FotE: KnightofZero vs Joewell(Voting Open)

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The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk

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KnightofZero:

  • Fire: Roy Mustang (FMA brotherhood)
  • Water: Katara
  • Air: Tenzin
  • Earth: Toph
  • Darkness: Pride (FMA brotherhood)

vs

Joewell:

  • Air: Avatar State Aang
  • Fire: Sozin's Comet Ozai
  • Dark: Teen Titans Raven
  • Earth: King Bumi
  • Water: Amon

Location: Kaizeph, City of the Elements. Joewell starts on the water side, KnightofZero starts on the earth side.

No Caption Provided

Conditions for victory: Death

You know the rules, you know how it goes. Debate!

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The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk

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Joewell911

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@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk: I love you for not putting me against an all anime/manga team.

I gots a couple questions though.

Will my and his characters still know each other?

How well will teams work together?

and

Do the effect at the bottom of the card matter?

@knightofzero: You want to go first? Or should I? ( I know nothing about Roy or Pride )

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The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk

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@joewell said:

@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk: I love you for not putting me against an all anime/manga team. I try <3

I gots a couple questions though.

Will my and his characters still know each other? If they know each other in their universe, yes.

How well will teams work together? In character, but willing to work with their team no matter if bad blood.

and

Do the effect at the bottom of the card matter? No, only the location(image) matters.

@knightofzero: You want to go first? Or should I? ( I know nothing about Roy or Pride )

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Joewell911

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Joewell911

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#6  Edited By Joewell911

AND KILL THEM!!!!!!! >:(((((

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KnightOfZero

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#7  Edited By KnightOfZero
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The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk

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@knightofzero: No, they just know they are there and there are enemies and they need to kill the enemies.

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KnightOfZero

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#9  Edited By KnightOfZero

@joewell Well, you know a good half of my team, but for all the votes out there who took time out of their day to read this, i'll show off my team and their abilities

Fire:

First up, we have Roy Mustang: (Image)Roy is a "State Alchemist", meaning he has had military training in army of Amestris. He fought for several years in the War of Ishval. So, something to keep in mind is that he has loads of experience fighting guerrilla warfare type soldiers.

His main method of fighting is using flame alchemy. As an alchemist, Roy can transmute matter, so what he does is he separates the molecules in the air to make them highly volatile, then using his special glove (which he doesn't need to use by the end of the series), he makes a spark, which can cause explosions where ever he wants Here is an example of what i am talking about:

Loading Video...

Had this been a normal person, he would have incinerated her instantly.

Now, something else he can do is pinpoint where he wants the explosion to target:

Loading Video...

3:04 You can hear roy snap his fingers and within a second, he burns Evny's tongue out. This shows that his attacks hit people in one second.

4:40 Roy snaps his fingers and lights the fluid in Envy's eyes on fire, blinding him

Next we have Water:

Katara is a master waterbender. But we all know that. Here are some of her abilities at her disposal:Healing

Using sweat and other bodily fluids as a water source

Freezing water/ice manipulation

Drawing water from the air

Drawing water from plants

Here is an example of the last 2:

Loading Video...

1:00: She pulls water out of the grass on the ground AND resists bloodbending

1:35: Rips water out of trees to attack hama

She is more powerful then other master waterbenders with decades more experience. She is never without water, and she can use this to her advantage. She can strike you with water from sources that you dont expect (ie, surprise attacks)

Earth/Air:

We both know tenzin and toph, so i'll address their capabilities if i need to (plus i dont feel like looking up their videos and stuff now)

Darkness:

And finally, we have Pride.

Pride's main ability is his shadow manipulation. He can turn his shadow into objects like hands and spikes

Loading Video...

You can see that he is capable of making limitless amounts of shadow spikes with his mind and can easily control every one.

At 7:16, you can see that he is capable of restraining Alphonse (who has super strength and limitless stamina)

At 8:10ish, you can see that the shadows are easily capable of breaking through steel

His shadows are capable of breaking through rocks, and the only reason he doesnt kill edward is because of his special metal arm made to be stronger than steel, incredibly light, and in general, very durable. Another skill he possess is the ability to kill and absorb people into himself, giving him some of their abilities. He super smell from when he killed Gluttony, meaning he can tell where you are even if he cant see you. Now, he does have a weakness, but i highly doubt it will be an issue, so i'll address it anyway:He can't make his shadows when there is absolutely no light or when the light is too intense. that wont be an issue though because the fight takes place during the day, giving him the light he needs.

Another ability that will come in handy is his regeneration. He can regenerate as long as his philosopher stone has power. I'll go into regeneration later if i need to use it.

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KnightOfZero

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#10  Edited By KnightOfZero

Strategy

@joewellI'll start out by using Pride's sense of smell to detect where your team is (giving me an advantage right off the bat)

Toph will take Roy, Tenzin and Katara underground using her earthbending and go head towards your team

Meanwhile, Pride is going to use his shadows to attack you from a distance (he can see from where his shadows are). While your team is looking for my team, they will be assaulted by Pride's shadows. Your team will be engaged with pride while he is away at a safe distance. He will keep your team pinned down in an area until my underground team finds where you are.

Now, assuming that pride's shadows dont kill you outright, my underground team will eventually locate where your team is. Toph (using seismic sense to know where and more importantly who she is going up against), will tell roy the exact position of each of your team members. Toph will then send roy to the surface. Now, with the knowledge of where your team is, as soon as roy comes up from under ground, he will snap his fingers and burn your entire team's eyes out (should take about 3 seconds max for him to snap his fingers 5 times). Your team will no doubt be on the ground writhing in pain, blinded, which will allow for an easy victory either through roy incinerating your bodies, pride stabbing them with his shadows, or any other mean my team has of killing.

