Forerunners vs Protoss, Galactic Empire, and Vong!

Forerunners; Power is before the flood war, but technology up until the end of the flood war.

vs

Protoss; Before the first Civil War.

Galactic Empire; Overall Height.

Yuuzhan Vong; Right before they invaded the star wars galaxy.

Rules

1. No In fighting.
2. Win by destroying the other side.
3. No prep.
4. No prior knowledge.
5. Halo galaxy.
6. No morals.
7. Standard leadership.
8. No outside interference; aka the flood and so on.

Halo Galaxy; All planets the Empire and the Protoss had put on one side, all planets the forerunner had put onto another.

People whom might be interested,

@the_caped_crusader: @killerwasp: @savageslayer: @mightythunderbird: @penderor:@eisenfauste: @pern: @thenaughtytitan: @kingant27: @agentghostrider: @ssj2gohan: @leo-343: @acrokat: @boringperson: @lettsplay10: @citizensentry: @merulezall:@andreysemyonov1337:@baztet:@jwwprod@detrolord@harbingerofmomz@dedmanwalkin@vortex14@traskindustries@tularianroman@thekillerklok@conduitreaper

Forerunners win.

Forerunners win once again.

The forerunners were incredibly advanced and did they not have telekinesis as well? The one in halo 4 made Chief look stupid. From what I know about the Vong they aren't affected by the force, but seeing as the forerunners don't use the force, they wouldn't have the same immunity. I'll have to give it to the forerunners, but I will admit I don't know much about the Star Wars extended universe so I could be wrong. I say the Vong go out first, then the Protoss, then the empire, although the Protoss might be able to beat out the empire. Either way I still think the forerunners take it.

@jwwprod: dont even give us that line jwwprod!!! U know how many times star wars walks all over other sci fis and warhammer! XD Give halo some respect peasant! XD

Forerunners steamroll

@jwwprod: @killerwasp: @eisenfauste: Reasons?

GE can't handle their weapons at all in space or on the ground. Heck they could just teleport a single warrior caste forerunner onto a star destroyer and he would kill everyone there.

Protoss get wrecked because they don't have really good durability and forerunners are simply way more powerful and far more numerous than they are

Yuuzhan vong ships can't handle hard light, and if their dovin basals "seem" too difficult to bypass, they won't be, then they teleport troops onto the ships and utterly slaughter the vong.

@eisenfauste: Mhhh I thought the Protoss Empire was quite big, not what you see in Starcraft or Starcraft 2 but bigger. How do they get past TP attacks and TK attacks?

@aressword: Protoss are in just one sector and the humans have given them trouble before. Forerunners span the galaxy and have billions if not trillions of individuals. Protoss get drowned. If I recall forerunners have used TP before or something like it. Not to mention the protoss don't spam that kind of attack

Most of their ships would get one shotted in space so its irrelevant.

@eisenfauste: I recall their empire being bigger, as I said this was their height humans weren't even around. Also they will cause they have no morals. Not debating for one side or another, only requesting and such. Any feats to back up though that they are indeed TP and TK resistant along with how they one shot the protoss ships? Imperials have 22,000 ships at their command IIRC vong are around that. Any proof to support that the forerunners got a bigger fleet and how they will be able to kill them with well the ease that you are stating?

@aressword: The fact that they have millions of worlds that are referenced in the first book Cryptum and during the flood war it was mentioned the grave mind fought the forerunners with fleets of thousands.

Not to mention forerunners can and have made ships in minutes that could very well apply here.

Also even if the forerunners didn't have the ships, they have comparable numbers at least, they have weapons to bust planets on all their capital ships. This doesn't include dreadnoughts which are basically flying deathstars.

If all it took was several shots from a human fusion cannon to bust holes in a protoss ship. Forerunner hardlight weapons will go through it like a wet tissue through paper.

It comes down to waaay better tech, comparable numbers, and like I said way better tech.

