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#1 Edited by Kangconquers (1066 posts) - - Show Bio

Adult Franklin Richards vs. Every Skyfather, Every X-Men, SHIELD w/ full resources, Every Avenger, The F4, The Defenders, and the Guardians of the Galaxy.

No prep.

Anyone who says Iceman solos gets punched in the throat.

#2 Posted by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

Franklin loses .... because iceman solos.... jk but he does lose

#3 Posted by Lord44 (1440 posts) - - Show Bio

Franklin Stomps.

#4 Posted by JwwProd (10322 posts) - - Show Bio

Is Chaos War Hercules in this battle?

#5 Posted by Lord44 (1440 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod said:

Is Chaos War Hercules in this battle?

I hope no! It will be a massive mismatch!!

#6 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

If we're going by the most recent members of every team, Franklin wins. He depowers everybody and then projects an empathic field to make them not want to fight.

#7 Posted by JwwProd (10322 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari said:

If we're going by the most recent members of every team, Franklin wins. He depowers everybody and then projects an empathic field to make them not want to fight.

Unless Chaos War Hercules is in this battle.

#8 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod: Chaos War Hercules is not in this battle, lol.

#9 Posted by Night4345 (5548 posts) - - Show Bio

I think team could win. Are the teammates at their best? Like Phoenix Jean and Rachel, Sorcerer Supreme Dr. Strange, HoM Scarlet Witch, Gem'd Adam Warlock and Moondragon, etc. There's too much even for Franklin.

#10 Posted by ssj_god (6615 posts) - - Show Bio

every x-men means jean with white phoenix of the crown too right? with other phoenix avatars, jean can defeat franklin quite easily

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#11 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

People are trying desperately to make this into a fight that Franklin doesn't win. Not only are people trying to include all members of the team ever, which the OP doesn't specify, but not they're trying to include the best versions of the characters on the team, which the OP also doesn't specify.

#12 Edited by ssj_god (6615 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari:

well... from my part.. i'm clear .. jean with phoenix is a part of x-men .. but obviously not the regular rooster.. and OP hasn't specified the rooster.. OP has particularly specified 'every x-men', so white phoenix of crown jean comes under that specification

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#13 Posted by beautifulrevery (1517 posts) - - Show Bio

Hahahahah Franklin stomps hard. There's no one on any of the teams in his league, unless Legion(he was an X-man right) goes reality warper personality and even then he could be taken out prior to that even happening.

#14 Posted by Tyger (921 posts) - - Show Bio

Which 'adult Franklin Richards'?

Psi-Lord wasn't really all that much.

Future Franklin sitting at the end of time with Galactus was a bit more.

If @kangconquers is trying to understand Franklin better, think Mr Myx with the personality of a kid out of Leave It to Beaver.

#15 Edited by DarkRaiden (8017 posts) - - Show Bio

Franklin could actually lose tbh. All they need is a mutant depower person/serum or w/e and distract him long enough to get it in his presence. Plus people like Darwin, Hope Summers, Synch, Multiple Man (to help Hope) should make this impossible for him to win.

#16 Posted by Shamo (548 posts) - - Show Bio

Chaos war hercules solos

#17 Posted by antiwhipped (219 posts) - - Show Bio

Scarlet Witch and Legion grouped with Longshot and Domino is all you need.

#18 Posted by ManInTheMountain (720 posts) - - Show Bio

CW Herc solos

HoM Scarlet Witch solos

White Phoenix of the Crown solos

Iceman solos

#19 Posted by DarkRaiden (8017 posts) - - Show Bio

Scarlet Witch and Legion grouped with Longshot and Domino is all you need.

Woah, let's not get too ahead of ourselves. if Legion is allowed (he's dead now IIRC) then he solos. He's like a better, stronger Franklin.

#20 Posted by Lord44 (1440 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol... CW Hercules and HoM Scaret Witch are powered up, they don't count. Same for WPotC, this isn't her standard incarnation. But ofc if Legion is allowed than he solos.. otherwise none stand a chance against Franklin the cowboy.

#21 Posted by Jmarshmallow (10084 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm thinking Franklin.

