#1 Edited by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (10058 posts) - - Show Bio

KnightofZero:

  • Fire: Roy Mustang (FMA brotherhood)
  • Water: Katara
  • Air: Tenzin
  • Earth: Toph
  • Darkness: Pride (FMA brotherhood

VS

StrictlyAnime:

  • Air: Wendy Marvell
  • Earth: Jura Neekis
  • Water: Lucy Heartfilia(Using only Aquarias)
  • Darkness: Purehito (Hades)
  • Fire: Zancrow

Battle-Location: Rao'pa Sahkk(It's currently filling with water. So, yeah.)

You know how it goes, you know the rules. Debate!

#2 Posted by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (10058 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Posted by KnightOfZero (1569 posts) - - Show Bio

@strictlyanime well, i know nothing at all about your team, so I need a run down on what they can do.

In turn, i'll give you a run down of my team, in case you dont know them:

Fire

Roy mustang is a state alchemist with several years of military and combat experience under his belt. His main method of attack is flame alchemy, where he manipulates the molecules in the air to make them highly volitile and causes a spark to make the air explode. Here is an example:

Some thing else he can do is pinpoint where he wants the fire to go:

3:03-3:04: Roy snaps his fingers and burns out envy's tongue. This takes a total of 1 second for him to snap and for the fire to make contact

3:39-3:40: Roy lights the fluids in envy's eyes, blinding him

thats all for my opening with roy, but trust me, he will be one of my bigger players.

Water

I'm sure you know katara, but in case you dont, she is a powerful water manipulator. she is capable of:

  • Healing
  • Using sweat and other bodily fluids as a water source
  • Freezing water/ice manipulation
  • slicing through wood and rock with water
  • Drawing water from the air
  • Drawing water from plants

Here is an example of the last 2:

1:00: She pulls water out of the grass on the ground AND resists bloodbending

1:35: Rips water out of trees to attack hama

She is more powerful then other master waterbenders with decades more experience. She is never without water, and she can use this to her advantage. She can strike you with water from sources that you dont expect (ie, surprise attacks). And seeing as this is a water based arena (at least i think it is), she will have many opportunities to use her skill.

Earth/wind:

Im am going off of the assumption you know who toph and tenzin are, and because i am lazy and dont want to look up videos, i'll post about them later unless you want more info about them now

Darkness:

Pride's main ability is his shadow manipulation. He can turn his shadow into objects like hands and spikes:

You can see that he is capable of making limitless amounts of shadow spikes with his mind and can easily control every one.

At 7:16, you can see that he is capable of restraining Alphonse (who has super strength and limitless stamina)

At 8:10ish, you can see that the shadows are easily capable of breaking through steel

His shadows are capable of breaking through rocks, and the only reason he doesnt kill edward is because of his special metal arm made to be stronger than steel, incredibly light, and in general, very durable. Another skill he possess is the ability to kill and absorb people into himself, giving him some of their abilities. He super smell from when he killed Gluttony, meaning he can tell where you are even if he cant see you.

He also has great regeneration. As long as his philosopher stone has power, he can fully regenerate from fatal wounds to even being burned to ashes. The "power" of a philosopher stone correlates to how many souls are inside of it. Pride is the most powerful homonculus (next to Father), and because he was the first one created, he has several hundred souls inside of it, meaning, he can regenerate a lot:

#4 Edited by StrictlyAnime (893 posts) - - Show Bio

@knightofzero Wow for the like the first time ever I know every member of an opponents team, you shouldn't have to do too much in the way of scans except for when you want to talk about strategy, and anyway everything about my team members can be found below.

Wendy Marvell

As that Sky Dragon Slayer Wendy has control over wind, she can eat air and restore her strength and magical power

While she not be the best offensive fighter shes got a few combat techniques

First in the upper left panel is her Sky Dragon Wing Attack in which she surrounds her arms with twisters and hits her opponent with them

Second is the Sky Dragon Crushing Fang she hits her opponent with a cutting wind attack

Third Sky Dragon Talon, she hits her opponents with a wind powered kick

Fourth the Sky Dragon Roar, she fires a tornado like twister from her mouth

Dragon Slayer Secret Arts

Shattering Light: Sky Drill, Wendy encloses her target in a wind barrier and hits them with an air drill

Her real talent comes from her Sky Dragon's Healing Spells and other support magic.

Arms X Vernier, Arms a spell that increases the damage output of people she casts it on, and Vernier a spell that increases the speed of who ever she casts it on it also grants flight, merged together and you get Arms X Vernier

Body Anomaly Reversal Magic, Raise and

Anomaly Resistance Enchant: Re-raise

With Raise she can negate status effects placed on her and anyone else, in one of the scans she negates a binding spell

With Re-raise she can outright protect herself from any status effects such as when shes put to sleep in one of the scans.

