vs
Flash vs Superman(New 52)
@dondave: he is probably faster but not by a huge margin. intangibilty can be useful but i doubt that he can win with it,the same goes for Speed force dump,since it tooks to him some seconds to trap grodd. he just won't have that time with supes.
however:
a giant superfast gorilla can defeat him.but if you add to him: the power to fly faster than light,enough strenght to move a planet,heat vision,cold breath,invulnerability,super intellect and super senses....well THAT is overkill to me.
My initial reaction was Supes, given he has a huge durability and strength advantage, and he has shown to be able to tag Barry already in the New-52. But...that was prior to Barry discovering Speed Mind and before he learned how to use the speed force/speed force dump...I'd give it to Barry 7/10
Flash can handle Supes but it's going to be a hard one.
@toptom The reason why Flash is almost beaten by Grodd is just to create an interesting story. Also, if flash uses his full potential, idk if Superman - with his flight, X-ray and heat vision, etc. -can even see him move.
I dont know if this still counts because this is Pre 52, but imagine what Flash can do with all his speed. Superman can't even compete with him.
@benette_rivera: superman has tagged flash a LOT of times in the pre-52 universe. he was always able to compete with him,except in that scan. however in that comic superman was RUNNING and not FLYING,plus flash was running so fast that he was sucked by the speed force.still in a later comic,supes managed to reach barry.
you say that flash was almost beaten by grodd just to create an interesting story, but that is not really true. an enhanched grood is a huge threat for him,and the only thing he could do was sending him into the speed force. this flash gets tagged a lot of times,superman has almost defeated him with one finger and supergirl has almost killed him, he had to use some kinetic cannons to put her down. flash is not winning this match.
by the way,for now at least,superman can even fly faster than barry can run. (for example he has flown from pluto to earth in under a minute).
@toptom said:
@benette_rivera: superman has tagged flash a LOT of times in the pre-52 universe. he was always able to compete with him,except in that scan. however in that comic superman was RUNNING and not FLYING,plus flash was running so fast that he was sucked by the speed force.still in a later comic,supes managed to reach barry.
you say that flash was almost beaten by grodd just to create an interesting story, but that is not really true. an enhanched grood is a huge threat for him,and the only thing he could do was sending him into the speed force. this flash gets tagged a lot of times,superman has almost defeated him with one finger and supergirl has almost killed him, he had to use some kinetic cannons to put her down. flash is not winning this match.
by the way,for now at least,superman can even fly faster than barry can run. (for example he has flown from pluto to earth in under a minute).
Barry hasn't shown an upper limit yet in the new-52. Also, Supes hasn't shown reaction time that fast, which is what is more important here. Supes tagged Barry ONCE in the New-52, prior to Barry discovering the Speed Mind. With the Speed Mind, he's like Midnighter on steroids - he can play out every single possible event unfolding around him countless times before it happens, and THEN react w/ FTL reaction time (which Supes DOESNT have - see EVERY TIME he's been tagged) and you have someone who, in a straight up fight, can't be tagged (at least by Supes). He can also take Supes into the speed force, where he has shown to be able to speed up/slow down people at a whim, so he could either send supes careening off to his doom or (functionally) speed steal him. It would take a lot to put Supes down, but Barry could eventually, and Supes simply can't hit him.
@Equonox said:
@toptom said:
@benette_rivera: superman has tagged flash a LOT of times in the pre-52 universe. he was always able to compete with him,except in that scan. however in that comic superman was RUNNING and not FLYING,plus flash was running so fast that he was sucked by the speed force.still in a later comic,supes managed to reach barry.
you say that flash was almost beaten by grodd just to create an interesting story, but that is not really true. an enhanched grood is a huge threat for him,and the only thing he could do was sending him into the speed force. this flash gets tagged a lot of times,superman has almost defeated him with one finger and supergirl has almost killed him, he had to use some kinetic cannons to put her down. flash is not winning this match.
by the way,for now at least,superman can even fly faster than barry can run. (for example he has flown from pluto to earth in under a minute).