"But wait", you say, "i have sozin's comet enhanced Ozai and avatar state aang on my team. I will easily be able to counter roy's fire."

well, yes you could. If you were expecting it.

and if you could bend the small amount of fire away from you in under 1 second.

and if you werent already focused on pride's many shadows attacking you.

Toph can tell who people are through seismic sense. She will know about aang's and ozai's powers, so roy will probably target them first, to incapacitate the only people who could counter his fire alchemy. But he doesnt have to worry, as within a few seconds, your whole team will have their eyes burned out, so it doesnt matter who he attacks first.

But wait, I have bumi and aang. they will be able to tell when my men are coming because they have seismic sens'".

well, you are half right on that. while aang has shown the capability to use seismic sense, bumi has not. the show made it a point to say that toph was the only one who had seismic sense, and she taught it to aang. So, when toph sees aang from underground, she will know that they might be seen, and will be able to counter if aang tries anything.

and if aang does try anything, he will have to take his focus off of pride, giving pride a chance to kill aang outright. but if that doesnt work, toph can easily counter anything aang tries to do (she has stated that aang still had lots of training to do, meaning she was stronger.(imagine her with 40 years of practice and combat as a police chief in republic city.)

and all of this is assuming that aang notices this while he is fighting for his life against living shadows. there is a good chance that he will miss this detail because his attention will be focused elsewhere. the only time aang truly used seismic sense was in his fight against Ozai, and even then, he had nothing to take his attention away. it was quiet, he wasnt fighting, and ozai was a few feet away from him (plus aang was probably expecting ozai to try and attack him).

But amon's bloodbending will allow me to stop roy from instakilling my entire team

well, this is false. not only will he not be expecting this and taken by surprise, but again, he has a short 3 second max time window to try and stop roy. after that, his eyeballs go boom, and he is down for the count. not to mention pride is kicking everyone's ass with his shadows, so amon will be focused on other things. But for the sake of argument, lets say you manage to stop roy with your bloodbending (and coincidentally, used up the "only be able to control/manipulate one person per round rule). Well, you still have to deal with the other 4 members of your team (making this a 4 on 1 and amon cant bloodbend anyone else), so that wont be an issue.

Loading Video...

Not to mention this video shows that people can still take actions while being bloodbent (like mako shooting lighting or korra using airbending), so im sure the simple action of snapping one's fingers wont be that big of a deal for roy (especially considering you are still fighting pride this whole time)

soooo..... i should take this fight will very few casualties

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The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk

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@knightofzero: That's a cool strategy. However, Amon doesn't count as the control one per debate limit, as that is for telepathy only. Amon is not TP, and is actually controlling the liquid inside another person's body. Just wanted to clear that up before Joewell responds.

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KnightOfZero

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@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk

well, he is using bloodbending using his mind, so i thought that would count. and he is technically controlling someones actions, but whatever.

lets just see what joewell has to say

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Joewell911

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@knightofzero: I should have something up tonight. And thanks for telling me Prides weakness, I'll keep it in mind

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@joewell

eh, i figure i should tell you that way no one can accuse me of cheating.

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@knightofzero: Now its my turn for an intro! I'll only be showing the most important feats off the bat, I'll bring in some more if needed later on.

So without further ado, Phoenix King Ozai!

Fire:

Here with have Ozai, the ex-leader of the Fire Nation. He is obviously a master combatant, showing himself against a fully realized Avatar, and only barely losing. Here if his greatest feat:

Loading Video...

See Beginning to End:

Feats for Ozai:

  • Showsthe range of a full powered blast
  • 1:30: Shows a circle blast that can destroy all around him
  • Dodges a boulder from Aang with flying
  • Showing his skill against Aang, both offensive and defensive
  • 2:40: Shoots a huge lightning bolt that destroy'd that pillar
  • 4:10ish: Shows some fire that would incinerate and normal person
  • 6:10ish-Up: Withstands the Avatars full assault and while he loses, he pushed the avatar like no one has before and will surely proved to be a strong member of my team

Feats for Aang:

  • 1:30-Up: Dodges Ozai's attacks for a long while with incredible speed
  • 2:40: Makes a mini-tornado to dodge lightning and continues to dodge it
  • 2:50: Does a backflip and catches and redirects lightning shot from behind him
  • 5:10-Up: Blocks a close combat fire bolt from Ozai
  • Blast Ozai several hundred yards with an airblast
  • Shows off his nigh-impenetrable airball
  • 7:20ish-Up: Destroys huge fireballs with airblast
  • Destrinigrates a huge pillar of earth with Air only
  • 8:40: Uses his seismic sense and stops Ozai's attack

So as you can see both Ozai and Aang are vicious opponents and will do well in this battle.

Water:

Amon is an Anti-bender from the water nation that is an expert Water and Blood bender. Even with out bending he is a fearsome and quick opponent.

Well, you kinda stole my feat for Amon above, but I'll go through it and make it sound more impressive anyways :P

Loading Video...

Watch begining to end

Feats for Amon:

  • 0:35-Up: Grabs both Korra and Mako with bloodbending and toys with them
  • Dodges many shots from Mako with ease
  • 1:10-Up: Is completely cover'd in lightning and gets up only a bit later perfectly fine
  • Use's Bloodbending again to stop Mako in his tracks

You mention above that people resisted Amon's bloodbending. When Mako " resisted " it didn't even show him to move his body. He simply just shot lightning. As for Korra...well she may have resisted it fair and square. But she had already known about his powers and preped herself for it.