As long as Iceman doesn't decide to solo.

Jmarshmallow

#22 Posted by Egemensson (261 posts) - - Show Bio

franklin wins, assuming phoenix jean grey and/or rune king thor not included instead of base level versions..

#23 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssj_god said:

@uberhikari:

well... from my part.. i'm clear .. jean with phoenix is a part of x-men .. but obviously not the regular rooster.. and OP hasn't specified the rooster.. OP has particularly specified 'every x-men', so white phoenix of crown jean comes under that specification

You're just playing word games. If a thread is Jean Grey vs Storm, do you get to say, "Well, technically, the phoenix is Jean Grey, so..." No. Furthermore, you're contradicting yourself because there's not one version of the phoenix. Why not green phoenix? Or dark phoenix? Why white crown phoenix? It's always the case that if the OP doesn't specify then you use the the standard unamped, most recent canon version of the character.

Franklin could actually lose tbh. All they need is a mutant depower person/serum or w/e and distract him long enough to get it in his presence. Plus people like Darwin, Hope Summers, Synch, Multiple Man (to help Hope) should make this impossible for him to win.

There is no prep time. Plus, it's going to be hard to argue that the guy who subconsciously deflected attacks from Celestials is going to be taken out with mutant "depower serum." And nobody you named can do anything to harm Franklin. You gonna argue that Multiple Man can beat a multiversal reality warper? No.

I'm thinking Franklin.

As long as Iceman doesn't decide to solo.

Jmarshmallow

I hope you're joking about Iceman...

#24 Posted by DarkRaiden (8017 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssj_god said:

@uberhikari:

well... from my part.. i'm clear .. jean with phoenix is a part of x-men .. but obviously not the regular rooster.. and OP hasn't specified the rooster.. OP has particularly specified 'every x-men', so white phoenix of crown jean comes under that specification

You're just playing word games. If a thread is Jean Grey vs Storm, do you get to say, "Well, technically, the phoenix is Jean Grey, so..." No. Furthermore, you're contradicting yourself because there's not one version of the phoenix. Why not green phoenix? Or dark phoenix? Why white crown phoenix? It's always the case that if the OP doesn't specify then you use the the standard unamped, most recent canon version of the character.

@darkraiden said:

Franklin could actually lose tbh. All they need is a mutant depower person/serum or w/e and distract him long enough to get it in his presence. Plus people like Darwin, Hope Summers, Synch, Multiple Man (to help Hope) should make this impossible for him to win.

There is no prep time. Plus, it's going to be hard to argue that the guy who subconsciously deflected attacks from Celestials is going to be taken out with mutant "depower serum." And nobody you named can do anything to harm Franklin. You gonna argue that Multiple Man can beat a multiversal reality warper? No.

@jmarshmallow said:

I'm thinking Franklin.

As long as Iceman doesn't decide to solo.

Jmarshmallow

I hope you're joking about Iceman...

Nope. You gotta look at the combination. Synch has the powers of everyone in his vicinity, as does Hope if they're mutants.

Multiple Man+ Franklin+Darwin = Franklin fighting himself+clones+an ever adapting opponent. Then add on everyone else fighting and Franklin can't really win. Also Leech has been proven to weaken Franklin and there are more like him. Oh and Shield with all tech and even just Black Panther period should have X-gene nullifiers on them.

#25 Edited by DatSwampertAzz (899 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssj_god said:

@uberhikari:

well... from my part.. i'm clear .. jean with phoenix is a part of x-men .. but obviously not the regular rooster.. and OP hasn't specified the rooster.. OP has particularly specified 'every x-men', so white phoenix of crown jean comes under that specification

doesnt rules state its current versions of teams correct...

#26 Posted by Jmarshmallow (10084 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: Totally joking lol.

Iceman gets stomped by Franklin blinking.

Jmarshmallow

#27 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

Nope. You gotta look at the combination. Synch has the powers of everyone in his vicinity, as does Hope if they're mutants.

Since when does Synch have the ability to copy the powers of a multiversal reality warper? And even if he did, do you think that Franklin would just stand there and let Synch do that to him? Same thing goes for Hope.

