#1 Posted by heraldthemoth (99 posts) - - Show Bio

Who wins between the final form of Freeza and Cooler's regular form? 
 
Battle is on a deserted planet with a terrain like Earth. Cooler cannot transform into his Final Form. 
 

Frieza

 Cooler
#2 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

cooler

#3 Posted by kagetaicho (1991 posts) - - Show Bio
@nightwing91 said:
" cooler "
#4 Edited by Alexman113 (487 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually, I wanna say Frieza takes this. Cooler said that Frieza was always stronger than him and base Goku beat him to the point that he felt he would need to transform. Frieza didnt even need 100% to beat base Goku. on top of that, 100% Final form Frieza put up a much better fight against SSJ Goku than Final form Cooler.
#5 Edited by LT1085 (3658 posts) - - Show Bio
THIS would be a more appropriate place for this particular battle.
#6 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Cooler takes it, much less if he went and transformed into his Super-Shredder form.
#7 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio
@alexman113: You forget the issue that after a sayian gets stronger every near death, goku fought frieza near death. His power level would be increased exponentially after that fight, so that argument doesn't hold up to well.SSJ Goku was preoccupied during that fight as well, with the planet blowing up. Frieza was weaker.
 
And Cooler didn't say frieza was stronger, he said Frieza was always trying to become stronger, and it WOULD have happened, then it happened I transformed. I believe were his exact words, IIRC I haven't seen that movie since i was like 7 though.
#8 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9567 posts) - - Show Bio

Coller, takes Kakarot, after he know, how to do the superthing.
In that point Kakarott was by far stronger, for tha same cooler wins this one.

#9 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio

Both Base Cooler and Base Goku in Movie 5 were stronger than 100% Freeza at that point. Cooler takes this with ease.

#10 Edited by TheSpiritStalker (2013 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooler said before he transformed Frieza had the edge meaning he was little bit stronger so he could pull of a win here.

#11 Posted by Susanoo (5909 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooler wins
#12 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheSpiritStalker said:
" Cooler said before he transformed Frieza had the edge meaning he was little bit stronger so he could pull of a win here. "
Only in the Funi dub. In the Japanese TOEI dub he says no such thing.
#13 Edited by OmegaDynasty (9184 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooler, he told Goku that he can gather energy much faster then his brother.  Not only that but he knows Instant Transmission.

#14 Posted by SSGL1 (214 posts) - - Show Bio

ITS OVER 9000!

#15 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio

What? 9000! There's no way it can be right!

#16 Edited by Louisiana Bob (912 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:

" Both Base Cooler and Base Goku in Movie 5 were stronger than 100% Freeza at that point. Cooler takes this with ease. "

XD and once again with this... honestly...after being proven wrong.....4 times now..you still keep saying this.....why? Just shhh
#17 Posted by Louisiana Bob (912 posts) - - Show Bio

also frieza stomps. not only did cooler state that frieza was stronger than he is...but he did not get one shotted and embarrassed by goku like cooler was. 

#18 Posted by Darth_Amaron (57 posts) - - Show Bio

did cooler really admitted that frieza was stronger? or was it just a mistake in the english dub?

#19 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@Louisiana Bob said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" Both Base Cooler and Base Goku in Movie 5 were stronger than 100% Freeza at that point. Cooler takes this with ease. "

XD and once again with this... honestly...after being proven wrong.....4 times now..you still keep saying this.....why? Just shhh "

Quit trolling. I played that game a long time ago and I discovered it isn't cute. Hopefully you'll learn the same but dude, nobody on here takes you seriously at all. 
 
@Louisiana Bob said:

" also frieza stomps. not only did cooler state that frieza was stronger than he is...but he did not get one shotted and embarrassed by goku like cooler was.  "


Amazing you claim to know so much about DBZ yet you're so off the mark here. 
 
@Darth_Amaron said:

" did cooler really admitted that frieza was stronger? or was it just a mistake in the english dub? "

The only thing even possibly indicating Freeza was stronger in their original forms is when Cooler says in the FUNI English dub "Freeza was always trying to prove he was better than me and he definitely had the edge, but then I transformed". Having the edge can mean a lot of things so that's not a clear indication. In the Japanese TOEI dub, Cooler makes absolutely no mention of Freeza possibly being stronger. 
 
in the official translation of Movie 5, Cooler simply says to SSJ Goku: "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" The statement flows perfectly with everything else up to that point. Cooler finds out his younger brother was killed by a Saiyan, Cooler fearlessly seeks this Saiyan out, Cooler invites this same Saiyan to attack him (specifically, to show him the power capable of killing Freeza), gets taken by surprise by that power, and then confirms that Goku was indeed powerful enough to have defeated Freeza. And to top it all off, he never planned to rely on his most powerful transformation. And as for Goku, he got, near a 33x zenkai on Namek. So with a base-form BP higher than 3,000,000, his zenkai would only need to be less than a 40x increase to line up with Cooler's "good enough" statement. Again, nothing out-of-the-ordinary about that. The only way that they aren't stupidly powerful is if Cooler knew nothing of Freeza's max power. And honestly, why would the older brother be left in the dark about that? Piccolo's strength increased by more than 50x just through sheer training, but it's silly to think that in the Toei-verse of all places, Goku couldn't have gotten a ~40x power increase with a zenkai? Movies 5 and 6 have some crazy power scaling going on, you can't fit it perfectly with the battle powers in the main timeline.
 
Either way, Cooler's (base) battle power is officially higher than Freeza's by 20 million. So whether or not he guessed that he was stronger, or if he just *knew*, he was correct. I think that's all that matters. 
#20 Posted by Louisiana Bob (912 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
" @Louisiana Bob said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" Both Base Cooler and Base Goku in Movie 5 were stronger than 100% Freeza at that point. Cooler takes this with ease. "

XD and once again with this... honestly...after being proven wrong.....4 times now..you still keep saying this.....why? Just shhh "

Quit trolling. I played that game a long time ago and I discovered it isn't cute. Hopefully you'll learn the same but dude, nobody on here takes you seriously at all. 
 
@Louisiana Bob said:

" also frieza stomps. not only did cooler state that frieza was stronger than he is...but he did not get one shotted and embarrassed by goku like cooler was.  "


Amazing you claim to know so much about DBZ yet you're so off the mark here. 
 
