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#1 Posted by WillPayton (9047 posts) - - Show Bio

vs

Adult Franklin Richards vs JLA Uber Team:

Alan Scott (w/ full Starheart), Captain Atom, Dr Fate (Nabu), Martian Manhunter, Superman

Both sides are bloodlusted. Both sides also start with defenses in place. Battle in space, starting 100m apart. No BFR, must win by death or permanent incapacitation.

#2 Posted by Jeronimo (687 posts) - - Show Bio

FR STOMP

#3 Posted by WillPayton (9047 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jeronimo said:

FR STOMP

How's it a stomp? Alan and Fate are nearly at Galactus power levels. Also, bloodlusted Atom and Martian are incredibly powerful, as well as Superman. Individually maybe none has a chance, but together it's a very powerful team.

#4 Posted by ThanoStomp (779 posts) - - Show Bio

FR seemed to scare and deal with Celestials fairly easily. So....

#5 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton said:

@Jeronimo said:

FR STOMP

How's it a stomp? Alan and Fate are nearly at Galactus power levels. Also, bloodlusted Atom and Martian are incredibly powerful, as well as Superman. Individually maybe none has a chance, but together it's a very powerful team.

The only reason why Martian Manhunter is really strong is due to T/P. Without it he's Superman level. He's not even that powerful, either is Superman... There herald level....

#6 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jeronimo said:

FR STOMP

#7 Posted by WillPayton (9047 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

@WillPayton said:

@Jeronimo said:

FR STOMP

How's it a stomp? Alan and Fate are nearly at Galactus power levels. Also, bloodlusted Atom and Martian are incredibly powerful, as well as Superman. Individually maybe none has a chance, but together it's a very powerful team.

The only reason why Martian Manhunter is really strong is due to T/P. Without it he's Superman level. He's not even that powerful, either is Superman... There herald level....

If by "strong" you mean "powerful" then MMH has other powers that make him more powerful than Superman, like invisibility, intangibility, shape shifting, density control... Also, when bloodlusted and without morals he's basically Fernus.

In any case, the major threats on the team are Alan and Fate.

#8 Posted by Simon_the_digger (2817 posts) - - Show Bio

Team

#9 Posted by SirMethos (1304 posts) - - Show Bio

Franklin stomps.

Since the OP specified that both sides already have their defenses up, the JLA team can't blitz him. And they have no defense against his Reality Warping.

#10 Posted by 8bitGangsta (392 posts) - - Show Bio

FR but not stomp

#11 Posted by Gritterr (490 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes MM and Atom are worthless in this fight. Does anyone have any scans of Nabu Fate? Franklin fought 3 Celestials and showed no signs of harm. I need convincing this team could even harm him.

#12 Posted by XiiX (7163 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Franklin in a tough bout.

#13 Posted by YoungJustice (6648 posts) - - Show Bio

Atom solos....".

#14 Posted by WillPayton (9047 posts) - - Show Bio

@SirMethos said:

Franklin stomps.

Since the OP specified that both sides already have their defenses up, the JLA team can't blitz him. And they have no defense against his Reality Warping.

Fate and Alan Scott are both reality warpers.

#15 Posted by Gritterr (490 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton said:

@SirMethos said:

Franklin stomps.

Since the OP specified that both sides already have their defenses up, the JLA team can't blitz him. And they have no defense against his Reality Warping.

Fate and Alan Scott are both reality warpers.

Scans please

#16 Posted by WillPayton (9047 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gritterr said:

@WillPayton said:

@SirMethos said:

Franklin stomps.

Since the OP specified that both sides already have their defenses up, the JLA team can't blitz him. And they have no defense against his Reality Warping.

Fate and Alan Scott are both reality warpers.

Scans please

I'd post some if I have em, but you can see in the CV wiki pages that "Reality Manipulation" is in their power sets...

http://www.comicvine.com/alan-scott/29-12663/

http://www.comicvine.com/doctor-fate/29-5898/

#17 Posted by Gritterr (490 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton said:

@Gritterr said:

@WillPayton said:

@SirMethos said:

Franklin stomps.

Since the OP specified that both sides already have their defenses up, the JLA team can't blitz him. And they have no defense against his Reality Warping.

Fate and Alan Scott are both reality warpers.

