40x zenkai to equal 150,000,000. That would fit with Cooler telling Goku to "show the super saiyan power that defeated Freeza!" and the unofficial power for Cooler that  I found which had his pl at 140,000,000. Either way, Cooler was stronger than Freeza and so was base Goku. Even with base Goku's new power it wasn't dealing any significant damage to Cooler as he was unscathed after their short bout.    Supernova caved Goku into the ground and would have blown up the earth had he not pushed it back with a kamehameha. That simple.  "

Back when there were still power levels, Goku was only at 300,000. He was able to kaoken times 20 and get to 6,000,000, to which Freiza said he was only fighting Goku at half of his power (Freiza 100% is 12 mill). Later stuff happens, and Goku goes SS which multiplies his base times 50, to 15,000,000. Freiza goes higher, than higher then Max, and still cant beat Goku, so Goku leaves..... Because he knows he's stronger......  I didn't say base Goku there was the same as base Goku against Cooler. I said Goku improved since then,but not enough to beat freiza at base. He didn't go to 15 mill at base, because the next time Goku is seen after his trip from the yadrats, his power is 17,000,000 an Trunks is at Goku's previous SS level. Goku didn't make some quantum leap after his battle, but he did improve significantly. The Cooler fight happened after this, and there was no other significant upgrade to Goku's power. He was above his former self, but his base still wouldn't be at Freiza's level. Goku at this time could stand to amp himself more and possibly do a kaoken times 30 if it wasn't too much strain, but that would put him higher thanhis previous fight with Freiza, yet not at Freiza's level. Thus if this alone was challengingCooler, and made him ransfform, while still being below Freiza, then Freiza would beat Cooler. (but you say that goku himself said that Cooler was stronger than Freiza, did he say this before or after Cooler's transformation? do you have video? scans?) Power levels didn't go into the hundred millions until the cell saga and the hyperbolic chamber, but who knows where those came from because supposedly they stopped doing power levels after the freiza saga, because the author felt it "limited" the story/characters. "

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

"@Louisiana Bob said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

"

@Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

On Namek Goku was easily more powerful than Freiza as a Super Saiyan, while at base, his max amount of kaoken only equalled half of Freiza's power.... 
 
Goku was already far stronger than Freiza in that fight, and he knew it.... Which is why he stopped the fight and left........ 
 
Before he left, Freiza attacked him from behind, so Goku sliced Freiza in half, but then lended him just enough Ki to escape the plant as it was about to explode, the nGoku hopped in a saiyan pod that took him to the Yadrats..... 

 
 
@Prince CortSether

said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

This doesn't prove solidly that Goku at Base could defeat the Freiza from Namek. It only states that Cooler was impressed with Goku's power. 
 
All we have to gauge is that Goku did well enough to beat Freeza and that Cooler would not about that power, and all things point to Cooler knowing.

 
@Prince CortSether

said:

" @Darth_Amaron said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37 said:

" How is Goku after the Freiza fight on Namek stronger at Base than his previous Super Saiyan level?.... Where was this stated?..... "

He's not stronger than his Super Saiyan level in base, I made an error. However, he's stronger than Freeza's max power in base. Stated by Cooler.   Meaning the kaioken Kamehameha that Goku shot at FF Cooler (the one Cooler flew through and popped Goku in the mouth) was far stronger than his Super Saiyan self on Namek, and his SSJ self in Movie 5 was a lot stronger than that.  "

When did Cooler state this?  I don't remember base Goku being stronger than Freiza. Base Goku was faaar stronger than previous Base Goku, but still under his previous SS transformation and Freiza 100% to my understanding....... "

The only hints we have at gauging Goku's strength are Cooler's belief that Goku (in his base form) was powerful enough to have killed Freeza after experiencing his power firsthand and 2) He was confident in taking on this "Super Saiyan" that killed his brother. After the tangle up with Cooler, he says "You do well. Well enough to have defeated my brother." Then he says to SSJ Goku  "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" "

did cooler really say that freeza was NO MATCH to a SSJ goku? i thought they were pretty even when they were fighting on namek. meh, maybe cooler meant that the current SSJ goku hes fighting would stomp his bro. "

Yeah, the SSJ Goku he was fighting was far stronger than the SSJ Goku Freeza was facing. Even still, Cooler was almost able to kill Goku with the Supernova, saying a lot about his power level right there.  "

SSJ Goku was stronger than previous SSJ goku, but that doesn't mean his base was higher than previous Freiza. Goku didn't even almost die in his fight with Freiza, he came out of it the superior warrior, but it wasn't a near death experience...... So his base was boosted... But not to the level that it would beat freiza........  
 