@Darth_Amaron said:

" did cooler really admitted that frieza was stronger? or was it just a mistake in the english dub? "

The only thing even possibly indicating Freeza was stronger in their original forms is when Cooler says in the FUNI English dub "Freeza was always trying to prove he was better than me and he definitely had the edge, but then I transformed". Having the edge can mean a lot of things so that's not a clear indication. In the Japanese TOEI dub, Cooler makes absolutely no mention of Freeza possibly being stronger. 
 
in the official translation of Movie 5, Cooler simply says to SSJ Goku: "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" The statement flows perfectly with everything else up to that point. Cooler finds out his younger brother was killed by a Saiyan, Cooler fearlessly seeks this Saiyan out, Cooler invites this same Saiyan to attack him (specifically, to show him the power capable of killing Freeza), gets taken by surprise by that power, and then confirms that Goku was indeed powerful enough to have defeated Freeza. And to top it all off, he never planned to rely on his most powerful transformation. And as for Goku, he got, near a 33x zenkai on Namek. So with a base-form BP higher than 3,000,000, his zenkai would only need to be less than a 40x increase to line up with Cooler's "good enough" statement. Again, nothing out-of-the-ordinary about that. The only way that they aren't stupidly powerful is if Cooler knew nothing of Freeza's max power. And honestly, why would the older brother be left in the dark about that? Piccolo's strength increased by more than 50x just through sheer training, but it's silly to think that in the Toei-verse of all places, Goku couldn't have gotten a ~40x power increase with a zenkai? Movies 5 and 6 have some crazy power scaling going on, you can't fit it perfectly with the battle powers in the main timeline.  Either way, Cooler's (base) battle power is officially higher than Freeza's by 20 million. So whether or not he guessed that he was stronger, or if he just *knew*, he was correct. I think that's all that matters.  "
XD sir you keep babbling on about me trolling you because you totally got this ridiculous statement you keep copy pasting shot down...but it just makes me laugh.  So once more..you not knowing what you're talking about and having that proven does not make everyone else a troll...mkay
 
since you keep copy pasting the same ignorant crap that was shot down so many times before i'll copy paste the post that did so. 
 
 " Again   cooler fighting goku in super saiyan form   and going i see why my brother was killed equals   base form goku is stronger than frieza .............do you even know what logic is?  
 
and by the way goku at ssj on namek was 150,000,000..his base was 3,000,000...if going by your half assed logic that i will tear down later...that would mean gokus base form after zenkai was 99,000,000....still lower than his super saiyan form...so not only do you use logic that cant even be considered logic..but you're still wrong. And for the record goku received a high ass zenkai after being near death....he wasnt anywhere near death after he beat frieza...nevermind the fact that zenkais are inconsistent and most of the time goku and vegeta received about double increase instead of the 33 times increase. All of this was of course said to you before.....but hey people like you dont let a thing called facts get in your way huh. You'd have to be a complete and total idiot to think cooler or frieza is anywhere near first form cell who single handely owned 17 who could kill goku, vegeta, trunks and piccolo at the same time if he wanted to. "
#21 Posted by Louisiana Bob (912 posts) - - Show Bio

i'm not going to waste my time on torrents of the japanese version of coolers revenge just to see if prince is lying or not..most likely he is...same as always. But the fact that coolers 5th form got one shotted by gokus super saiyan form and frieza put up enough of a fight that goku only won due to frieza using too much energy......it's fair to say that frieza stomps

#22 Posted by OmegaDynasty (9184 posts) - - Show Bio
@Louisiana Bob said:
" i'm not going to waste my time on torrents of the japanese version of coolers revenge just to see if prince is lying or not..most likely he is...same as always. But the fact that coolers 5th form got one shotted by gokus super saiyan form and frieza put up enough of a fight that goku only won due to frieza using too much energy......it's fair to say that frieza stomps "
Well, that is kinda unfair to say. You can only accomplish so much in a movie. The series with Frieza vs Goku was long and drawn out so Frieza could show a lot more feats.
#23 Posted by Louisiana Bob (912 posts) - - Show Bio
@OmegaDynasty said:
" @Louisiana Bob said:
" i'm not going to waste my time on torrents of the japanese version of coolers revenge just to see if prince is lying or not..most likely he is...same as always. But the fact that coolers 5th form got one shotted by gokus super saiyan form and frieza put up enough of a fight that goku only won due to frieza using too much energy......it's fair to say that frieza stomps "
Well, that is kinda unfair to say. You can only accomplish so much in a movie. The series with Frieza vs Goku was long and drawn out so Frieza could show a lot more feats. "
it isn't at all unfair. Broly, android 13, turless all singly handedly owned goku without much effort. Cooler did not. Frieza when using 100% full power was almost equal to goku and he put up a decent fight....cooler was downed from a single punch to the gut and then got blasted into the sun.
#24 Posted by OmegaDynasty (9184 posts) - - Show Bio
@Louisiana Bob said:
" @OmegaDynasty said:
" @Louisiana Bob said:
" i'm not going to waste my time on torrents of the japanese version of coolers revenge just to see if prince is lying or not..most likely he is...same as always. But the fact that coolers 5th form got one shotted by gokus super saiyan form and frieza put up enough of a fight that goku only won due to frieza using too much energy......it's fair to say that frieza stomps "
Well, that is kinda unfair to say. You can only accomplish so much in a movie. The series with Frieza vs Goku was long and drawn out so Frieza could show a lot more feats. "
it isn't at all unfair. Broly, android 13, turless all singly handedly owned goku without much effort. Cooler did not. Frieza when using 100% full power was almost equal to goku and he put up a decent fight....cooler was downed from a single punch to the gut and then got blasted into the sun. "
Well I remember him getting punched in the gut, didn't down him just staggered him a bit. Then he made the Super Nova when Goku wasn't paying attention saying something like " Should keep your eye's on me more as I can gather energy quicker then my little brother(Frieza.)
#25 Posted by Louisiana Bob (912 posts) - - Show Bio
@OmegaDynasty said:
" @Louisiana Bob said:
" @OmegaDynasty said:
" @Louisiana Bob said:
" i'm not going to waste my time on torrents of the japanese version of coolers revenge just to see if prince is lying or not..most likely he is...same as always. But the fact that coolers 5th form got one shotted by gokus super saiyan form and frieza put up enough of a fight that goku only won due to frieza using too much energy......it's fair to say that frieza stomps "
Well, that is kinda unfair to say. You can only accomplish so much in a movie. The series with Frieza vs Goku was long and drawn out so Frieza could show a lot more feats. "
it isn't at all unfair. Broly, android 13, turless all singly handedly owned goku without much effort. Cooler did not. Frieza when using 100% full power was almost equal to goku and he put up a decent fight....cooler was downed from a single punch to the gut and then got blasted into the sun. "
Well I remember him getting punched in the gut, didn't down him just staggered him a bit. Then he made the Super Nova when Goku wasn't paying attention saying something like " Should keep your eye's on me more as I can gather energy quicker then my little brother(Frieza.) "
he got punched in th gut and staggered off like a punk...after his punches didn't even phase goku...unlike friezas.....and then made a super nova attack (an attack that blew up planet vegeta) and goku held it off with his bare hands and then he blasted cooler into the sun. Anyway you want to look at it...frieza did way better than cooler and cooler had an extra transformation
#26 Posted by OmegaDynasty (9184 posts) - - Show Bio
@Louisiana Bob said:
" @OmegaDynasty said:
" @Louisiana Bob said:
" @OmegaDynasty said:
" @Louisiana Bob said:
" i'm not going to waste my time on torrents of the japanese version of coolers revenge just to see if prince is lying or not..most likely he is...same as always. But the fact that coolers 5th form got one shotted by gokus super saiyan form and frieza put up enough of a fight that goku only won due to frieza using too much energy......it's fair to say that frieza stomps "
Well, that is kinda unfair to say. You can only accomplish so much in a movie. The series with Frieza vs Goku was long and drawn out so Frieza could show a lot more feats. "
it isn't at all unfair. Broly, android 13, turless all singly handedly owned goku without much effort. Cooler did not. Frieza when using 100% full power was almost equal to goku and he put up a decent fight....cooler was downed from a single punch to the gut and then got blasted into the sun. "
Well I remember him getting punched in the gut, didn't down him just staggered him a bit. Then he made the Super Nova when Goku wasn't paying attention saying something like " Should keep your eye's on me more as I can gather energy quicker then my little brother(Frieza.) "
he got punched in th gut and staggered off like a punk...after his punches didn't even phase goku...unlike friezas.....and then made a super nova attack (an attack that blew up planet vegeta) and goku held it off with his bare hands and then he blasted cooler into the sun. Anyway you want to look at it...frieza did way better than cooler and cooler had an extra transformation "
Yeah, I suppose he was lame. 
#27 Edited by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@Louisiana Bob said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @Louisiana Bob said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" Both Base Cooler and Base Goku in Movie 5 were stronger than 100% Freeza at that point. Cooler takes this with ease. "