Forerunners could also bust solar systems without a problem, they could just run into a fleet drop a device to bust a star and leave totally obliterating the enemy fleet.

@eisenfauste: Thousands? You do realize this can range from 2,000 to 900,000 right? Do we got numbers at least? I dont got the halo books which is why I'm asking you.

But do we have proof that hardlight hits harder? We've seen some mass effect weapons do some cool stuff, this doesn't mean by fancy names or something along the lines of that equal it will go through. Have we seen forerunner power displayed?

Do we have proof of them busting stars in combat?

I apologize for these questions, but it helps me make better matches for the future.

Forerunners

Forerunners win.

Protoss are severely nerfed, but even if they weren't they wouldn't be much of anything considering their intensely small number... unless this is morals off Golden Age of Expansion Protoss that have literally all of their Motherships at their disposal.

I know everyone's already heard my intense mass planet glassing strat for morals off Protoss though.

@boringperson: He said before their first civil war which makes protoss golden age lol, and they got no morals. lol.

lol I guess it does...

Protoss win by teleporting their entire fleet of motherships to each planet controlled by the Forerunners and instaglassing it with hundreds of motheships and thousands of capital class carriers... (a half dozen normal carriers only take about as many hours to glass a planet with surgical precision)

I guess it doesn't hurt to mention that canonically Motherships can still create timewarps and singularities?

Terran scientists outright state in Wings of Liberty flavor text that they have no idea why the Protoss don't just slaughter everyone with their teleportation/wyrmhole/perpetual motion machine tech.

@boringperson: thats gonna be a long time. No prior knowledge and the forerunners got galactic scale travel as well. They also got hundreds of thousands of warships as well, that are on par with mother ships, but meh.

@aressword: They blew up a star in a solar system because the flood were taking them over both in battles and simply engulfing planets so yes in combat they can do this.

But do we have proof that hardlight hits harder

It's enough to tear through shields that can defend against planet busting attacks. Albeit at multiple shots, when it comes to forerunner shields at least....

Have we seen forerunner power displayed?

Teleportation across multiple locations. Creating lvl 10 combat skins, mechs that can destroy continents, drone planets that could no sell the attacks from every single enemy in this battle at one time, galaxy wiping machines, making ships in minutes, genetically recreating every species that was to be wiped out etc.

Their power is ridiculous and that's not even touching the floodcursers or whatever that are OP as f*ck from what I hear.

I'm aware of numbers, but they engaged in a galactic wide battle and have millions to billions of planets in their control. Having a tonne of ships is their modus operandi. A direct number crunch is hard @killerwasp may have more on numbers I'm not sure. He is more knowledgeable about them than I am.

@eisenfauste: what is the question aressword is wanting to know?

@killerwasp: How many ships the forerunners have. I know they have fleets of thousands and they have a galaxy full of people so I can only assume they have a crap tonne of ships, but I have no solid numbers.

Do you know?

@eisenfauste: Numbers of ships within the fleets vary depending the fleet, the forerunners have a responding quick fleet kinda like the Imp's PDF, and then they have their actual military fleet which does this down below,

Anyway fleets can range from, from a few hundred to a few million.

(00:H 00:M 00:S) The (Halo effect) strikes our combined fleets. All ships piloted by biologicals are now (adrift). I can trade Mendicant ship for ship now and still prevail.​

(00:H 00:M 01:S) Of my ships that had been captured, 11.3 percent of them are close enough to Mendicant's core fleet that they can be used offensively - either by initiating their self-destruct sequences, or by opening unrestricted ruptures into (slipstream space). It is best that our crews perished now; because the battle that is a bout to ensue would have driven them mad.

(00:H 00:M 02:S) I throw away all the rules of acceptable conduct during battle; near the ruptures I throw away all the accepted ideas of how the natural world is supposed to behave. I toss around (37,654 tonne) dreadnoughts like they were fighters; dimly aware of the former crews being crushed to liquescence.

