Franklin Richards vs Team

Batman solos all Batman is Omnipotent

and

@darkraiden: again I'm not here for an argument I'm just correcting something.

When odin "knocked out" galactus he was going all out and fell into the odin sleep immediately after it. Galactus however was pretty hungry at the time (nowhere near full power) and got up moments (literally seconds) after it. He didnt run either. Asgard was defenceless and odin was out of the fight, he simply stated that the asgardians were boring him and left. He didn't run away, he just got bored with the asgardians WHILST he was nowhere near full power. He wasn't even damaged from the fight, he healed moments after getting back up.

@hulkman123 said:

@injusticeforall said:

what are adult franklin feats? most of what i've heard is made up.

and

wow. how is he insanely powerful?

@injusticeforall:

lol, you trolling?

He made Galactus his Herald and owned a bunch of Celestials.

Stating the Asgardians bored him seemed like an excuse. Galactus wouldn't leave because he was bored. The whole reason he went there was because some Lifeseed or something could potentially feed him forever. If Galactus thought he could win without much more damage, he'd have kept going. Plus a temporary KO is still a KO.

@darkraiden: odin was out of the fight. Asgard had no resistance to offer. galactus was out cold for 2 seconds then healed instantly. He was severely weakened. If galactus chose to consume Asgard there was nothing anybody could have done, odin was in the odin sleep, thor had no chance and silver surfer probably could have finished things off. Are you implying galactus was scared?

@lol said:@xiix said:

Franklin Richards wins.

But he still sucks.

I fukin hate those wunderkind characters.

Here is other

I wish Valeria Richards was written the same as him: into borderline obscurity.

Pretty sure Odin possessed Destroyer Armor after he did that so he wasn't actually out of the fight. And again, it'd make no sense for Galactus to run unless he thought he'd lose. And Surfer was busy getting solo'd by Thor.

quicksilver solos

@darkraiden: odin was in the odinsleep after he delivered the head butt, there was nothing he could have done. That's odin out of the fight. Thor.... Yh thor ain't touching galactus. Thors a non factor. And Asgard....,what can the rest of Asgard do that odin couldn't? Do you want to know why galactus left? Plot. Call it PIS, WIS or even CIS, considering the reason galactus left was because he was bored. No one in agard could have challenged him, even whilst he was pretty hungry. Odin>>>>>>>>the rest of Asgard. Odin was out of the fight, so what could Asgard do to stop galactus? It was for plot, nothing else.

TBF Thor literally just busted Galactus's helmet like a minute before that. So...for w/e reason he was considered a threat to Galactus in that storyline. And I remember Odin mentioning that he summoned the Destroyer. Did that not happen?

@darkraiden: the only reason galactus didn't finish off Asgard was because of silver surfer. Also how does thor busting the helmet of galactus translate to injuring him!

Why are you arguing with him? It's clear that he doesn't know what he's talking about. This whole time he's been making stuff up. Dr. Doom can solo Franklin Richards? Completely making up what happened in the Galactus vs. Odin fight. Saying Franklin Richard's can't hurt skyfathers. There's no point in arguing with people who clearly haven't read the comics in question and who make stuff up.

Idk Silver Surfer looked concerned, Galactus's head flew back, and it's usually a big deal to break his helmet (most don't do it). In fact it did the same damage the headbutt did.

Seemed to hurt Galactus if you look at it.

Dr. Doom DID solo Franklin Richards. I have the scan. Child Franklin was helpless against Doom. I made up nothing in the Galactus vs. Odin fight, and Franklin Richards has 0 on panel feats of hurting Skyfather level beings. If you have some, show them, otherwise I'm right.

Franklin Richards wins

@darkraiden: I'll address you in a couple of hours. I have other things to do; plus I have to get the scans off my hard drive.

Team

Why?

If it's most powerful incarnations of everyone on team then they totally STOMP

Because he cant beat all teams at the same time

@darkraiden:

Alright, it obviously took me longer than I expected to get these scans together, so shall we begin?

First let's address this Darwin adaptation argument. Previously you wrote this:

And nothing you described Franklin did was above what Darwin has adapted to. He's adapted to the M'Kraan Crystal which is >> everything you named.

Later on you wrote this:

Darwin adapted to the M'Kraan crystal which is the nexus of reality. So yeah he should be able to adapt to a multiversal reality warper.

Then this:

Darwin adapted to the M'Kraan crystal which is the nexus of reality. So yeah he should be able to adapt to a multiversal reality warper.