She can also heal people and restore their magical power, she cures Erza of poison from the Poison Dragon Slayer's snake, and she heals Natsu and Makarov from their wounds, Makarov had been mortally wounded through the abdomen during his fight with Hades and wendy managed to save him

Jura Neekis

Jura is the 5th Ranks Wizard saint in fiore and is known to be the strongest human wizard in the country by all of his peers

When you get Jura you get what you came for, a battle against earth, he can freely control earth, he can bend and wrap it around, and once he traps you he'll crush you.

Here's him after the 7 year time skip, he can create large earth fists and freely control them like he does any other earth, make walls to defend himself then break them up to act as projectiles that he can guide around at the opponent. He can also create a large earth statue to defend from attacks

His physical strength is also great, he was able to take Orga down with one punch to the face, and downed Laxus with a swift chop to the head. (Note: Both Laxus and Orga are top tier in their respective guilds)

Finally we have Rumbling Mt. Fuji, and attack that sends an immense amount of magical energy up from the earth that shatters the ground beneath

Aquarius

Aquarius is a Celestial Spirit, her holder Lucy says that she is her most powerful Celestial Spirit next to Leo, water truly is her garden.

(There wasn't much use for her in round one since the stage didn't have much water, not that it does look out, you'll see later)

Her common method of attack is to whip up massive waves big enough to send yachts a distance.

She can also make a swirling Water Twister to attack her enemies.

Hades

Hades, the Master of The Grimoire Heart guild and 2nd Master of Fairy Tail (Better than Makarov)

He has chain Magic that is strong enough to move around Makarov in his giant titan form and throw him around like a rag doll

He can put up Magic Circle attacks in and instant, and can exert Magical Pressure through his hand to force someone to the ground, as you see in the final picture there

He had bullet Magic that he can shoot from his fingers

To top that he can summon up dark demons from rubble with magic called Nemesis

Zancrow

Zancrow is Fire God Slayer, he uses Fire God Slaying magic, this means hes immune to flames, he can even eat them to restore strength and magical power, he even ate Natsu's flames (Natsu is the Fire Dragon Slayer similar to Wendy in case you don't know)

Here he makes fodder out of some Grimoire Heart members he deems to be too weak

Fighting fire with fire doesn't exactly work with Zancrow either, he easily over powers Natsu and then blows him away with a roar..or Bellow of his own

Hes durable to taking Natsu's Fire Dragon punches and saying they don't hurt. His Fire God Scythe can cut through giant trees like paper, and when crushed beneath a one of the aforementioned trees and breaks through it and almost forces Natsu to send his lunch back up. Finally the Fire Gods Supper, he'll lock his target in the flames and burn them until nothing but ashes remain

#5 Posted by KnightOfZero (1569 posts) - - Show Bio

@strictlyanime Alright, i'm going to rehash my strategy from the previous round because it worked so well

I will use pride's increased sense of smell to locate where your team is.

Roy, katara, tenzin, and toph will go under ground and head towards your team.

Pride will begin to attack your team from my starting point. Now, how fare can pride's shadows reach? well i answered that in my last round, but i'll say it again for the viewers at home:

Pride masquerades as the son of the leader of Amestris and lives in central city (in the center of the map below)

This is a tunnel in either East or west city. Either way, with pride in central city, his shadows can stretch roughly 112 miles (using the scale on the map)

This is a picture showing how many shadows pride can make at any given time (and no upper limits are stated, so he can likely make more)

If you take the time to count, there are about 30 or 40 shadows. Now, each of those shadows will stretch out to where your team is. 40/5=8, so each member of your team will be dealing with 8 shadows that can rip through steel with ease and have teach that will chomp them in half attacking them at any given time.

Now, team b is moving under ground. Toph will use her seismic sense to tell where the location of your team is. While you are dealing with 40+ shadoes, an attack from the ground is the last thing on your mind, so you have no clue that any of my team mates are under ground.

Toph will then cause an earthquake on the surface to knock your team off balance. Simultaneously, roy mustang will come up from under ground and incinerate your entire team by snapping his hand. How fast can he do this? well it takes me roundly 0.5 seconds to snap once. Now take roy (who is peak human AND had to snap to survive in the Ishval war, And the fact that he can snap with both hand), and he can kill two of your team mates with in a second or less, meaning to hit all 5 of your team mates, he will snap his hands 5 times (2 or three times per hand), it will take him 2.5 seconds AT MAX to do so.