Multiple Man+ Franklin+Darwin = Franklin fighting himself+clones+an ever adapting opponent.

It doesn't matter how much Darwin can adapt...he can't adapt to reality warping.

Then add on everyone else fighting and Franklin can't really win.

You say this as if there's a cumulative affect to having a larger number of opponents. 1 x 0 = 0; 10 x 0 = 0; 100,000 x 0 = 0. It doesn't matter how many other people would be fighting Franklin at the same time; they mean less than nothing to him.

Also Leech has been proven to weaken Franklin and there are more like him. Oh and Shield with all tech and even just Black Panther period should have X-gene nullifiers on them.

Adult Franklin? I don't think so. At the point that you're arguing that Black Panther can defeat Adult Franklin, I think that pretty much sums up how implausible this scenario is.

Franklin has shown multiple times that if he doesn't want something to affect him, even subconsciously, then it won't affect him. Celestials trying to blast him? The blasts get turned into flowers. Celestials try to TP him? They get kicked out of his mind. Franklin doesn't want Black Bolt's screams to affect him? He builds a box in which Black Bolt can talk. He doesn't want his grandfather--iirc it was his grandfather, right?--to time travel? Then he removes that ability from dear old gramps. He doesn't want Mephisto to have his soul in Mephisto's own realm? Then Mephisto can't take his soul. Like I said, when the fight starts an in-character Franklin depowers everybody and projects an emphatic field that makes them not want to fight.

#28 Edited by DarkRaiden (8017 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

Nope. You gotta look at the combination. Synch has the powers of everyone in his vicinity, as does Hope if they're mutants.

Since when does Synch have the ability to copy the powers of a multiversal reality warper? And even if he did, do you think that Franklin would just stand there and let Synch do that to him? Same thing goes for Hope.

Multiple Man+ Franklin+Darwin = Franklin fighting himself+clones+an ever adapting opponent.

It doesn't matter how much Darwin can adapt...he can't adapt to reality warping.

Then add on everyone else fighting and Franklin can't really win.

You say this as if there's a cumulative affect to having a larger number of opponents. 1 x 0 = 0; 10 x 0 = 0; 100,000 x 0 = 0. It doesn't matter how many other people would be fighting Franklin at the same time; they mean less than nothing to him.

Also Leech has been proven to weaken Franklin and there are more like him. Oh and Shield with all tech and even just Black Panther period should have X-gene nullifiers on them.

Adult Franklin? I don't think so. At the point that you're arguing that Black Panther can defeat Adult Franklin, I think that pretty much sums up how implausible this scenario is.

Franklin has shown multiple times that if he doesn't want something to affect him, even subconsciously, then it won't affect him. Celestials trying to blast him? The blasts get turned into flowers. Celestials try to TP him? They get kicked out of his mind. Franklin doesn't want Black Bolt's screams to affect him? He builds a box in which Black Bolt can talk. He doesn't want his grandfather--iirc it was his grandfather, right?--to time travel? Then he removes that ability from dear old gramps. He doesn't want Mephisto to have his soul in Mephisto's own realm? Then Mephisto can't take his soul. Like I said, when the fight starts an in-character Franklin depowers everybody and projects an emphatic field that makes them not want to fight.

Franklinc wouldn't know to do anything nor would he do anything to stop them from copying his powers. He's not a cold blooded killer. Synch and Hope only need moments to get his powers and then he loses. And given that they have a range and that there are Skyfathers in this fight, Franklin won't be focusing on them until it's too late. And nothing you described Franklin did was above what Darwin has adapted to. He's adapted to the M'Kraan Crystal which is >>everything you named.

Black Panther can defeat Adult Franklin Richards? Nope. But his serum given to some Skyfathers and other people on Franklin's level can. You're not grasping the number here. And numbers DO matter because it's not 0. It's a value, and in this case at least 2 of the values are at least 1. So it's 1 vs 2. Then the 2 multiply say 100 times. Now it's 1 vs. 200. Even worse, you add on Skyfathers (like 50 of them) all who are at least .3 to Franklin's power, add THOSE on to Hope and Synch as well as themselves, and then add on Darwin's adaptation and Franklin really can't win.

