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#51 Posted by GhostRavage (9320 posts) - - Show Bio

@_black: Because he hasn't done it to someone on SS tier and versatility. Humble question, has Flash ever speed steal Captain Atom?

#52 Edited by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm:

It doesn't matter WHAT power they're wielding. Surfer is still moving, and thus Wally can steal his speed.

#53 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage:

Yep. It doesn't matter how powerful or versatile they are, if they're moving he can steal their speed.

#54 Posted by MonsterStomp (19880 posts) - - Show Bio

@_black: Because he hasn't done it to someone on SS tier and versatility. Humble question, has Flash ever speed steal Captain Atom?

Has Flash fought Captain Atom? Or attempted to steal his speed for that matter? I can't recall.

#55 Posted by DanM (138 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarklordpandamonium: His speed comes from the power cosmic which is far superior to the speed force, similar to how the Flash was unable to steal Zoom's speed because it came from manipulating time.

#56 Edited by Dredeuced (5778 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm said:

@thedarklordpandamonium: His speed comes from the power cosmic which is far superior to the speed force, similar to how the Flash was unable to steal Zoom's speed because it came from manipulating time.

Why in the world do you think the Power Cosmic is more powerful than the Speed Force? One is literally an infinite energy source the permeates all realities and controls two fundamental constants of the universe (kinetic energy and time), the other is siphoning energy from stars and celestial bodies and junk to give various energy and matter manipulation abilities.

Flash can speed steal magical beings and people who get their powers from cosmic sources (Superman gets his from the Sun, for instance).

#57 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm:

Any story where the Flash can tag Zoom already makes no sense.

#58 Posted by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

@_black: Because he hasn't done it to someone on SS tier and versatility. Humble question, has Flash ever speed steal Captain Atom?

That's like saying Norrin can't hurt Wally because he's never hurt someone with the Speed Force. Speedstealing is a crazy power, but it's apart of Wally's skillset nonetheless. It is a viable tactic unless proven otherwise, and it can't be proven otherwise as Wally has never tried to steal Norrin's speed. I don't believe he has ever stolen Capt Atom's speed.

#59 Edited by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@_black:

Mmm he's done it to energy beings before which is what ghost ravage was asking.

#60 Posted by GhostRavage (9320 posts) - - Show Bio

@_black: Meh... I don't want to argue about this. Its too late for this kind of debate. Anyway, there's nothing yet that would change my mind about Speedstealing failing to some people. I believe its not something flawless... Also, everybody just ignored about all characters knowing everything about Flash. Someone as versatile and powerful as SS with this kind of info i can assume will come up with something.

#61 Edited by Supermanwithatan01 (3927 posts) - - Show Bio

Team wins....if we ignore Wally's powers plus add in CIS. Otherwise he's too much even for Norrin.

#62 Posted by DanM (138 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarklordpandamonium: The power cosmic has been stated on panel to be the building block of the universe, the very foundation of fabric of time and space. The Power cosmic gives the ability to manipulate cosmic energy and any other form of energy. This is far more diverse and brings forth a whole range of powers the speed force can't even touch.

#63 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm:

And this matters...why? Flash takes kinetic energy from things. It doesn't matter if they're energy beings or not.

#64 Posted by MonsterStomp (19880 posts) - - Show Bio

@_black: Meh... I don't want to argue about this. Its too late for this kind of debate. Anyway, there's nothing yet that would change my mind about Speedstealing failing to some people. I believe its not something flawless... Also, everybody just ignored about all characters knowing everything about Flash. Someone as versatile and powerful as SS with this kind of info i can assume will come up with something.

Sadly SS isn't doing anything in 1 minute of preparation to counter someone as fast as Flash.

#65 Posted by DanM (138 posts) - - Show Bio

Who's to say surfer cant use speed force power, it falls directly into the limitations of the power cosmic, he has control over the four fundamental forces of the universe. Not like it would matter anyhow seeing as he's given one minute prep time, that along with his cosmic awareness he will have the Flash transmuted into something completely harmless, maybe a toaster perhaps.

#66 Posted by GhostRavage (9320 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: Astral Plane before fight. What can Flash do about it?