Barry hasn't shown an upper limit yet in the new-52. Also, Supes hasn't shown reaction time that fast, which is what is more important here. Supes tagged Barry ONCE in the New-52, prior to Barry discovering the Speed Mind. With the Speed Mind, he's like Midnighter on steroids - he can play out every single possible event unfolding around him countless times before it happens, and THEN react w/ FTL reaction time (which Supes DOESNT have - see EVERY TIME he's been tagged) and you have someone who, in a straight up fight, can't be tagged (at least by Supes). He can also take Supes into the speed force, where he has shown to be able to speed up/slow down people at a whim, so he could either send supes careening off to his doom or (functionally) speed steal him. It would take a lot to put Supes down, but Barry could eventually, and Supes simply can't hit him.
barry hasn't showed an upper limit yes,but even superman has not showed it yet.
then yes,kal has tagged him before( but i am not so shure) he discovered his speed mind, but that would not change anything. even after his "speed mind" flash gets slashed over and over by cheetah,gets tagged by grodd (multiple times),he gets tagged by his gorilla soldiers(multiple times),he gets tagged by supergirl and by the rouges (also here,multiple times).
so summarizing,superman can tag him while barry can not hurt him. the flash has send grodd into the speed force but that tooks several seconds to him.he simply won't have that time with superman.
his Speed Mind enables him to see every possible outcome in a battle and to choose the best strategy but he can not change what is inevitable. so,if he uses his mind here he can just see how many times and in how many ways he will get killed.(or koed,you choose.)
@toptom said:
@Equonox said:
@toptom said:
@benette_rivera: superman has tagged flash a LOT of times in the pre-52 universe. he was always able to compete with him,except in that scan. however in that comic superman was RUNNING and not FLYING,plus flash was running so fast that he was sucked by the speed force.still in a later comic,supes managed to reach barry.
you say that flash was almost beaten by grodd just to create an interesting story, but that is not really true. an enhanched grood is a huge threat for him,and the only thing he could do was sending him into the speed force. this flash gets tagged a lot of times,superman has almost defeated him with one finger and supergirl has almost killed him, he had to use some kinetic cannons to put her down. flash is not winning this match.
by the way,for now at least,superman can even fly faster than barry can run. (for example he has flown from pluto to earth in under a minute).
Barry hasn't shown an upper limit yet in the new-52. Also, Supes hasn't shown reaction time that fast, which is what is more important here. Supes tagged Barry ONCE in the New-52, prior to Barry discovering the Speed Mind. With the Speed Mind, he's like Midnighter on steroids - he can play out every single possible event unfolding around him countless times before it happens, and THEN react w/ FTL reaction time (which Supes DOESNT have - see EVERY TIME he's been tagged) and you have someone who, in a straight up fight, can't be tagged (at least by Supes). He can also take Supes into the speed force, where he has shown to be able to speed up/slow down people at a whim, so he could either send supes careening off to his doom or (functionally) speed steal him. It would take a lot to put Supes down, but Barry could eventually, and Supes simply can't hit him.
barry hasn't showed an upper limit yes,but even superman has not showed it yet.
then yes,kal has tagged him before( but i am not so shure) he discovered his speed mind, but that would not change anything. even after his "speed mind" flash gets slashed over and over by cheetah,gets tagged by grodd (multiple times),he gets tagged by his gorilla soldiers(multiple times),he gets tagged by supergirl and by the rouges (also here,multiple times).
so summarizing,superman can tag him while barry can not hurt him. the flash has send grodd into the speed force but that tooks several seconds to him.he simply won't have that time with superman.
his Speed Mind enables him to see every possible outcome in a battle and to choose the best strategy but he can not change what is inevitable. so,if he uses his mind here he can just see how many times and in how many ways he will get killed.(or koed,you choose.)
Cheetah was clearly PIS and caught flash unsuspecting (he had no idea she was there until she attacked), and both her and Grodd are WAY faster than Supes, reaction-wise.