Now, take into account that your team not only is off balance from toph's earth quakes, but is also being assaulted by 8 of prides shadows, and your chances of noticing roy (who you are not expecting) and reacting to his attacks in 2.5 seconds are slim to none.

The only one who might survive is Zancrow because of his fire immunity, but by this point it is 44 v 1 (40 of prides shadows plus the other 4 members of my team) and your chances of survival are very low. Not to mention i dont think he would be immune to the liquid in his eyes being boiled, so roy can do to him what he did to envy and light his eyes on fire, blinding him and putting him in so much pain that he will be unable to fight.

Also, any nemesis creatures you create will also be a non issue. Pride can take them out easily with his shadows, plus, toph will know that they are there with her seismic sense along with how many there are. Toph can collaps the earth that they are standing on, roy can cause multiple explosions to burn them to crisps, katara can slice them with water and ice, and tenzin can push them back if needed with air

#6 Edited by StrictlyAnime (893 posts) - - Show Bio

@knightofzero

Lets get ready to rumble!!!!

Pride is going to be hard pressed to hit any of my team thanks to Wendy's Vernier spell. Everyone will be zooming around in mid air on their own. Now I'm sure your thinking "That doesn't guarantee they'll dodge all 8 of the shadows coming at each of them" Or something along those lines. Well good sir I'll prove you wrong!

Given that Pride's shadows are perceived and even dodged by a peak human like Edward Elric even the lowliest of my team (Wendy) Should have no problem dodging.

Jura

For example Jura was able to perceive, dodge and attack Jellal, a mage that moves at Hypersonic speeds

Jellal's speed below

And here Jura hits him

Wendy

Even the least experienced of my team could out maneuver missiles while using Vernier.

Hades

He was able to dodge a Gray and Erza while they were amp'd by Wendy's Vernier

There aren't any reaction feats for

  • Aquarius
  • Zancrow

But given that little Wendy can dodge missiles it would be fair to say Zancrow and Aquarius should be able to mimic at least that.

Now, team b is moving under ground. Toph will use her seismic sense to tell where the location of your team is. While you are dealing with 40+ shadoes, an attack from the ground is the last thing on your mind, so you have no clue that any of my team mates are under ground.

Now at first this seems like a good idea, because your right no one would expect an underground attack, but there's a few things you didn't consider.

  • Water will fill the hole Toph makes, but Katara could probably handle that.
  • My team has ground shattering attacks, even if we don't know 4 of your members are underground we'll still be out to get Pride.

These attacks may be aimed at Pride, but Toph and company would be caught up in the blast of these attacks, Hades' especially since it has a large area of effect, it spread across about half of Tenrou Island. The only person who would survive this is Pride because of his regeneration.

Now about that pesky Flame Alchemy

Battle-Location: Rao'pa Sahkk (It's currently filling with water. So, yeah.)

Well its going to be weakened to some degree due to the nature of our battle field.

Now Zancrow can ignite his whole body in fire showing no pain at all keeping his eyes open clear as day. He can also redirect flames towards is mouth to eat, drawing all of Natsu's fire directly to his mouth.

Even though they aren't impervious to fire the majority of my team have enough endurance to take flames casually

Wendy was able to take fiery explosives from a robotic dragon

Hades...don't get my started, I copied this from my Round 1 debate, but focus mainly on these parts

  • First Scan - He completely redirects Natsu's fire, without even touching it
  • Scans 6 - 10 Takes a triple unison raid attack from Natsu, Lucy, and Wendy.
  • Scans 11- 15 Takes Lightning Flame attacks from Natsu, even a roar that blew through the landscape of Tenrou Island.
  • Final two scans - Takes an explosive punch from Natsu

Aquarius can just straight up use water to defend herself, and Jura has earth to block the flames.

Also another point, Envy was

  1. A stationary target
  2. A big target

Mustang will be hard pressed to boil the liquid in anyone's eyes given how fast they'll be moving and how small they are.

The Point

My team members have the reaction time to see Pride's Shadows, and thanks to Wendy they all have the speed to dodge. Your underground team run the risk of being caught up in my teams attacks, being crushed by falling debris, or drown by incoming water (Toph can't swim), and my team have the means of defending against Mustang's Flame Alchemy.

#7 Edited by KnightOfZero (1569 posts) - - Show Bio

@strictlyanime i can already tell that this fight will be more fun than my last one, but lets go to the counter argument:

Given that Pride's shadows are perceived and even dodged by a peak human like Edward Elric even the lowliest of my team (Wendy) Should have no problem dodging.

eh, not quite. the reason pride doesnt outright kill edward is because he needs him alive for Father's plan. if edward died, everything would be ruined. Hence, he is holding back in that fight.