Your team, with the exception of Tenzin will not.

Air:

Aang, the last airbender and the former Avatar. Probably the better than Tenzin normally, but here he has a way to make sure. The Avatar State. I've shown above Aangs level of Airbending in my Ozai video. Its far outclasses anything Tenzin has shown.

I think the Ozai video showed enough of his power for now

Earth:

Bumi is the ex-king of Omashu and possibly the best Earthbender in Avatar.

Loading Video...

Here's his first fight with Aang where he most likely held back. You can see he's pretty relaxed throughout the fight and is cracking jokes the whole way through.

  • 0:30-Up: Launches Aang into the air
  • Battles with Aang and is keeping him on the defences the whole time.
  • 1:40: Makes an earth shield that blocks Aangs airblast after its been fired
  • 2:20: Turns the ground into quicksand that even Aang has trouble getting out of
  • Completely integrates a huge boulder coming at him
  • Picks up a very large section of the wall and throws it at Aang, then slipts it in half

So again, He is definitely a very BA earthbender

Darkness:

Finally we move onto Raven of the Teen Titans. A half-demon and daughter of Trigon. She is probably the most powerful Teen Titan in the cartoon and one of the most here. She has many dark related powers that I will show below.

( I'll edit this in a bit with all her feats and my counter soon, gotta take a quick break )

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Joewell911

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@knightofzero: Decided to make a new post, too much to lose if something goes wrong ( and it has before )

Darkness:

Finally we move onto Raven of the Teen Titans. A half-demon and daughter of Trigon. She is probably the most powerful Teen Titan in the cartoon and one of the most here. She has many dark related powers that I will show below.

Loading Video...

Here she destroys an amped Slade. While he can't fight back here I'm sure he couldn't if he tried.

  • Slams him against the wall with ease
  • 1:00, grabs Slade out of the ground and wraps him in complete darkness as she proceeds to stomp him ( which would have killed him if he wasn't powered by Trigon )

Not many feats for Raven on the webs but I'll look for more later.

I know its bad to use a wiki but due to lack of video's here's a list of Ravens powers: http://teentitans.wikia.com/wiki/Raven

As you can see she has a plethora of dark-powers including Telekinesis, Constructs, and Phasing to name a few

Strategy:

Well first off, I'd like to counter your strategy.

So A: Prides shadows will be useless if Raven can do what I think she can.

As soon as the battle starts Raven will fly into the air and spot your team. They start in the most open area of the field so it shouldn't be hard. Raven will fly down and warn her team, then quickly fly to Pride. When there Raven will enclose him in a forcefield as she has done multiple times in the series. ( Again, sorry about the lack of video's ) These force fields are completely dark, so if my information of Pride is correct, this should invalidate his powers, right?

If so, then Pride will be useless to your team, and Raven will finish him in the quickest way possible, then return to the team.

B: My team will know about yours via Raven.

So as you admitted, Aang can use his seismic sense to sense them along with Raven telling them they're coming underground, there will be no surprize. With knowing they're coming and not having shadows as distraction, they'll have the edge.

Before Roy is even fully out of the ground Bumi will turn the ground to quick sand trapping him. Then Amon quickly cut the circulation to his brain as his father did here:

Loading Video...

Skip to 4:20 were Yakone, Amon's father that Amon was said to surpass, incaps a whole courtroom without moving.

Amon will do this to Roy first, then Ozai will finish him via incenteration.

By now Toph, Tenzin, and Katara will probably be out of the ground, but Aang will take care of it until Bumi, Ozai, and Amon are done with Roy ( shouldn't take more than a couple seconds )

I've shown Aang can hold off the 3 benders. No one will be able to touch him in Avatar State at all. He will be in the air making Toph incapable of hitting him while he'll be pounding them with airblast.

Then the rest of my team will join in. Ozai alone should be able to take them, but with Bumi, Aang, and Amon along, the 3 have no chance.

So to recap; Raven flies up and see's your team. Then warns mine about them. Then she will fly at Pride while the rest are under. Raven will lock Pride in complete darkness leaving him powerless and will kill him. Then rush back to my team.

While this is happening Amon, Ozai, and Bumi will take care of Roy by trapping him in the ground and KOing him. Then finishing him with fire.

Roy shouldn't be able to stop it because he'll be stuck in the ground and Toph will be too busy with Aang.

Aang will keep the other three busy with powerful airblast and his bubble until the other 3 come and finish them with their sheer power.

So no Pride tendril attack, No Roy incineration snap, and no surprises.

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KnightOfZero

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@joewell

not bad, however i have a counter:

Roy mustang has a lighter that he uses to make fire, though he doesnt use it that often. he can give it to pride (who he knows needs light in order to work) in case your team finds a way to encase him in darkness. so if raven uses her force field to trap him, he can flick on the lighter and BAM, he gets all of his powers back.

however, raven would be unable to control his shadows. In the show, they say that the shadows Pride makes are his true self and that his child like body is just a vessel for him to move around in. So once he sees raven fly up to scout around, he can attack her with his tendrils and break out of any forcefield she puts around him.

and if you try and kill him in the force field, it wont work. I'll post a video later, but he has very good regeneration, so killing him won't be as easy as you think. Once you crush him, raven will get rid of the force field (as she has no knowledge of his regeneration, and she can do an easy surprise attack soon after (assuming he didnt already skewer raven at the start).

Now, in the Dark Horse comic "bump vs toph", it is pretty clear that they are both equal in terms of power. So toph can match anything that bumi can do.

