• 94 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

Here are the rules:

  • This is the strongest version of Wally West vs. the strongest version of Dark Phoenix
  • Both Wally West and Dark Phoenix are bloodlusted
  • No prep time
  • Neither character has any knowledge about their opponent
  • Win by death, BFR or KO

#2 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

The strongest version being the one who did the tuning feat, or the one who was in two places at the same time and faster than instant teleportation, or the one who crossed the universe in a second?

Also isn't the strongest version of Dark Phoenix just energy? How would Wally hurt it?

#3 Edited by Shavo (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

Dark Phoenix stomps

#4 Posted by homicidalmaniac (7344 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#5 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarklordpandamonium said:

The strongest version being the one who did the tuning feat, or the one who was in two places at the same time and faster than instant teleportation, or the one who crossed the universe in a second?

Also isn't the strongest version of Dark Phoenix just energy? How would Wally hurt it?

It doesn't matter. Whichever version of Wally West is strongest and fastest. If you like, use a composite version.

Also, Wally West has speed stolen beings of pure energy before, so there's that.

#6 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarklordpandamonium: Wouldn't the strongest Dark Phoenix just be White Phoenix.

No White Phoenix, just Dark Phoenix. By "strongest version," I just mean DP without the influence of Jean Grey.

#7 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari:

It doesn't matter if Wally's stolen their speed

DP at her strongest is an energy being, Wally can't hurt her

#8 Posted by King_Namor (649 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally roflstomps :3

#9 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3594 posts) - - Show Bio

The last time I read a thread like this, @zoom made a bunch of posters cry because they couldn't give a single defensive feat of reaction time for the Dark Phoenix. He basically argued that everyone knows the offensive powerhouse the Phoenix is, no one disputes that, he would (as would I) however like someone to post scans of the Phoenix outreacting instantaneous teleportation (being Wally's fastest feat) and proof that physical means can not harm the Phoenix. So this thread is easy. Simply prove:

1) The Dark Phoenix Jean is completely immune to physical harm on panel.

2) The Dark Phoenix Jean is faster and quicker than Wally West.

3) The Dark Phoenix Jean is immune to the speedsteal.

If anyone does this I would personally tag all 3 battle mods to lock this thread for spite against West. Don't bother posting Dark Phoenix's offensive capabilities because here they are all essentially irrelevant. The only posts that matter here are the defensive feats that lie anywhere on the 1-3 list I made for you guys.

Online
#10 Posted by RedLanternSuperman (348 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm staying out of Wally West threads. His fanboys are beyond ridiculous.

#11 Edited by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari:

It doesn't matter if Wally's stolen their speed

DP at her strongest is an energy being, Wally can't hurt her

Well, I'm the OP of the thread so I can't argue one way or the other. I was just giving you that piece of info.

#13 Posted by homicidalmaniac (7344 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01: Didn't you say that Hal Jordan Parallax would lose to Flash(I know it off topic).Would Wally West SS would on the PF since Jean isn't it host?.

Online
#14 Edited by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

Dark Phoenix held her own against galactus, Wally west fan boys are smoking crack: and this is yet another bait thread to see how far there stupidity will go

#15 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3594 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01: Didn't you say that Hal Jordan Parallax would lose to Flash(I know it off topic).Would Wally West SS would on the PF since Jean isn't it host?.

I guess it depends, Wally's stolen speed from inanimate objects, subatomic particles, planets and even magical beings before. Magic tends to be trickier than Cosmic energy so I don't see why not. I don't know what feats the Dark Phoenix has without Jean as its host?

As to the first part, I made the argument that Hal was Ko'd by Oliver Queen. Without prep time to utilize his power, Wally could simply KO Hal before his brain's consciousness could get out a thought. Zero Hour Hal Jordan is quite a bit different from Dark Phoenix Jean though.

Online
#16 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3594 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01:

Nobody's going to dispute 2 and 3, but is it okay if I just prove 1?

Of course, but then the Flashes "fanboys" could simply reply that he leaves for the speedforce where he couldn't be harmed. Essentially a stalemate. But you should prove 1. It would be good for the debating in general

Online
#17 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarklordpandamonium said:

@supermanwithatan01:

Nobody's going to dispute 2 and 3, but is it okay if I just prove 1?

Of course, but then the Flashes "fanboys" could simply reply that he leaves for the speedforce where he couldn't be harmed. Essentially a stalemate. But you should prove 1. It would be good for the debating in general

Ugh

All I can remember offhand is Hulk/Thor/Thing/Hercules completely failing to hurt her b/c she was energy and feeding off of some crap and then somebody else had to do something (Kubik maybe?)