For now all my concentration is focused on inertial control and navigation. Targeting isn't even a consideration - I will be engaging my enemy at arm's length.

Take note he is tossing them like they are nothing, he can now trade blow for blow with Mendicant Bias as well, and had well over a million ships, granted not every ship was a military ship, but what makes this a note is that the person telling us ( offensive bias IIRC ) this is defending a war zone meaning that every ship of his is a military ship part of the military fleet part of the forerunner grand navy. Anyway, forerunners should win since well both mend and offensive bias's are in the fight. As I said there is no note of how big the forerunner fleet is, but well just pray it doesn't go to ground either, cause well forerunners wreck ground as well. LOL.

"The atmosphere below was a swirling soup of smoke and fire. Warrior craft and automated weapon systems were too small to be visible, but I saw their effects—darting beams of needle light, glowing arcs cutting across continents, gigantic, stamplike divots punched into the crust and then lifted up, spun about, overturned."

Bear, Greg (2011-01-04). Halo: Cryptum: Book One of the Forerunner Saga (Kindle Locations 2714-2715). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

Lets also note that the flood can infect worlds really fast IIRC 9 hours not counting heavy fortresses guarded by things like this ^ and furthermore do note on one planet alone, 1,318,797 citizens and 42,669 military were evactuated before the flood took over in less or around 32 hours for the whole planet and all local areas outside of fortresses and such were gonna fall in 9 hours, this was also .0006% of the TOTAL population of an outer planet I do believe.

Anything else?

@killerwasp: Dang lol, naw that should be good.

@eisenfauste: do note those are the forerunner war sphinx during the forerunner-human war which means as I said seekers do more, quote about the seekers lets remind ourselves once more,

Into my narrowing point of view came three powerful, fully operational seekers— longer, sleeker, versions of the Didact’s old war sphinxes. They lacked the scowling features of the older machines—depersonalized, dark, fast. One of them cut through the new-grown walls and circled behind us, then dropped aft, penetrating interior bulkheads, searching for other occupants. Through shredded layers of ship’s decking, I watched it release the war sphinxes— only to smash them like toys, slice them into sections, and then reduce those to sparking dust.

Bear, Greg (2011-01-04). Halo: Cryptum: Book One of the Forerunner Saga (p. 195). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

As I said eisen!!! Seekers pwn War sphinxes! lol.

and lets all not forget if all else fails time to set off some stars

It soon became clear to the Forerunners that ordinary naval tactics would prove fruitless in stemming the mounting infection. They decided their only hope of defeating the parasitic swarm would be to create even more lethal weaponry. At first, robotic drones were sent to battle and contain the Flood onslaught using surgical, localized tactics. Soon after, the Forerunner Fleet Command considered “premature stellar collapses,” by which a supernova would be triggered by a naval battle group, engulfing a planetary system and preventing any possible risk of Flood infection.

Halo Encyclopedia; pg. 169

huehue lol.

But seriously hes lucky this isnt a ground fight even the basic forerunner soldier carries constraint fields which can easily pin soldiers from the enemy side and gives the forerunners the ability to shoot them in the head lol.

Constraint shields? I know they would curb on the ground, a single warrior caste forerunner would wreck almost anyone on the battle.

@eisenfauste: constraint fields, example down below from the book,

Where I was intercepted by a guard, who spun me into a constraint field.

Bear, Greg (2011-01-04). Halo: Cryptum: Book One of the Forerunner Saga (p. 303). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

Turns out to be the master builder's soldier or guard XD

@killerwasp: Dude that's sweet, I didn't know that. NOW THEY ABSOLUTELY CURBSTOMP

lol

@eisenfauste: think that's bad I can't wait to see who wins Didact vs anyone but sidious on the battlefield lol. Didact already took a weapon to the eye, and didn't give a crap, has already been vaporized twice and still lives IIRC.

@killerwasp: Dude where the eff did you get that scan from?