Goku got a near 40x zenkai when healed from the senzu bean in Movie 5 after being near one-shotted by Cooler in the back with his Death Ray. When on Namek Goku got a 33x zenkai in the healing chamber that brought his power from 90,000 to 3,000,000 so he could stand up to Freeza. At the beginning of Movie 5 Goku's power level should be somewhere in the 3,000,000+ range. Then when he takes the senzu after almost dying he gets a zenkai that lets him fight Cooler head on Cooler says it's powerful enough to beat Freeza, meaning his zenkai has to be at least 40 to be over Freeza's max power level of 120,000,000.  
 
If you think Goku was near the same power level in base as he was against Freeza then that would mean Cooler would have to believe Freeza could get taken out by someone with a power level of 3,000,000 which is absurd.
 
The Death Ball Cooler threw made Goku work at saving wearth, but it didn't nearly kill him.....  
It caved Goku into the ground and was burrowing into the earth before Goku was able to fire the kamehameha, and Goku looked like he was struggling his butt off to do it. Heck, he braced for it before Cooler through it at him and it still knocked him from mid air all the way into the ground and then some. If he was unable to deflect the supernova back, he along with everyone would have died when the planet exploded. 
 
Cooler at his 4th transformation wasn't even able to scratch SS Goku....... His death ball was about to destroy the Earth... Goku took most of the damage while he was in base, doing kaoken............

SSj Goku was far stronger which is why Cooler couldn't bust him up. Goku flat out states that Cooler is stronger than Freeza anyway so we know that must be the case that Goku got stronger in the course of the Movie (namely from the senzu bean). 
 
 "

"

XD oh god  goku never got a 40x zenkai..it's just some bs you made up on the spot to justify your ridiculous claim of gokus base being stronger than a super saiyan frieza is known for holding back his power..and you have know way of knowing that cooler knew friezas maximum pl. nevermind the fact that by using your own logic...base form goku...was actually beating cooler..giving him a pl of 120,000,000 would make him = to frieza.....so how is it that gok whos as strong as final form frieza is beating someone you're trying to claim is stronger than final form frieza.....got to love that prince logic, goku withheld the supernova....pushed it away from the planet.....AND THEN blasted a k wave at the supernova....XD and theres that prince logic again. Goku pushed the super nova back...the end...going on about  IF IT HIT THE PLANET is irrelevant....goku did not nearly die from coolers blast stop trying facts  Goku states that coolers final form is stronger than frieza..this is not about coolers final form..its about coolers base form...blah blah blah...stop  frieza stomps "

That's why I said 3,000,000+ you tard. Not 3,000,000 flat. I already said Goku had "two jumps of power, one of them huge". But, there's no way to say for sure how much stronger he was at the beginning of Movie 5, all we know is that he's stronger since returning from Namek. At the very minimum Goku would by slightly higher than 3,000,000, but he could very well be much stronger than that. Hell, from returning from Namek his power level would only need to have jumped from 3,000,000 to 3,750,000 for the 40x zenkai to equal 150,000,000. That would fit with Cooler telling Goku to "show the super saiyan power that defeated Freeza!" and the unofficial power for Cooler that  I found which had his pl at 140,000,000. Either way, Cooler was stronger than Freeza and so was base Goku. Even with base Goku's new power it wasn't dealing any significant damage to Cooler as he was unscathed after their short bout.    Supernova caved Goku into the ground and would have blown up the earth had he not pushed it back with a kamehameha. That simple.  "

