Flash vs Superman and Martian Manhunter

- Flash is Wally West, pre Flashpoint characters

- Morals off, fight is on the indestructible planet

- No telepathy for Martian, who wins and why?

Superman and Martian win because they are both stronger and posses superspeed (they are not as fast as Flash, but they could catch up somehow and just uppercut his ass)

Superman and MM.

Mainly because of J'onn.

@blackadamFTW said:

Superman and MM.

Mainly because of J'onn.

And considering Superman is stronger than J'Onn, faster than J'Onn, and telepathy is barred from the fight, why is it going to be mostly because of him?

Anyways, Flash gets beat pretty bad. He'd lost a majority to Superman, maybe J'Onn too, but it wouldn't be a stomp in either. But together? Stomped.

team takes this

@Delta1938: J'onns intangibility, shapeshifting, invisibility, and EQUAL strength to Supes makes him the main factor.

@blackadamFTW said:

@Delta1938: J'onns intangibility, shapeshifting, invisibility, and EQUAL strength to Supes makes him the main factor.

And considering how much faster Flash is than J'Onn, I don't see those, especially shape shifting and invisibility(something Flash has gotten around) are going to be any factors. And J'Onn's strength is equal to Superman in his dreams.

Superman and MM.

@Delta1938: J'onn could probably negate Flash's speed steal, and could shapeshift to lessen Flash's blows.

Superman only has one feat to put him above Manhunter, and that was him giving everything he had. We've never seen Manhunter go all out, so yeah....

@blackadamFTW said:

@Delta1938: J'onn could probably negate Flash's speed steal, and could shapeshift to lessen Flash's blows.

Superman only has one feat to put him above Manhunter, and that was him giving everything he had. We've never seen Manhunter go all out, so yeah....

Zum and that other white Martian didn't seem to have any success at lessening Flash's blows when he one-shot them. And how exactly would J'Onn negate Flash's speed stealing?

As for Superman only has one feat to put him above J'onn, which are you talking about? Where he was in an inferior position and still overpowered J'Onn in CRISIS OF CONSCIOUSNESS, where J'Onn had help from Wonder Woman, Barda and more and still they barely restrained him and WW said even all of them together couldn't hold him for long, the time where J'Onn, Power Girl, Kilowog and a whole bunch more all tried restraining Superman and failed, or the times he actually hurt Doomsday hand-to-hand then J'Onn and Orion tried got beat down, or other similar examples?

@Delta1938 said:

@blackadamFTW said:

@Delta1938: J'onns intangibility, shapeshifting, invisibility, and EQUAL strength to Supes makes him the main factor.

And considering how much faster Flash is than J'Onn, I don't see those, especially shape shifting and invisibility(something Flash has gotten around) are going to be any factors. And J'Onn's strength is equal to Superman in his dreams.

Read again and please see bold.

@KMART4455 said:

@Delta1938 said:

@blackadamFTW said:

@Delta1938: J'onns intangibility, shapeshifting, invisibility, and EQUAL strength to Supes makes him the main factor.

And considering how much faster Flash is than J'Onn, I don't see those, especially shape shifting and invisibility(something Flash has gotten around) are going to be any factors. And J'Onn's strength is equal to Superman in his dreams.

Read again and please see bold.

Flash can go intangible, too, and leave a destructive charge through what he vibrates. And he's got morals off in this fight. I don't think J'Onn wants to go there.

Could Flash just steal Superman's speed and turn him into statue?

@Delta1938: MM>>>>>>white martians.

I was talking about Megaddon. Also, J'onn hold back way more than Superman does. The instances you said, Supes probably wasn't holding back, and guess what, J'onn probably was. When he didn't hold back, he punked SBP. Sinestro, too.

@blackadamFTW said:

@Delta1938: MM>>>>>>white martians.

I was talking about Megaddon. Also, J'onn hold back way more than Superman does. The instances you said, Supes probably wasn't holding back, and guess what, J'onn probably was. When he didn't hold back, he punked SBP. Sinestro, too.

You're pretty delusional if you think he was holding back when mind controlled by Despero(and it was a strength thing, not a fight, so you can't argue J'Onn was fighting less effectively), or the fact that the JLA was trying to kill Superman when J'Onn barely restrained Superman with help from a bunch of others, or that he was being made more ruthless by the influence of the Blackrock. No, no siree, none of those are legitimate examples of Superman being blatantly stronger by quite a bit(at the least) than J'Onn, huh? By the way, that last sentence was sarcastic.