#29 Posted by dondave (38809 posts) - - Show Bio

Franklin

#30 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

Franklinc wouldn't know to do anything nor would he do anything to stop them from copying his powers.

Why are you not reading what I write? Franklin doesn't need to know anything because his powers have been shown to operate even subconsciously to protect him when he doesn't want to be harmed.

He's not a cold blooded killer.

Again, why are you not reading what I wrote? When did I ever say anything about Franklin killing anybody? I didn't.

Synch and Hope only need moments to get his powers and then he loses.

Again, you must really not like reading. First, they won't even have the moments they need to do anything. Second, even if they did have the time, when have the shown the ability to harm or duplicate the powers of multiversal reality warpers? Never.

And given that they have a range and that there are Skyfathers in this fight, Franklin won't be focusing on them until it's too late.

What does range have to do with anything? If Franklin doesn't want to be harmed he won't be harmed. And, again, skyfathers mean less than nothing to Franklin. Also, why would Franklin need to focus on anybody? For the last time, Franklin's powers have even shown to be able to protect him subconsciously. His focus is not needed. Especially since he can just depower everybody simultaneously.

And nothing you described Franklin did was above what Darwin has adapted to. He's adapted to the M'Kraan Crystal which is >>everything you named.

If you think Darwin can adapt to multiversal reality warpers then set up the match, and we'll see how many people agree with you...

Black Panther can defeat Adult Franklin Richards? Nope. But his serum given to some Skyfathers and other people on Franklin's level can.

The OP specifically says no prep. Black Panther is not handing out the serum to anybody. But even if he did it wouldn't matter, because, again, if Franklin doesn't want to be harmed then he won't be. It's as simple as that.

You're not grasping the number here. And numbers DO matter because it's not 0. It's a value, and in this case at least 2 of the values are at least 1. So it's 1 vs 2. Then the 2 multiply say 100 times. Now it's 1 vs. 200. Even worse, you add on Skyfathers (like 50 of them) all who are at least .3 to Franklin's power, add THOSE on to Hope and Synch as well as themselves, and then add on Darwin's adaptation and Franklin really can't win.

This doesn't make any sense at all.

No skyfather is equivalent to 1/3rd of Franklin's power. You clearly just made this up. Odin is one of the strongest if not the strongest skyfather. Odin had 1,000 years of prep, the destroyer armor, and the spirits of Asgard and he still got stomped by the Celestials. Meanwhile kid Franklin was kicking Celestials out of his mind and turning their beams into flowers...subconsciously. Hell, Odin in the destroyer armor gets knocked out by Galactus (who has always been above Odin) and Galactus is Franklin's herald. Odin could not harm a single strand of hair on Franklin's head. So it doesn't matter if you have 1 skyfather or 100 or 1,000. None of them can harm Franklin. And the same goes for everybody else in the fight. They are non-entities compared to Franklin.

#31 Posted by homicidalmaniac (8187 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless the Team have Legion,HOM Wanda,CW Hercules,IG Captain America,Classic Dr.Strange,Rune King Thor,and others,they are not winning.

#32 Posted by JusticeWay (110 posts) - - Show Bio

Adult Franklin Richards stomps them all . You seem to not know him , he's been creating pocket universes in his first years for fun , imagine what he can do now as an adult , I think he'll create a universe , put all of them in it , then he'll go get a hotdog and watch them trying to get out of it .

#33 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

Wiccan?

#34 Edited by XiiX (9154 posts) - - Show Bio

Franklin Richards wins.

But he still sucks.

I fukin hate those wunderkind characters.

Online
#35 Posted by Hyperlight (6334 posts) - - Show Bio

the only people that have a chance are legion or jean as WPOTC

#36 Posted by blh726 (420 posts) - - Show Bio

Adult Franklin Richards stomps them all . You seem to not know him , he's been creating pocket universes in his first years for fun , imagine what he can do now as an adult , I think he'll create a universe , put all of them in it , then he'll go get a hotdog and watch them trying to get out of it .