Back when there were still power levels, Goku was only at 300,000. He was able to kaoken times 20 and get to 6,000,000, to which Freiza said he was only fighting Goku at half of his power (Freiza 100% is 12 mill). Later stuff happens, and Goku goes SS which multiplies his base times 50, to 15,000,000. Freiza goes higher, than higher then Max, and still cant beat Goku, so Goku leaves..... Because he knows he's stronger......  I didn't say base Goku there was the same as base Goku against Cooler. I said Goku improved since then,but not enough to beat freiza at base. He didn't go to 15 mill at base, because the next time Goku is seen after his trip from the yadrats, his power is 17,000,000 an Trunks is at Goku's previous SS level. Goku didn't make some quantum leap after his battle, but he did improve significantly. The Cooler fight happened after this, and there was no other significant upgrade to Goku's power. He was above his former self, but his base still wouldn't be at Freiza's level. Goku at this time could stand to amp himself more and possibly do a kaoken times 30 if it wasn't too much strain, but that would put him higher thanhis previous fight with Freiza, yet not at Freiza's level. Thus if this alone was challengingCooler, and made him ransfform, while still being below Freiza, then Freiza would beat Cooler. (but you say that goku himself said that Cooler was stronger than Freiza, did he say this before or after Cooler's transformation? do you have video? scans?) Power levels didn't go into the hundred millions until the cell saga and the hyperbolic chamber, but who knows where those came from because supposedly they stopped doing power levels after the freiza saga, because the author felt it "limited" the story/characters. "

The Daiz has official power levels for Freeza at 120,000,000 100% and Goku at 150,000,000. You're way off the mark. 
 
This is a good place to go for reference in power levels.  
 
Power Levels "

 xD. No there is no way to say how much power goku has gained.. and yet you keep using the exact number that helps you say gokus base is stronger than his super saiyan form..gokus base is stronger than cooler...you keep saying oh no its not known but its definitely enough to make him stronger than frieza...XD XD XD good grief...not that it matters because goku did not get a 40x zenkai....its something that you made up to justify claiming goku base is stronger than a super saiyan....stop saying 40x zenkia...goku has never gotten a 40x zenkai.. you made it up.there is no 40x zenkai...k thanks......you do not get to decide what zenkai goku got just because it helps you =/      

 No but I do get to say what sort of zenkai Goku got because it coincides with Cooler's statement that Goku was strong enough to defeat Freeza, which is much more than you going "OMG no Goku CANT be stonger than Freeza even though Cooler said so, it must be a lie it must!"  

 XD cooler has never even seen what a super saiyan looks like...gokus base form is not a super saiyan....why are you taking these ridiculously obscure dialogues and turning them into the most ridiculous theories and statements i have ever heard regerading goku...its just laughable. Xd   

Yea, because what Goku looks like determines his power level? God you're dumb. Cooler has never seen what a Super Saiyan looks like but in his opinion it would be impossible for a Saiyan to defeat Freeza (as in he knows what power Freeza is capable of) and Goku's display of power against him proved to him that Goku was stronger than Freeza. Therefore what else was Cooler to think when fighting him? No Saiyan ever had been powerful enough to rival them so he must have been a "super saiyan" at that point to do so well   

 i love how you are now trying to go back to saying goku base form is stronger than super saiyan form after admitting you were wrong...  

 I never retconned my statement. At the very max Goku's base when fighting Cooler would be equal to his SSJ self on Namek, not stronger.   

 thank you prince...just thank you...i swear to god it's so blatantly obvious that you're just making this stuff up as you go along it's not even funny.   

 No, but nice try.  

 Cooler saying show him the power of the super saiyan = cooler thought gokus base form was a super saiyng because he doesn't know what a super saiyan looks like...the end...stop making stuff out to be more than it is. goku having a pl of 3,750,000 and giving that a zenkai of 33X (the canon max amount goku has ever shown to be giving)   

 Zenkais have been shown to be all over the place. You trying to say there's a canon amount to what a zenkai is is ridiculous, especially since Movie 5 isn't cannon to begin with. LOL  

 He would barely be above frieza.....not enough to even say that there is a difference considering frieza gave a gokus with the pl of 150,000,000 trouble....and yet goku was beating down cooler with that pl....which by the way means that even if gokus bl was 150,000,000 cooler got his face beat in where as frieza actually stood a fighting chance against that pl =/   

 Cooler was never in danger of dying at that point nor did he show that he was outputting his maximum amount of power. He was unscathed after the battle with Goku whereas Freeza continuously got weaker and was doing worse as the battle progressed once he reached his full power.  

 Again none of that crap matters because that is not goks pl in movie 5.    