Actually, i take that back. she is better than bumi. how do i know? she was even with him when she was 12. when she was 40, she had had 28 years of extra training and combat experience as a Metal bending police oficer (oh right, Bumi cant metal bend). Whatever bumi tries, toph can counter it with little to no effort.

Now, as i have countered your raven 1 shot of pride, your team is still dealing with the tendrils he can make (and he can make a shit ton of tendrils). now, you will be trying and hold of the shadows, so again, your focus wont be on what is underground (even with aang's seismic sense), but on the enemy in front of you

Now, worst case scenario and you do find my team under ground. what are you going to do. If bumi or aang tries any earthbending shenanigans, toph can counter it no problem, so thats out. now, with seismic senses ability to tell who a person is, toph will know that my team is fighting bumi, ozai, and aang, and she knows what they are all capable of. by that token, you know that i have katara (aang doesnt know who roy is, probably wont recognize toph 28 years later, and he hasnt met tenzin yet). you dont know what roy is capable off, so you wont expect roy's one shots.

toph will then use her earthbending to cause an earthquake on the surface or open up the earth to knock your team off balance and distract them.

while that is going on, roy has jumped out on your distracted team and with in 2 seconds, burned your team's eyes out (each snap=1 attack. each snap= less than half a second. he has 2 hands to use, so .5*5=2.5/2=1.25 seconds). your team just cant retaliate to this because not only are they off balanced and probably falling into the earth, but also fighting pride and have a 1.25 second window to attempt anything.

also, while you are off balance, pride can attack your team with little retaliation and skewer them all (assuming he hasnt already killed some less agile members of your team, like bumi)

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Joewell911

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@knightofzero: Right back atcha!

Counter Time!

And then Raven uses TK to destroy the lighter and BAM he's useless again.

When did I ever say she'll crush him? I said she has multiple ways of killing Pride whether it's dropping him in the Lava not to far away, throwing him off the island, or just holding him until the rest of my team is done

Now, in the Dark Horse comic "bump vs toph", it is pretty clear that they are both equal in terms of power. So toph can match anything that bumi can do.

Actually, i take that back. she is better than bumi. how do i know? she was even with him when she was 12. when she was 40, she had had 28 years of extra training and combat experience as a Metal bending police oficer (oh right, Bumi cant metal bend). Whatever bumi tries, toph can counter it with little to no effort.

Maybe she is, maybe she isn't a better bender. You're still outnumbered three to four and my others are clearly more superior.

Now, worst case scenario and you do find my team under ground. what are you going to do. If bumi or aang tries any earthbending shenanigans, toph can counter it no problem, so thats out. now, with seismic senses ability to tell who a person is, toph will know that my team is fighting bumi, ozai, and aang, and she knows what they are all capable of. by that token, you know that i have katara (aang doesnt know who roy is, probably wont recognize toph 28 years later, and he hasnt met tenzin yet). you dont know what roy is capable off, so you wont expect roy's one shots.

toph will then use her earthbending to cause an earthquake on the surface or open up the earth to knock your team off balance and distract them.

while that is going on, roy has jumped out on your distracted team and with in 2 seconds, burned your team's eyes out (each snap=1 attack. each snap= less than half a second. he has 2 hands to use, so .5*5=2.5/2=1.25 seconds). your team just cant retaliate to this because not only are they off balanced and probably falling into the earth, but also fighting pride and have a 1.25 second window to attempt anything.

So now thats theres no shadows my old plan is back on track.

Yes she'll know who my team is but mine should know yours just as well. Aang is adult here so he'll will know Tenzin, Toph, and Katara right off the bat.

Then Bumi will stop the quake and my plan with dispatching Roy will go on. You said yourself there around the same level, and even 28 years later Bumi still has 2x the experience. He's in his hundreds

Roy has no way at all to stop the bloodbending. He'll still be half in the ground when he's KOed and burnt to a crisp.

There's no denying that Aang will stomp any of your remaining team 1on1. He already did to Toph with air ( which will be his main attacks here. ) Ozai will destroy Katara as she could only barely beat a psycho Azula, Ozai is much more powerful, 1 or 2 blast and she'll be down for the count. Then Amon will take Tenzin, who would have no way of stopping bloodbending.

So my plan is pretty much the same. Raven attacks Pride, destroys his source of light, and kills him. While Bumi stops Toph's quake, and lets him be killed by Ozai/Amon. Then my benders will kill yours with their superior power and skills.

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KnightOfZero

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@joewell

I'm a little busy tonight with my other tournament and homework, so i'll get back to this as soon as i can

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Joewell911

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KnightOfZero

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@joewell finally, i have some free time. now where were we?

ok, so you are using 40 year old aang. got it.

and you are using bumi from 28 years later? a bumi who we dont even know is still alive? a bumi who is so old that he probably can't move any more? I highly doubt you can use bumi from 28 years after the original series. Unlike Toph, who we know is alive and has spent her time developing the metal bending police (proof that she has been doing training), there is no mention what so ever of bumi, so your reasoning that bumi is twice as strong as he was at the end of the series is invalidated.

now, how will raven know pride has a lighter? how will she know that pride loses all of his power in absolute darkness?

answer: she doesnt.

Now, lets say that raven does manage to trap pride in a force field and lets say that she does drop him in lava. check out what pride can do:

No Caption Provided

Here we have Green (another Homonculus, which is what pride is) showing full regeneration after being beheaded. Inside of every homonculus is a philosopher stone, and as long as that stone has power, pride can make fully regenerate, even if he was completely destroyed. His philosopher stone cannot be destroyed except by using up all of its power (Power is dictated by the number of human souls inside of it, and pride has anywhere between a couple hundred to possibly millions of souls).