He'll turn them into rats and then put them in a universe full of hawks XD

#37 Posted by DarkRaiden (8017 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

Franklinc wouldn't know to do anything nor would he do anything to stop them from copying his powers.

Why are you not reading what I write? Franklin doesn't need to know anything because his powers have been shown to operate even subconsciously to protect him when he doesn't want to be harmed.

He's not a cold blooded killer.

Again, why are you not reading what I wrote? When did I ever say anything about Franklin killing anybody? I didn't.

Synch and Hope only need moments to get his powers and then he loses.

Again, you must really not like reading. First, they won't even have the moments they need to do anything. Second, even if they did have the time, when have the shown the ability to harm or duplicate the powers of multiversal reality warpers? Never.

And given that they have a range and that there are Skyfathers in this fight, Franklin won't be focusing on them until it's too late.

What does range have to do with anything? If Franklin doesn't want to be harmed he won't be harmed. And, again, skyfathers mean less than nothing to Franklin. Also, why would Franklin need to focus on anybody? For the last time, Franklin's powers have even shown to be able to protect him subconsciously. His focus is not needed. Especially since he can just depower everybody simultaneously.

And nothing you described Franklin did was above what Darwin has adapted to. He's adapted to the M'Kraan Crystal which is >>everything you named.

If you think Darwin can adapt to multiversal reality warpers then set up the match, and we'll see how many people agree with you...

Black Panther can defeat Adult Franklin Richards? Nope. But his serum given to some Skyfathers and other people on Franklin's level can.

The OP specifically says no prep. Black Panther is not handing out the serum to anybody. But even if he did it wouldn't matter, because, again, if Franklin doesn't want to be harmed then he won't be. It's as simple as that.

You're not grasping the number here. And numbers DO matter because it's not 0. It's a value, and in this case at least 2 of the values are at least 1. So it's 1 vs 2. Then the 2 multiply say 100 times. Now it's 1 vs. 200. Even worse, you add on Skyfathers (like 50 of them) all who are at least .3 to Franklin's power, add THOSE on to Hope and Synch as well as themselves, and then add on Darwin's adaptation and Franklin really can't win.

This doesn't make any sense at all.

No skyfather is equivalent to 1/3rd of Franklin's power. You clearly just made this up. Odin is one of the strongest if not the strongest skyfather. Odin had 1,000 years of prep, the destroyer armor, and the spirits of Asgard and he still got stomped by the Celestials. Meanwhile kid Franklin was kicking Celestials out of his mind and turning their beams into flowers...subconsciously. Hell, Odin in the destroyer armor gets knocked out by Galactus (who has always been above Odin) and Galactus is Franklin's herald. Odin could not harm a single strand of hair on Franklin's head. So it doesn't matter if you have 1 skyfather or 100 or 1,000. None of them can harm Franklin. And the same goes for everybody else in the fight. They are non-entities compared to Franklin.

You literally said Franklin wouldn't let Synch or Hope copy his powers. That means that he has to actively do something to them, and with their supporting cast, he'd have to kill them to keep them out.

Hope has had the powers of Phoenix so.....and both of their powers are to copy, don't see why they couldn't copy. Range simply allows them to copy him without him seeing it.

Franklin's subconsciously depowering everyone is a 1 in 100 maybe 1 in one million chance. Especially with the likes of Leech and other mutant inhibitors around. Then again, Hope, Synch, Rogue, etc. with those people's powers.

Darwin adapted to the M'Kraan crystal which is the nexus of reality. So yeah he should be able to adapt to a multiversal reality warper.

And no, Franklin's nowhere near that good. He's been affected before, like by leech. It's why they hung together.

And IIRC Franklin needed child Franklin's powers just to revive Galactus who was his herald. And Odin only got KO'd by Galactus (ko'd him too) outside of the destroyer armor IIRC. And I forgot, Doom alone has solo'd Franklin and his armor can absorb his energy and leave him helpless, sot here's another person (along with all the other energy absorbers) who can take out Franklin.

No everyone's not a non-entity. Franklin can't even hurt Skyfathers from what we've seen, only defend from them. And given that there are people here specifically tailor made to take out mutants, he pretty much can't win.

