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#1 Edited by ZhuRong (4005 posts) - - Show Bio

No entering the speed force

No speed steal

No IMP

Cheetah is bloodlusted

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#2 Posted by Dratini1331 (7028 posts) - - Show Bio

@zhurong said:

No speed force

No speed steal

Cheetah is bloodlusted

Doesn't that mean Wally has no super speed and is just a normal guy?

#3 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@zhurong said:

No speed force

No speed steal

Cheetah is bloodlusted

Doesn't that mean Wally has no super speed and is just a normal guy?

ye

#4 Posted by ZhuRong (4005 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331: No. The speed force is like some universe with speedsters that he can throw his opponents in but He still has his regular powers

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#5 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@zhurong said:

@dratini1331: No. The speed force is like some universe with speedsters that he can throw his opponents in but He still has his regular powers

You don't know how the speed force works.

#6 Posted by Dratini1331 (7028 posts) - - Show Bio

@zhurong: You mean he can't BFR into the speed force? He can throw people into it, but it's also the source of his powers. No speed force, no Flash. Also, if all normal powers? Wally owns her:

Wally is canonically the asymptotic (ha! bonus points for math words!) to the speed of light according to canon. If you do the math, it's actually 13 trillion times the speed of light. No matter what way you cut it, Wally is way faster than her.

He also has intangibility, so she can do anything to him.

#7 Posted by sungod88 (205 posts) - - Show Bio

The speed force gives the Flash his power. I think you meant to say he can't ENTER the speed force.

#8 Posted by ZhuRong (4005 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by ZhuRong (4005 posts) - - Show Bio

@sungod88 said:

The speed force gives the Flash his power. I think you meant to say he can't ENTER the speed force.

Yes this what I meant...I will edit it

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#10 Edited by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331:

Actually, it literally says 'in a hair's breadth the short of light' in that panel. Whenever he goes light speed or above he gets absorbed into the speed force; we just pretend otherwise with calcs.

#11 Posted by _Cerberus_ (3448 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay what the hell did New-52 Cheetah do that everybody is screaming how impressive and OP she is.

#12 Posted by Dratini1331 (7028 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarklordpandamonium: thus the math word. He's approaching light speed, or very close to it. I'm mainly using that as canon proof wally is about Light Speed, which is far faster than cheetah.

#13 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay what the hell did New-52 Cheetah do that everybody is screaming how impressive and OP she is.

Blitzing WW and Flash

#14 Posted by comic_book_fan (5729 posts) - - Show Bio

flash stomps cheetah does not belong in this fight.

#15 Posted by Dredeuced (5724 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331:

Actually, the writers have never intended Wally to go FTL without some sort of boost...it literally says 'in a hair's breadth the short of light' in that panel. Whenever he goes light speed or above he gets absorbed into the speed force; we just pretend otherwise with calcs.

The dozens of times the writer has him say something like "I can beat a spotlight to its target" or "I run beyond the speed of light" or any other number of times he specifically states he is FTL and has shown FTL abilities of his own power kind of disproves that.

I'm not sure which "Writers" you're talking about. Every writer ever? Wally West writers? JL Writers?

#16 Posted by Jmarshmallow (8989 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol at the "hair's breadth short of the speed of light". Wally has not only shown to go the speed of light in other feats, but he is going way faster in that very one. The writers saying otherwise is complete and total WIS.

As for the OP, Wally stomps. Deathstroke has tagged Flash too, doesn't mean he would win.

Flash gets underplayed all the time, because if he went full speed there wouldn't really be a story.

Jmarshmallow

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#17 Posted by hardcorefakes (691 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering Flash is a moron with morals on, I say Cheetah has a shot.

#18 Posted by Pokeysteve (8425 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering Flash is a moron with morals on, I say Cheetah has a shot.

Lol it's sad how true this is.

#19 Posted by dondave (38580 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally

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#20 Edited by Dextersinister (6355 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Posted by comic_book_fan (5729 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarklordpandamonium:

the flash was the only member of the jla they intended to go faster than light originally.