Oh and J'Onn>>>>>>>white Martians? Tell that to Primaid.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Comparing/White%20Martians/Martian%20Manhunter/VS%20Primaid/

team wins

@blackadamFTW: Ya know what? This is going off-topic. If you want to continue, there's a Martian Manhunter VS Superman thread already. Go argue there. This is about Flash VS Superman and Martian Manhunter, not Superman VS Martian Manhunter.

@Delta1938: J'onn's also beaten multiple White Martians at once.

@Delta1938: I agree.

@blackadamFTW said:

@Delta1938: J'onn's also beaten multiple White Martians at once.

@Delta1938: I agree.

Context, BAFTW, context. And are you going to go there?

Depends on how far apart the combatants start off. Considering Wally has no morals in this fight, he could just as easily throw in a few dozen good hits before either Manhunter or Superman react.

Wally speed force BFR's J'onn before he can blink, then runs with a speed stolen Superman to the nearest Red Sun and proceed's to One-Inch-Mass-Punch him for the kill.

@Deranged Midget said:

Depends on how far apart the combatants start off. Considering Wally has no morals in this fight, he could just as easily throw in a few dozen good hits before either Manhunter or Superman react.

If it was just one-on-one, or they had morals but he didn't, I could see that. But OP simply says "morals off" which I assume means for both, so he could be attacking one while the other counter attacks, and then the attacked one recovers and he'd have to deal with both.

@Delta1938 said:

@Deranged Midget said:

Depends on how far apart the combatants start off. Considering Wally has no morals in this fight, he could just as easily throw in a few dozen good hits before either Manhunter or Superman react.

If it was just one-on-one, or they had morals but he didn't, I could see that. But OP simply says "morals off" which I assume means for both, so he could be attacking one while the other counter attacks, and then the attacked one recovers and he'd have to deal with both.

A definite possibility but Wally is far faster than both J'onn and Clark, so he still has the better chance of landing successful hits on both of them.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Delta1938 said:

@Deranged Midget said:

Depends on how far apart the combatants start off. Considering Wally has no morals in this fight, he could just as easily throw in a few dozen good hits before either Manhunter or Superman react.

If it was just one-on-one, or they had morals but he didn't, I could see that. But OP simply says "morals off" which I assume means for both, so he could be attacking one while the other counter attacks, and then the attacked one recovers and he'd have to deal with both.

A definite possibility but Wally is far faster than both J'onn and Clark, so he still has the better chance of landing successful hits on both of them.

Morals off though doesn't mean he's going all-out or fighting the most effective way possible. I mean yeah if Wally starts the fight where he's already ran laps around the equator then yeah. But with their versatility and flight I think under a random encounter, he'll have more trouble with their morals being off too.

@Delta1938 said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@Delta1938 said:

@Deranged Midget said:

Depends on how far apart the combatants start off. Considering Wally has no morals in this fight, he could just as easily throw in a few dozen good hits before either Manhunter or Superman react.

If it was just one-on-one, or they had morals but he didn't, I could see that. But OP simply says "morals off" which I assume means for both, so he could be attacking one while the other counter attacks, and then the attacked one recovers and he'd have to deal with both.

A definite possibility but Wally is far faster than both J'onn and Clark, so he still has the better chance of landing successful hits on both of them.

Morals off though doesn't mean he's going all-out or fighting the most effective way possible. I mean yeah if Wally starts the fight where he's already ran laps around the equator then yeah. But with their versatility and flight I think under a random encounter, he'll have more trouble with their morals being off too.

Never stated it would be easy nor that he would win, just that he's far faster than both of his opponents and has the best chance of striking first.

Wally destroys both. He's the biggest jokester in the league, he's also the most powerful member. Speed steal, speed lend, Reaction speed is picasecond timing. He hits with INFINITE MASS (faster than light requires this), he could fight Zoom around the world in less tan a second while Supes didn't know what was happening. If Flash was bloodlusted Supes and J'onn are beaten to death.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Delta1938 said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@Delta1938 said:

@Deranged Midget said:

Depends on how far apart the combatants start off. Considering Wally has no morals in this fight, he could just as easily throw in a few dozen good hits before either Manhunter or Superman react.

If it was just one-on-one, or they had morals but he didn't, I could see that. But OP simply says "morals off" which I assume means for both, so he could be attacking one while the other counter attacks, and then the attacked one recovers and he'd have to deal with both.

A definite possibility but Wally is far faster than both J'onn and Clark, so he still has the better chance of landing successful hits on both of them.