Scans please

I'd post some if I have em, but you can see in the CV wiki pages that "Reality Manipulation" is in their power sets...

http://www.comicvine.com/alan-scott/29-12663/

http://www.comicvine.com/doctor-fate/29-5898/

Power sets are fine and dandy but if they don't use those powers often or use them in a way that could harm Franklin then they are irrelevant for the context of this battle

#18 Posted by SirMethos (1304 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton: Yea, the only problem with that(@the links) is that those 'power listings' are not particularly reliable.

Other characters that also have "Reality Manipulation" in their power listings like that are Dr. Manhattan, Magik and Access neither of which are actually reality warpers -.-

#19 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton said:

@jeanroygrant said:

@WillPayton said:

@Jeronimo said:

FR STOMP

How's it a stomp? Alan and Fate are nearly at Galactus power levels. Also, bloodlusted Atom and Martian are incredibly powerful, as well as Superman. Individually maybe none has a chance, but together it's a very powerful team.

The only reason why Martian Manhunter is really strong is due to T/P. Without it he's Superman level. He's not even that powerful, either is Superman... There herald level....

If by "strong" you mean "powerful" then MMH has other powers that make him more powerful than Superman, like invisibility, intangibility, shape shifting, density control... Also, when bloodlusted and without morals he's basically Fernus.

In any case, the major threats on the team are Alan and Fate.

That too.

#20 Posted by WillPayton (9047 posts) - - Show Bio

@SirMethos said:

@WillPayton: Yea, the only problem with that(@the links) is that those 'power listings' are not particularly reliable.

Other characters that also have "Reality Manipulation" in their power listings like that are Dr. Manhattan, Magik and Access neither of which are actually reality warpers -.-

I'm not familiar with Magik or Access, but Manhattan is not a reality warper, he's an energy/matter manipulator. Big difference.

Dr Fate is a high-level magic user. This is the most powerful version of Fate. Alan has the power of the Starheart, which is the sum of all the mystical energy in the universe at the time the Guardians gathered it all and put it into the object, which eventually gained sentience.

#21 Posted by SirMethos (1304 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton: The point is, that the fact that they have "reality manipulation" in their power listings. Is hardly proof that they are reality warpers.

#22 Posted by WillPayton (9047 posts) - - Show Bio

@SirMethos said:

@WillPayton: The point is, that the fact that they have "reality manipulation" in their power listings. Is hardly proof that they are reality warpers.

Unfortunately I dont have any scans for this. Maybe has some, specifically of Alan and Fate doing reality warping.

In any case, both of their power sets are derived from magic, which is by definition reality warping.

#23 Posted by SirMethos (1304 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton: Uh, not so much. Magic is not, "by definition Reality Warping."

Reality Warping covers a huge list of various abilities. And while Magic does generally cover a lot of the same things. They are far from synonymous.

That would be like saying that Captain Atom is a reality warper. Or Hal Jordan(aka. potentially any green lantern). Which is just plain not true.

#24 Posted by Onemoreposter (3867 posts) - - Show Bio

Star Heart Alan and Fate are both reality warpers. Superman (and probably MM) can move faster than richards can think. There rest of the JLA are just icing.

I get Frank is suppose to be really powerful. I've read some of the arcs. He loses here though, 9/10.

#25 Edited by Gritterr (490 posts) - - Show Bio

@Onemoreposter said:

Star Heart Alan and Fate are both reality warpers. Superman (and probably MM) can move faster than richards can think. There rest of the JLA are just icing.

I get Frank is suppose to be really powerful. I've read some of the arcs. He loses here though, 9/10.

You honestly believe that Supes or MM can hurt Franklin? And by extension do you think that they( Supes and MM) could move faster than Galactus could percieve. Do you think they could Harm Galactus?

#26 Posted by WillPayton (9047 posts) - - Show Bio

@SirMethos said:

@WillPayton: Uh, not so much. Magic is not, "by definition Reality Warping."

Reality Warping covers a huge list of various abilities. And while Magic does generally cover a lot of the same things. They are far from synonymous.

That would be like saying that Captain Atom is a reality warper. Or Hal Jordan(aka. potentially any green lantern). Which is just plain not true.