#22 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced:

Sorry I just finished watching JLU and the Season 4 climax and yeah Lexiac Wally speedforce

Was thinking about the animated version

#23 Edited by cfrehse (1004 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331: omg lol. Feats like that make me feel like he should never ever be able to be hit by anyone

#24 Edited by Dextersinister (6355 posts) - - Show Bio

@cfrehse said:

@dratini1331: omg lol. Feats like that make me feel like he should never ever be able to be hit by anyone

One of the writers said they need to add a high level of PIS for the sake of Flash stories. The example he gave was that without it the villains shouldn't even see Wally, the fight would be over as soon as he was aware of the crime and location.

#25 Edited by SheenLantern (6806 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarklordpandamonium said:

@dratini1331:

Actually, the writers have never intended Wally to go FTL without some sort of boost...it literally says 'in a hair's breadth the short of light' in that panel. Whenever he goes light speed or above he gets absorbed into the speed force; we just pretend otherwise with calcs.

I guess Odin is omnipotent then, and we just pretend otherwise with scans of him getting owned.

#26 Posted by dondave (38580 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarklordpandamonium said:

@dratini1331:

Actually, the writers have never intended Wally to go FTL without some sort of boost...it literally says 'in a hair's breadth the short of light' in that panel. Whenever he goes light speed or above he gets absorbed into the speed force; we just pretend otherwise with calcs.

I guess Odin is omnipotent then, and we just pretend otherwise with scans of him getting owned.

Preach

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#27 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3788 posts) - - Show Bio

I lol at this thread. Morals on for West vs Morals off for Cheetah is like Morals on Superman vs Morals off Quicksilver.

#28 Posted by russellmania77 (15676 posts) - - Show Bio

wally... always wally

#29 Posted by PieHole (274 posts) - - Show Bio

WW. Beats instant teleportation across the galaxy.

#30 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

It amazes me the people who look at that scan and say Wally can go 13 trillion times the speed of light, that is rediculous, do you know how fast that is. Anyway I say if cheetah can beat ww she wins this fight, I guess Wally would have a chance here since he is faster but cheetah still wins.

#31 Posted by russellmania77 (15676 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm using this logic, whatever u wanna call it

Speed advantage- Wally

Strength advantage- cheetah

Skill advantage- cheetah

Easier to ko - Wally

Durability - cheetah

So cheetah wins, sure Wally is faster but all he has is speed, she has more advantages and she has proven that she can hang in a battle with top tiers better than Wally can, so due to all these things, she wins.

#33 Posted by dondave (38580 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm using this logic, whatever u wanna call it

Speed advantage- Wally

Strength advantage- cheetah

Skill advantage- cheetah

Easier to ko - Wally

Durability - cheetah

So cheetah wins, sure Wally is faster but all he has is speed, she has more advantages and she has proven that she can hang in a battle with top tiers better than Wally can, so due to all these things, she wins.

Do you even read comics? I feel like you don't even know who you're talking about

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#34 Edited by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave:

If you tell me I'm wrong about any of these things I just said with respect to there stats ill know you don't, or at least u don't know about these two characters.

#35 Posted by dondave (38580 posts) - - Show Bio

@moonman78: Cheetah only has a lifting strength advantage over the Flash, he has better striking feats by far. Wally is not easier to KO, it's practically impossible for Cheetah to do so. He can continue to dodge her all day if felt like it or just stand there while being intangible preventing her from being able to touch him. It's actually easier for Wally KO Cheetah, having a hand phased through your brain will do that to you, or being hit with the force of a white dwarf star; she can also have her speed stolen from her as he has already done to her in comics. Wally's Speed Force Aura also increase his durability, this allows him to survive punches from characters such as Zoom who hits harder than Superman and also being able to take hits from Mongul Sr

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#36 Posted by PieHole (274 posts) - - Show Bio

@moonman78: Ridiculous or not 13 trillion times the speed of light is a calculated thing. Whether the comics say he went at the speed of light or not.

#37 Posted by Guardian_of_Gravity (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

The IMP comes from an overestimation of reletavistic mass gain rather than anything inherent to the flash. That being said as I showed in my WW calc, simply by running at 99 percent light speed flash is already hitting harder than the world's nuclear arsenal put together and as is standard for comics, this force is concentrated into the immediate area of his fist rather than blowing up half of the state in a multi gigaton blast.

However as Flash has moved at anywhere from 7 to several trillion times light speed to rescue everyone in a city from a detonating atomic bomb (it doesn't matter what he says, that feat cannot be done at speeds below light, and Wally is not an omniscient narrarator) this goes out the window.