#67 Posted by MonsterStomp (19880 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm said:

Who's to say surfer cant use speed force power, it falls directly into the limitations of the power cosmic, he has control over the four fundamental forces of the universe. Not like it would matter anyhow seeing as he's given one minute prep time, that along with his cosmic awareness he will have the Flash transmuted into something completely harmless, maybe a toaster perhaps.

The Speed Force is only found in the DC omniverse mate. Like the power cosmic is Marvel. SS doesn't have a counter to the SF!

#68 Edited by Juiceboks (10344 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm said:

Who's to say surfer cant use speed force power, it falls directly into the limitations of the power cosmic, he has control over the four fundamental forces of the universe. Not like it would matter anyhow seeing as he's given one minute prep time, that along with his cosmic awareness he will have the Flash transmuted into something completely harmless, maybe a toaster perhaps.

You mean other than the fact that it's an energy source native to a universe Norrin knows nothing about? You're speculating without presenting a shred of evidence to back it up(as if there is any). Also Norrin can't affect Flash during prep..if that wasn't the case then Flash would kill him before the fight even starts.

#69 Posted by MonsterStomp (19880 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: Astral Plane before fight. What can Flash do about it?

Wow. Astral Plane for one (1) minute and SS has it all figured out. SS won't know everything about the Flash in a minute. Superman is going to have to talk at hypersonic speeds to cover everything about the Flash in a minute.

#70 Edited by DanM (138 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: And Wally has no counter to the power cosmic, which theoretically given it's nature should be able to manipulate the speed force seeing as it's stated to be able to do so with any kind of energy, I see no reason why the speed force would be a exceptions. With the cosmic awareness SS will know everything about Flash in that given minute and will be left with time to spare and contemplate which of the many different ways he will use to dispose of him.

#71 Posted by GhostRavage (9320 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: You're just NOT getting the OP don't cha? THEY ALREADY KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERY CHARACTER! It only takes 1 second to enter Astral Plane... When Flash can do jack about it. They don't need to prep to know about Flash... They already know. -.-

#72 Posted by MonsterStomp (19880 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow.. SS has the worst fanboys.

#73 Posted by GhostRavage (9320 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: Why that makes me a fanboy? I don't even like SS that much... You on the contrary couldn't counter my statement so you decided to call me a fanboy for showing you your misinterpretation of the OP and elaborating an hypothetical scenario. Be my guess and think what you want, but that attitude is childish. Im out... And i won. *Peace!*

#74 Posted by DanM (138 posts) - - Show Bio

I would go out on a limb and say that the Flash has the worst fanboys these days, anyways the one minute of prep given to SS will be more than enough for him to use the power cosmic to shield himself from any possible blitzing and then simply use his matter manipulation/transmutation abilities to turn the Flash into a big pile of nothing.

#75 Posted by Juiceboks (10344 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage What would him going into the Astral Plane accomplish? The OP states they all start on the ground and that's all Wally needs to seal the deal.

#76 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3927 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: to be fair he's not a SS fanboy, he's just a Flash hater. The same 2-3 troll Flash threads and complain about the speed steal, IMP and the Speed Force in general. Just ignore em'.

#77 Edited by MonsterStomp (19880 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

@monsterstomp: Why that makes me a fanboy? I don't even like SS that much... You on the contrary couldn't counter my statement so you decided to call me a fanboy for showing you your misinterpretation of the OP and elaborating an hypothetical scenario. Be my guess and think what you want, but that attitude is childish. Im out... And i won. *Peace!*

I didn't call you out directly. I just said it because they don't elaborate on anything, which is also why I didn't counter the argument. Like you mentioning the Astral Plane, so what? Also.. You won? What are you 5?

@danm said:

I would go out on a limb and say that the Flash has the worst fanboys these days, anyways the one minute of prep given to SS will be more than enough for him to use the power cosmic to shield himself from any possible blitzing and then simply use his matter manipulation/transmutation abilities to turn the Flash into a big pile of nothing.

The nanosecond the fight starts, Flash just blitzed the sh*t out of everyone in the team.