XD and once again with this... honestly...after being proven wrong.....4 times now..you still keep saying this.....why? Just shhh "

Quit trolling. I played that game a long time ago and I discovered it isn't cute. Hopefully you'll learn the same but dude, nobody on here takes you seriously at all. 
 
@Louisiana Bob said:

" also frieza stomps. not only did cooler state that frieza was stronger than he is...but he did not get one shotted and embarrassed by goku like cooler was.  "


Amazing you claim to know so much about DBZ yet you're so off the mark here. 
 

@Darth_Amaron

said:

" did cooler really admitted that frieza was stronger? or was it just a mistake in the english dub? "

The only thing even possibly indicating Freeza was stronger in their original forms is when Cooler says in the FUNI English dub "Freeza was always trying to prove he was better than me and he definitely had the edge, but then I transformed". Having the edge can mean a lot of things so that's not a clear indication. In the Japanese TOEI dub, Cooler makes absolutely no mention of Freeza possibly being stronger. 
 
in the official translation of Movie 5, Cooler simply says to SSJ Goku: "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" The statement flows perfectly with everything else up to that point. Cooler finds out his younger brother was killed by a Saiyan, Cooler fearlessly seeks this Saiyan out, Cooler invites this same Saiyan to attack him (specifically, to show him the power capable of killing Freeza), gets taken by surprise by that power, and then confirms that Goku was indeed powerful enough to have defeated Freeza. And to top it all off, he never planned to rely on his most powerful transformation. And as for Goku, he got, near a 33x zenkai on Namek. So with a base-form BP higher than 3,000,000, his zenkai would only need to be less than a 40x increase to line up with Cooler's "good enough" statement. Again, nothing out-of-the-ordinary about that. The only way that they aren't stupidly powerful is if Cooler knew nothing of Freeza's max power. And honestly, why would the older brother be left in the dark about that? Piccolo's strength increased by more than 50x just through sheer training, but it's silly to think that in the Toei-verse of all places, Goku couldn't have gotten a ~40x power increase with a zenkai? Movies 5 and 6 have some crazy power scaling going on, you can't fit it perfectly with the battle powers in the main timeline.  Either way, Cooler's (base) battle power is officially higher than Freeza's by 20 million. So whether or not he guessed that he was stronger, or if he just *knew*, he was correct. I think that's all that matters.  "
XD sir you keep babbling on about me trolling you because you totally got this ridiculous statement you keep copy pasting shot down...but it just makes me laugh.  So once more..you not knowing what you're talking about and having that proven does not make everyone else a troll...mkay
 
since you keep copy pasting the same ignorant crap that was shot down so many times before i'll copy paste the post that did so. 
 
 " Again   cooler fighting goku in super saiyan form   and going i see why my brother was killed equals   base form goku is stronger than frieza .............do you even know what logic is?     and by the way goku at ssj on namek was 150,000,000..his base was 3,000,000...if going by your half assed logic that i will tear down later...that would mean gokus base form after zenkai was 99,000,000....still lower than his super saiyan form...so not only do you use logic that cant even be considered logic..but you're still wrong. And for the record goku received a high ass zenkai after being near death....he wasnt anywhere near death after he beat frieza...nevermind the fact that zenkais are inconsistent and most of the time goku and vegeta received about double increase instead of the 33 times increase. All of this was of course said to you before.....but hey people like you dont let a thing called facts get in your way huh. You'd have to be a complete and total idiot to think cooler or frieza is anywhere near first form cell who single handely owned 17 who could kill goku, vegeta, trunks and piccolo at the same time if he wanted to. " "
 
 
Goku's power level was 3,000,000 on Namek. When you combine that with Master Roshi mentioning him getting stronger since he returned to Earth, there you go. His base power level was above 3,000,000 right from the start. Daizenshuu 6 states that Movie 5 takes place after Trunks appears. So, the events on Namek still took place. Cooler's henchman Dore thinks that it's impossible to survive Cooler's destructive ray, yet was corrected on that (by Cooler himself) - it's pretty obvious that Goku wasn't weaker than anyone besides Cooler, prior to the zenkai.  Piccolo's post-Namek battle power would be over a million, since he was stronger than the "over a million" 2nd form Freeza. And Goku, who was even stronger than him was smiled at after using a kiai on Sauza/Neiz/Dore, landing a physical blow, being restrained by one of them, and taking some time and effort to deflect a ki blast from Sauza. Together, they're strong enough to cause Goku trouble. And Goku's superior to Piccolo, who's battle power is over a million.  
 
But either way you slice it (and even if you remove Cooler from the scene for a bit) - Yardrat Goku still had two jumps in power during the course of Movie 5 (one of them huge...), and he still couldn't bring himself to resist Cooler's signature technique. I mean, really, did the gap in power even seem to be that large between the two when all was said and done? Cooler's punch (to SSJ Goku) looked like it had hardly any force behind it, and he simply laughed off Goku's two-hit combo, which wasn't dissimilar to Goku's laughter after 100% Freeza was allowed to get in a powerful-looking blow. If Cooler was so pathetically weak, Goku would've pulled a "Base Vegetto" with the Supernova. But he didn't, the Supernova pushed SSJ Goku into the ground and was completely overpowering him until Goku powered up a Kamehameha to push the Supernova back. Cooler's official power level in base (that means without going into his Final Form) is higher than Freeza's max power level by 20,000,000.
 
You can try and argue this all you want but Freeza gets utterly stomped no matter what way you try and spin it. 
#28 Edited by Louisiana Bob (912 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:

" @Louisiana Bob said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @Louisiana Bob said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" Both Base Cooler and Base Goku in Movie 5 were stronger than 100% Freeza at that point. Cooler takes this with ease. "

XD and once again with this... honestly...after being proven wrong.....4 times now..you still keep saying this.....why? Just shhh "

Quit trolling. I played that game a long time ago and I discovered it isn't cute. Hopefully you'll learn the same but dude, nobody on here takes you seriously at all. 
 