 Because you say so? Yeah, trying coming up with some form of evidence to back up your claims. I have statements made by Cooler which are the only things possible to gauge in this movie. What do you have? Your butthurt. Yeah, I win in that department.  

 Oh lord...stop...there is no official or unofficial pl for cooler.   

 Do you even know what unofficial means?  OFFICIAL means: Authorized by a proper authority; authoritative . An UNOFFICIAL source is one that isn't confirmed by the proper authority. Therefore anyone can write down a power level that wasn't stated and it would be "unofficial". 

 So dont even bother.  coolers base/3rd form is not stronger than frieza    

 It is stronger than Freeza.   

 gokus base form in movie 5 is not stronger than frieza  just....stop  XD and yet goku was not caved into the ground....he pushed it away from the planet...so wtf are you babbling about...  

 Can you see or do you have a problem with your eyes as well as your brain? Goku was pushed into the earth and the supernova was burrowing into it.   

 Like your thought process is all over the place..just makes no sens at all. Cooler did not push gokus int the ground....goku repelled the attack and then blasted it away.....now...it's THAT simple. No one wants to hear your what if's..like just ugh   

 Keep whining.  

   "

" @velle37:    No, the source is correct.

As noted in the manga section, Raditz is not actually said to be equal to the Saibaimen, only close to them, and Toriyama has written that Raditz had a higher battle power than them.

"

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37:    No, the source is correct.

As noted in the manga section, Raditz is not actually said to be equal to the Saibaimen, only close to them, and Toriyama has written that Raditz had a higher battle power than them.

"

So some guy says Akira said this and you just beleive it? There entire site was just his opinions, and him occasionally glancing at a comic, giving an air of authenticity.  I ead the manga personally. Freiza didn't jump from 1/2 mill to 1 mill, to 2.5 mill, to 150 million billion zillion...... He only went to 12 mill............   If Raditz was more poweful than the saibamen then why did he write the character saying that they each had the same power as Raditz?..... Do you have any proof that Akira said this other than some guys statement?......  Otherwise you can go to a library and check out the books from the saiyan/freiza saga, and read for yourself.... Because the majority of the power levels are stated right in the book............. And even if that was the number of freiza's power. Goku's base didn't jump that high, and this still hasn't proven Freiza to be weaker than Cooler......  LB brought up a good point, that you're saying Base Goku was stronger than/equal to Freiza........... But Goku at base was beating Cooler, which promted him to transform..... Thus you just said Cooler was weaker than Freiza... "

Frieza was stronger, Cooler said so himself.

" Frieza was stronger, Cooler said so himself. "

" @Mortein said:

" Frieza was stronger, Cooler said so himself. "

You guys are like broken records, I swear.   Cooler never says this in the TOEI dub. Because that's the primary source, the Funi translation is irrelevant.  "

" @velle37 said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @velle37:    No, the source is correct.

As noted in the manga section, Raditz is not actually said to be equal to the Saibaimen, only close to them, and Toriyama has written that Raditz had a higher battle power than them.

"

So some guy says Akira said this and you just beleive it? There entire site was just his opinions, and him occasionally glancing at a comic, giving an air of authenticity.  I ead the manga personally. Freiza didn't jump from 1/2 mill to 1 mill, to 2.5 mill, to 150 million billion zillion...... He only went to 12 mill............   If Raditz was more poweful than the saibamen then why did he write the character saying that they each had the same power as Raditz?..... Do you have any proof that Akira said this other than some guys statement?......  Otherwise you can go to a library and check out the books from the saiyan/freiza saga, and read for yourself.... Because the majority of the power levels are stated right in the book............. And even if that was the number of freiza's power. Goku's base didn't jump that high, and this still hasn't proven Freiza to be weaker than Cooler......  LB brought up a good point, that you're saying Base Goku was stronger than/equal to Freiza........... But Goku at base was beating Cooler, which promted him to transform..... Thus you just said Cooler was weaker than Freiza... "