In the New-52, Grodd has access to speed force energy - he's way faster than supes. (Also, like I said before Supes' reaction time is just horrible...he gets hit by everything). If Barry does get him in the speed force, it's over.
You're severely underestimating the Speed Mind ability...if he can evaluate the result of every possible move, Supes can never tag him.
@boostergold321 said:
@Equinox
So, Flash has total control over the entire space-time continuum? DC has made Flash God!
Where did I say that? Inside the Speed Force he was able to send off Grodd like it was nothing...never said he controlled space/time in or out of the Speed Force, just that inside of it he seems to be able to control the speed of everyone else inside of it
@xxxddd said:
@Ferdelance said:
@TheTmac said:
Morals off Flash wins. Morals on Supes wins.
This is morals on.
Pre 52 Flash or New 52 Flash.
New 52 Flash loses.
Pre 52 Flash probably wins but has to use Speed Force. Without it Superman will win. He is stronger than his older version. One good shot and the fight is over.
It doesn't matter if Speed Mind lets him calculate every possible outcome: Barry still has to choose the correct one.
Superman for the win.
@Equonox said:
@toptom said:
@Equonox said:
@toptom said:
@benette_rivera: superman has tagged flash a LOT of times in the pre-52 universe. he was always able to compete with him,except in that scan. however in that comic superman was RUNNING and not FLYING,plus flash was running so fast that he was sucked by the speed force.still in a later comic,supes managed to reach barry.
you say that flash was almost beaten by grodd just to create an interesting story, but that is not really true. an enhanched grood is a huge threat for him,and the only thing he could do was sending him into the speed force. this flash gets tagged a lot of times,superman has almost defeated him with one finger and supergirl has almost killed him, he had to use some kinetic cannons to put her down. flash is not winning this match.
by the way,for now at least,superman can even fly faster than barry can run. (for example he has flown from pluto to earth in under a minute).
Barry hasn't shown an upper limit yet in the new-52. Also, Supes hasn't shown reaction time that fast, which is what is more important here. Supes tagged Barry ONCE in the New-52, prior to Barry discovering the Speed Mind. With the Speed Mind, he's like Midnighter on steroids - he can play out every single possible event unfolding around him countless times before it happens, and THEN react w/ FTL reaction time (which Supes DOESNT have - see EVERY TIME he's been tagged) and you have someone who, in a straight up fight, can't be tagged (at least by Supes). He can also take Supes into the speed force, where he has shown to be able to speed up/slow down people at a whim, so he could either send supes careening off to his doom or (functionally) speed steal him. It would take a lot to put Supes down, but Barry could eventually, and Supes simply can't hit him.
barry hasn't showed an upper limit yes,but even superman has not showed it yet.
then yes,kal has tagged him before( but i am not so shure) he discovered his speed mind, but that would not change anything. even after his "speed mind" flash gets slashed over and over by cheetah,gets tagged by grodd (multiple times),he gets tagged by his gorilla soldiers(multiple times),he gets tagged by supergirl and by the rouges (also here,multiple times).
so summarizing,superman can tag him while barry can not hurt him. the flash has send grodd into the speed force but that tooks several seconds to him.he simply won't have that time with superman.
his Speed Mind enables him to see every possible outcome in a battle and to choose the best strategy but he can not change what is inevitable. so,if he uses his mind here he can just see how many times and in how many ways he will get killed.(or koed,you choose.)
Cheetah was clearly PIS and caught flash unsuspecting (he had no idea she was there until she attacked), and both her and Grodd are WAY faster than Supes, reaction-wise.
In the New-52, Grodd has access to speed force energy - he's way faster than supes. (Also, like I said before Supes' reaction time is just horrible...he gets hit by everything). If Barry does get him in the speed force, it's over.
You're severely underestimating the Speed Mind ability...if he can evaluate the result of every possible move, Supes can never tag him.
@boostergold321 said:
@Equinox
So, Flash has total control over the entire space-time continuum? DC has made Flash God!