@eisenfauste: The Halo Escalation series >:D

@killerwasp: Dude is it good

@eisenfauste: yes and no it's got its stupid moments, but since u favor the UNSC more than anyone else you'd like it XD

@killerwasp: How expensive is it?

@eisenfauste: can range from 3 dollars or so through just avg sites to like 15 dollars on amazon. However, its been out quite a bit I bet u can just find someone displaying it online on like youtube or something.

@killerwasp: Noice I may have to look into it.

Protoss basically live forever anyways.

That's the thing, morals off Protoss have no reason to ever engage. Just show up with the entire fleet, glass almost instantly and then leave just a quickly as they came.

Recall transit is highly selective, literally instant, and generally covered by cloaking tech.

Can't be caught. Can't be engaged. Can't be starved or beaten in attrition (perpetual motion machines that output more than is input). They don't even need a planet or outside resources to sustain them. What do you even do against them?

In a pitched battle they lose to the Forerunners every time... but why would the Protoss ever stay for a pitched battle?

@boringperson: Because the protoss wouldn't just suddenly show up at forerunner places, and as far as they are concerned they got two other allies. If the forerunners can't catch them they simply activate the halo array do realize no morals goes both ways. Even with the flood there they still had morals, they still had in fighting and so on. Forerunners fought for 300 years against the flood right after a human war that protoss can barely handle 7 years ( IIRC against anyone else ) with morals. Now you got a no morals didact with a no morals master builder. On top of that as I said forerunners are literally 3 million worlds strong and then more because it was even pointed out that this was even incorrect for the forerunners were still secretly growing. The galaxy isn't split in half on even planets, he said all planets that belong to those factions are on one side and then all the others are put onto another. The GE is almost useless and same with the vong ( sidious and vader don't make it totally useless along with some decent staff. ) This doesn't mean humans of the empire are going to out smart them this means they can provide some resistance before going down. Forerunners also can shape worlds and bring life to them along with make their own worlds to store food, water, etc. The didact lived quite a bit of time forerunners can do so its almost impossible to do remove them from the galaxy. Because they were storing tons of stuff within slipspace that the protoss couldn't even imagine.

Point is, as fast as the protoss can glass the forerunners would of already fixed the planet to put life on it again, and created more worlds whether they are shield worlds or simply real planets. Protoss don't stand much of a chance either.

Most of that I basically agree with, I just don't see how no morals adds anything to Forerunner capabilities, whereas morals off for the Protoss opens up their playbook dramatically. Activation of Halo arrays requires the Protoss to be stationary and in galaxy/30kish iirc light years. Halo arrays also only kill things through targeted radiation, iirc, and are limited by lightspeed... so they should pose little to no threat to the Protoss unless they are harshly outsmarted.

The Forerunners have no out and out way to kill or stop the Protoss if they're being purposefully evasive.

The Protoss with morals off could also just teleport singularities into the cores of planets and then just leave, which would be much faster than glassing, would require only a single Mothership and a recall squadron.

The Forerunners need raw materials to survive on a basic level, the Protoss just don't. At some point, you run out of planets... theoretically.

I mean, the Forerunners probably don't out and out lose for a very, very long time. But the Protoss have attrition in their favor. Even if that attrition takes ten thousand years (less than a single generation of Protoss).

I was also under the assumption that troop levels were to stay constant... if the Protoss are allowed free reign to start *ahem* cultivating mass, then things change drastically.

@boringperson:

Most of that I basically agree with, I just don't see how no morals adds anything to Forerunner capabilities, whereas morals off for the Protoss opens up their playbook dramatically. Activation of Halo arrays requires the Protoss to be stationary and in galaxy/30kish iirc light years. Halo arrays also only kill things through targeted radiation, iirc, and are limited by lightspeed... so they should pose little to no threat to the Protoss unless they are harshly outsmarted.