My team members have the reaction time to see Pride's Shadows, and thanks to Wendy they all have the speed to dodge.

While it would have been nice if pride could kill your team from the get go, that was never my plan. What pride is doing is distracting your team and keeping them occupied. That way, when my team pops up from under ground, your team will be caught completely off guard and be easy picking for flame alchemy. Speaking of...

Even though they aren't impervious to fire the majority of my team have enough endurance to take flames casually. Wendy was able to take fiery explosives from a robotic dragon.

Again, not quite. In that scan, she was knocked up by the explosion. She was never set on fire. Roy mustang's fire burns the target itself.

notice a lack of a line of fire going from roy to his target

Notice how the person them selves are set on fire. There is no explosion for you to dodge and it is virtually instantaneous (i showed how it takes 1 second AT MOST between roy snapping and you being lit on fire).

And lets not forget, your attention is not focused on him. Its on pride's shadows plus the earth quake toph can generate. Once roy is up, your team will be lit on fire (a very painful surprise).

Now, hades and zancrow might be able to survive, though hades will be unable to redirect the flame. why? again, this isnt fire bending where you shoot jets of flame out of your hands (though roy can do that), its an instantaneous explosion that happens right where mustang wants it. And even if zancrow eats the fire, the damage is already done. no point really.

perfect example. Go to 2:11. Notice there are no flames coming from mustang's gloves. The fiery explosion hits envy with out traveling. I highly doubt hades can redirect instantaneous explosions. Same goes for the rest of your team. They might be able to block jets of fire with water and other techniques, but here, there is just no way you can dodge. Lets look at all of the factors in play:

  • Your team is going 40 vs 5 (or 8 v 1) against Pride's shadows. All of your focus is on them
  • Toph has just made an earth quake, knocking your team off balance, distracting them and pulling their focus away from pride
  • Your team is not expecting roy to appear, and therefore, are not expecting to defend your self against him or fire in general
  • When roy does appear, you only have a 0.5-2.5 second window to react
  • The explosions are instantaneous and hit the target with out traveling, blocking any chances your had to redirect or block it

Mustang will be hard pressed to boil the liquid in anyone's eyes given how fast they'll be moving and how small they are

not really. Its not like he needs to aim and make sure you dont move. he makes the liquids in your eyes bur. He isnt sending a flame out from his hands that travels to your eyes, your eyes just boil. If you watch the previous roy vs envy video, you can see it happen. and i also proved that the explosions were instantaneous above, and so is the eye boiling. hes done it before with envy, even as a small target (in the first video), so your team (again, not expecting him) will be knocked of guard.

  • Water will fill the hole Toph makes, but Katara could probably handle that.

Really, this is a non issue. While there is a good deal of water here, it doesnt cover the whole area. Toph can easily make a hole with out fear of water filling up. The map shows area where there is no water, so toph makes a hole there (which is where i think we start), and that issue is nullified.Though you are right, katara is capable of keeping water away if it does get into the hole.

  • My team has ground shattering attacks, even if we don't know 4 of your members are underground we'll still be out to get Pride.

Toph, using seismic sense, can easily detect these attacks and ensure that my team is unharmed. She was able to detect ants moving from several yard away easily just through the vibrations they cause in the earth (my computer is being slow, so i'll post the video later). Your earth attacks would cause enough of a vibration for toph to sense it and counter it.

Example (and again, slow computer, so video will come later (seriously, it took 10 minutes to get the roy video up :P)) you do an attack that causes the earth to break. Toph senses this and bends the earth back together or keeps the tunnel from falling apart (bumi was able to through a several ton statue of Ozai several yards, and toph was EQUAL to him according to the dark horse comic Bumi vs Toph, Round 1.) Imagine her 28 years later with even more combat and training experience under her belt. She is capable of bending several tons of rock at once, so she should be able to protect my team.

Well its (flame alchemy) going to be weakened to some degree due to the nature of our battle field.

Not really. While yes, an arena with lots of water isnt my first choice for flame alchemy, it doesnt affect much. I have already shown that roy's blasts are instantaneous, so the excess water isnt going to be useful to you in blocking that. in fact, it helps my team as well. Katara will be very useful in manipulating that water.

Here we have korra going toe to toe with a waterbending master at the age of 12. She is capable of controlling and countering several giant tank fulls of water (see video for the size) and almost beat him. And keep in mind that this is book 1. Katara gets infinitly better. Bending that amount of water in the video would become a joke for her later in the series and was easily capable of taking of Firebeiding soldiers, the Dai Lee (earth bending secret police) and other threats who have had decades more combat experience and training.