And finally this:

1. Darwin can SURVIVE Adult Franklin Richards

First, Darwin wasn't the only person who was inside the M'Kraan Crystal. Do you remember why Darwin initially jumped into the M'Kraan Crystal? It was because Vulcan first threw Xavier into the M'Kraan Crystal:

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So, what are you going to argue now? That Xavier also adapted to the M'Kraan Crystal? I don't think so. It's only after Xavier was thrown in that Darwin jumps into the M'Kraan Crystal:

And after Darwin jumps into the M'Kraan Crystal there is NO evidence whatsoever that he adapted to anything:

Indeed, the omniscient text box reads, "Darwin feels it touch him, THEN LEAVE HIM BE as he follows the screams to his teacher..." So, again, Darwin didn't adapt to anything; there was nothing for him to adapt to. The M'Kraan Crystal of its own volition left Darwin alone. And after Darwin finds Xavier they both pass out as soon as they leave:

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In fact, if you pay attention Kurt was the one who had to leave and get help in order to get them out of the battlefield because they both were passed out. Later on both Darwin and Xavier are on the ship and they're STILL passed out:

So, again, what did Darwin adapt to? 1) Xavier was thrown into the M'kraan Crystal first and he survived with no adaptive ability; 2) While Darwin was inside the M'Kraan Crystal he didn't need to adapt to anything because the Crystal left him alone of its own volition; 3) When Xavier and Darwin exited the Crystal they were both knocked out; and 4) When they got back to the ship they were STILL knocked out. Therefore, everything you wrote about Darwin adapting to the M'Kraan Crystal never happened. So, NO, there is no evidence that Darwin can adapt to a multiversal reality warper like Franklin Richards.

Now let's deal with your second point about whether or not Franklin has ever depowered anybody. You wrote this:

2. He's never consciously depowered anyone. Only subconsciously and even then, not really. So yeah.

This is easily disproven. During Hickman's run Franklin Richards depowered both his grandfather and Black Bolt. Here he is taking away his grandfather's ability to time jump:

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His grandfather exclaims, "What did you do? I can't access my powers. I can't move through time." Franklin responds, "Reality is what I make it, grandfather. And right now, I don't want you jumping around...So I'M DENYING YOUR ABILITY TO USE THE PART OF YOUR BRAIN THAT CONTROLS YOUR POWERS."

And here's Franklin doing something similar to Black Bolt:

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Black Bolt gets into it with some Accusers and Franklin shows up. He puts Black Bolt in a box so his words can't affect anybody outside the box and then tells him, "Feel free to speak in here, Black Bolt. Nothing can escape this cube, and I WOULD NEVER ALLOW YOUR WORDS TO HARM ME." Now, this is Black Bolt we're talking about. The same Black Bolt whose voice created the T-Bomb that ripped a hole in the fabric of space-time that was a couple light years big.

So, here's the second thing that you got totally wrong. There are at least two occasions that I'm aware of where Franklin just flat out depowers people so they either can't use their power or they can't harm either himself or other people. So, again, Franklin simply depowering everybody and projecting an empathic field to make the team not want to fight is definitely a viable option for victory.

Now let's deal with this Galactus vs. Odin issue. You wrote this:

3. Nah he KO'd Galactus, his body died, and THEN his spirit inhabited the Destroyer and Galactus ran. And yeah Galactus was KO'd for a quick moment

Are you sure you read this encounter? Because you're not just getting stuff wrong but you're making up stuff that never happened.

First, Odin never KO'd Galactus:

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In the first panel of scan 4 you see Galactus on the ground after both him and Odin hit the Earth but he's clearly NOT knocked out:

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In very short order (after Thor and Odin only have enough time to exchange a few sentences) Galactus is up and completely heals himself. Then in a fit of fury he ignores Silver Surfer's attempts to get him to leave. At this point Asgard is completely helpless. Odin is on the ground barely able to speak and nobody is there to stand in Galactus's way. In fact, Asgard is so helpless that the preacher tries to beg for mercy on Asgard's behalf, but of course Galactus refuses:

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It's pretty clear that Asgard is helpless because Volstagg starts talking about how everybody is prepared to die:

Volstagg tells the preacher, "The gods do not fear death. We fear death without meaning. And this human...this means quite a lot indeed."

However, Galactus does eventually leave and spare Asgard but it has absolutely nothing to do with what you claimed. Galactus only left because Silver Surfer informed him that the Galactus Seed was no longer in Asgard. It was taken from the Destroyer Armor:

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Afterwards, Silver Surfer notices that the Galactus Seed is gone:

It was only after this that Odin summoned the Destroyer Armor to fight Galactus. Right as Galactus is about to strike Asgard, Silver notifies him that the galactus seed is gone:

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Volstagg doesn't know what's going on so he thinks that Galactus is scared of the Destroyer, that's why he says, "Look warriors! He fears us!" But once Galactus learns from Surfer that the Galactus Seed is no longer in Asgard he decides to leave and go look for it elsewhere:

And it's only after all this that Odin even gets up off the ground:

All this stuff about Odin KO'ing Galactus, then dying, becoming a spirit, and inhabiting the Destroyer Armor NEVER happened. I don't know where you got this from.