I know that magic and reality warping are subtly different, but the difference is mainly in how they're used... i.e. magic might require spells, or magical objects, but also maybe not. In their effects, however, I dont see a difference. Both just allow you to do things that arent allowed under normal physics. Reality Warping is just a distilled version of magic.

Not the same at all for Atom or GLs... they all operate entirely within the known laws of physics. Magic and reality warping can do things with no valid physical explanation whatsoever.

#27 Posted by WillPayton (9047 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gritterr said:

@Onemoreposter said:

Star Heart Alan and Fate are both reality warpers. Superman (and probably MM) can move faster than richards can think. There rest of the JLA are just icing.

I get Frank is suppose to be really powerful. I've read some of the arcs. He loses here though, 9/10.

You honestly believe that Supes or MM can hurt Franklin? And by extension do you think that they( Supes and MM) could move faster than Galactus could percieve. Do you think they could Harm Galactus?

What's Franklin's resistance to TP like?

Even if MMH, Superman, and Atom cant hurt Richards, they can potentially distract him for just a small amount of time, long enough for Alan and Fate to drop some serious magic on him. I just dont see how even Franklin Richards can stop the combined magic of Nabu ans Starheart.

#28 Posted by Onemoreposter (3867 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gritterr said:

@Onemoreposter said:

Star Heart Alan and Fate are both reality warpers. Superman (and probably MM) can move faster than richards can think. There rest of the JLA are just icing.

I get Frank is suppose to be really powerful. I've read some of the arcs. He loses here though, 9/10.

You honestly believe that Supes or MM can hurt Franklin? And by extension do you think that they( Supes and MM) could move faster than Galactus could percieve. Do you think they could Harm Galactus?

Yep. Franklin can warp the Fabric of the universe, but he's as susceptible to a fist through the skull he didn't see coming as anyone else.

#29 Posted by Gritterr (490 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton said:

@Gritterr said:

@Onemoreposter said:

Star Heart Alan and Fate are both reality warpers. Superman (and probably MM) can move faster than richards can think. There rest of the JLA are just icing.

I get Frank is suppose to be really powerful. I've read some of the arcs. He loses here though, 9/10.

You honestly believe that Supes or MM can hurt Franklin? And by extension do you think that they( Supes and MM) could move faster than Galactus could percieve. Do you think they could Harm Galactus?

What's Franklin's resistance to TP like?

Even if MMH, Superman, and Atom cant hurt Richards, they can potentially distract him for just a small amount of time, long enough for Alan and Fate to drop some serious magic on him. I just dont see how even Franklin Richards can stop the combined magic of Nabu ans Starheart.

Child Franklin was able to easily shrug off a mind rape attempt from 3 celestials at the same time. I don't doubt that it might be a good fight between full starheart and nabu (Though I would love to see scans proving this) I just think its almost comical to think Supes MM and Atom would even cause Franklin to break a sweat. Somebody out there PLEASE Post Dr Fate Scans!!!!!!

#30 Posted by Gritterr (490 posts) - - Show Bio

@Onemoreposter said:

@Gritterr said:

@Onemoreposter said:

Star Heart Alan and Fate are both reality warpers. Superman (and probably MM) can move faster than richards can think. There rest of the JLA are just icing.

I get Frank is suppose to be really powerful. I've read some of the arcs. He loses here though, 9/10.

You honestly believe that Supes or MM can hurt Franklin? And by extension do you think that they( Supes and MM) could move faster than Galactus could percieve. Do you think they could Harm Galactus?

Yep. Franklin can warp the Fabric of the universe, but he's as susceptible to a fist through the skull he didn't see coming as anyone else.

that actually may not be true everything we have seen of Franklin has shown that he has to actively NOT use his powers in order to be harmed. I don't believe he has to think to activate his powers in a defensive manner

#31 Posted by Killemall (18182 posts) - - Show Bio

@SirMethos said:

@WillPayton: Yea, the only problem with that(@the links) is that those 'power listings' are not particularly reliable.

Other characters that also have "Reality Manipulation" in their power listings like that are Dr. Manhattan, Magik and Access neither of which are actually reality warpers -.-

But Alan Scott (well techinically Starheart) does have reality warping , he has shown that during Underworld Unleased, he has shown reality warping during Green Lantern; Heart Of Darkness as well.