Here is another example of their regeneration:

No Caption Provided

Lust here was just burned to a crisp by Roy mustang's fire. So this proves that a philosopher stone is heat resistant and that homonculus can fully regenerate when destroyed.

so, you drop him in lava, and due to your lack of knowledge on prides abilities, you will assume he is dead, begin to go back to your group, and BAM, stabbed in the back by a tendril.

So, now that raven is dead, back to plan A

Tendril are attacking you (tendrils you might not see because the will just look like shadows on the ground). you will be taken by surprise by this attack (because aang would not be able to pick up shadows with seismic sense) and probably die right there. I have shown that pride's tendrils can cut through reinforced steel, so even if you tried blocking with earth bending, the tendrils cut through them and you are dead.

For both my raven argument and this one, i dont think you appreciate the amount of tendrils pride can make:

and all of those can break through steel
and all of those can break through steel

And each tendril has a long reach as well:

No Caption Provided

This is in an underground tunnel in either east or west city (i cant remember which). Pride is located in central city (his cover is that he is the son of the Ruler of the nation, so he never leaves the city. Now how far away is that?

No Caption Provided

if you use the key at the bottom, it is roughly 180 kilometers or 112 miles from central to east city

So, yeah, he has some reach.

So while you guys are being attacked, we will continue underground. I highly doubt that aang will be concerned with what is under ground while he is getting rapped by shadows up top.

It is very likely that Bumi and possibly ozai will die here. Bumi's strengths doesnt lie in his speed, reaction time, or agility. Its in his sheer brute force. When he tries to guard with a rock barrier or something, he will be skewered by the shadows.

Ozai, while strong, is again, a mainly brute force kind of guy. He will probably survive longer that bumi, but i feel like he will eventually fall.

You are now left with amon and Aang.

Now, lets say my plan doesnt work and amon manages to knock out roy. I still got 4 guys.

Toph would be able to cause him to sink underground and crush him inside the earth, kinda like what happened to Katara

No Caption Provided

Now, once amon is sucked into the earth, the sand will turn to hard rock, crushing him instantly.

Assuming the same doesnt happen to aang, he is now going 4 v 1 (and lets not forget that one of his opponents is the girl he loves, so we might need to take that in to consideration. Hell, katara could probably ask aang to stop fighting and surrender and he would probably do it).

Tenzin would be able to counter most of the air attacks aang throws at him, katara could pull water straight out of the air to freeze aang solid, pride could skewer him while he goes 4 v 1, and toph can block most of his attacks with very strong earth barriers.

Lastly, i would like to point out that if any of your characters are wearing metal (like bumi ozai, or Amon), toph could use her metal bending to turn that metal against you, having it rip through your bodies at high velocities

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Joewell911

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#23  Edited By Joewell911

@knightofzero:

ok, so you are using 40 year old aang. got it.

and you are using bumi from 28 years later? a bumi who we dont even know is still alive? a bumi who is so old that he probably can't move any more? I highly doubt you can use bumi from 28 years after the original series. Unlike Toph, who we know is alive and has spent her time developing the metal bending police (proof that she has been doing training), there is no mention what so ever of bumi, so your reasoning that bumi is twice as strong as he was at the end of the series is invalidated.

Well no, I'm using all in their prime. And I never said he was twice as strong just more experienced.

now, how will raven know pride has a lighter? how will she know that pride loses all of his power in absolute darkness?

answer: she doesnt.

She'll know because he'll use it. Why would she let him uses a lighter if she's fighting him. For all she knows Pride can be a fire controller. So the second he uses it she'll crush it.

Now, lets say that raven does manage to trap pride in a force field and lets say that she does drop him in lava. check out what pride can do:

No Caption Provided

Here we have Green (another Homonculus, which is what pride is) showing full regeneration after being beheaded. Inside of every homonculus is a philosopher stone, and as long as that stone has power, pride can make fully regenerate, even if he was completely destroyed. His philosopher stone cannot be destroyed except by using up all of its power (Power is dictated by the number of human souls inside of it, and pride has anywhere between a couple hundred to possibly millions of souls).

Here is another example of their regeneration:

Lust here was just burned to a crisp by Roy mustang's fire. So this proves that a philosopher stone is heat resistant and that homonculus can fully regenerate when destroyed.
Lust here was just burned to a crisp by Roy mustang's fire. So this proves that a philosopher stone is heat resistant and that homonculus can fully regenerate when destroyed.

Lust here was just burned to a crisp by Roy mustang's fire. So this proves that a philosopher stone is heat resistant and that homonculus can fully regenerate when destroyed.

so, you drop him in lava, and due to your lack of knowledge on prides abilities, you will assume he is dead, begin to go back to your group, and BAM, stabbed in the back by a tendril.

So you're saying he can't be killed normally, therefore he breaks the rules. Right @the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk?

Even if not Raven can throw him off the island in a forcefield, leaving him powerless as he falls to his death.

So my plan is back on.

Now, lets say my plan doesnt work and amon manages to knock out roy. I still got 4 guys.

Toph would be able to cause him to sink underground and crush him inside the earth, kinda like what happened to Katara

No Caption Provided

Now, once amon is sucked into the earth, the sand will turn to hard rock, crushing him instantly.

Assuming the same doesnt happen to aang, he is now going 4 v 1 (and lets not forget that one of his opponents is the girl he loves, so we might need to take that in to consideration. Hell, katara could probably ask aang to stop fighting and surrender and he would probably do it).