Where did I say that? Inside the Speed Force he was able to send off Grodd like it was nothing...never said he controlled space/time in or out of the Speed Force, just that inside of it he seems to be able to control the speed of everyone else inside of it
..oh..god...
cheetah was not PIS,of course.she is just fast enough to catch him or she is fast enough to take him by surprise (2 or 3 times in a single fight).it is not hard to accept. flash gets tagged a lot of times by a lot of enemies and it is not always PIS,it is part of his character.
"both her and Grodd are WAY faster than Supes, reaction-wise."well,i suppose it's up to you to prove that statement,since they haven't done anything really impressive that is above what supes can do.
(by the way barry gets tagged multiple times by grodd's soldiers. is it always pis?)
"In the New-52, Grodd has access to speed force energy - he's way faster than supes. (Also, like I said before Supes' reaction time is just horrible...he gets hit by everything)"he has acess to the speed force not in the same way as barry does,he is not as fast as him and we don't know how much difference in speed there is even beetwen flash AND supes. if we go by actual feats ( and not just with false and unsupported statements) superman can fly 300x light speed. that's about 300 times faster than the flash has ever run since the new-52. then you say that superman reflexes are HORRIBLE..because he gets tagged by EVERYTHING...lol. well, he has the luck to be invulnerable and he even wears an indestructible armor so he can take some punishment,but for your information he doesn't use always his superspeed ,but sometimes,when he gets hit, is just because he is facing guys like helspont or he'l that can erase barry with a tought.
"You're severely underestimating the Speed Mind ability...if he can evaluate the result of every possible move, Supes can never tag him." i am not understimating anything,i believe that i have just a more clear idea than you about wath barry can do or can not do. barry has obtained that "speed mind" since flash#2, now we are at flash#17 and he gets tagged aaalll the way,but i don't want to reapet myself over and over. however barry is not the only one that has a super mind. kal was able to read and learn EVERY SINGLE MEDICAL TEXT EVER PUBLISHED in seconds,or he has proved that is brain his BILLIONS time faster than a super computer.( and i am not exagerating when i say billions,since he was capable to perform a task that would have required YEARS to a super-computer,in seconds). so he can compete with him even in that department.
so in the end: flash can not hurt superman badly,while superman can almost ko him with zero effort,using one finger. or he can smack his head like supergirl did 1 month ago. barry can just TRY to dump him into the speed force but that would require some time...and in that time superman can blast him with hv,freeze him,thunderclapping him away....or..he can just take the air to be safe from him.
kal takes this 10/10 untill the flash doesn't perform some high end feat that can be usefull in this fight.
Barry would avoid him for awhile, but unless he's bloodlusted and tries to kill/cripple him using his phasing, I don't see how Barry can even hurt Supes. Supes eventually wins.
You know, I never got why Barry couldn't fly. Running on water is the same principle as running on air -- you're just moving so fast that aero/fluid dynamics don't being to act and you can gain traction on what is essentially solid relative to your speed. But comics ain't known for their physics.
@Equonox said:
(Also, like I said before Supes' reaction time is just horrible...he gets hit by everything).
Because he is invulnerable and the writers would prefer to have him in a fist fight rather than dodging every attack. PIS works both ways.
@toptom: Flash is faster than all of supes attack. Even heat vision can't keep up with the flash. This is not 10/10 for supes. Superman is strong but he's too stupid to get knocked out by almost anyone..Ocean Master anyone? Also, before supes can fly, remember that he is touching the ground, he can be tagged by flash before he can fly (Supes reaction time is CRAP). Also, Flash doesn't need to touch someone for him to send anyone in the speed force. All he has to do is tap into it. I'm not saying flash takes this but this fight could go both ways. Flash can win, supes can win.
@benette_rivera said:
@toptom: Flash is faster than all of supes attack. Even heat vision can't keep up with the flash. This is not 10/10 for supes. Superman is strong but he's too stupid to get knocked out by almost anyone..Ocean Master anyone? Also, before supes can fly, remember that he is touching the ground, he can be tagged by flash before he can fly (Supes reaction time is CRAP). Also, Flash doesn't need to touch someone for him to send anyone in the speed force. All he has to do is tap into it. I'm not saying flash takes this but this fight could go both ways. Flash can win, supes can win.