@Louisiana Bob

said:

" also frieza stomps. not only did cooler state that frieza was stronger than he is...but he did not get one shotted and embarrassed by goku like cooler was.  "


Amazing you claim to know so much about DBZ yet you're so off the mark here. 
 

@Darth_Amaron

said:

" did cooler really admitted that frieza was stronger? or was it just a mistake in the english dub? "

The only thing even possibly indicating Freeza was stronger in their original forms is when Cooler says in the FUNI English dub "Freeza was always trying to prove he was better than me and he definitely had the edge, but then I transformed". Having the edge can mean a lot of things so that's not a clear indication. In the Japanese TOEI dub, Cooler makes absolutely no mention of Freeza possibly being stronger. 
 
in the official translation of Movie 5, Cooler simply says to SSJ Goku: "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" The statement flows perfectly with everything else up to that point. Cooler finds out his younger brother was killed by a Saiyan, Cooler fearlessly seeks this Saiyan out, Cooler invites this same Saiyan to attack him (specifically, to show him the power capable of killing Freeza), gets taken by surprise by that power, and then confirms that Goku was indeed powerful enough to have defeated Freeza. And to top it all off, he never planned to rely on his most powerful transformation. And as for Goku, he got, near a 33x zenkai on Namek. So with a base-form BP higher than 3,000,000, his zenkai would only need to be less than a 40x increase to line up with Cooler's "good enough" statement. Again, nothing out-of-the-ordinary about that. The only way that they aren't stupidly powerful is if Cooler knew nothing of Freeza's max power. And honestly, why would the older brother be left in the dark about that? Piccolo's strength increased by more than 50x just through sheer training, but it's silly to think that in the Toei-verse of all places, Goku couldn't have gotten a ~40x power increase with a zenkai? Movies 5 and 6 have some crazy power scaling going on, you can't fit it perfectly with the battle powers in the main timeline.  Either way, Cooler's (base) battle power is officially higher than Freeza's by 20 million. So whether or not he guessed that he was stronger, or if he just *knew*, he was correct. I think that's all that matters.  "
XD sir you keep babbling on about me trolling you because you totally got this ridiculous statement you keep copy pasting shot down...but it just makes me laugh.  So once more..you not knowing what you're talking about and having that proven does not make everyone else a troll...mkay
 
since you keep copy pasting the same ignorant crap that was shot down so many times before i'll copy paste the post that did so. 
 
 " Again   cooler fighting goku in super saiyan form   and going i see why my brother was killed equals   base form goku is stronger than frieza .............do you even know what logic is?     and by the way goku at ssj on namek was 150,000,000..his base was 3,000,000...if going by your half assed logic that i will tear down later...that would mean gokus base form after zenkai was 99,000,000....still lower than his super saiyan form...so not only do you use logic that cant even be considered logic..but you're still wrong. And for the record goku received a high ass zenkai after being near death....he wasnt anywhere near death after he beat frieza...nevermind the fact that zenkais are inconsistent and most of the time goku and vegeta received about double increase instead of the 33 times increase. All of this was of course said to you before.....but hey people like you dont let a thing called facts get in your way huh. You'd have to be a complete and total idiot to think cooler or frieza is anywhere near first form cell who single handely owned 17 who could kill goku, vegeta, trunks and piccolo at the same time if he wanted to. " "
 
 
Goku's power level was 3,000,000 on Namek. When you combine that with Master Roshi mentioning him getting stronger since he returned to Earth, there you go. His base power level was above 3,000,000 right from the start. Daizenshuu 6 states that Movie 5 takes place after Trunks appears. So, the events on Namek still took place. Cooler's henchman Dore thinks that it's impossible to survive Cooler's destructive ray, yet was corrected on that (by Cooler himself) - it's pretty obvious that Goku wasn't weaker than anyone besides Cooler, prior to the zenkai.  Piccolo's post-Namek battle power would be over a million, since he was stronger than the "over a million" 2nd form Freeza. And Goku, who was even stronger than him was smiled at after using a kiai on Sauza/Neiz/Dore, landing a physical blow, being restrained by one of them, and taking some time and effort to deflect a ki blast from Sauza. Together, they're strong enough to cause Goku trouble. And Goku's superior to Piccolo, who's battle power is over a million.  
 
But either way you slice it (and even if you remove Cooler from the scene for a bit) - Yardrat Goku still had two jumps in power during the course of Movie 5 (one of them huge...), and he still couldn't bring himself to resist Cooler's signature technique. I mean, really, did the gap in power even seem to be that large between the two when all was said and done? Cooler's punch (to SSJ Goku) looked like it had hardly any force behind it, and he simply laughed off Goku's two-hit combo, which wasn't dissimilar to Goku's laughter after 100% Freeza was allowed to get in a powerful-looking blow. If Cooler was so pathetically weak, Goku would've pulled a "Base Vegetto" with the Supernova. But he didn't, the Supernova pushed SSJ Goku into the ground and was completely overpowering him until Goku powered up a Kamehameha to push the Supernova back. Cooler's official power level in base (that means without going into his Final Form) is higher than Freeza's max power level by 20,000,000.  You can try and argue this all you want but Freeza gets utterly stomped no matter what way you try and spin it.  "

 
idk what you aim to prove by coolers henchmen going OMG no one can survive that when the ginyu force didnt think goku could take on them yet alone frieza. 
  
i dont know what you aim to prove by talking about goku struggled with coolers henchmen when piccolo basically one shotted them..and then say piccolo is weaker than goku.  

i dont know why you choose to keep babbling on about gaps of power/ huge power boost when that was already shot down...one of which was shot down by yourself. 
 
frieza was allowed to shoot goku with an energy blast in the face...which goku already knocked away in base form..when frieza was still not using 100 power...and you're comparing that with cooler using his final form and punching goku and failing to even make him flinch....when frieza caused him pain....brilliant. 
 
Goku pushed off the supernova attack with his bare hands prompting cooler to scream what and then goku blasted it away with a K-wave..so no 
 
please spare everyone you giving Cooler an "official" PL as if you're akira toryiama...it's not cute. Theres absolutely nothing to argue about prince. You keep pathetically using abc logic that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to try and say cooler is stronger than goku...you're own math fails....your abc logic of goku fought blah blah blah fails....and then you accuse me of trying to put a spin on things...seriously just hush already
 
Base form goku is not stronger than super saiyan form 
 
and cooler isn't stronger than frieza
#29 Posted by heraldthemoth (99 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh come on guys no need to fight. DBZ BATTLES ARE AWESOME!

#30 Edited by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@Louisiana Bob: 

  @Louisiana Bob said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @Louisiana Bob said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" @Louisiana Bob said:

" @Prince CortSether said:

" Both Base Cooler and Base Goku in Movie 5 were stronger than 100% Freeza at that point. Cooler takes this with ease. "

XD and once again with this... honestly...after being proven wrong.....4 times now..you still keep saying this.....why? Just shhh "

Quit trolling. I played that game a long time ago and I discovered it isn't cute. Hopefully you'll learn the same but dude, nobody on here takes you seriously at all. 
 

@Louisiana Bob

said:

" also frieza stomps. not only did cooler state that frieza was stronger than he is...but he did not get one shotted and embarrassed by goku like cooler was.  "


Amazing you claim to know so much about DBZ yet you're so off the mark here. 
 