#18 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarklordpandamonium said:

@supermanwithatan01:

Nobody's going to dispute 2 and 3, but is it okay if I just prove 1?

Of course, but then the Flashes "fanboys" could simply reply that he leaves for the speedforce where he couldn't be harmed. Essentially a stalemate. But you should prove 1. It would be good for the debating in general

Wally can't leave for the speed force because that would be self-BFR = auto-lose.

#19 Edited by homicidalmaniac (7344 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01: The PF is consider to be Multi-Verse in couple of stories and have Flash SS have did ever work MV beings.

Online
#20 Posted by 616Vulture (1470 posts) - - Show Bio

@moonman78: *their also refer back to

The last time I read a thread like this, @zoom made a bunch of posters cry because they couldn't give a single defensive feat of reaction time for the Dark Phoenix. He basically argued that everyone knows the offensive powerhouse the Phoenix is, no one disputes that, he would (as would I) however like someone to post scans of the Phoenix outreacting instantaneous teleportation (being Wally's fastest feat) and proof that physical means can not harm the Phoenix. So this thread is easy. Simply prove:

1) The Dark Phoenix Jean is completely immune to physical harm on panel.

2) The Dark Phoenix Jean is faster and quicker than Wally West.

3) The Dark Phoenix Jean is immune to the speedsteal.

If anyone does this I would personally tag all 3 battle mods to lock this thread for spite against West. Don't bother posting Dark Phoenix's offensive capabilities because here they are all essentially irrelevant. The only posts that matter here are the defensive feats that lie anywhere on the 1-3 list I made for you guys.

So answer these also Scans? Saying Wally West fanboys are on crack is not a good argument and it just show you can't back it up.

#21 Edited by Supermanwithatan01 (3594 posts) - - Show Bio

Here are the rules:

  • This is the strongest version of Wally West vs. the strongest version of Dark Phoenix
  • Both Wally West and Dark Phoenix are bloodlusted
  • No prep time
  • Neither character has any knowledge about their opponent
  • Win by death, BFR or KO

Win by BFR? so leaving?

@thedarklordpandamonium: Hmm

Online
#22 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari said:

Here are the rules:

  • This is the strongest version of Wally West vs. the strongest version of Dark Phoenix
  • Both Wally West and Dark Phoenix are bloodlusted
  • No prep time
  • Neither character has any knowledge about their opponent
  • Win by death, BFR or KO

Win by BFR? so leaving?

@thedarklordpandamonium: Hmm

Are you joking? Win by BFR-ing your opponent, not yourself.

#23 Edited by Supermanwithatan01 (3594 posts) - - Show Bio

@616vulture: Lol hey I'm nobody, I was just saying that's what it would take to sway me

@supermanwithatan01: The PF is consider to be Multi-Verse in couple of stories and have Flash SS have did ever work MV beings.

This isn't the Phoenix Force this is the Dark Phoenix. I don't understand you're second statement but has the Dark Phoenix ever trasmutated an Ant wearing special boots with an army helmet on?

Online
#24 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3594 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01 said:

@uberhikari said:

Here are the rules:

  • This is the strongest version of Wally West vs. the strongest version of Dark Phoenix
  • Both Wally West and Dark Phoenix are bloodlusted
  • No prep time
  • Neither character has any knowledge about their opponent
  • Win by death, BFR or KO

Win by BFR? so leaving?

@thedarklordpandamonium: Hmm

Are you joking? Win by BFR-ing your opponent, not yourself.

Typically when you're wanting to make that implication you would say, "NO BFR". It's alright I understand your confusion based on previous experience with your misconceptions of things. No harm done.

Online
#25 Edited by homicidalmaniac (7344 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01: I meant by that PF is full control over Jean(I think she is).If Flash did a SS on Jean body then wouldn't PF still make Jean move(kind alike a puppet).

Online
#26 Edited by Supermanwithatan01 (3594 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01: I meant by that PF is full control over Jean(I think she is).If Flash did a SS on Jean body then wouldn't PF still make Jean move(kind alike a puppet).

Oh alright, sorry I understand now. To what end would the phoenix force need to move jean like a puppet? I mean, I suppose you'd have to present evidence that the Phoenix force, in order to move Jean, would have greater control of Kinetic Energy on panel...