#38 Posted by Thedailybagel (4878 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless it's chaos war Hercules then Franklin wins, easily. Actually you know what? He kills all of them, then brings them back to life and kills them again, then erases their molecules and eats their clothes.... Yeh, that's what he does.

#39 Posted by Thedailybagel (4878 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: I'm not here for an argument but franklin can take out skyfathers... Pretty easily IMO.

#40 Posted by DarkRaiden (8017 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: I'm not here for an argument but franklin can take out skyfathers... Pretty easily IMO.

When has he though? I don't remember much offense from him.

#41 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: So according to you:

1. Darwin can beat Adult Franklin Richards.

2. Franklin has less than a 1% chance of depowering everybody, which is based on numbers you made up at random.

3. Odin KO'd Galactus. (This never happened + he was wearing the Destroyer Armor)

4. Dr. Doom can solo Adult Franklin Richards.

5. Franklin Richards can't hurt skyfathers.

6. And on top of all this you accuse of saying things I never said. Even though I told you that Franklin's powers operate subconsciously so if he doesn't want to be harmed he simply won't be, which means there's nothing Synch or Hope Summers can do.

My response: ROTFLMMFAO!!!

#42 Posted by myerlanski (1286 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude...Franklin Richards stomps...

#43 Posted by X_insignia1 (1394 posts) - - Show Bio

Franklin wins, the kid's destined to become an abstract/force of the universe, and usher in the new one as the old one dies (confirmed)

#44 Posted by vintage_spiderman (1871 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is franklin SOOOOO BROKEN POWERWISE

#45 Posted by sophia89 (5010 posts) - - Show Bio

Adult Franklin Richards vs. Every Skyfather, Every X-Men, SHIELD w/ full resources, Every Avenger, The F4, The Defenders, and the Guardians of the Galaxy.

No prep.

Anyone who says Iceman solos gets punched in the throat.

the f4 solo.

Franklin will get grounded :D

#46 Posted by sophia89 (5010 posts) - - Show Bio

seriously though team wins.

#47 Edited by lol (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless the Team have Legion,HOM Wanda,CW Hercules,IG Captain America,Classic Dr.Strange,Rune King Thor,and others,they are not winning.

This team would stomp Franklin

@xiix said:

Franklin Richards wins.

But he still sucks.

I fukin hate those wunderkind characters.

Here is other

#48 Posted by lol (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

And team still wins IMO

#49 Posted by DarkRaiden (8017 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: So according to you:

1. Darwin can beat Adult Franklin Richards.

2. Franklin has less than a 1% chance of depowering everybody, which is based on numbers you made up at random.

3. Odin KO'd Galactus. (This never happened + he was wearing the Destroyer Armor)

4. Dr. Doom can solo Adult Franklin Richards.

5. Franklin Richards can't hurt skyfathers.

6. And on top of all this you accuse of saying things I never said. Even though I told you that Franklin's powers operate subconsciously so if he doesn't want to be harmed he simply won't be, which means there's nothing Synch or Hope Summers can do.

My response: ROTFLMMFAO!!!

Nope.

1. Darwin can SURVIVE Adult Franklin Richards

2. He's never consciously depowered anyone. Only subconsciously and even then, not really. So yeah.

3. Nah he KO'd Galactus, his body died, and THEN his spirit inhabited the Destroyer and Galactus ran. And yeah Galactus was KO'd for a quick moment

4. Yeah. His armor has already drained Franklin. Unless you have a counter

5. Franklin never HAS hurt Skyfathers and Skyfather level people.

6. His powers operate subconsciously, but he still has to be in danger or want something or be on the defensive. His power is not going to reach far through hundreds of skyfathers, Scarlet Witch, Doom, etc. and aim right for Synch and Hope because they're COPYING him (which isn't even danger for him until they try and use it). Especially not with people like Leech there who have ALREADY been shown to weaken Franklin.

Your response is only you conceding as you have no argument clearly.

#50 Posted by InjusticeForAll (509 posts) - - Show Bio

what are adult franklin feats? most of what i've heard is made up.