Floopay's Challenge: Anti-Heroes vs. Idealists

What is Floopay's Challenge?

Normally when I create threads, I try my best not to actually debate in them. In these threads, however, I will actually be debating. I will be making fair fights (as fair as I can find) and picking a side to debate with.

That being said. When you enter this thread you may feel free to debate for whichever character you like. Regardless of whether or not it's the character I've chosen to debate in defense of.

Why make this?

For those of you who don't know, I don't read much Marvel/DC these days. As a result, many of the characters I've grown fond of, I just can't make threads for. Mainly because most people haven't really heard of them, or have any real knowledge of what these characters can do. I find this will be a great way to debate against some of ComicVine's more popular character with less popular characters, and hopefully increase awareness of these less popular characters.

Anti-Heroes:

Bloodshot (VE), Frank Castle (Marvel), X (Dark Horse)

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Idealists

Batman (New 52), Captain America (616), Green Arrow (New 52)

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Location: Minneapolis

• Weather: Partly Cloudy, 72º F
• Relatively empty, but there are a few bystanders
• Time: 5:00p, about 3 hours of daylight left.

Round 1:

• Standard Equipment for both teams (that they would bring into a battle).
• Start 50 feet apart
• Can see each other in full view (fight is on the bridge in the picture)
• No knowledge on their enemies
• Morals on
• In character

Round 2:

• Teams have 1 day to discuss tactics, familiarize themselves with their opponents, and grab equipment they would normally bring to a battlefield (nothing over-the-top that they never actually use).
• Teams then have 12 hours to prep the battlefield with traps, scanners, etc.
• Start 500 feet apart
• They're hunting one another
• General knowledge on their opponents only
• Morals on
• In character

Round 3:

• Standard Equipment for both teams (that they would bring into a battle)
• Start 1 mile apart.
• They're hunting one another
• General knowledge on their opponents only.
• Morals on
• In character

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Round 1:

• Standard Equipment for both teams (that they would bring into a battle).
• Start 50 feet apart
• Can see each other in full view (fight is on the bridge in the picture)
• No knowledge on their enemies
• Morals on
• In character

Kind of torn here. Bloodshot is a huge player. He's a solid 2.5 tonner, maybe more, can soak strikes from an 8 tonner+ with too much damage at all, is just as fast as anyone on the other team, has a pretty insane healing factor, technopathy to shut down Batman's electronics, a sonic screech/synaptic disruption to disable opponents, and is a decent H2H combatant and marksman in his own right. Skill isn't his main asset, but he isn't void of it either. Frank is.. Frank. Loses a 7/10 to either Cap or Batman, IMO would stalemate or beat Ollie, and is generally solid help here. X is who I know very little of. Waiting to hear more about him before my verdict is given. Although I will say that while I may be leaning towards the idealists, the anti-heroes have a solid shot here.

Round 2:

• Teams have 1 day to discuss tactics, familiarize themselves with their opponents, and grab equipment they would normally bring to a battlefield (nothing over-the-top that they never actually use).
• Teams then have 12 hours to prep the battlefield with traps, scanners, etc.
• Start 500 feet apart
• They're hunting one another
• General knowledge on their opponents only
• Morals on
• In character

Cap is a better strategist than anyone on the other team. Frank can contend in this area, but he's not quite up to par. Batman provides his side much better resources. Ollie will be packing plenty of great trick arrows. While Frank, Bloodshot and X can grab themselves some extremely impressive military-grade gear which will shred through everything short of Cap's shield, I don't know if they can take this. Although again, I'll wait to hear more about X.

Round 3:

• Standard Equipment for both teams (that they would bring into a battle)
• Start 1 mile apart.
• They're hunting one another
• General knowledge on their opponents only.
• Morals on
• In character

If Frank had something like a 50 Cal here, I could see him affording his team some wins. Bloodshot could maybe get some kind of sneak attack by shapeshifting into a pedestrian or something. Not sure about X. Abstain on this one.

@i_like_swords: The biggest thing that I considered during the prep rounds is this: The Anti-Heroes (all of them) don't typically refrain from using any sort of explosives, and will use them in excess if given the opportunity.