Online
#27 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

She held her own against galactus please give up this argument and avoid looking worse

#28 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari said:

@supermanwithatan01 said:

@uberhikari said:

Here are the rules:

  • This is the strongest version of Wally West vs. the strongest version of Dark Phoenix
  • Both Wally West and Dark Phoenix are bloodlusted
  • No prep time
  • Neither character has any knowledge about their opponent
  • Win by death, BFR or KO

Win by BFR? so leaving?

@thedarklordpandamonium: Hmm

Are you joking? Win by BFR-ing your opponent, not yourself.

Typically when you're wanting to make that implication you would say, "NO BFR". It's alright I understand your confusion based on previous experience with your misconceptions of things. No harm done.

No, you're the one who's confused. "No BFR" means that someone can't win by BFR-ing their opponent. However, if you say "win by BFR," that means you can win by BFR-ing your opponent. Think about what you're saying, and it will immediately become clear that what you're saying is silly. If win by BFR meant that you could win by BFR-ing yourself, then you could make a battle between Wally and Adult Franklin and say, "Look, Wally wins by BFR-ing himself!" Obviously, that's retarded. Don't worry though, I understand you have a very low IQ and I feel it's my moral duty to be patient with people such as yourself.

#29 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3594 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to get off now, I'll be back tomorrow. Thanks for posting a pic of Jean struggling with Galactus who is << COIE Antimonitor who is clearly being hurt by Wally using like 1/5 of his powers. Gosh you're proving my argument for me.

Online
#30 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3594 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01 said:

@uberhikari said:

@supermanwithatan01 said:

@uberhikari said:

Here are the rules:

  • This is the strongest version of Wally West vs. the strongest version of Dark Phoenix
  • Both Wally West and Dark Phoenix are bloodlusted
  • No prep time
  • Neither character has any knowledge about their opponent
  • Win by death, BFR or KO

Win by BFR? so leaving?

@thedarklordpandamonium: Hmm

Are you joking? Win by BFR-ing your opponent, not yourself.

Typically when you're wanting to make that implication you would say, "NO BFR". It's alright I understand your confusion based on previous experience with your misconceptions of things. No harm done.

No, you're the one who's confused. "No BFR" means that someone can't win by BFR-ing their opponent. However, if you say "win by BFR," that means you can win by BFR-ing your opponent. Think about what you're saying, and it will immediately become clear that what you're saying is silly. If win by BFR meant that you could win by BFR-ing yourself, then you could make a battle between Wally and Adult Franklin and say, "Look, Wally wins by BFR-ing himself!" Obviously, that's retarded. Don't worry though, I understand you have a very low IQ and I feel it's my moral duty to be patient with people such as yourself.

Lol no. This is... no.

Online
#31 Posted by homicidalmaniac (7344 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01: considering that the Green Phoenix in that scan and I recall that Flash didn't beat AM and I think AM armor was weaken when Flash did that feat.

Online
#32 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari said:

@supermanwithatan01 said:

@uberhikari said:

@supermanwithatan01 said:

@uberhikari said:

Here are the rules:

  • This is the strongest version of Wally West vs. the strongest version of Dark Phoenix
  • Both Wally West and Dark Phoenix are bloodlusted
  • No prep time
  • Neither character has any knowledge about their opponent
  • Win by death, BFR or KO

Win by BFR? so leaving?

@thedarklordpandamonium: Hmm

Are you joking? Win by BFR-ing your opponent, not yourself.

Typically when you're wanting to make that implication you would say, "NO BFR". It's alright I understand your confusion based on previous experience with your misconceptions of things. No harm done.

No, you're the one who's confused. "No BFR" means that someone can't win by BFR-ing their opponent. However, if you say "win by BFR," that means you can win by BFR-ing your opponent. Think about what you're saying, and it will immediately become clear that what you're saying is silly. If win by BFR meant that you could win by BFR-ing yourself, then you could make a battle between Wally and Adult Franklin and say, "Look, Wally wins by BFR-ing himself!" Obviously, that's retarded. Don't worry though, I understand you have a very low IQ and I feel it's my moral duty to be patient with people such as yourself.

Lol no. This is... no.

So, after I very clearly explain to you why what you said is silly, that's the best response you can come up with?

As always, "lol" and declarations of "no" are the last bastion of idiocy.

#33 Posted by 616Vulture (1470 posts) - - Show Bio

@moonman78:

1) The Dark Phoenix Jean is completely immune to physical harm on panel.

2) The Dark Phoenix Jean is faster and quicker than Wally West.