"Flash is faster than all of supes attack" i don't think so. if superman flies against something he is faster...by much.for now.
"Superman is strong but he's too stupid to get knocked out by almost anyone..Ocean Master anyone?" ocean master sucker blasted supes,probably with a magical lighting that was strongh enough to ko him with ww and aquaman. many consider that as PIS ( i do) but that doesn't change anything. (..umm..by the way superman is far from being stupid,and i mean reeeally far)
"before supes can fly, remember that he is touching the ground, he can be tagged by flash before he can fly" ....and then? this flash has not demostred yet to be able to REMOTELY harm supes, and his speed force dup is far from being instantaneus. plus his reaction time is FAR from being CRAP(...smh) as you say. he fast enough to tag the flash while smiling.that's pretty god to me.
...so THIS flash has not got ANY way to win this battle ( for now as i have alredy said).the end.
@xxxddd said:
@SpectresWrath01 said:
Pre 52 Flash or New 52 Flash.
The title says "New 52." Couldn't think I could be more obvious...
The title says Flash vs Superman (New 52) its only behind Superman. Reguardless I was just making sure.
@dredeuced: Barry done anything impressive lately? That puts him close to Wally? (The real one).
Bump.
Out of context scans... put of context scans everywhere... Supes wins...hmmmmm....5.25/10
IDK people jjust keep claiming supes us almost as fast as flash. And while barry is kinda weak... I honestly still can't tell how much faster he is... or if it's enough to SpeedForce dump Kal before he reacts...
@dredeuced: Barry done anything impressive lately? That puts him close to Wally? (The real one).
Bump.
The ways barry wins are a phasing attack (took out MMH fairly quickly) or speed force dump. The main problem is obviously flight and Barry's limited range (I won't assume he can speed force dump at any distance greater than the distance he used against Grodd).
Basically, if Barry's willing to, he can quite easily win, but the two moves I'm mentioning he's only used once a piece. A good argument for why he would use them is he uses his speed mind to determine that that's the only way for him to win.
Barry's obviously not even in the same ball park as Wally.
@koshi_waza88: Barry hasn't used Infinite mass punch in the New 52
Superman one shot flash no matter what, one hit from superman and it´s overkill
No it's not. Literally every incarnation of Flash since COIE has taken and survived hits from people who hit harder than superman on a regular basis, with the possible exception of New 52 Jay Garrick.
@koshi_waza88: Its not a strategy he has yet thought of.
@experio: just listing options.. as far as I know barry has never used it but it could happen... superman has not moved the moon by hand yet but everyone is thinking it and that influences people's judgment
Superman CAN'T move the moon by hand. Pre-new 52 he needed Kyle and Wonder Woman helping him and still showed massive strain.
Flash is simply far faster than Clark. He's had converastions between the nanoseconds, something even the faster pre-new 52 Superman couldn't do.
@highaccuser: Superman will kill flash. Speed doesn't make a damn thing on Superman on it's own. Not even close.
If superman bench presses the earth which is 5 times the size off the moon you bet your ass he could move the moon with one hand. The surface of the moon is the size of Asia but the weight of the moon is only 1.2% of the earth. So yeah he can move it, Question is should he.
Superman wouldn't do it for few reasons since his area of effect on the moon is too small he would basically tear a hole into the core when pushing on it since the bedrock on the moon is more brittle then steel unless they wanted him to push and pull the earth like back in the day, a dozen planets chained together. Even not so long ago Hal Jordan casted light construct over the earth so Superman could pull it is safely from harms way. It has nothing to do if he can move it on his own more about that he shouldn't do it. If the writers know anything about what they are writing and anyone else with some high school background they would see this too.
One more thing, you need to understand that he is just not moving a planets mass in space he is also breaking it free from it's current orbit, he is working against the gravitational pull from the sun as well. That requires more strength then just lifting a celestial body.
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment