Flash Vs Superman

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SpectresWrath01

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@citizenbane: And What exactly is wrong with this DeathBattle? This DeathBattle used scans of feats. That way I did not have to search the web or this site to find them? I dont appreciate your insulting and rude behavior. You did this on purpose to insult. As Clark would say (Superman 2). "Excuse me sir, but would you like to take this outside?"

Side note: I have had emails about you from other users before. And so far this is the fifth insult, Ive seen your name displayed, to users on other forms. One day, your gonna cross the wrong person with that attitude. Karma is a B. Remember that!

@lven

This is about comic facts. Reading material and different ideas. If your telling me people dont have different opinions by readings then you my friend are neglecting nearly 2000 years of bible debates and translations. Everything I stated I backed up with what story arcs and why I view it that way. I clearly explained why I see things the way I see them and what makes me come to those conclusions. The first paragraph is me apologizing so you obviously didn't even read the first paragraph!

@dredeuced: I envy your Flash knowledge.

I would like someone to post a scan tell me tell me the arc. Tell me the story in that arc and what happened. What the whole story arc was about and then describe the feat and how it was obtained. Most stories have build ups like that. Posting incredible feats hold no merit.

If Wally is so powerful then their would be no Crisis in the first place-you guys cant say he can do this and then turn it around and blame the writers (for Flash having problems against characters like Grod). For every hero character in DC, they have some limitations! (This includes the Flash) Writers clearly explain how they get so powerful and why they are depowered later. Its not my fault people refuse to except this.

Right now can post a scan right now from Comic vine that shows Superman absorbing anti-sunlight from the Mag. Bomb. And as you know the Mag. Bomb is half the size of a galaxy; with that being said I could rap all that up into saying Superman can absorb half a galaxy worth of power anytime he wants. No thats ridiculous and out of context.

Also knowledge on one topic does not equal intelligence. If you guys want too we can all share our resumes and see who has biggest guns. That way we can definitely find out who is better than who. Sense you guys want to turn this into a pissing contest like a whole bunch of girls.

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pr0xyt0xin

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Um... despite this forum's unconditional love for The Flash, I say Supes has got this.

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juiceboks

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#1453 juiceboks  Moderator

I cant believe this 4 year old thread still has people trying to make a case for Superman winning in a fair fight.

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Pconcolor0

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Superman is stronger,pretty fast himself and has more superpowers.

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juiceboks

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#1455 juiceboks  Moderator

@pconcolor0 And Flash is way faster and can take away his speed. He may be stronger lifting wise but Flash can punch harder than him by moving faster than he can comprehend.

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Pconcolor0

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@pconcolor0 And Flash is way faster and can take away his speed. He may be stronger lifting wise but Flash can punch harder than him by moving faster than he can comprehend.

Your forgetting that superman has laser eyes, ice breath, he can fly, and blows really hard

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juiceboks

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#1457  Edited By juiceboks  Moderator

@pconcolor0 He can dodge his heat vision. Captain Cold has a cold field at absolute zero and still didn't freeze Barry, it only slowed him down but he still managed to beat him. Flash can fly too to an extent. He can achieve the same wind effect by rotating his arms at high speeds.

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Cha0tic

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Damn this thread is still alive, this is one of the first threads I made on my old account a long time ago. Unfortunately I had terrible grammar back then. :P

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Pconcolor0

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@juiceboks: He still slowed flash down with ice didn't he?

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juiceboks

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#1460 juiceboks  Moderator
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@pconcolor0 With a cold field colder than Supermans breath yes. But he was still able to move fast. Granted this is Barry not Wally but its still pretty impressive.

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Saren

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Cold never slowed Wally down with ice for the simple reason that the cold field doesn't have anything to do with temperature. It's a field that drains the kinetic energy of molecules that pass through it. The ice is just a side-effect and he calls himself Captain Cold for sentimental purposes.

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TifaLockhart

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Cold is downright scary.

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Saren

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@juiceboks: Different Cold, different powers, different Flash.