Tenzin would be able to counter most of the air attacks aang throws at him, katara could pull water straight out of the air to freeze aang solid, pride could skewer him while he goes 4 v 1, and toph can block most of his attacks with very strong earth barriers.

Lastly, i would like to point out that if any of your characters are wearing metal (like bumi ozai, or Amon), toph could use her metal bending to turn that metal against you, having it rip through your bodies at high velocities

That would work if Amon was completely useless and Aang wasn't attacking Toph. But as I said in my last post Aang will be going for Toph, Ozai for Katara ( Not dead because no shadows ), and Amon for Tenzin after Roy is done for.

Aang would not stop for Katara because I'm guessing they know they must fight to the death here, he may not kill her himself but he won't hold back.

And again, maybe she could metal bend them if she wasn't under assault from Aang.

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@joewell

Pride can be killed. You just have to be killed enough time. for example, you would have to stab him a few hundred time in order to use up all of his souls in the philosopher stone

2nd, pride wouldnt use the lighter unless he was in total darkness. he would pull it out inside the force field and keep it in his pocket until he needed to use it. i.e., you dont know that he has it. and even if you through him off of the city, he could use his shadows to boost him back up to the surface

Now the issue with you fighting my characters is that after roy comes up from the ground (and incinerates your characters in 1.25 seconds), you wont be able to stop me. why?

well, toph can knock you off balance via earth quakes (and she is more powerful than bumi, so he cant counter her easily) you will be distracted with your attention focused elsewhere. You wont be focused on roy scorching your team. not to mention that you still dont have a counter to toph pulling your team underground. she wont be worried about fighting aang because she is under ground (where aang isn't). and if aang did try and go underground, toph could easily crush him.

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Joewell911

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#25  Edited By Joewell911

@knightofzero:

Still seems overpowered....

And the second he does use it the lighter will be destroyed. He won't be able to boost up because Raven won't release him until he is at a safe distance down. Or again she could just keep him trapped for a bit until everyone else is done.

When Toph makes a quake Bumi will counter it. Not easily no, but he can still do it. So the rest of my team is free.

Then Amon will insta-KO Roy while Aang or Bumi traps him in the ground. And don't tell me Roy snapping is faster Amon thinking.

Toph won't pull Aang or Bumi under because they can counter with earth, Ozai because he'll be in the sky destroying Katara, and Amon because he'll bloodbend her if she does.

And I'm pretty sure Toph won't sit under ground while the rest of her team gets annihilated by mine. But if she does then it will be 1 on 4 when Bumi and Aang pull her out of the ground.

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@joewell

that makes no sense. the second he uses the lighter iwill be inside the force field. raven will be unable see inside the forcefield, so how will she know that i have the lighter? and if you take the time to break the lighter, that is time you arent spending blocking pides's shadows

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not to mention, i have proven that toph 28 years later is stronger than bumi. he has no idea that this quake is coming, my team does. the sequence of events is

1: quake happens, you are knocked off balance

2: roy comes up while you are off balance, but before you can recover (you can think of 1 and 2 happening almost simultaneously)

3: bumi tries to counter the quake, but finds his eyes have been burned out.

4ish: amon (knocked of balance and distracted) will not be using bloodbending (due to the reason i have said and the fact that pride is kicking his ass 28 ways from sunday). he will have a 1.25 second window to

  • regain his focus
  • regain his balance
  • notice roy
  • bloodbend him

i highly doubt that will happen

5: the rest of my team comes up shortly after roy, further distracting your team. now you have 4 guys and a shit ton of shadows to worry about so all of your attention wont be focused on roy.

6: by this point, 1.25 seconds has passed and your entire team is crippled and/or dead. we mop up the rest

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@joewell: They can be killed, you just have to do it... a lot. However, if people think this is unfair, he will be removed. Tag the other competitors to see what they think.

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@knightofzero:

Yeah you can see inside the force field from the outside, see;

Loading Video...

( Note, Raven only " lost " here because her weakness is losing control, Slade was controlling Terra telling her what to say to make Raven mad )

Hope this helps you understand a bit. But anything on the outside of the construct can see the things on the inside with a white outlining. Raven would see the lighter being pulled out, destroy it, and contain Pride again. If she even has to put down the shields it will only be for a second.

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not to mention, i have proven that toph 28 years later is stronger than bumi. he has no idea that this quake is coming, my team does. the sequence of events is

1: quake happens, you are knocked off balance

2: roy comes up while you are off balance, but before you can recover (you can think of 1 and 2 happening almost simultaneously)

3: bumi tries to counter the quake, but finds his eyes have been burned out.

4ish: amon (knocked of balance and distracted) will not be using bloodbending (due to the reason i have said and the fact that pride is kicking his ass 28 ways from sunday). he will have a 1.25 second window to

  • regain his focus
  • regain his balance
  • notice roy
  • bloodbend him

i highly doubt that will happen

5: the rest of my team comes up shortly after roy, further distracting your team. now you have 4 guys and a shit ton of shadows to worry about so all of your attention wont be focused on roy.

6: by this point, 1.25 seconds has passed and your entire team is crippled and/or dead. we mop up the rest

How? You're only going off assumption. Only thing older Toph have shown is better metalbending ( no metal here ) and getting stomped by Amon's dad.

I've already said how Raven will stop Pride from using the shadows. So here's what should happen

  1. Quake Happens, Bumi feels and stops it
  2. Roy comes up only to be trapped in the ground by Aang and knocked out by Amon. Again, Amon can think to knock him out before he can snap ( which shouldn't be possible considering hes half underground )

I don't see why you keep assuming my team doesn't know they're coming, Raven warned them and Aang can feel them traveling underground.