Now let's deal with this Dr. Doom solo'ing Franklin Richards nonsense. You wrote this:

And I forgot, Doom alone has solo'd Franklin and his armor can absorb his energy and leave him helpless, sot here's another person (along with all the other energy absorbers) who can take out Franklin.

And then this:

4. Yeah. His armor has already drained Franklin. Unless you have a counter

First, let's deal with the obvious: Dr. Doom isn't even in this battle so I don't know how he's even relevant or mentioned.

Second, Dr. Doom NEVER solo'd Franklin Richards and left him helpless. And then you tried to scare me with this:

Dr. Doom DID solo Franklin Richards. I have the scan. Child Franklin was helpless against Doom.

Oh, you mean this scan:

LOL! You're going to argue that Dr. Doom can solo Adult Franklin Richards (and that's the version of Franklin being used in this battle) because he drained Franklin when he was a toddler? LOL! If this was toddler Franklin Richards vs. team your argument might have some validity but to argue that Adult Franklin Richards can be solo'd by anyone capable of energy absorption is ridiculous, to say the least. To claim that Dr. Doom can solo Adult Franklin Richards is crazy.

Now, let's deal with the ridiculous claim that Franklin Richards has never hurt skyfather level characters. You wrote this:

No everyone's not a non-entity. Franklin can't even hurt Skyfathers from what we've seen, only defend from them. And given that there are people here specifically tailor made to take out mutants, he pretty much can't win.

Then this:

5. Franklin never HAS hurt Skyfathers and Skyfather level people.

Is this a joke or what? When Adult Valeria and Franklin get to the battlefield the first thing Adult Franklin does is BFR the Mad Celestials:

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Reed is completely stunned by the feat and asks Franklin about it, "What happened to the Celestials? You just destroyed them with a wave of your hand? You can do something like that?" Then Franklin explains, "No. I SENT THEM TO THE INNER SPHERE OF A LOCAL GAS GIANT. IT'LL CONFUSE THEM MOMENTARILY--BUY US A FEW MOMENTS, but it won't work again." So, Franklin can't hurt skyfathers and skyfather level beings? Yet here he is snapping his fingers and BFR'ing not 1 not 2 but 3 celestials.

Subsequently the Mad Celestials come back and the fight begins:

In the 2nd scan you can clearly see him blast one of the celestials and in bottom panel of scan 3 you can see the hole in its chest. And right after this he flat out KILLS another celestial:

So, Franklin vs. 3 Mad Celestials = Franklin injures 1 and then kills another 1. But he still gets overwhelmed when the third celestial attacks him. After that Franklin revives Galactus and the fight continues:

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When Galactus is revived he immediately kills the celestial Franklin already injured. Galactus then blasts the other remaining celestial, injures it, and Franklin finishes it off:

And in the Future Foundation, which depicts the fight in a flashback, Franklin is, again, shown clearly injuring the Mad Celestials:

And remember these are the same Mad Celestials who had to be fought with an IG and a universal entropy gun by the Council of Reeds:

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And at one point even an Ultimate Nullifier was used against them:

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And pay attention because I'm about to point out something very important. The celestial that got hit with the UN survived and that's the same celestial that Galactus and Adult Franklin fought. That celestial is red with 6 circles on its face, right?

And, again, red with 6 circles on its face.

I mean seriously, this is Franklin Richards we're talking about here. As a kid he beat Mephisto in his own realm not once but twice:

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This was Fantastic Four vol. 1 #277. And again in Fantastic Four Annual #20:

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And if you say that Mephisto in his own realm is not a skyfather level opponent, then you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Franklin Richards as a kid creates baby universes under his covers in bed:

He defends himself against celestials who try to blast him and/or mind rape him:

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And it's been confirmed that he will survive the destruction of the Marvel-616 universe right along with Galactus (who already survived the destruction of the prior universe):

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I very seriously doubt anyone here can even harm a hair on Franklin Richards' head much less try to drain him or copy his powers. On at least two occasions the Mad Celestials identified Franklin as beyond omega classification:

And later here:

Notice the celestials says, "Beyond omega classification. Again." Are you really trying to argue that Hope Summers and Synch can copy the powers of someone who's BEYOND OMEGA CLASSIFICATION? Like I said, since when have they ever shown that type of power? Never.

Finally, lets deal with your last argument. You wrote:

6. His powers operate subconsciously, but he still has to be in danger or want something or be on the defensive. His power is not going to reach far through hundreds of skyfathers, Scarlet Witch, Doom, etc. and aim right for Synch and Hope because they're COPYING him (which isn't even danger for him until they try and use it).