Assuming the light speed barrier just doesn't apply to him and we can still use regular kinetic energy calcs, as velocity is squared in the relevant equation his striking power is still growing at an exponential rate, mass gain or not. Going with 7c as his speed and 90 kg as his mass we get a body slam impact force of

198,450,000,000,000,000,000 joules. 1.9845 x 10^21 in other words, wonder woman's striking power from speed alone is by comparison lower by three orders of magnitude. Flash is hitting with teraton force even without infinite mass gain.

Which means the closest comparison to Wally's hitting ability is the Dinosaur killer asteroid. Focused into his fist, thrown at millions of times a second. If Cheetah is a sublighter flash is punching thousands of times harder and she in turn would be moving as if she were flowing in Syrup for a lowballed Flash.

For the high end trillions times C Cheetah would be standing still and Flash would punch her so hard her atomic structure would break down into quark gluon plasma. We're talking hitting harder than the Death star here.

tl;dr fighting Wally is like getting cockslapped by Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein simultaneously.

#38 Posted by Batman242 (4862 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm using this logic, whatever u wanna call it

Speed advantage- Wally

Strength advantage- cheetah

Skill advantage- cheetah

Easier to ko - Wally

Durability - cheetah

So cheetah wins, sure Wally is faster but all he has is speed, she has more advantages and she has proven that she can hang in a battle with top tiers better than Wally can, so due to all these things, she wins.

How many times can you be wrong? Seriously.

#39 Posted by dondave (38580 posts) - - Show Bio

The IMP comes from an overestimation of reletavistic mass gain rather than anything inherent to the flash. That being said as I showed in my WW calc, simply by running at 99 percent light speed flash is already hitting harder than the world's nuclear arsenal put together and as is standard for comics, this force is concentrated into the immediate area of his fist rather than blowing up half of the state in a multi gigaton blast.

However as Flash has moved at anywhere from 7 to several trillion times light speed to rescue everyone in a city from a detonating atomic bomb (it doesn't matter what he says, that feat cannot be done at speeds below light, and Wally is not an omniscient narrarator) this goes out the window.

Assuming the light speed barrier just doesn't apply to him and we can still use regular kinetic energy calcs, as velocity is squared in the relevant equation his striking power is still growing at an exponential rate, mass gain or not. Going with 7c as his speed and 90 kg as his mass we get a body slam impact force of

198,450,000,000,000,000,000 joules. 1.9845 x 10^21 in other words, wonder woman's striking power from speed alone is by comparison lower by three orders of magnitude. Flash is hitting with teraton force even without infinite mass gain.

Which means the closest comparison to Wally's hitting ability is the Dinosaur killer asteroid. Focused into his fist, thrown at millions of times a second. If Cheetah is a sublighter flash is punching thousands of times harder and she in turn would be moving as if she were flowing in Syrup for a lowballed Flash.

For the high end trillions times C Cheetah would be standing still and Flash would punch her so hard her atomic structure would break down into quark gluon plasma. We're talking hitting harder than the Death star here.

tl;dr fighting Wally is like getting cockslapped by Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein simultaneously.

LMAO

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#40 Posted by hardcorefakes (691 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@guardian_of_gravity said:

The IMP comes from an overestimation of reletavistic mass gain rather than anything inherent to the flash. That being said as I showed in my WW calc, simply by running at 99 percent light speed flash is already hitting harder than the world's nuclear arsenal put together and as is standard for comics, this force is concentrated into the immediate area of his fist rather than blowing up half of the state in a multi gigaton blast.

However as Flash has moved at anywhere from 7 to several trillion times light speed to rescue everyone in a city from a detonating atomic bomb (it doesn't matter what he says, that feat cannot be done at speeds below light, and Wally is not an omniscient narrarator) this goes out the window.

Assuming the light speed barrier just doesn't apply to him and we can still use regular kinetic energy calcs, as velocity is squared in the relevant equation his striking power is still growing at an exponential rate, mass gain or not. Going with 7c as his speed and 90 kg as his mass we get a body slam impact force of

198,450,000,000,000,000,000 joules. 1.9845 x 10^21 in other words, wonder woman's striking power from speed alone is by comparison lower by three orders of magnitude. Flash is hitting with teraton force even without infinite mass gain.