Also, you know what else toph can do?

A regular earth bender could do this. Toph (who is regarded as the best earth bender when she was 12) can easily pull this off. She can suck your team into the ground and crush them with the weight of the earth (though, your earth guy might be able to resist this, but your other guys wont)

sooo...

The point

  • While you might be able to dodge pride's shadows (though again, going 8 v 1 will be a little difficult), it will take your attention off of the real threat
  • Toph and katara can counter any damage that team b might face while getting to your team
  • Toph's earth quake will distract your team even more, allowing roy to do his thing
  • Roy's explosions cannot be blocked/redirected/countered by any of your teammates as it is simply too fast, does not need to travel and hits the target its self, and you are not expecting him
#8 Edited by StrictlyAnime (893 posts) - - Show Bio

@knightofzero

eh, not quite. the reason pride doesnt outright kill edward is because he needs him alive for Father's plan. if edward died, everything would be ruined. Hence, he is holding back in that fight.

Fair point, but Pride did say something along the lines of "It wouldn't be too bad if I cut off a limb or two" So I would think he was going at Ed full force.

Again, not quite. In that scan, she was knocked up by the explosion. She was never set on fire. Roy mustang's fire burns the target itself.

Bam! She was set directly on fire by Zancrow (Hes kind of a dick) shes the one right below the "Kya" sound bubble, seen later perfectly fine trying to save Natsu and Makarov.

Notice how the person them selves are set on fire. There is no explosion for you to dodge and it is virtually instantaneous (i showed how it takes 1 second AT MOST between roy snapping and you being lit on fire).

And lets not forget, your attention is not focused on him. Its on pride's shadows plus the earth quake toph can generate. Once roy is up, your team will be lit on fire (a very painful surprise).

Now, hades and zancrow might be able to survive, though hades will be unable to redirect the flame. why? again, this isnt fire bending where you shoot jets of flame out of your hands (though roy can do that), its an instantaneous explosion that happens right where mustang wants it. And even if zancrow eats the fire, the damage is already done. no point really.

Go to 1:05, there a very clear line that forms before the explosion goes off, Wrath was able to dodge with while injured and without the Ultimate Eye.

Toph has just made an earth quake, knocking your team off balance, distracting them and pulling their focus away from pride

My counter for Toph's earthquake is Aquarius.

She has fish legs (MERMAIDS EXIST!) So when shes over land she levitates above the ground, an E-quake can't effect someone who's off the earth. The minute Toph does it she and anyone close to her will be blasted with one of Aquarius' Tsunamis

Also wouldn't the majority of your team also be effected by the earthquake?

Example (and again, slow computer, so video will come later (seriously, it took 10 minutes to get the roy video up :P)) you do an attack that causes the earth to break. Toph senses this and bends the earth back together or keeps the tunnel from falling apart (bumi was able to through a several ton statue of Ozai several yards, and toph was EQUAL to him according to the dark horse comic Bumi vs Toph, Round 1.) Imagine her 28 years later with even more combat and training experience under her belt. She is capable of bending several tons of rock at once, so she should be able to protect my team.

Oooh! your using Adult Toph? I need to start paying attention to the pictures.

While Toph can keep the earth from falling in on top of everyone that wont stop the actual attack from hitting them.

Not really. While yes, an arena with lots of water isnt my first choice for flame alchemy, it doesnt affect much. I have already shown that roy's blasts are instantaneous, so the excess water isnt going to be useful to you in blocking that. in fact, it helps my team as well. Katara will be very useful in manipulating that water.

Aquarius can draw water into her Urn, so anything Katara throws Aquarius can use, and If I remember correctly Katara's water bending feats haven't reached massive wave summoning yet (But do correct me if I'm wrong)

A regular earth bender could do this. Toph (who is regarded as the best earth bender when she was 12) can easily pull this off. She can suck your team into the ground and crush them with the weight of the earth (though, your earth guy might be able to resist this, but your other guys wont)

You underestimate the raw blast power my team has my friend.