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KnightOfZero

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#31  Edited By KnightOfZero

@Joewell Well, wait, if you can see inside of the field, that means light is being let in, so pride can use his shadows no problem.

And I do not believe that prides regeneration is unfair. Every homunculus was eventually killed by an alchemist in FMA and alchemists are peak human at best. It just takes time (though pride was only killed by PSI after being weakened for a plot reason, so take that with what you will)

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Being a metal bending police officer doesn't mean all you do is metal bending. You have to already be a master earth bender to metal bend in the first place and the police use earth bending just as much as metal bending.

In the events after avatar, all toph did was train. She tough others how to metal bend in the comic "the promise" and spent at least a decade as a police officer, which requires a lot of combat because you will be fitting other benders. Having almost 3 decades of straight training will boost your skill. Considering she was equal to bump when she was 12, she will dominate him when she is 40.

Also, you proved my argument. Bump has to feel the earthquake, meaning he will be affected by it. We can't just stop it instantly and it will affect your entire team in the time it takes bumi to stop it.

Also,the first thing toph, Roy, tenzin and katara will do is go under ground. By the time raven has flown up and spots my team, they will be underground, so she will only see pride (ie, aang will be. Unaware that we are approaching them). And if aang or bumi try any funny business with Roy via earth bending, she can counter that fairly easily (as she is a better earth bender than aang is)

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Joewell911

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@knightofzero: Wha-Oh god. What eves. I really don't think the shields are letting light in, everything else in the shield is dark, and its only showing the outline

But even if they are Raven will still be going after Pride, and in order to stay alive Pride will have to focus all his power on her. He still won't be able to attack my benders or he'll be killed by Raven.

In the battle with Terra ( in which she was off because of being angered ) Raven blocks most projectiles she throws at her. Here will be similar.

Also, Raven could just pick Pride up with TK, immobilizing him. Then just wail on him until he died.

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Joewell911

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#35  Edited By Joewell911

Being a metal bending police officer doesn't mean all you do is metal bending. You have to already be a master earth bender to metal bend in the first place and the police use earth bending just as much as metal bending.

In the events after avatar, all toph did was train. She tough others how to metal bend in the comic "the promise" and spent at least a decade as a police officer, which requires a lot of combat because you will be fitting other benders. Having almost 3 decades of straight training will boost your skill. Considering she was equal to bump when she was 12, she will dominate him when she is 40.

Also, you proved my argument. Bump has to feel the earthquake, meaning he will be affected by it. We can't just stop it instantly and it will affect your entire team in the time it takes bumi to stop it.

Also,the first thing toph, Roy, tenzin and katara will do is go under ground. By the time raven has flown up and spots my team, they will be underground, so she will only see pride (ie, aang will be. Unaware that we are approaching them). And if aang or bumi try any funny business with Roy via earth bending, she can counter that fairly easily (as she is a better earth bender than aang is)

I know all of this. Both Bumi and Toph are master Earthbenders

Toph will not be " dominating " Bumi here. What I don't understand is if you have already mastered something how can you possibly get better. She just gained more experience and ways to use her power, something Bumi has done for over 100 years

It won't take long, maybe 2-3 seconds. A question, how big do you plan Toph to make this? Theres no way she's moving the entire island, or even the sector.

But Roy's giving Pride the lighter first, that will take enough time for Raven to fly up and see him being taken underground. Even if not Aang can use seismic sense

But Toph will be making a quake. She's not the best at multitasking as seen in " The Library " episode. She won't be able to save Roy and keep the quake. Also, Amon's incaping ( or he could just go for the kill ) him the second he comes up even if Toph pulls him down it will be to late

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KnightOfZero

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#36  Edited By KnightOfZero

@joewell well if you can see the white outline, light has to be entering in order for you to see the white outline.

And in my video of pride, I showed him fighting off 8 guys, 3 of whom could keep up with a casual bullet dodger (I could post a video later if you want), 3 more who had super strength, 2 of whom were alchemists (who are prett much like earth benders) and one of whom could literally pull stuff out of thin air. I think he can split his attention between raven and the rest of your team prett well.

Not to mention if you use to to immobilize him, that doesn't happen his shadow abilities. He doesn't need to move in order to use his shadows, that move is prett much useless

And unlike terra (most of her attacks being blunt force attacks) pride can use more stabbing attacks or use his shadows teeth for a long range attack to snap her in half (again, in the pride video)

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@joewell well if you can see the white outline, light has to be entering in order for you to see the white outline.

And in my video of pride, I showed him fighting off 8 guys, 3 of whom could keep up with a casual bullet dodger (I could post a video later if you want), 3 more who had super strength, 2 of whom were alchemists (who are prett much like earth benders) and one of whom could literally pull stuff out of thin air. I think he can split his attention between raven and the rest of your team prett well.

Not to mention if you use to to immobilize him, that doesn't happen his shadow abilities. He doesn't need to move in order to use his shadows, that move is prett much useless

Unless it was just a way to let people see what's going on. Remember this is a cartoon.

But he'll be completely encased in darkness if she uses TK on him directly, see the Slade/Raven vid.

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KnightOfZero

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#38  Edited By KnightOfZero

@joewell

Also, you can become better if you master something. Katara was labeled a water bending master at the end of season one of avatar, but she got better as the series progressed.

Giving pride the lighter won't take long. Roy tosses the lighter to pride and goes underground. By the time raven has flown up and looked around, only pride will be on the surface.