First, this makes absolutely no sense. According to you Franklin Richards is about to engage in a fight but that doesn't count as imminent danger? That's a very...unique definition of danger. You're about to get into a fight but you're not in potential danger. Right...

Second, Franklin's power has been shown to operate subconsciously whenever he's in danger but as I've already proven Franklin can simply depower people if he chooses. You claimed that Franklin has never depowered anybody but I've now shown this to be completely false.

Especially not with people like Leech there who have ALREADY been shown to weaken Franklin.

Leech has never been shown to affect Adult Franklin Richards who, unlike kid Franklin, actually knows how to use his powers. Just like with the Dr. Doom nonsense you tried to pull, you can show me scans of people draining Franklin as a toddler or a kid but that doesn't apply to Adult Franklin.

So, yeah, I think this pretty much ends this debate. It took me a long time to get these scans together; be grateful I gave you this much of my time.

this is spite, but he kills the fantastic 4 just because.

Very nice, good scans. @uberhikari

Franklin wont get past all these skyfathers

@x_insignia1: Thanks.

Yes he will.

@uberhikari: nice scans, but you know that drakraiden wont admit that he was wrong :)

can you tell me from what issues the scans are with the council of reeds and franklins first encounter with the Celestials (the first time they say he is beyond omega)?

Yeah, I know he probably won't respond, lol.

The fight with the Council of Reeds was in issue 572. The first time the Celestials say that Franklin is beyond omega classification is in FF #13.

nice, thanks

Franklin loses this one. to much diversitivity for him to handle his power would go into overload

I don`t see how Franklin wins this.

Adult Franklin Richards? You mean the guy who made Galactus his herald with relative ease, thrashes Celestials, and lives to see the next universe?

@neongamewave: Then your probably blind.....it's okay Ray Charles was a great man

@uberhikari:

The M'Kraan crystal leaving Darwin alone can EASILY be attributed to his adaption powers. And considering that Prof X went crazy and looked like he got stomped by Wolverine and Darwin was completely fine, I'd say he adapted.

Now BFR'ing Celestials has literally NOTHING to do with hurting Skyfathers. Just BFR'ing them. And Franklin didn't really depower either Blackbolt or his Grandfather any more than Jean Grey or (insert person with a shield) has. Blackbolt was containment+shielding, the Grandfather was something even Jean Grey has done, stopping the mind from using powers. Not what I meant when I said depower. Also I was kinda talking abou Kid Franklin for most of this since I have no idea what Adult Franklin has done (until now apparently).

The fight with the Celestials was subpar and even Thor has done more to Celestials. And if they're losing to Galactus that easily, they're pretty weak Celestials.

Franklin defeating Mephisto is cool but Mephisto's stated that he's let people beat him before and weaker people like Surfer and Thor have done it, so it's not exactly Skyfather level. Plus Franklin got caught in the first place.

And yes I'm using Doom kidnapping child Franklin because AFAIK that's the only time Franklin and his powers encountered energy absorption. And they didn't fare well.

As for copying, nothing even hints that Franklin can't be copied or adapted to. If Darwin can adapt to not having a body, the M'Kraan Crystal, and Hela aka a Death Touch itself (instant death), he can adapt to Franklin.

So it still stands that he's never hurt a skyfather level being offensively and most Skyfathers can teleport so BFR'ing them won't work. Still no counters to straight up being copied or to X-Gene suppresors or Nullifiers or energy absorbers. Franklin loses.

And again, this is without using people like Legion who should just plain out stomp him 1v1.

@darkraiden: Good job champ. Nothing you wrote made sense, but at least you didn't take your whooping lying down, lol.

Franklin still loses

He could make Odin Zeus and Galactus his heralds if really wants to lol

Galactus alone would wreck the team pretty badly

Franklin could just warp reality so that they would all lose their powers when they get ready to fight him

The F4 are in this, so Mama and Papa spank bad Franklin. And send him to his room.

Franklin would win this

Sooooo.. All characters to ever be part of these teams?

Frank vs. Legion, Scarlet Witch (all she needs to boost her to reality warping is a power source), Void, Odin, Zeus, Bor (and other featless Skyfathers), Jean Grey with Phoenix, Dr. Strange, Captain Universes, Vulcan, all Omega telepaths. Yeah I think that is too much for him.

Current versions he stomp though.

@lord44: Lol.

It depends of the version(s) of the characters who are allowed the most powerful should win the team, the weaker FR should win

@icecold14

....... Don't know if you've looked at this but I was about to say Frank wins (well I guess versions and incarnations used depend as well) till I saw this..

Actually Team stomps. Mom and pa tell him he's a very naughty boy for attempting to blink them out of existence.

@saint_sophie: LOL no i havent seen this at all :o i havent been on CV all day lol but your right Team should win or i can go far and even say they stomp

Skyfahters solos (i mean the team)

Franklin