  • Aquarius levitates so pulling her into the ground isn't happening
  • Jura can solidify the earth thus saving himself from this situation, either that or straight up bend the earth
  • Hades and Zancrow, the can straight up blast themselves free. Zancrow punched through a giant tree log and I've shown how Hades' power can wreck the ground below.
  • Wendy... 1:40 - 2:17 renders Toph's Earthquake and Ground sinking completely irrelevant. Vernier grants flight...Oh and sorry if your left ear feels lonely XD

The Point

Roy Mustang's Flame Alchemy is not instant, there is a very clear line that follows his snap, that was dodged by Wrath (I'm aware of how OP Wrath is) but he was still injured and didn't have his Ultimate Eye. So I see it like this 1 person gets hit (Better hope it isn't Zancrow) and everyone is on high alert for both Pride's Shadows and Roy's Alchemy, and it won't take long for someone (Hades or Zancrow) To charge Mustang with the full intention of killing him. Wendy's Vernier gives everyone flight and keeps them safe from Toph who at this point is useless since she can't "see" them in mid air, and I'm almost sure Aquarius can out water bend Katara.

Killing the members of your team shouldn't take much as they are all glass cannons (Except Pride)

Your move :D

#9 Posted by StrictlyAnime (893 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by KnightOfZero (1569 posts) - - Show Bio

@strictlyanime

Sorry, my laptop has a virus, so I'm using my iPad (where I can't post some of my videos). I'll try and get my next post up soon

#11 Posted by KnightOfZero (1569 posts) - - Show Bio

@strictlyanime

for that one instant, yes, there was a line of fire coming from roy's glove. He can do that. However, i have shown that on more than 1 occasion, there doesnt need to be a line. This can be seen in the roy vs lust and roy vs envy fight where the explosion happens where he wants it.

This attack just hit lust, and there is absolutely no line of fire going from roy to lust. It just hit lust. ie, instantaneous

Also, i have shown in those same videos that the blast hits his targets in under 1 second. Roy vs Wrath was straight PSI because they needed him for the ritual to occur. (not to mention roy had just fought all of the failed attempts of making wrath (11 in total), and beat some of them so im going to cut him some slack) So that argument is invalid because he has demonstrated the speed of his explosions to be 1 second or less on more than 1 occasion.

Bam! She was set directly on fire by Zancrow (Hes kind of a dick) shes the one right below the "Kya" sound bubble, seen later perfectly fine trying to save Natsu and Makarov.

Actually, in this scan, she doesnt look "perfectly fine". she looks incredibly tried (notice how she is breathing heavily) and she looks incapable of fighting. While there might not be any damage like burns on her, she is still being hit by an explosion, which will still cause damage. Now imagine several of those coming at her every second if she is not immediately incinerated. not just one blast, but multiple. Can she or any of your other members take that (well, zancrow is an exception).

Not to mention, boiling the liquids in everyone's eyes is still an option. Your team can still be blinded, and by that point, it will be a very one sided match.

Floating/flying is an advantage that your team has. However, my team is fully aware that you are present. So what pride can do is force your team to to ground (ie, use his shadows to make you move towards the ground) and when you touch the ground, toph will know exactly where your team is.

also, what is the extent of everyone's flying capabilities?

As for the earth quake, they way it is going to work is Toph will make it and at the same time, my team (who know that this is coming) will be shot up to the surface.

Also, toph will be able to protect my team from any of your earth based attacks. In book 3 episode 19 of avatar, bumi was seen throwing a several ton statue of ozai. Considering toph was equal to him in strength when she was 12, by the time she is 40, she would be far beyond him in terms of strength, meaning she will be able to control several tons of earth at once to block/counter any of your earth based attacks (i'd post the video, but comicvine doesnt know the video site im using, so check out 9:25 here: http://www.nwanime.com/avatar-book-3-episode-19/video/f88cdbe57368daaa688f.

Also, tenzin can make air blades that can cut through rock and make spheres of wind that can send your attacks back as you, as well as use air blasts to knock your team back. Basicly, he is going to be a more defensive role, protecting my team by intercepting your attacks and knocking your team mates around (assuming they survive roy's initial rapage, which they wont)

Also, if i wanted to, i could have katara use bloodbending on one of your team mates to completely shut down one of your members. i'll get into this more if i need to.

Lastly, do any of your team mates have metal on them? because toph can easily use that to her advantage (example, hades appears to have a metal helmet. Toph can crush that hemlet and subsequently, crush hades)

#12 Edited by StrictlyAnime (893 posts) - - Show Bio

@knightofzero

for that one instant, yes, there was a line of fire coming from roy's glove. He can do that. However, i have shown that on more than 1 occasion, there doesnt need to be a line. This can be seen in the roy vs lust and roy vs envy fight where the explosion happens where he wants it.

There was a line, every single time.

Actually, in this scan, she doesnt look "perfectly fine". she looks incredibly tried (notice how she is breathing heavily) and she looks incapable of fighting. While there might not be any damage like burns on her, she is still being hit by an explosion, which will still cause damage. Now imagine several of those coming at her every second if she is not immediately incinerated. not just one blast, but multiple. Can she or any of your other members take that (well, zancrow is an exception).

Not to mention, boiling the liquids in everyone's eyes is still an option. Your team can still be blinded, and by that point, it will be a very one sided match.

Wendy's Sky Dragon Healing spells always tired her during the pre-time skip, shes heavily breathing because shes trying too hard to heal Natsu and Makarov not because of what Zancrow did to her. Carla implied she was putting a lot of her Sky Magic into healing.

Floating/flying is an advantage that your team has. However, my team is fully aware that you are present. So what pride can do is force your team to to ground (ie, use his shadows to make you move towards the ground) and when you touch the ground, toph will know exactly where your team is.

My team will be raining down hell in the form of God Slayer flames from Zancrow, Sky Dragon Roars from Wendy, Amaterasu Formula 100 from Hades and Waves of water from Aquarius. Meanwhile Jura can raise earth pillars under or around your team to throw off their balance and positioning.

As for the earth quake, they way it is going to work is Toph will make it and at the same time, my team (who know that this is coming) will be shot up to the surface.

How is shooting them up to the surface going to save them from feeling the effects of an earthquake?

Also, toph will be able to protect my team from any of your earth based attacks. In book 3 episode 19 of avatar, bumi was seen throwing a several ton statue of ozai. Considering toph was equal to him in strength when she was 12, by the time she is 40, she would be far beyond him in terms of strength, meaning she will be able to control several tons of earth at once to block/counter any of your earth based attacks (i'd post the video, but comicvine doesnt know the video site im using, so check out 9:25 here: http://www.nwanime.com/avatar-book-3-episode-19/video/f88cdbe57368daaa688f.

Here's the thing though, Jura > Bumi and Toph put together. The video below demostrates this all the was through 3:18

Toph has never seismic sense'd something as fast and free as Jura's Earth Bending, he throws up earth columns faster than anything Toph has dealth with.

Toph can't sense things that aren't touching the ground, how can she see Jura's flying earth blocks

Also, tenzin can make air blades that can cut through rock and make spheres of wind that can send your attacks back as you, as well as use air blasts to knock your team back. Basicly, he is going to be a more defensive role, protecting my team by intercepting your attacks and knocking your team mates around (assuming they survive roy's initial rapage, which they wont)

Attempting to knock my team around with air is going to result in Wendy getting herself a meal.

Also, if i wanted to, i could have katara use bloodbending on one of your team mates to completely shut down one of your members. i'll get into this more if i need to.

No you couldn't, you'd have to assume there's a full moon, which is simply too much speculation given that full moons occur once every month, give or take a few days. We also don't know if this match is taking place during the day, based off the picture, day.

Lastly, do any of your team mates have metal on them? because toph can easily use that to her advantage (example, hades appears to have a metal helmet. Toph can crush that hemlet and subsequently, crush hades)

Toph has to be close to do that, which I doubt she could do. If she did you might as well start writing her will to Lin

I feel I should show you exactly how strong Hades is, hes probably even stronger than current Jura.

1:42 - 4:11: Takes everything Team Natsu has without getting a scratch

7:05 - 9:48: He starts destroying Team Natsu without so much as moving a foot from his current position, he essentially beats them with two of his fingers (Bullet Magic) Natsu would have been the first to die if Laxus hadn't show up

19:45 - 21:43 Taking attacks from Natsu being powered up from Laxus' lightning, and that roar.

34:05 - 35:05 - Gonna show exactly what the dirt demons do, Team Natsu needed pure undeniable PIS to save them here.

My point is here I'm doubting anything Katara, Toph, or Tenzin do will even hurt Hades, hes taking far worse than anything they have and hes gotten right back up.

Mustang could probably only beat him via blinding of the eyes, which I doubt Mustang could do because of Vernier, Mustang again like Edward is a peak human character as far as physical stats go, his reflexes shouldn't allow him to keep up with Hades or anyone.

#13 Posted by KnightOfZero (1569 posts) - - Show Bio

@strictlyanime

Yet, there was no line during his fight with envy. And again, this happens so fast that none of your team would be able to react to any of roy's attacks. I have shown that roys attacks take a second at most to make contact. You have to react to such a small amount of flame in such a short amount of time that i highly doubt that hades or zancrow will be able to react to the rest of your team getting their eyes burned out.

They might be durable, but moves like roy burning their eyes out or toph crushing the metal that they have on their bodies will still do severe damage.

i wont be able to post much more than this. i'm getting my computer fixed and my ipad is a very shitty device to try and post comments on. good luck to you in voting. This was very fun and you made it challenging. and may the best man win

#14 Posted by StrictlyAnime (893 posts) - - Show Bio

@knightofzero

I'll just throw up a final overview, you should do the same if you make it back in time, voting stops at 6:30 (I'm assuming Atlantic/Eastern time)

I strongly disagree with you saying my team can't react to the Flame Alchemy. Remember Jura reacted to Jellal who is clearly hypersonic, also Flame Alchemy being dodged by Wrath wasn't PIS, Wrath is a casual bullet timer without the Ultimate Eye so I'm sure at the very least Hades, Jura, and Zancrow could take Mustang.

Also everyone is flying around at high speed, faster than Roy's Reflexes should allow him to keep up with, so he'd be lucky to hit them with flame alchemy, especially if hes aiming for something as small as their eyes, I think it did make a difference that Envy was such a big target for Mustang to light up, Mustang himself ever called Envy an idiot for getting bigger, implying that the bigger his target the easy his job. Coupled with the fact that my team are firing attacks all of which could easily KO/Kill your team in 1-2 hits. (Again excluding Pride)

If that's not enough I'll just point out one thing, Wendy's Nose. As a Dragon Slayer shes got a real good sense of smell, when your team resurfaces it shouldn't take long for her to smell them out. Instantly alerting her of the danger. Below she smells a sniper from quite a distance

Toph can't crush Hades' helmet if she A) Can't catch/"see" him B) When he can blast her away via his Magic Circles, also Bullet Magic could severly damage your team the same way it did to Team Natsu.

Aquarius and Jura will also throw everyone off with Earth Columns and Waves of water

Jura can potentially crush members of your team with his earth columns, even Toph wouldn't "see" this coming in time.

Pride is a more difficult case. Jura can crush him thus incapacitating him for some time, and if Zancrow locks him in the Fire God's Supper he'll be in a rough position, similar to what Mustang did to Lust.

And this has been fun, I think you're like my what...6th or 7th debating opponent, and good luck to you too...I just hope we get more than two votes on this one -_- A victory doesn't feel like a real one if only two votes are given, at least as far as I care.

#15 Edited by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (10058 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting is open~

#16 Posted by KingOfAsh (3611 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Posted by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio

@strictlyanime: @the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk: my votes to StrictlyAnime. good job bro its nice to see a new guy rise up from the ashes and debate well. superb job.

Striclyanime i have good news and bad news

Good News

you got my vote

Bad News

i have to beat you in a debate just to prove my superiority (ya know if you arent to busy RPGing with a guy named Barry ;)

expect a challenge soon!

#19 Posted by KnightOfZero (1569 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Edited by StrictlyAnime (893 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: Thank you good sir. Now I have some good news and bad news for you myself

Good News

I'd gladly accept your challenge

Bad News

#21 Posted by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio
#22 Posted by SPICYGUSBUS (23 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm voting for @knightofzero. I strongly disagree with the idea that Adult Katara and Toph are getting beaten just because 80% of their lives were not covered in Avatar. All these one shots are mute to me. Everyone always goes for one-shots on comic vine. I don't think either team has capability to one-shot the other. I honestly think this would in actuality be a drawn out fight in which Pride's shadows give Knight the killing blow - @strictlyanime doesn't have the reflexes on his team to fight a 4v5 with those deadly shadows flying around. I know Knight wanted to get killing blows with Roy, but I agree with Strictly's analysis of Roy's ability - however I doubt that his team would topple Knight's in just a straight up melee with Pride's support.

#23 Posted by GodTriggerHulk (1998 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Edited by Jgames (1686 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting for strictlyanime, stronger arguement and team

#25 Posted by StrictlyAnime (893 posts) - - Show Bio

2-3 Votes

Close competitions are the best kind

#26 Edited by JuliantheApostate (52 posts) - - Show Bio

It's nervous to vote in such close competitions but I've read the thread and made a desicion.

The whole fight seem to @knightofzero had strong aggressive moves and @strictlyanime countering them. I had a sense of pace towards knightofzero.

No side could demonstrate a significant advantage in blast power(arguments and scans by both sides)

But the argument of Roy line if it was instant or not was central, but I feel knightofzero defended it better (and again strictlyAnime had a less difined plan)

Overall good fight, hard to vote but it's going to Knightofzero

#27 Posted by StrictlyAnime (893 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Posted by darkseid1006 (2515 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Posted by Pierpat (2671 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote for @knightofzero, great debate tough, it was really a hard choice.

#30 Posted by KnightOfZero (1569 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9418 posts) - - Show Bio