Additionally, the Anti-Heroes tend to be more brutal, and don't have the same level of morals to play around with as the Idealists. And the liberal use of lethal force on the Anti-Heroes side is what I deemed may allow them to contend with the Idealists prep, especially with Batman's moral code in play.

Just a few thoughts. I'm gonna wait for @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek to come in with some of X's stuff before I comment. But overall this is going to be a difficult match for both sides.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

@floopay: I'll happily drop some X feats.

• Takes on an entire group of metahumans with various powers.

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• Fights the Chaos Riders.

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• Versus the Chaos Riders Round 2.

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• Fighting Challenge.

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• Tanks pistol rounds point-blank with little problem.

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@floopay: I'd favor the anti-heroes, with Bloodshot being the MVP and X being the second.

Bump.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Gonna be honest, I don't think your normal street leveler is going to beat bloodshot. He was designed to fight mid-tier psiots.

Not saying he solos, but he very heavily MVP's.

@fallschirmjager: Could he be put down with an EMP?

I don't think so. I think he even has a specific counter for that, but I'd have to go reread some issues to support that.

@fallschirmjager: Oh, okay. Well both Batman and GA use EMPs so it shouldn't he out of their capabilities to put him down.

Blood shot is too stronk

What is Bloodshot's weakness? There has to be something that can put him down. Can his healing be taxed like Wolverine's? Obviously he could be incap'd, but it doesn't seem anything short of one of those "goop" arrows of Ollie's is going to do it (maybe if Batman grapple-wraps him?). Problem there is with this being a solid 3v3 Ollie is going to either have to: A) be very good at kiting an opponent with superior agility and reflexes given the location or B) put himself well out of logical and reasonable reach to warrant the desire to get to him, but that leaves Bruce and Steve in a melee 3v2.

Bloodshot SEEMS (again, hopefully someone can clarify my above concerns) to be unstoppable against the opposing team setup. Not saying they can't give him a good fight, but it seems like his powerset rock-paper-scissors them pretty well here between his durability and technopathy.

Frank is someone who can honestly give Bruce or Steve a hard time. He isn't "super" like either of them (Batman pulls off feats that a peak human couldn't, despite not being enhanced) but he is a survivor. That means he's a crafty combatant, and is not above fighting dirty. His fighting style isn't as refined as Bruce or Steve, but it's damn effective. So while he may not be as trained or as "skilled" I'd put his overall combat effectiveness near Bruce and Steve overall. Prep round? Hell its not hard to C4 a few buildings on their load bearing walls and potentially bring it all down on the other team. Bruce has the same capability, but not the same mindset to do something like that. Hunting in the city? That's what Frank does, without tech.

X looks like he's another Punisher-type based on YNCG's scans, but I know zero about him other than those.

Batman is Batman, there's nothing to be said about him. Even non-readers are familiar with Bruce.

Steve has great tactical and strategic ability, but is not a prepper in the sense of Bruce. He's a planner, and good at creating battle plans to exploit an enemies' weakness as a team. He also tends to be in situations where he KNOWS who his enemy is and where he is. Seems like it's often a point A to point B kind of thing. He's good in the fight, and planning for it.

Ollie has as much versatility as Bruce but applies it from range whereas Bruce applies his gadgets, typically, in closer range. His hand to hand isn't bad, but it isn't his style. If he can keep range, then he could be the MVP. If he can't, he could get taken out first.

I need to know what can take down Bloodshot or how he's been beaten in the past before I make a verdict.

Bloodshot can be EMP'd to my knowledge. A Psiot called Pulse EMP'd him and shut all of his nanites down. I can't remember if he had any resistance to lower scale EMPs. His healing can also be taxed. Eventually. You need to do grievous amounts of damage to him before that happens though. I'm talking hours and hours of fighting, being shot, blown up, exposed to extreme temperatures and his nanites undergoing difficult tasks. I don't see his healing being taxed here.

He can heal from dismemberment, but I can't quite remember how long it takes him.

Bump.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Going with Anti Heroes. Frank is good enough for anyone here. Bloodshot is superior. X looks like he can for sure hold his own.

Bump

Thanks for reading,

Floopay