@Darth_Amaron

said:

" did cooler really admitted that frieza was stronger? or was it just a mistake in the english dub? "

The only thing even possibly indicating Freeza was stronger in their original forms is when Cooler says in the FUNI English dub "Freeza was always trying to prove he was better than me and he definitely had the edge, but then I transformed". Having the edge can mean a lot of things so that's not a clear indication. In the Japanese TOEI dub, Cooler makes absolutely no mention of Freeza possibly being stronger. 
 
in the official translation of Movie 5, Cooler simply says to SSJ Goku: "I see... So this is why my brother was no match for you!" The statement flows perfectly with everything else up to that point. Cooler finds out his younger brother was killed by a Saiyan, Cooler fearlessly seeks this Saiyan out, Cooler invites this same Saiyan to attack him (specifically, to show him the power capable of killing Freeza), gets taken by surprise by that power, and then confirms that Goku was indeed powerful enough to have defeated Freeza. And to top it all off, he never planned to rely on his most powerful transformation. And as for Goku, he got, near a 33x zenkai on Namek. So with a base-form BP higher than 3,000,000, his zenkai would only need to be less than a 40x increase to line up with Cooler's "good enough" statement. Again, nothing out-of-the-ordinary about that. The only way that they aren't stupidly powerful is if Cooler knew nothing of Freeza's max power. And honestly, why would the older brother be left in the dark about that? Piccolo's strength increased by more than 50x just through sheer training, but it's silly to think that in the Toei-verse of all places, Goku couldn't have gotten a ~40x power increase with a zenkai? Movies 5 and 6 have some crazy power scaling going on, you can't fit it perfectly with the battle powers in the main timeline.  Either way, Cooler's (base) battle power is officially higher than Freeza's by 20 million. So whether or not he guessed that he was stronger, or if he just *knew*, he was correct. I think that's all that matters.  "
XD sir you keep babbling on about me trolling you because you totally got this ridiculous statement you keep copy pasting shot down...but it just makes me laugh.  So once more..you not knowing what you're talking about and having that proven does not make everyone else a troll...mkay
 
since you keep copy pasting the same ignorant crap that was shot down so many times before i'll copy paste the post that did so. 
 
 " Again   cooler fighting goku in super saiyan form   and going i see why my brother was killed equals   base form goku is stronger than frieza .............do you even know what logic is?     and by the way goku at ssj on namek was 150,000,000..his base was 3,000,000...if going by your half assed logic that i will tear down later...that would mean gokus base form after zenkai was 99,000,000....still lower than his super saiyan form...so not only do you use logic that cant even be considered logic..but you're still wrong. And for the record goku received a high ass zenkai after being near death....he wasnt anywhere near death after he beat frieza...nevermind the fact that zenkais are inconsistent and most of the time goku and vegeta received about double increase instead of the 33 times increase. All of this was of course said to you before.....but hey people like you dont let a thing called facts get in your way huh. You'd have to be a complete and total idiot to think cooler or frieza is anywhere near first form cell who single handely owned 17 who could kill goku, vegeta, trunks and piccolo at the same time if he wanted to. " "
 
 
Goku's power level was 3,000,000 on Namek. When you combine that with Master Roshi mentioning him getting stronger since he returned to Earth, there you go. His base power level was above 3,000,000 right from the start. Daizenshuu 6 states that Movie 5 takes place after Trunks appears. So, the events on Namek still took place. Cooler's henchman Dore thinks that it's impossible to survive Cooler's destructive ray, yet was corrected on that (by Cooler himself) - it's pretty obvious that Goku wasn't weaker than anyone besides Cooler, prior to the zenkai.  Piccolo's post-Namek battle power would be over a million, since he was stronger than the "over a million" 2nd form Freeza. And Goku, who was even stronger than him was smiled at after using a kiai on Sauza/Neiz/Dore, landing a physical blow, being restrained by one of them, and taking some time and effort to deflect a ki blast from Sauza. Together, they're strong enough to cause Goku trouble. And Goku's superior to Piccolo, who's battle power is over a million.  
 
But either way you slice it (and even if you remove Cooler from the scene for a bit) - Yardrat Goku still had two jumps in power during the course of Movie 5 (one of them huge...), and he still couldn't bring himself to resist Cooler's signature technique. I mean, really, did the gap in power even seem to be that large between the two when all was said and done? Cooler's punch (to SSJ Goku) looked like it had hardly any force behind it, and he simply laughed off Goku's two-hit combo, which wasn't dissimilar to Goku's laughter after 100% Freeza was allowed to get in a powerful-looking blow. If Cooler was so pathetically weak, Goku would've pulled a "Base Vegetto" with the Supernova. But he didn't, the Supernova pushed SSJ Goku into the ground and was completely overpowering him until Goku powered up a Kamehameha to push the Supernova back. Cooler's official power level in base (that means without going into his Final Form) is higher than Freeza's max power level by 20,000,000.  You can try and argue this all you want but Freeza gets utterly stomped no matter what way you try and spin it.  "
 idk what you aim to prove by coolers henchmen going OMG no one can survive that when the ginyu force didnt think goku could take on them yet alone frieza.
 
The fact that Goku was obviously the strongest one there aside from Cooler
 
 
i dont know what you aim to prove by talking about goku struggled with coolers henchmen when piccolo basically one shotted them..and then say piccolo is weaker than goku. 
 
Goku wasn't being serious. Piccolo removed his weighted clothes from the beginning and wasted no time in trying to kill them. 
 
 i dont know why you choose to keep babbling on about gaps of power/ huge power boost when that was already shot down...one of which was shot down by yourself.  
 
You never actually shot down anything and I never shot down anything by myself. Quit making up scenarios that never happened. 
 
frieza was allowed to shoot goku with an energy blast in the face...which goku already knocked away in base form..when frieza was still not using 100 power...and you're comparing that with cooler using his final form and punching goku and failing to even make him flinch....when frieza caused him pain....brilliant.  
 
That's not even the instance I'm talking about. I said Cooler laughing off a SSJ Goku's two-hit combo was akin to the instance SSJ Goku laughed off what looked like was a powerful blow from 100% Freeza. 
 
Goku pushed off the supernova attack with his bare hands prompting cooler to scream what and then goku blasted it away with a K-wave..so no
 
Proof that you don't even remember the movie. The Supernova was pushing SSJ Goku into the earth and was even partially burrowed into the earth's crust. Goku was just able to push back the Supernova by firing a massive Kamehameha at. 
 
  please spare everyone you giving Cooler an "official" PL as if you're akira toryiama...it's not cute. Theres absolutely nothing to argue about prince. 
 
Exactly. So stop arguing that Freeza is superior to Cooler in any form. Because he isn't.
 
You keep pathetically using abc logic that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to try and say cooler is stronger than goku...you're own math fails....your abc logic of goku fought blah blah blah fails....and then you accuse me of trying to put a spin on things...seriously just hush already 
 
Actually what I said makes perfect sense and you're just choosing to ignore it because you like to troll me and argue with anything I say regarding DBZ.
 