No, I'm saying Goku was stronger than Freeza when he fought Cooler and it could be stronger by anywhere up to 30,000,000. I never said Cooler was weaker than Freeza, quite the opposite. I believe Goku in that scenario was near 150,000,000 Cooler at 140,000,000 (which was already speculated by some others previously and while it isn't outright stated it fits with everything in the story up to that point). Which are both higher than Freeza's 120,000,000 max. You've been saying from the start that Freeza was stronger than Cooler...based on what? Also Goku as a SSJ was beating Freeza and as time went on Freeza did worse and worse. Cooler remained unscathed after all of Goku's punches and casually told him that he was impressed at his power which was strong enough to beat Freeza. Cooler's statements are more reliable than anyone else's statements regarding that movie.    And the website isn't just "some guy's" statement. Goku's 150 million power level was officially supported in the Daiz.   "

Freiza stomps 
 
the end 

Wow! This thread is up to page 12 now...

" Wow! This thread is up to page 12 now... "

" Freiza stomps  the end  "

" @Louisiana Bob said:

" Freiza stomps  the end  "

Freeza loses.   What, Louisiana Bob knows the fulll power of Freeza, yet Cooler does not? lol  Cooler > Louisiana Bob "

" @Louisiana Bob: For the last time, you're not nearly everyone.  Boy that's some ego you have. "

Yeesh, you guys have been busy. Well, I'm not about to read everything posted since my last comment, but I'm not sure that it's really necessary, since Prince's argument still seems to rest on the same basic assumptions. So; 
 
1) Why would we assume the Freeza family all know about each other? Why would we assume cordial family relations among people like them? Even if they did, why would that even matter? I get along fine with my family, yet I doubt any of them has the least idea how much I can bench press or how fast I can run a mile. There's really not much to indicate they actually knew how powerful Freeza was, especially considering how willingly they engaged with guys who kicked his ass, only to get their own butts kicked in turn. Even if Cold did know Freeza's power, there's no reason to believe he has a good enough relationship with Cooler to share the information with him (after all, he apparently wasn't invited to their little side-trip to earth, nor did Freeza or Cold ever mention him). Ignorance and stupidity on their part makes perfect sense, and it fits Cooler into the overall hierarchy of DBZ much better, otherwise you end up with movie 5 Goku being stronger than Perfect Cell. Why do that if there's no reason to? 

2) So what if Roshi said he was stronger? Last time Roshi saw him was before he left for Namek. A lot happened in between. 
 
3) Goku could have been using the 10x Kaio-ken when fighting Cooler's base form. There was no visual effect from it for most of the Freeza fight, so we know it isn't necessarily visible. 
 
4) No saiyan has received a zenkai after achieving super saiyan. 
 
Still, my main point is just how unnecessary it is. Prince is proposing an absolutely enormous power level for 5th form Cooler and SS Goku here, ones that put them completely out of the normal flow of powerlevels with the rest of the movies and series. I just see no reason to do so when all you have to do is claim ignorance on Cooler's part to get something perfectly reasonable.

There is nothing clear to support that they weren't anything but on par in power. Cooler said his brother was arrogant, but never stated he was stronger than him in his base form.

"but I'm not sure that it's really necessary, since Prince's argument still seems to rest on the same basic assumptions. So  

 Still, my main point is just how unnecessary it is. Prince is proposing an absolutely enormous power level for 5th form Cooler and SS Goku here, ones that put them completely out of the normal flow of powerlevels with the rest of the movies and series. I just see no reason to do so when all you have to do is claim ignorance on Cooler's part to get something perfectly reasonable. "

"  1) Why would we assume the Freeza family all know about each other?   

 Common sense. If Cooler says he's stronger than Freeza or that Goku in base was able to defeat Freeza, then that means he knows how strong Freeza is, and if some fan thinks Cooler doesn't, they would need to provide some proof to back it up. Not, 'maybe, prolly, I donno'.   

 4) No saiyan has received a zenkai after achieving super saiyan.   

Which was proved to be the case after Super Saiyan Vegeta healed :/ 

 Still, my main point is just how unnecessary it is. Prince is proposing an absolutely enormous power level for 5th form Cooler and SS Goku here, ones that put them completely out of the normal flow of powerlevels with the rest of the movies and series. I just see no reason to do so when all you have to do is claim ignorance on Cooler's part to get something perfectly reasonable.  

It's not reasonable to claim a character was ignorant when there's nothing to back it up. As I said, you'd need proof Cooler didn't know, aside from opinion.  