#32 Posted by X_insignia1 (1360 posts) - - Show Bio

Franklin pwns and in regard to Martian Man hunter and Supes, Franklin simply does to Clark and Jon what Franklin did to black bolt NOT allowing him to harm him( i would never allow your voice to hurt me) and simply his voice couldn't harm him, and to add Franklin could deny Superman's cells solar absorption, similar to how he denied his own grandfather access to his own time traveling ability, Franklin takes this.

#33 Posted by Bo88gdan (4393 posts) - - Show Bio

Franklin richards stomps JLA

#34 Posted by beatboks1 (6958 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gritterr said:

Post Dr Fate Scans!!!!!!

there aren't many of Nabu fate but here are a few.

#35 Posted by WillPayton (9047 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Wow, nice scans... thanks!

See, I think people are giving the team too little credit. Fate can hang with the unbound Spectre, and Starheart Alan at full power is a universal level threat.

#36 Posted by charlieboy (7150 posts) - - Show Bio

I am leaning towards Franklin here.

#37 Posted by Vaeternus (9391 posts) - - Show Bio

Team JL. Fate is uber powerful, especially classic fate. Also, I know it's not said but is this regular Superman not SA Supes right? Either way going with the team. FR is overrated...

#38 Posted by CosmosTyrant (477 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vaeternus: I don't think he is overrated for the power he holds.

I think the team gets the upper hand, But Atoms,Sups and MM are nothing here.

#39 Posted by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan and Fate might be able to do something. I don't know.

#40 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

FR

#41 Posted by Vaeternus (9391 posts) - - Show Bio

@CosmosTyrant, that's just my view. I think FR is overrated a tad. I wouldn't say MMH and Supes are non factors though, Supes may not be able to do much against a reality warper unless it's SA or Prime One Million(which I'm guessing is not the version he's using here since SA has dealt with Mxy...) MMH could mind hurt him I think.

But honestly, I think the team take sit because Fate especially classic was uber powerful and Nabu at his best was taking on Spectre who would spank FR....

#42 Posted by BigCimmerian (7845 posts) - - Show Bio

Franklin only needs to say NO MORE JUSTICE LEAGUE

#43 Posted by beatboks1 (6958 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not weighing in on the battle (because I don't know enough about FR) but I think it's important to note that classic Fate (who is below Nabu "energy form" Fate) was also able to battle Spectre on fairly equal footing more than once. Spectre couldn't destroy him only BFR after pages of battle. That version of Fate also recreated the earth and all life on as if nothing had happened after it was destroyed in a battle he had with a god. Nabu was only destroyed by Spectre because he allowed it. Quite frankly he knew the only way that mortals could win was for the spectre to win and achieve all he wanted. He simply made sure that in doing so it also reigned him in. he spent the whole battle escalating it enough so that the Presence had to take notice. Alan with full starheart is also a reality warper on a pretty high scale but ususally only get's to that level when blood lusted or one of his love ones is in great danger and driven. Most of the time he holds back to contain the starheart within him (which he believes is a malevolent force ). I have no doubt that these two together at peak levels could defeat Spectre where neither alone would.

#44 Posted by Vaeternus (9391 posts) - - Show Bio

Or at least deal with Spectre, but yeah alone he'd destroy either of them.

#45 Posted by WillPayton (9047 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian said:

Franklin only needs to say NO MORE JUSTICE LEAGUE

If the Spectre couldnt defeat Dr Fate this easily, what makes you think Franklin could? Yes, Franklin is a reality warper, but he cant just will Fate and Alan out of existence, since they are each high-level reality warpers and magic users themselves. Remember this isnt normal Alan Scott, it's bloodlusted Alan with the full power of the Starheart. That means he's possessed by a sentient entity made out of the magical energy of the universe at the time when the Guardians gathered it all up.

#46 Posted by XMen1963 (484 posts) - - Show Bio

Gotta go with the team. Alan Scott = Boss

#47 Posted by They Killed Cap! (2243 posts) - - Show Bio

Franklin Richards wrecks the team

#48 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5039 posts) - - Show Bio

FRanklin and his "herald" Galactus stomp

#49 Posted by WillPayton (9047 posts) - - Show Bio

@WaveMotionCannon said:

FRanklin and his "herald" Galactus stomp

No

#50 Posted by spiderbuck (2418 posts) - - Show Bio

Franklin Richards