As for the quake, it will be localized to where your team is. Se won't be shaking the island, but the area you are in.

And how will you be able to hurt Roy when you are distracted by the quake? And it really only takes 1 second for toph to counter a earth ending move ( which she would know is coming via seismic sense). And it's not like the quake will instantly stop if toph stops. And even if it did, your team will be distracted even more by the sudden change in the movement of the earth (going from shaking back and forth to completely still would knock your entire team off balance)

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KnightOfZero

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#39  Edited By KnightOfZero

@Joewell Well if the lines were only there for the audience to see, then how can raven see inside? She won't know what pride is doing at all and would have no reason to suspect that pride was doing anything. She would not suspect to use tk because she has no knowledge of the lighter or any of prides abilities

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Joewell911

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@knightofzero:

0_0

I'm confused now. About everything. Wanna do a recap and open it up for voting?

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@joewell

sure. how do you want to do this? like go over everyone's abilities, or just the order of the events?

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@joewell

Alright, here is how i see the events going

1: Roy tosses his lighter to pride. Simultaneously, pride uses his super smell to find where your team is.

2: Top takes everyone underground, except pride

3: Raven has flown up after the rest of my team has gone underground and spots pride

4: The two engage

4a: Pride has shown to to be able to make 30+ shadow tendrils and it is too much for raven to handle (In your video, you say that terra was only trying to make raven mad, meaning she wasnt going all out. Terra easily would have been able to take raven if she was trying, so pride would be able to do the same with a shit tone of tendrils.

4b: Raven puts a force field around pride. Unfortunately, the white outlines that are seen by whatever is inside of the force field means that light is still entering the field. Pride uses his many shadows to break out (each one capable of easily slicing through reinforced steel). The battle ends with pride over powering raven

4c: The force field raven puts around pride does not let light in, meaning raven is unable to see what is inside of the field. Pride uses his lighter (which raven has do idea that he has) to make light inside of the field busts out with his shadows

4d: Somehow, raven traps pride and before he can get out, drops him in the fire zone in a lava pit. Raven, unaware of pride's regeneration sees no reason to stay and turns to leave, taking her attention off of pride. Pride comes out of the lava unharmed and surprises raven with a back stab she would not have expected.

4e: Raven decided to drop pride off of a cliff. she does this and removes the force field from around him as she has no reason to believe that he would be able to come back from that. She turns to leave, and as she does this, pride uses his tendrils (which have mass) to climb back up to the island and kills an unsuspecting raven.

4f: Raven tries to use telekinesis to hold pride in place. this is completely ineffective as pride does not need to move in order to use his tendrils. raven is struck down.

5: Toph, tenzin, katara and roy make their way towards your team (who at this time is unaware of the fact that they are underground)

6: Your team is walking towards the earth zone (because that is where raven told your team that is where pride was, before she was killed)

7: While walking, you are attacked by prides tendrils (which i have proven stretch for at least 112 miles). You are assaulted by his 30 plus tendrils (roughly 8 per person). Your team quickly find that bending is useless against them. Fire, air and water bending don't harm the shadows (as they do not feel pain or take damage at all), the tendrils easily break through earth bending.

this causes a problem for bumi. His primary strategy is go go insane and try and destroy everything with earthbending, hurling one giant rock after another at the problem. He is not very agile or fast (but no one who is 100+ years is). He will try and defend against the 8+ tendrils attacking him with an earth wall. Again, in my pride video, i have shown that his tendrils easily break through rock and steel, so bumi's wall will be destroyed and he subsequently will die.

Aang and Amon will do slightly better because they are in fact agile and fast (though granted the main reason amon dodged most of the attacks that came at him were because he was using telekinetic bloodbending to influence his opponents moves, so that is debatable). While they may not die out right, they will be trying to fend off (after bumi dies) 10-11 tendrils, so all of their focus will have to be on staying alive.

Ozai, again, prefers strength over speed (though he can increase his speed with his fire). he will try and blast at the tendrils with his fire (which will not result in a favorable outcome) and most likely will be overwhelmed by she sheer amount of tendril's pride can make.

8: the rest of my team has arrived and you are down 3 characters. toph causes an earth quake (which cannot be countered by a dead bumi) and it knocks amon and aang off balance

9: Virtually simultaneously, roy mustang comes out of the ground. Now, where before i said it takes him 1.25 second to snap his fingers 5 times to kill all 5 members of your team, with the fact that there are only 2 members left, he only has to snap once (he has 2 hands, so this should be very fast). Your team is still off balance from the earth quake and is not focused on roy AND are still dealing with pride's 30+ tendrils. he takes less than a half a second to snap each hand once (go ahead, time how fast you can snap, then factor in his combat training where most of his fights involved flame alchemy and him snapping to survive, then add in the fact that he is peak human). Amon and aang do not react to roy with in the .5 second time window and have their eyes scorched out.

10: The remaining 2 members of your team are on the ground, blinded, and in a shit ton of pain (having the fluids in your eyes boiled to the point where they catch fire can sting a bit). You are now going 5 v 2, blinded, unable to fight, and pride's tendrils mop up the rest of your team

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@knightofzero: Turns out I won't be able to make a recap any time soon, but we can still open it up to voting.

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#46  Edited By KnightOfZero

Fine by me

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#48  Edited By KnightOfZero
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#49  Edited By Joewell911

Me too

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I mean, I vote for @knightofzero but only because FMA people are clearly OP.... lol Pride is honestly in a league above Raven, which is unfortunate. Feel that the knight's team is gonna make it a 3v5 quickly, and Aang unbloodlusted can't solo this.