3) The Dark Phoenix Jean is immune to the speedsteal.

Again prove these then I'll change my mind. You can't prove it. I am not making my myself look bad here.

and what he said

I have to get off now, I'll be back tomorrow. Thanks for posting a pic of Jean struggling with Galactus who is << COIE Antimonitor who is clearly being hurt by Wally using like 1/5 of his powers. Gosh you're proving my argument for me.

#34 Edited by homicidalmaniac (7344 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01: I have not find any evidences of this type of feat,but I was trying to giving out examples(that type of feat might exist,but I not have found yet).I give you this if I(Phoenix Force)was playing with a puppet(Jean) and a guy(Flash)cut the slings of the puppet off and then I play with puppet without using the slings.

Online
#35 Edited by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@616vulture:

How about this, who is the strongest person Wally ever speed stole from, if its anybody near DP level then I will regress

Note if galactus has trouble harming her Wally sure as hell won't with some fast punches and kicks or imps.

#36 Posted by homicidalmaniac (7344 posts) - - Show Bio

@616vulture: Next page didn't it shown AM in his energy form.

Online
#37 Edited by No_Trolling (653 posts) - - Show Bio

Instead of making stomp threads you should go back to making youtube videos.

#38 Posted by BigCimmerian (8018 posts) - - Show Bio

Dark Phoenix wins, effortless curbstomp.

#39 Posted by Perethorn (3295 posts) - - Show Bio

Dark Phoenix OVERKILL.

#40 Posted by 616Vulture (1470 posts) - - Show Bio

@moonman78: Prove to me

1) The Dark Phoenix Jean is completely immune to physical harm on panel.

2) The Dark Phoenix Jean is faster and quicker than Wally West.

3) The Dark Phoenix Jean is immune to the speedsteal.

You telling me to show you who wally west has speed steal shows you can't come up with anything to prove the three points I need to change my minds. Also Flash running up punching full force is gonna do damage. Also it is not the strength that stops him from speed stealing.

I'll answer it anyways.

He has speedsteal the entire planet I still trying to find the scan though.

He also can speed steal superman. He has also completely freeze inertia. He also stole Jay Garrick's speed as well

He also has speed steal many more.

#41 Posted by BigCimmerian (8018 posts) - - Show Bio

@moonman78: Prove to me

1) The Dark Phoenix Jean is completely immune to physical harm on panel.

2) The Dark Phoenix Jean is faster and quicker than Wally West.

3) The Dark Phoenix Jean is immune to the speedsteal.

You telling me to show you who wally west has speed steal shows you can't come up with anything to prove the three points I need to change my minds. Also Flash running up punching full force is gonna do damage. Also it is not the strength that stops him from speed stealing.

I'll answer it anyways.

He has speedsteal the entire planet I still trying to find the scan though.

He also can speed steal superman. He has also completely freeze inertia. He also stole Jay Garrick's speed as well

He also has speed steal many more.

1) Phoenix has taken shots from Galactus, do u really think Wally will even phase her?

2) She doesn't need to be faster, she only needs to destroy the galaxy in which Flash is to win

3) She is reality warper, she can just remove that ability from Flash arsenal lol

#42 Posted by Dredeuced (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

Phoenix is not a reality warper? It's like a psionic energy entity. Unless something happened to the phoenix I'm not aware of.

#43 Edited by BigCimmerian (8018 posts) - - Show Bio

Phoenix is not a reality warper? It's like a psionic energy entity. Unless something happened to the phoenix I'm not aware of.

Phoenix has cosmic energy, same energy that Galactus has, she's also energy and matter manipulator. Not just psionic entity. Last time I checked cosmic energy allowed Galactus and other Abstracts to warp reality, but I may be wrong.

#44 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Phoenix is not a reality warper? It's like a psionic energy entity. Unless something happened to the phoenix I'm not aware of.

She can reality warp, creating powers in people or depowering them. Look up Phoenix 5 and the whole AvX event......

Phoenix also has Time and Space powers.

#45 Edited by 616Vulture (1470 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian: 1) he has taken down Anti-Monitor who is stronger than Galactus

2) How will she take down Flash if she can't move, You really think she'll do that?

3) How is she going to take away his ability? In her universe their is no such thing as the Speedforce so how will she manipulate it?

4) If he gets close enough phase his hand through her heart end of story.

5) No one has yet to answer

1) The Dark Phoenix Jean is completely immune to physical harm on panel. Taking on Galactus she still wasn't immune to it.