Morals off though doesn't mean he's going all-out or fighting the most effective way possible. I mean yeah if Wally starts the fight where he's already ran laps around the equator then yeah. But with their versatility and flight I think under a random encounter, he'll have more trouble with their morals being off too.

Never stated it would be easy nor that he would win, just that he's far faster than both of his opponents and has the best chance of striking first.

Yeah, but against a couple of guys who are pretty fast themselves, and he'd have to work to try to put either down, I think they can properly counter attack.

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

Wally destroys both. He's the biggest jokester in the league, he's also the most powerful member. Speed steal, speed lend, Reaction speed is picasecond timing. He hits with INFINITE MASS (faster than light requires this), he could fight Zoom around the world in less tan a second while Supes didn't know what was happening. If Flash was bloodlusted Supes and J'onn are beaten to death.

No, Flash is not the most powerful member. And you do know Superman can also do the IMP, right?

@Delta1938 said:

Yeah, but against a couple of guys who are pretty fast themselves, and he'd have to work to try to put either down, I think they can properly counter attack.

I never said they couldn't produce a counter-attack themselves but Wally also has the advantage of absorbing the speed from both J'onn and and Clark rendering them utterly exposed to Wally's already massive speed advantage.

Flash. anyone who thinks otherwise for "Intangability" and "TP" should re-read Blackest night. and that was Barry Allen, who was holding back, and still slower than Wally.

It wouldn't matter if J'onzz had telepathy since it doesn't work Wally when he's moving.
Also Wally has one-shotted J'onzz already.
Wally wins.
BB

@Deranged Midget said:

@Delta1938 said:

Yeah, but against a couple of guys who are pretty fast themselves, and he'd have to work to try to put either down, I think they can properly counter attack.

I never said they couldn't produce a counter-attack themselves but Wally also has the advantage of absorbing the speed from both J'onn and and Clark rendering them utterly exposed to Wally's already massive speed advantage.

But the OP didn't state Wally was fighting theoretically, just morals off. Meaning he wouldn't avoid being rough or lethal when need-be. Unless it was CIS off I don't see him automatically stealing speed so he can't be attacked.

@Billy Batson said:

It wouldn't matter if J'onzz had telepathy since it doesn't work Wally.
Also Wally has one-shotted J'onzz already.
Wally wins.
BB

Where? I know he's one-shot white Martians before so I wouldn't doubt he could one-shot J'Onn, but where has he actually one-shot J'Onn?

Wally with morals off.

Sadly, Wally wins this. With his reactionary time coupled with his speed steal, he should be able to land thousands of blows on both of them before they can react. 
And, Off-Topic: While I agree that J'onn is more powerful than Superman, I disagree that his physical abilities( Speed, Strength, Durability) match Supermans. I've never seen anything to suggest that. 

@Delta1938 said:

But the OP didn't state Wally was fighting theoretically, just morals off. Meaning he wouldn't avoid being rough or lethal when need-be. Unless it was CIS off I don't see him automatically stealing speed so he can't be attacked.

Morals off would insinuate that he would let loose, fight without his normal restrictions, break free from the norm. You keep assuming that he'll continually fight with the best of intentions.

@buttersdaman000 said:

@Delta1938: Usually morals off means that the character is fighting to the best of their ability, meaning that CIS would be off

@Deranged Midget said:

@Delta1938 said:

But the OP didn't state Wally was fighting theoretically, just morals off. Meaning he wouldn't avoid being rough or lethal when need-be. Unless it was CIS off I don't see him automatically stealing speed so he can't be attacked.

Morals off would insinuate that he would let loose, fight without his normal restrictions, break free from the norm. You keep assuming that he'll continually fight with the best of intentions.

I don't see morals being off like that. All it says to me is they wouldn't worry about being rough or doing something that would cause more harm than necessary. Nor even going all-out.

@Delta1938 said:

I don't see morals being off like that. All it says to me is they wouldn't worry about being rough or doing something that would cause more harm than necessary. Nor even going all-out.

Which is basically what I stated. Wally won't hesitate to steal Clark/J'onn's speed during the battle since he would care less what would happen to his (former) teammates.

Flash curbstomps.

Wally IS the most powerful in the league. Without CIS he'd win almost all of his battles. On top of that he's Blood lusted? I see no reason why he can't Blitz here.

@SpideyPresence said:

Wally IS the most powerful in the league. Without CIS he'd win almost all of his battles. On top of that he's Blood lusted? I see no reason why he can't Blitz here.

Morals off, not bloodlusted.

And that's what Wally does...is blitz.