Base form goku is not stronger than super saiyan form  and cooler isn't stronger than frieza 
 
SSJ Goku Movie 5 > Final Form Cooler > Kaioken Goku Movie 5 > Base Goku Movie 5 = Base Cooler Movie 5 > 100% Freeza
 
"
#31 Posted by crmidnight (719 posts) - - Show Bio
@alexman113 said:
"Actually, I wanna say Frieza takes this. Cooler said that Frieza was always stronger than him and base Goku beat him to the point that he felt he would need to transform. Frieza didnt even need 100% to beat base Goku. on top of that, 100% Final form Frieza put up a much better fight against SSJ Goku than Final form Cooler. "

Gotta agree completely! But something else to take into consideration... 
Timeline wise, Goku fought Cooler after his business on Namek, where in that case, 
he was already MUCH stronger since he healed from substantial damage and was  
already transformed by then. Still, Goku DID beat Cooler's 3rd form with minimal effort, 
yet he struggled with Frieza's Fianl form at 50% power... 
Gotta say Frieza on this one...
#32 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@crmidnight said:
" @alexman113 said:
"Actually, I wanna say Frieza takes this. Cooler said that Frieza was always stronger than him and base Goku beat him to the point that he felt he would need to transform. Frieza didnt even need 100% to beat base Goku. on top of that, 100% Final form Frieza put up a much better fight against SSJ Goku than Final form Cooler. "
Gotta agree completely! But something else to take into consideration... Timeline wise, Goku fought Cooler after his business on Namek, where in that case, he was already MUCH stronger since he healed from substantial damage and was  already transformed by then. Still, Goku DID beat Cooler's 3rd form with minimal effort, yet he struggled with Frieza's Fianl form at 50% power... Gotta say Frieza on this one... "
Goku and Cooler were stalemating with Goku maybe having the slight edge. Cooler was still perfectly fine after their initial fight ended. He then stated that it was clearly enough power to defeat Freeza. Goku was stronger than Freeza's full power while in base form in Movie 5.
#33 Posted by crmidnight (719 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
" @crmidnight said:
" @alexman113 said:
"Actually, I wanna say Frieza takes this. Cooler said that Frieza was always stronger than him and base Goku beat him to the point that he felt he would need to transform. Frieza didnt even need 100% to beat base Goku. on top of that, 100% Final form Frieza put up a much better fight against SSJ Goku than Final form Cooler. "
Gotta agree completely! But something else to take into consideration... Timeline wise, Goku fought Cooler after his business on Namek, where in that case, he was already MUCH stronger since he healed from substantial damage and was  already transformed by then. Still, Goku DID beat Cooler's 3rd form with minimal effort, yet he struggled with Frieza's Fianl form at 50% power... Gotta say Frieza on this one... "
Goku and Cooler were stalemating with Goku maybe having the slight edge. Cooler was still perfectly fine after their initial fight ended. He then stated that it was clearly enough power to defeat Freeza. Goku was stronger than Freeza's full power while in base form in Movie 5. "

He never said "It's clearly enough to defeat Frieza" he said something along the lines, "Now I can see why you gave my brother so much trouble." They didn't really stalemate, either. Goku was actually winning. Cooler didn't really land any punches on Goku in that form. However, when he transformed, he curbstomped Goku until Goku transformed as well. 
 
Either way, the thread never said Frieza can't use 100% power. 100% power could probably wipe out Cooler 3rd form. Cooler's final transformation, I will admitt would Curbstomp Frieza, but in this thread, that's not the case.
#34 Edited by Louisiana Bob (912 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether:  
 and yet goku struggle with friezas henchmen when piccolo just showed up and pretty much one shotted them


lol they attacked his son but goku wasnt being serious.....sure


i shot down everything you said but you can have whatever dilsusion you like..i couldnt care less. You babbling about goku struggling with friezas henchmen and then saying oh piccolo came and wiped the floor with them..and then saying goku is stronger than piccolo....yeah you pretty much owned yourself. And of course in the next post you babble on about goku not being serious.....if you didnt think goku was being serious..why the hell would you mention goku struggling agianst frizas henchmen and his attaacks being laughed at in an effort...yes..you owned yourself..contradicted yourself..but again..what else is new


lol what? The only time goku told frieza to take a free shot at him was when frieza used death ray and couldnt hit gku..to which goku said he would stop and let himself be hit by it...and friez wasnt using full power..so again i dont know why you're sitting here talking about goku giving cooler a free shot and obviously not being hurt by the blows..and cooler was using his an extra transformation than frieza...and it did not phase goku..when friezas blows did.


sir sitting here saying something having it shot down and telling me im wrong and that its proof that im wrong becaus what you think happened is what really happened......yeah...lulz


  
  
4:48


sir im not about to play this nu uh uh huh game with you either...anyone who can read can see my post tore a whole right through all of your non sense so im not concerned with your nu uh's


when you can figure out that 99,000,000 is less than 150,000,000 then i will actually take you seriously. You can have whatever opinion you want...just know that yours is wrong. have a nice night    
#35 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@crmidnight said:
" @Prince CortSether said:
" @crmidnight said:
" @alexman113 said:
"Actually, I wanna say Frieza takes this. Cooler said that Frieza was always stronger than him and base Goku beat him to the point that he felt he would need to transform. Frieza didnt even need 100% to beat base Goku. on top of that, 100% Final form Frieza put up a much better fight against SSJ Goku than Final form Cooler. "
Gotta agree completely! But something else to take into consideration... Timeline wise, Goku fought Cooler after his business on Namek, where in that case, he was already MUCH stronger since he healed from substantial damage and was  already transformed by then. Still, Goku DID beat Cooler's 3rd form with minimal effort, yet he struggled with Frieza's Fianl form at 50% power... Gotta say Frieza on this one... "
Goku and Cooler were stalemating with Goku maybe having the slight edge. Cooler was still perfectly fine after their initial fight ended. He then stated that it was clearly enough power to defeat Freeza. Goku was stronger than Freeza's full power while in base form in Movie 5. "
He never said "It's clearly enough to defeat Frieza" he said something along the lines, "Now I can see why you gave my brother so much trouble." They didn't really stalemate, either. Goku was actually winning. Cooler didn't really land any punches on Goku in that form. However, when he transformed, he curbstomped Goku until Goku transformed as well.  Either way, the thread never said Frieza can't use 100% power. 100% power could probably wipe out Cooler 3rd form. Cooler's final transformation, I will admitt would Curbstomp Frieza, but in this thread, that's not the case. "
Never said that Cooler can't use 100% either. Though it's not like he'd need it, he'd still win. 100% Freeza lost to a SSJ Goku on Namek who was weaker than Goku's base form in Movie 5. Regardless, Cooler recognized that Goku's base was enough to give him the win. It was stalemating. Goku gets in a flurry of punches when Cooler says he wants to see the power that defeated his brother, and then after he was hit he catches both of Goku's fists and forces the fight in the water. Even when the fight ended, Cooler is standing there perfectly fine, not even breathing heavily or anything.
#36 Posted by crmidnight (719 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
Never said that Cooler can't use 100% either. Though it's not like he'd need it, he'd still win. 100% Freeza lost to a SSJ Goku on Namek who was weaker than Goku's base form in Movie 5. Regardless, Cooler recognized that Goku's base was enough to give him the win. It was stalemating. Goku gets in a flurry of punches when Cooler says he wants to see the power that defeated his brother, and then after he was hit he catches both of Goku's fists and forces the fight in the water. Even when the fight ended, Cooler is standing there perfectly fine, not even breathing heavily or anything. " 
 