Because the no morals means the didact gets to do what he wants which is spam whatever he wants. You forget the forerunners were literally handicapping themselves to the flood because they didn't want to wipe all life out, they used different ways to try and end the flood, but in the end had to use the rings, so with no morals the forerunners will use them if they feel they are in the slightest bit of danger and with the didact able to spam the worlds, they have the ability to simply mass produce. The forerunners weren't even really a species bent on war, they made stuff to fight the ancient human empire because of what they did. In the end even the humans were spared, but as shown before if the didact is in command no one lives, no one sleeps, no one does anything! XD Uh where did u get the light speed from??? They wiped the galaxy in seconds.... Thats above light speed. Forerunners travel above light speed. Protoss are limited to a sector I'd like feats to show how fast a protoss vessel can cross the galaxy.

The Forerunners have no out and out way to kill or stop the Protoss if they're being purposefully evasive.

Uh they got sensors that can at least scan a light years away and give us the content, with morals off its just an ambush waiting to happen. Once more you're counting on the protoss going straight for this, even if they do the protoss can be put down, slowly but it wont take much time for them to begin new measures against a foe.

The Protoss with morals off could also just teleport singularities into the cores of planets and then just leave, which would be much faster than glassing, would require only a single Mothership and a recall squadron.

The Forerunners need raw materials to survive on a basic level, the Protoss just don't. At some point, you run out of planets... theoretically.

I mean, the Forerunners probably don't out and out lose for a very, very long time. But the Protoss have attrition in their favor. Even if that attrition takes ten thousand years (less than a single generation of Protoss).

Nope, Forerunners would stomp unless I see travel speed they aren't doing what you are suggesting. If this was a 1 on 1, yes they are going to die horribly. Also once more forerunners got time objects and honestly have machines to take over that can create tons. Also protoss hit a shield world they die. Forerunners can grow crops easily just fine and so on. They've got almost unlimited resources protoss are limited.

I was also under the assumption that troop levels were to stay constant... if the Protoss are allowed free reign to start *ahem* cultivating mass, then things change drastically.

He said all planets and so on, the whole time is on the other side, we can scan faster, and do stuff quite faster than the protoss can. I mean poo the didact scanned a world and ended it quite quicky with a pulse of all life lol. As I said planets like Onyx with defenses are gonna catch the protoss by surprise and as always forerunners can be put in chambers to hang there forever.

@killerwasp: Protoss have boring speed feats. Their ships aren't fast, it's just that warp transit is literally instant in all instances that it's been shown. Though it should generally be noted that they are FTL and the Moratun Mothership had been traveling at highspeed for more than a couple centuries years and received a distress call from Aiur and warped there instantly. Motherships are known for sharing warp fields as well. (It also kind of implies that Protoss communications tech may be slower than their travel tech.)

Protoss warp transit traditionally implies Arbiter based travel meaning they'll be warping in with activated cloak fields or just hardwarping in observation vessels before jumping into the fray.

Lack of knowledge is confusing to me. They know their enemies exist, but not where?

I mean, what does that even mean? I guess the Vong and GE are completely useless in that case... like a couple thousand planets (high balling) vs what 3 million+?

I still doubt the Forerunners can stamp out the Protoss with morals off, but I am confused as to the OP's knowledge of the Forerunners in general...

Feels like a brick and two street levelers vs a powerhouse.

That's what I've been trying to say lol except the forerunners more like a higher powerful house you can consider this like a-bomb with two bricks vs supes.

If they have end of Flood-War tech couldn't the Forerunners just fire the halos while in shield worlds then emerge later when all sentient life was completely wiped away?

@theredheadedyeti: Yes which is what I've been saying, if they wanted to they could of completed the 12 rings all together instead of 7 and then fired it to make sure no one lives possibly even outside the galaxy as well lol.

@killerwasp: That's what I assumed. Thank you for the confirmation, the Forerunners are just too powerful.

Do the Forerunners ever lose a battle on CV?

Forerunners vs DC/Marvel combined, plz.

@mije_101: Is that a serious question?.....

@theredheadedyeti: Eh not really, for this fight yes, but overall their only a mid tier sci fi faction.