Which means the closest comparison to Wally's hitting ability is the Dinosaur killer asteroid. Focused into his fist, thrown at millions of times a second. If Cheetah is a sublighter flash is punching thousands of times harder and she in turn would be moving as if she were flowing in Syrup for a lowballed Flash.

For the high end trillions times C Cheetah would be standing still and Flash would punch her so hard her atomic structure would break down into quark gluon plasma. We're talking hitting harder than the Death star here.

tl;dr fighting Wally is like getting cockslapped by Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein simultaneously.

LMAO

That really isn't that funny.

#41 Edited by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave:

Dude, the fact that you think zoom hits harder than superman says it all. Zoom was giving Wonder Woman his best and still could not ko ww, on the other hand zoom did and has koed Wally, after all that Wonder Woman expended little effort to ko zoom and she was blind so you do the math. There is no way in hell zoom or anybody related to the flashes hit remotely as hard as superman I don't care what Wonder Woman said on panel if superman hit her that many times shed be dead and u know it, zoom couldn't even ko her, sorry.

#42 Posted by Batman242 (4862 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave:

Dude, the fact that you think zoom hits harder than superman says it all. Zoom was giving Wonder Woman his best and still could not ko ww, on the other hand zoom did and has koed Wally, after all that Wonder Woman expended little effort to ko zoom and she was blind so you do the math. There is no way in hell zoom or anybody related to the flashes hit remotely as hard as superman I don't care what Wonder Woman said on panel if superman hit her that many times shed be dead and u know it, zoom couldn't even ko her, sorry.

@dondave; I think it's best to just leave it alone, bro.

#43 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@piehole: nope sorry that was calculated wrong. The speed of light is 186000 miles a sec. And let's say that island was the distance from the US to Japan, which I'm sure it wasn't close to that far, but if it was that's 5500 miles. And if he took them back and forth one at a time that would be around 1.5 billion times the speed of light, but you can cut that back because it says sometimes he took 2 at a time.

Now we know the island was only 35 miles away so.... This means he was under but around 100 times the speed of light and that's only if you calculate it. The bottom panel says exactly how fast DC meant for him to go which was near light speed, this is what they meant, but even if you want to calculate the mistake it's still well under 100 times light speed. It can NEVER I mean NEVER be miscalculated as 13 trillion times light speed, do you see how big of a difference that is and it's way way wrong, bielieve what you want or add it up yourself.

#44 Edited by PieHole (274 posts) - - Show Bio

@moonman78: Flash is still faster. Lolwatermelons.

#45 Edited by Guardian_of_Gravity (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

@moonman78: The 13 trillion part comes from having to individually search every room in the city before the light speed heat flash fries everyone.

#46 Posted by New_World_Order (13298 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally.

#47 Posted by XiiX (8750 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity:

But that's something you came up with on your own, I mean I can see what your saying but that was never stated on panel, and even so it still would have to be way way way less, do you know how much of a difference 100 and 13 trillion is. Of course flash is faster than her but he's no where near that fast

#49 Edited by Guardian_of_Gravity (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

@moonman78: Wally is not an omniscient narrarator. Wally would have to find a person, then take, then put away, then repeat this countless times before the light of the atomic bomb could reach anyone, this requires so much speed that light would be standing still in his frame of reference.

High end Wally would be able to punch each and every one of Cheetah's cells individually and she would be statue still in his frame of reference as she is a sublight speed character. She would process the fight beginning and then nothing else because Wally just reduced her to a free floating mass of base baryonic particles with punches more powerful than earth's collision with orpheus.

If Flash wanted to, he is literally fast enough to punchsplode every criminal and villain on DC earth save for his own rogues gallery and be back so fast that to an observer it would look like he never moved.

Between him and Doctor Fate (The only team member I believe can beat Wally) no one else on the JLA really has a point power wise. Wonder Woman certainly can't beat him even if I really like Diana. Cheetah won't even know she was in a fight before Flash killed her.

Most optimistically, she'd move like a video tape set for very slow progression, at worst she may as well be stationary. Not good if she wants Wally to even register her as a serious combatant.

#50 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity:

Even searching and finding all of those people individually that would put him at 2 to 300 times light speed at the most, 13 trillion is still way off from that. Wally can do the thing you say but they never seen to work on higher level characters than him, and we can only go by what we have seen him do. I could say potentially black bolt could kill galactus with his scream but until he does it I can only judge the level he's at now by what he has done so far.