   "

" There is nothing clear to support that they weren't anything but on par in power. Cooler said his brother was arrogant, but never stated he was stronger than him in his base form. "

" @Freefa11 said:

"  1) Why would we assume the Freeza family all know about each other?   

 Common sense. If Cooler says he's stronger than Freeza or that Goku in base was able to defeat Freeza, then that means he knows how strong Freeza is, and if some fan thinks Cooler doesn't, they would need to provide some proof to back it up. Not, 'maybe, prolly, I donno'.   

 4) No saiyan has received a zenkai after achieving super saiyan.   

Which was proved to be the case after Super Saiyan Vegeta healed :/ 

 Still, my main point is just how unnecessary it is. Prince is proposing an absolutely enormous power level for 5th form Cooler and SS Goku here, ones that put them completely out of the normal flow of powerlevels with the rest of the movies and series. I just see no reason to do so when all you have to do is claim ignorance on Cooler's part to get something perfectly reasonable.  

It's not reasonable to claim a character was ignorant when there's nothing to back it up. As I said, you'd need proof Cooler didn't know, aside from opinion.  

   "

"

" @Louisiana Bob: Seems you don't know what a FACT is or what constitues actual proof.  "

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @Louisiana Bob: Seems you don't know what a FACT is or what constitues actual proof.  "

FACT - gokus power level after namek and his training since then is unkown   

 Though Master Roshi says "He's gotten even stronger since he's returned from Namek".   Meaning Goku's power level is > 3,000,000 at this point.

 FACT- you stating gokus power level and making it so it is the exact number it would have to be so your ridiculous claims are backed up.......even though gokus pl is unknown and the feats dont match the power level    

 Feats and power level don't go hand in hand.  

 FACT - not one single thing you have stated has been found even remotely feasible, and is all based on speculation, personal bias and opinion....NOTHING you say is based on fact  FACT - the fact that you actually believe anything you say is "proof" and not obvious bias opinion based on nothing other than crap you made up is just...laughable to anyone who has read your post.  

 They're based on Cooler's statement of Goku being stronger than Freeza which is the only thing someone an take as true in this movie, unlike your "No Goku's not stronger than Freeza and neither is Cooler because I say so".   

  FACT - at this point almost no one cares about what you have to say as you've changed you're information more times than peter jackson with the ending to lord of the rings  

 Cute, you tried to make a funny.   

 kthanks bye  

 We all know you're going to find me in another thread and then troll me again later.   

   "

" @Louisiana Bob said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @Louisiana Bob: Seems you don't know what a FACT is or what constitues actual proof.  "

FACT - gokus power level after namek and his training since then is unkown   

 Though Master Roshi says "He's gotten even stronger since he's returned from Namek".   Meaning Goku's power level is > 3,000,000 at this point.

 FACT- you stating gokus power level and making it so it is the exact number it would have to be so your ridiculous claims are backed up.......even though gokus pl is unknown and the feats dont match the power level    

 Feats and power level don't go hand in hand.  

 FACT - not one single thing you have stated has been found even remotely feasible, and is all based on speculation, personal bias and opinion....NOTHING you say is based on fact  FACT - the fact that you actually believe anything you say is "proof" and not obvious bias opinion based on nothing other than crap you made up is just...laughable to anyone who has read your post.  

 They're based on Cooler's statement of Goku being stronger than Freeza which is the only thing someone an take as true in this movie, unlike your "No Goku's not stronger than Freeza and neither is Cooler because I say so".   

  FACT - at this point almost no one cares about what you have to say as you've changed you're information more times than peter jackson with the ending to lord of the rings  

 Cute, you tried to make a funny.   

 kthanks bye  

 We all know you're going to find me in another thread and then troll me again later.   

   "

"

 @Prince CortSether said:

" @Louisiana Bob:  You literally said nothing that entire post.    If A is brother's with B and A said C is stronger than B then A > C and that's that. Nothing is there to contradict that so it stands.  Cooler is his brother, you are not. You know nothing about Freeza in comparison. "

" @Louisiana Bob: source material > your opinion "

" @Louisiana Bob: Why edit your post to add all that? You still said nothing.   Cooler said Goku was strong enough to defeat Freeza and nothing contradicts it. Ergo, Cooler's statement = FACT.    "