2) The Dark Phoenix Jean is faster and quicker than Wally West. This matters because how will she stop him from punching her hundreds of time.

3) The Dark Phoenix Jean is immune to the speedsteal.

@homicidalmaniac I don't remember.

#46 Edited by Dredeuced (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced said:

Phoenix is not a reality warper? It's like a psionic energy entity. Unless something happened to the phoenix I'm not aware of.

She can reality warp, creating powers in people or depowering them. Look up Phoenix 5 and the whole AvX event......

Phoenix also has Time and Space powers.

I wouldn't call that reality warping. No more than Silver Surfer's ability to take and remove peoples' powers. The phoenix is a force of evolution and all.

@dredeuced said:

Phoenix is not a reality warper? It's like a psionic energy entity. Unless something happened to the phoenix I'm not aware of.

Phoenix has cosmic energy, same energy that Galactus has, she's also energy and matter manipulator. Not just psionic entity. Last time I checked cosmic energy allowed Galactus and other Abstracts to warp reality, but I may be wrong.

The Phoenix Force is not the same as Galactus. It's power is relatively unlimited, Galactus has to eat junk. Galactus' power is the Power Cosmic, he is not an abstract and he does not reality warp like one as far as I'm aware. If he did he wouldn't need to create technology and junk.

#47 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:
@dredeuced said:

Phoenix is not a reality warper? It's like a psionic energy entity. Unless something happened to the phoenix I'm not aware of.

She can reality warp, creating powers in people or depowering them. Look up Phoenix 5 and the whole AvX event......

Phoenix also has Time and Space powers.

I wouldn't call that reality warping. No more than Silver Surfer's ability to take and remove peoples' powers. The phoenix is a force of evolution and all.

@bigcimmerian said:

@dredeuced said:

Phoenix is not a reality warper? It's like a psionic energy entity. Unless something happened to the phoenix I'm not aware of.

Phoenix has cosmic energy, same energy that Galactus has, she's also energy and matter manipulator. Not just psionic entity. Last time I checked cosmic energy allowed Galactus and other Abstracts to warp reality, but I may be wrong.

The Phoenix Force is not the same as Galactus. It's power is relatively unlimited, Galactus has to eat junk. Galactus' power is the Power Cosmic, he is not an abstract and he does not reality warp like one as far as I'm aware. If he did he wouldn't need to create technology and junk.

Marvel official Bio even shows this.

Read the middle part. She is insane.

The weaker Green Phoenix Rachel (Green Phoenix has morals and holds back, Dark Phoenix does not, thus Green < Dark) beats Galactus.

Dark Phoenix clearly wins.

Also feats of Time Travel

As well feats of Molecule Manipulation in Emma feat here.

This was Emma with 1/3rd of the Phoenix Force power. 1/3rd.

Dark Phoenix wins. No contest.

#48 Posted by X_insignia1 (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced

I don't recall surfer removing anyone's abilities, unless you're referring to the Cable vs Silver surfer incident. If so, he did no such thing, he burned Cable out tis all, which was specifically mentioned on panel. There was a misconception on that battle forums stating Surfer turned off Cable's x-gene, which never happened.

#49 Edited by Dredeuced (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I'm not arguing for Wally and I'm not saying the Dark Phoenix isn't powerful. That middle section doesn't say reality warping. She control the primal life force of the universe, agreed, but all of her attacks I've ever seen a Phoenix host do are telepathic, psionic blasts, or energy manipulation, not straight reality warping.

Also, I mean, beating Thor ain't no thing. Wally would whomp Thor.

@dredeuced

I don't recall surfer removing anyone's abilities, unless you're referring to the Cable vs Silver surfer incident. If so, he did no such thing, he burned Cable out tis all, which was specifically mentioned on panel. There was a misconception on that battle forums stating Surfer turned off Cable's x-gene, which never happened.

There was this time he came upon some evil woman who was treating her people badly because she used her power to lord over them. Surfer took away her powers and left her there for the people to decide what to do to her. I forget the details but I'm sure someone has the scan on hand.

#50 Edited by GonnaRain (752 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Agreed. And that Emma was also the equivalent of the Green Phoenix (even though she was close to having no morals at all...), not to mention that Jean will always be the Phoenix. So Dark Phoenix Jean could certainly do a whole lot better.

-

Dark Phoenix wins. Wally is impressive, and speed steal could work, but IMO it won't be permanent. He can't really hurt her, and he can't put her down.