#78 Posted by DanM (138 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: SS is given one minute of prep as stated by the OP, therefor being able to prepare a defense to counteract the blitz, surely the power cosmic can hold up against the Flash for a split second as that it all it would take to employ one of the numerous ways his mastery of matter manipulation/transmutation to put the Flash down, for good.

#79 Posted by MonsterStomp (19880 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm said:

@monsterstomp: SS is given one minute of prep as stated by the OP, therefor being able to prepare a defense to counteract the blitz, surely the power cosmic can hold up against the Flash for a split second as that it all it would take to employ one of the numerous ways his mastery of matter manipulation/transmutation to put the Flash down, for good.

What defence is SS going to put up? Scans please.

#80 Posted by DanM (138 posts) - - Show Bio

SS wields the power cosmic, this gives him the ability to manipulate cosmic energy and any other form of energy, he has control over the four fundamental forces of the universe. You honestly need scans proving SS could shield himself using such powers given a minutes prep time?

#81 Posted by MonsterStomp (19880 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm said:

SS wields the power cosmic, this gives him the ability to manipulate cosmic energy and any other form of energy, he has control over the four fundamental forces of the universe. You honestly need scans proving SS could shield himself using such powers given a minutes prep time?

You fail and this statement proves it.

#82 Posted by DanM (138 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp:

No, not really.

You just can't seem to understand that your precious Flash isn't all but invincible given this particular thread, there is a one minute prep time, SS has both the power cosmic and the cosmic awareness. The Speed force, speed steal or no amount of Infinite mass punches are going to save him here, SS has used his powers to create a black hole, travels half a million light years in seconds and tank a shot from Galactus yet you need proof of that power which he has time to use via the one minute of prep, shielding him and holding up long enough for the second it would take SS to turn Flash into a statue? Sounds like you are the one who fails here.

#83 Posted by Juiceboks (10344 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm said:

SS wields the power cosmic, this gives him the ability to manipulate cosmic energy and any other form of energy, he has control over the four fundamental forces of the universe. You honestly need scans proving SS could shield himself using such powers given a minutes prep time?

You can't just say that Silver Surfer wins because he manipulates the Power Cosmic. That doesn't fly when facing people like Flash. There's no doubt that Norrin can make shields(that's basic for any energy manipulator), whether his shields would hold against the force of a bloodlusted Wally's punch(let alone the thousands he could throw before Norrin can register his presence) is a completely different story.

#84 Posted by MonsterStomp (19880 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm: Saying the same thing over and over isn't helping your case... So just stop.

#85 Edited by DanM (138 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp:

There just seems to be no getting thru to you Flash fan boys here, nowhere other than this site will you see people take the Flash over the likes of SS/Odin level characters,If you want to cling to the notion that the Flash could throw a thousand IMP per whatever which he has never once shown coming close to doing anything near that then fine, if you want to believe that somehow the speed force trumps the power cosmic/Odin force that's also fine. Just remember that the Flash has never showcased the ability to fight anybody of this caliber one on one and for good reason. Anyways, I will try and steer clear of future Flash threads here to avoid such nonsense.

#86 Posted by MonsterStomp (19880 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm: Wow. I literally don't know what to say to such fanboyism...

#87 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

This is the kind of thread that makes comic vine look very very bad. This fight is laughable at best, not to mention none of you guys out there can provide scans of flash KOing a single top tier by himself without help.

#88 Posted by CHUCKY47 (254 posts) - - Show Bio
#89 Posted by DanM (138 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: Give me a break, you have Superman, Thor, WW, Hal Jordan and a cosmic powerhouse like SS all working together, all given prior prep time and complete knowledge of the Flash and you still won't even consider that Wally could lose?

#90 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm:

Just let it go, people around here are always saying flash can do stuff he's never done to higher level people. I'm hoping half of these guys don't even believe this stuff and they just call all there friends to post and get on people's nerves. Ill bet so

#91 Posted by MonsterStomp (19880 posts) - - Show Bio

@danm said:

@monsterstomp: Give me a break, you have Superman, Thor, WW, Hal Jordan and a cosmic powerhouse like SS all working together, all given prior prep time and complete knowledge of the Flash and you still won't even consider that Wally could lose?