@NerdsFTW: Either way it's a curbstomp in his favor.

@SpideyPresence said:

@NerdsFTW: Either way it's a curbstomp in his favor.

That's why I said Flash curbstomps.

Wally West can travel fast than thought, attack at trillions of times FTL, throw an IMP(Infinite Mass Punch) that put down Superman in one punch, react on a femtosecond by femtosecond basis(1 quadrilltionth of a second),etc.

Wally West is overpowered.

Wally is the most powerful member on the League and to be quite honest, I see him having more of a trouble with Martian than Supes.

@NerdsFTW: Agreed.

@Delta1938 said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@Delta1938 said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@Delta1938 said:

@Deranged Midget said:

Depends on how far apart the combatants start off. Considering Wally has no morals in this fight, he could just as easily throw in a few dozen good hits before either Manhunter or Superman react.

If it was just one-on-one, or they had morals but he didn't, I could see that. But OP simply says "morals off" which I assume means for both, so he could be attacking one while the other counter attacks, and then the attacked one recovers and he'd have to deal with both.

A definite possibility but Wally is far faster than both J'onn and Clark, so he still has the better chance of landing successful hits on both of them.

Morals off though doesn't mean he's going all-out or fighting the most effective way possible. I mean yeah if Wally starts the fight where he's already ran laps around the equator then yeah. But with their versatility and flight I think under a random encounter, he'll have more trouble with their morals being off too.

Never stated it would be easy nor that he would win, just that he's far faster than both of his opponents and has the best chance of striking first.

Yeah, but against a couple of guys who are pretty fast themselves, and he'd have to work to try to put either down, I think they can properly counter attack.

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

Wally destroys both. He's the biggest jokester in the league, he's also the most powerful member. Speed steal, speed lend, Reaction speed is picasecond timing. He hits with INFINITE MASS (faster than light requires this), he could fight Zoom around the world in less tan a second while Supes didn't know what was happening. If Flash was bloodlusted Supes and J'onn are beaten to death.

No, Flash is not the most powerful member. And you do know Superman can also do the IMP, right?

haha Superman is noo where, NO WHERE, near as fast as West. The Flashes powerset allow them to be practically unbeatable if bloodlusted. Superman couldn't do anything to Wally after a speed steal and 1000 IMP's before Supes could blink. Superman has superspeed, true enough, he does not however have even close to reaction time that Wally, Barry, or Bart have. They can become intangible, Hit as hard as he can, dodge every hit he throws, Wally could render him motionless by stealing his kinetic energy (DONE before), vibrate THROUGH him to destroy him. Wally tore up a PC Mongul that slaps superman around without trying. Wally nearly killed him by accident. This isn't in character, DCAU sweethearted fight. This is Bloodlusted pissed off Wally's out for blood fight. If Hunter and Wally ever teamed up, they could kill anyone that opposed them (including barry and bart) steal powerful objects to gain more power then own DC Universe. This isn't a fight. Wally pounds superman and J'onn, whooping that ass up and down the block before anyone knows there was a fight. He thinks faster, reacts quicker, hits harder and holds back more than anyone in the justice league.

Supes wouldn't be able to see a bloodlusted West, J'onns only advantage would have been telepathy but Barry has negated that with the speed force before and Wally (Or Barry idk) sped up his thoughts during Blackest night so Black Lantern MM couldn't do anything. Wally > Barry >> MM > Superman.

Feel free to ask me to address any questions, comments or concerns.

Martian Manhunter and Superman take this. Superman alone would be a major problem for Flash.

Team stomps!!!

I'm afraid Clark and J'onn get completely destroyed here.

Absolutely destroyed.

Neither of them have any defense against the speed steal. Wally just touches them, and turns them both into statues.

I can see why someone would make this battle, it seems fair on the surface, but its a stomp.

Flash is hands down the most powerful person on the league, this is one of the few times when Clark and J'onn are just out powered. They have zero chance here.

@Lady_Liberty said:

I'm afraid Clark and J'onn get completely destroyed here.

Absolutely destroyed.

Neither of them have any defense against the speed steal. Wally just touches them, and turns them both into statues.

I can see why someone would make this battle, it seems fair on the surface, but its a stomp.

Flash is hands down the most powerful person on the league, this is one of the few times when Clark and J'onn are just out powered. They have zero chance here.

NOOOO....

Superman and Martion would be too much trouble for flash.

@TERMINATOR1000: All Wally has to do is tap them with the tiny little touch of his pinky finger and they are frozen statues.

I believe he can manage that.