Thing is, Cooler, I believe was using 100%. It also said Cooler can't transform. Only reason cooler would transform is if his current form wasn't capable of beating Goku. And the fight was NOT stalemated. Goku was beating him. Clearly. After the fight in the water takes place, Cooler's defense improves a bit, but he still gets beat, nonetheless and tossed out of the water. And the breathing heavily thing doesn't mean squat. Probably because Cooler wasn't landing any punches. He was just taking a beating. Plain and simple, Cooler's 3rd form lost that fight. No denying. Proof is in the video.
#37 Posted by crmidnight (719 posts) - - Show Bio
@Louisiana Bob said:
"@Prince CortSether:  
 and yet goku struggle with friezas henchmen when piccolo just showed up and pretty much one shotted them


lol they attacked his son but goku wasnt being serious.....sure


i shot down everything you said but you can have whatever dilsusion you like..i couldnt care less. You babbling about goku struggling with friezas henchmen and then saying oh piccolo came and wiped the floor with them..and then saying goku is stronger than piccolo....yeah you pretty much owned yourself. And of course in the next post you babble on about goku not being serious.....if you didnt think goku was being serious..why the hell would you mention goku struggling agianst frizas henchmen and his attaacks being laughed at in an effort...yes..you owned yourself..contradicted yourself..but again..what else is new


lol what? The only time goku told frieza to take a free shot at him was when frieza used death ray and couldnt hit gku..to which goku said he would stop and let himself be hit by it...and friez wasnt using full power..so again i dont know why you're sitting here talking about goku giving cooler a free shot and obviously not being hurt by the blows..and cooler was using his an extra transformation than frieza...and it did not phase goku..when friezas blows did.


sir sitting here saying something having it shot down and telling me im wrong and that its proof that im wrong becaus what you think happened is what really happened......yeah...lulz


  
  4:48sir im not about to play this nu uh uh huh game with you either...anyone who can read can see my post tore a whole right through all of your non sense so im not concerned with your nu uh'swhen you can figure out that 99,000,000 is less than 150,000,000 then i will actually take you seriously. You can have whatever opinion you want...just know that yours is wrong. have a nice night     "

Not all to sure where you're getting 150,000,000 power level from. If I'm not mistaken, it's only about 15,000,000. Same thing with the 99,000,000... In Frieza/Cooler era, the power levels weren't nearly that high!
#38 Posted by Louisiana Bob (912 posts) - - Show Bio
@crmidnight said:
" @Louisiana Bob said:
"@Prince CortSether:  
 and yet goku struggle with friezas henchmen when piccolo just showed up and pretty much one shotted them


lol they attacked his son but goku wasnt being serious.....sure


i shot down everything you said but you can have whatever dilsusion you like..i couldnt care less. You babbling about goku struggling with friezas henchmen and then saying oh piccolo came and wiped the floor with them..and then saying goku is stronger than piccolo....yeah you pretty much owned yourself. And of course in the next post you babble on about goku not being serious.....if you didnt think goku was being serious..why the hell would you mention goku struggling agianst frizas henchmen and his attaacks being laughed at in an effort...yes..you owned yourself..contradicted yourself..but again..what else is new


lol what? The only time goku told frieza to take a free shot at him was when frieza used death ray and couldnt hit gku..to which goku said he would stop and let himself be hit by it...and friez wasnt using full power..so again i dont know why you're sitting here talking about goku giving cooler a free shot and obviously not being hurt by the blows..and cooler was using his an extra transformation than frieza...and it did not phase goku..when friezas blows did.


sir sitting here saying something having it shot down and telling me im wrong and that its proof that im wrong becaus what you think happened is what really happened......yeah...lulz


  
  4:48sir im not about to play this nu uh uh huh game with you either...anyone who can read can see my post tore a whole right through all of your non sense so im not concerned with your nu uh'swhen you can figure out that 99,000,000 is less than 150,000,000 then i will actually take you seriously. You can have whatever opinion you want...just know that yours is wrong. have a nice night     "
Not all to sure where you're getting 150,000,000 power level from. If I'm not mistaken, it's only about 15,000,000. Same thing with the 99,000,000... In Frieza/Cooler era, the power levels weren't nearly that high! "

  
from  Daizenshuu 7....approved by akira toryiama...as for that 99,000,000 base form bs...thats something prince cooked up based on his bs theories that have been repeatedly shot down... which doesnt keep him from repeating it over and over again anyway
#39 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@Louisiana Bob:
 
You're using all your arguments as if Goku was at the same strength in Movie 5 as he was on Namek which he definitely wasn't. Your entire argument crumbles based on this. 
 
"i shot down everything you said but you can have whatever dilsusion you like..i couldnt care less." 
- In order for you to have "shot down" anything I said you'd have to have irrefutable proof on your part, which you don't. So enough with that.
 
"You babbling about goku struggling with friezas henchmen and then saying oh piccolo came and wiped the floor with them..and then saying goku is stronger than piccolo....yeah you pretty much owned yourself. And of course in the next post you babble on about goku not being serious.....if you didnt think goku was being serious..why the hell would you mention goku struggling agianst frizas henchmen and his attaacks being laughed at in an effort...yes..you owned yourself..contradicted yourself..but again..what else is new"
- I did no such thing. I said they were strong enough to cause Goku trouble. Which is true in a sense. They were able to at least go toe-to-toe with a relaxed Goku and didn't get completely outclassed reminiscent of Goku's fight with the Ginyu Force. Piccolo was serious in his battle with Cooler's Squad which is how he was able to end them all effortlessly. Goku wasn't serious. Doore grabbed hold of him for a few seconds after getting kneed in the gut. Goku was about to break free, but decided to let Neiz kick his teammate in the face instead. Other than that one grab, they couldn't touch him, even 3-on-1. Goku was never at a disadvantage in the fight. Piccolo was weaker than Goku in Movie 5. The only reason he fared so much better is because he was serious and tried to kill them right from the get go. Goku was testing them out, which is completely like Goku's personality. Still, the fact that they could even see Goku move at that point says loads about their power. Cooler's top goons were superior to Freeza's top cronies. Sauza even calls Cooler the most illustrious fighter in the universe, and that's without knowing about his final transformation.
 
"and yet goku struggle with friezas henchmen when piccolo just showed up and pretty much one shotted them"
- Goku wasn't trying very hard. Piccolo tried to kill them from the very start. Duh.
 
"lol they attacked his son but goku wasnt being serious.....sure"  
- They just bothered his son and friends for a bit which is why Goku stepped in to fight them in the first place. Yeah, Goku wasn't being serious. Goku likes to test his opponents. They were no longer going after Gohan or Krillin so there's no reason why he'd just one shot them, considering when earlier he was toying with the Ginyu Force on Namek despite the fact that they attacked his son and best friend.
 
"lol what? The only time goku told frieza to take a free shot at him was when frieza used death ray and couldnt hit gku..to which goku said he would stop and let himself be hit by it...and friez wasnt using full power..so again i dont know why you're sitting here talking about goku giving cooler a free shot and obviously not being hurt by the blows" 
- I can tell you like to make things up as you go along. When in any of my posts did I mention Goku letting Freeza take a free shot at him? When did I ever mention Goku giving Cooler a free shot? Dude, you can't even make your rebuttals coherent. 
 
"and cooler was using his an extra transformation than frieza...and it did not phase goku..when friezas blows did."
- Goku was toying with Freeza for the entire duration of the battle in order to humiliate him. You're the only one I know of who doesn't get that. And your argument of "Freeza's blows phased Goku but Cooler's didn't" don't mean squat because Goku was far stronger in Movie 5 then he was on Namek.
 
 @crmidnight: Still, after all that it wasn't like Goku's punches were incredibly effective and had Cooler keeling over. Of course if Cooler didn't transform he'd get his ass kicked, Goku could use kaioken after all.  Still, the difference in power between them wasn't large enough to be a total game breaker if Goku remained in base the whole time. And yea, Cooler says he could see how Goku gave his brother so much trouble, after he earlier says that he would like to see the power that defeated his brother. Cooler is acknowledging that Goku lived up to the fact that he could defeat Freeza.
#40 Posted by Darth_Amaron (57 posts) - - Show Bio

as i remember, goku cooler almost killed goku when he was hit by cooler's eye beams correct? but he was saved by eating senzu beans.does that count as an upgrade since saiyans become stronger every near death experience? plus, the fighting goku experienced at the hands of frieza(that must be a hell of a workout)? 
 
im not saying cooler could one shot goku since its a known fact that goku wasnt even powered up yet when he was hit by cooler's eye beams.the fact that he recovered from a near death experience caused by that attack must have contributed something to goku's overall power right?

#41 Edited by Louisiana Bob (912 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether:  
 No all my arguments are based on logic...facts and what was shown in the manga and movie... You on the other hand...all your arguments are based on...well...bs...theories you cooked up that dont make sense...... theories you made that contradict itself from the start...non sense...ignoring facts..and just poor basic math skills.

 You sat there and babbled on that goku struggled with coolers men...the end. Piccolo basically one shotted them..and then you say goku is stronger than piccolo (which he is) but your logic makes it so he isnt. You can keep making up more excuses it's getting you know where. Again you babbling about goku not trying when he obviously was aint gonna get you anywhere..right a group of men who know frieza threatening to kill goku and beating up his best friend and son and goku throwing energy blasts at thri faces = him not being serious..sure.


"I can tell you like to make things up as you go along. When in any of my posts did I mention Goku letting Freeza take a free shot at him? When did I ever mention Goku giving Cooler a free shot? Dude, you can't even make your rebuttals coherent"



"he simply laughed off Goku's two-hit combo, which wasn't dissimilar to Goku's laughter after 100% Freeza was allowed to get in a powerful-looking blow" - YOU

like honestly you keep babbling about how im a liar this incoherent that isnt getting you anywhere. Your words are there for everyone to see. Every lie...every stupid theory thats shot down....it's there. So dont waste my time with your bs

 XD just like your goku wasnt serious agains coolers men nonsense...you are full of crap in regards to goku "toying" with frieza. Goku went all out against frieza. Again no proof...nothing in gokus words to suggest he was holding back or fooling around...just you making crap up...as usual. the same as always...it's getting you know where. So please dont waste my time. 
   
And if your so called argument of Cooler was stronger than frieza and mecha frieza then his blows should have hurt goku regardless...so again.....your argument fails. You can keep replying and replying each reply you make shows everyone how little you have to say...how little facts you have to present...it's more of your bs bias assumptions..and its getting annoying. Spare everyone your non sense..and make one rebuttal that doesn't contradict what you're saying in the same sentence.....come back when you have a rebuttable that math doesn't fail miserably. Spare me the liar this...duh that when its obvious to anyone with a brain that you don't have anything to add to this topic bus bs. Mkay k thanks bye     

I laugh at you babbling about their not being a big difference in power between cooler and goku when coolers punches didnt even make goku flinch....XD like honestly you cant possibly believe this non sense....no no...you cant possible expect anyone else to believe this non sense...XD...Cooler could not hurt ssj goku....his punches did not cause goku any pain..and yet goku could have finished him when ever he wanted..goku didnt even put all of his strength into his punches that had cooler kneeling over....and yet you want to turn all of that into....oh no no no no no cooler was on par with goku and all of that just mean t he was strong enough to kill fireza....kill that noise..that doesn't even make sense..just shhh. You can butcher that scene as much as you want...you can ignore common sense as much as you want...dont expect other people to listen to such utter non sense thou
#42 Posted by JThree47693 (2538 posts) - - Show Bio

I remember Cooler having to transform just to fight evenly with base Goku, which is quite pathetic. Frieza put up a better fight than Cooler, I say Frieza wins here.
#43 Posted by FLCL1 (9580 posts) - - Show Bio

i have to say frieza here
frieza fought SS1 goku at his best showing and had a good chance of winning
 
cooler didnt last at all
 
btw there is no proof cooler is 10x stronger

#44 Posted by cascadeking09 (6752 posts) - - Show Bio
@JThree47693 said:
" I remember Cooler having to transform just to fight evenly with base Goku, which is quite pathetic. Frieza put up a better fight than Cooler, I say Frieza wins here. "
Im pretty sure they were already evenly matched b4 he even transformed.
#45 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio
@SSGL1 said:

"ITS OVER 9000! "



   
#46 Posted by Shikarenji (1688 posts) - - Show Bio
@progenitor: lol
#47 Posted by mrbobdobalina (1167 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooler is supposed to be more powerful than Frieza.

#48 Posted by Shikarenji (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say cooler

#49 Posted by progenitor (7532 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering Cooler summons ki much faster than his brother (most notably, the Supernova technique), actually is one of the few villains to ever learn the Instant Transmission technique.  Frieza's max power is stated to be 120,000,000.  I doubt that Cooler would be any weaker, especially considering he's not only able to summon ki faster than Frieza, but he also knows how to suppress his ki signature (for clandestine purposes).  Apparently, it was hinted by Goku that he had been holding back against Freiza in order to see just how powerful his last form was.  If that's the case, Goku didn't seem to be holding back against Cooler much.  In fact, Cooler put up a pretty good fight against Goku in SSJ.  I would say that Cooler>Frieza by a slight majority.
#50 Posted by JThree47693 (2538 posts) - - Show Bio
@cascadeking09 said:
" @JThree47693 said:
" I remember Cooler having to transform just to fight evenly with base Goku, which is quite pathetic. Frieza put up a better fight than Cooler, I say Frieza wins here. "
Im pretty sure they were already evenly matched b4 he even transformed. "

I remember Goku getting in that @$$, then Cooler having to transform.