You just don't understand how useless knowledge is when dealing with a bloodlusted Wally. Wally can turn everyone here into statues. No one here has a counter. "Oh but SS controls the four fundamentals of the universe", boo hoo have a cry, if it has speed and momentum, he can take it. Power Cosmic isn't going to stop it, and Speed Force can't stop the PC.

If SS does put up a said shield, Wally could phase through it. No one here has the speed to take/tag Wally!

#92 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp:

Dude that is rediculous if you read any flash comics. Post a scan of him doing that stuff to some well noted high level characters in a solo fight.... Right because there are no scan because that stuff only works on his enemies like the rogues or zoom, it's not going to work on a person that's on supermans level, or at least not good enough to get him a win

#93 Edited by heymanjack (716 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash is capable of Thousands of IMP in less than speedster can blink on a dude that's as tough as Superman.

Flash is capable of throwing IMP while hurt and standing still. Hits like a white dwarf star.

Flash is faster than instant teleportation. Look at the numbers.

Flash can phase people's brains out and become intangible

Flash can turn people into living statues (speed steal effect)

Flash in less than a few seconds was able to learn how to build a building and gather all materials needed to build it and actually build the building. Imagine what he could do in 5 minutes.

Flash can atomize people

and finally

#94 Posted by Perethorn (3570 posts) - - Show Bio

SS could solo. With one minute prep he could make Wally West a cow poo, could absorb such amounts of energy so that when Wally touches him, he blows up along with everything else, he can read Wally West mind and know what move he is going to make, he could travel through time and stop Wally from becoming The Flash.

Even if Flash attacks Surfer, all of his attempts will be useless, phasing does not work with The Surfer, speed steal is useless because SS board grants him unlimited energy, a billion IMP from Flash are not going to harm the Surfer.

SS is too much.

Online
#95 Posted by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

@moonman78: @ghostravage: Wally (or maybe it's Barry, no clue honestly) has used speed steal on Amazo before.

#96 Posted by heymanjack (716 posts) - - Show Bio

SS could solo. With one minute prep he could make Wally West a cow poo, could absorb such amounts of energy so that when Wally touches him, he blows up along with everything else, he can read Wally West mind and know what move he is going to make, he could travel through time and stop Wally from becoming The Flash.

Even if Flash attacks Surfer, all of his attempts will be useless, phasing does not work with The Surfer, speed steal is useless because SS board grants him unlimited energy, a billion IMP from Flash are not going to harm the Surfer.

SS is too much.

Flash can time travel too you know. He can even survive the void. You know, where even concepts don't exist.

#97 Posted by Perethorn (3570 posts) - - Show Bio

@perethorn said:

SS could solo. With one minute prep he could make Wally West a cow poo, could absorb such amounts of energy so that when Wally touches him, he blows up along with everything else, he can read Wally West mind and know what move he is going to make, he could travel through time and stop Wally from becoming The Flash.

Even if Flash attacks Surfer, all of his attempts will be useless, phasing does not work with The Surfer, speed steal is useless because SS board grants him unlimited energy, a billion IMP from Flash are not going to harm the Surfer.

SS is too much.

Flash can time travel too you know. He can even survive the void. You know, where even concepts don't exist.

SS can survive The Void too, he can survive in any type of conditions. And Flash is not smart enough to use Time Travel against the Surfer. In any case, he will attack him directly.

Online
#98 Posted by heymanjack (716 posts) - - Show Bio

@perethorn: What's stopping flash from knocking out SS? He can clearly do it faster than silver surfer can react.

#99 Edited by Perethorn (3570 posts) - - Show Bio

@heymanjack:

SS is insanely durable.

Even if Flash throws a billion of punches at Surfer, i doubt that he can KO him.

Online
#100 Posted by heymanjack (716 posts) - - Show Bio

@perethorn:

Do you have any more scans of Surfer's durability? The first and second one are about surfer being on fire by the sun? While impressive, I think flash's multiple punches are stronger than that.

The last scan, he wasn't even affected by the super-nova. Only the escaping gases catch the silver surfer. It would be nice if the actual explosion hit the surfer.

A few people have knocked out SS before (hulk, off the top my head) Flash can too.