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juiceboks

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#1464 juiceboks  Moderator

@citizenbane New 52 Cold and Barry Allen because Wally hasn't made an appearance. Yes yes I know.

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Saren

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#1465  Edited By Saren

@citizenbane: And What exactly is wrong with this DeathBattle? This DeathBattle used scans of feats. That way I did not have to search the web or this site to find them? I dont appreciate your insulting and rude behavior.

The Death Battle didn't even use a standard version of Superman, they used some monstrous amalgamation of multiple versions from multiple continuities all with different limits and capabilities. No one takes that seriously, so if you want to back up your claims with feats, do yourself a favor and get some actual scans.

Additionally, most of that argument above is bloviated nonsense or simple untruth. The Speed Force didn't leave Bart because Wally returned. It left Bart because he was killed. Superman's heatvision is not going to destroy a planet any time soon. Post-Crisis Superman has never destroyed a planet. Superman flying straight up is not going to make any difference considering Wally can simply follow him. The example of Superboy-Prime crapping his pants and running away from Bart is hardly pertinent considering Bart is not Wally and has never displayed the ability to ignore gravity the way Wally has. You can claim Barry is almost as powerful as Wally, the fact remains that he is nowhere near Wally's level of capability. Amazo's power-steal is not weaker than the person he steals it from. It is identical. It was only the earliest versions of Amazo that duplicated power at 50% of the original holder's level. The Torquasm techniques are ridiculously unlikely to be a factor considering Clark has not used them in almost a decade, or over a decade depending on how reliable my memory is. Also, he cannot simply pull people onto the astral plane as and when he feels like it. Googling Superman's abilities is an inadvisable method of countering an argument. Zoom did not even want to beat Wonder Woman. The entire point of Zoom is that he wants heroes to go the extra mile and adopt harsher and more ruthless methods, hence why he threatens to kill their loved ones if they do not kill him before he does so. When Zoom actually wanted to win, he blitzed Superman and Wonder Woman simultaneously in the Sinestro Corps Special.

Considering Flash has phased through Superman's flesh before, the tactic will work just fine.

I am sorry you do not appreciate having your wrongness pointed out. The simplest solution is to not be wrong.

You did this on purpose to insult. As Clark would say (Superman 2). "Excuse me sir, but would you like to take this outside?"

Didn't end well for Clark if memory serves.

Side note: I have had emails about you from other users before. And so far this is the fifth insult, Ive seen your name displayed, to users on other forms. One day, your gonna cross the wrong person with that attitude. Karma is a B. Remember that!

Fascinating. Men may come and men may go, but I go on forever.

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Pconcolor0

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#1466  Edited By Pconcolor0
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@pconcolor0 With a cold field colder than Supermans breath yes. But he was still able to move fast. Granted this is Barry not Wally but its still pretty impressive.

You can't use barry when trying to defend wally

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Dredeuced

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#1467  Edited By Dredeuced

@spectreswrath01:

1st. Dont get upset bro. I am not trying to be insulting to you. I hope you dont take it personal because I don't. Also I understand debates can be frustrating, trying to get your point across or correct errors but still no reason to be upset. "IF you are upset....its hard to tell just be reading someones post; I have no idea on whether someone is being a di** or what not. (BUT I AM NOT) So I am flat out telling you I mean no offense by my posts. If you disagree that's fine by me.

2nd. I am not saying I am without memory error and I do make mistakes but I guess what I should have said is I feel strongly about this happening and I recall that it did happen! I am not saying, Im better than you or I know more than you about Wally or anything. My intent was not so much that you are wrong, as to I strongly believe I am correct! So apologize if that post by me offended you but my intentions were not negative to you. Nor were my intentions implying I know everything about the Flash or I read all the Flash comics. I dont think theirs anybody alive that has read every Flash comic lol. ( that would be kind of ridiculous dont you think?)

I'm not offended. Incredulous by your misplaced confidence? Sure, but I'm not mad nor offended. I will, however, call you out when I see you state something that can't be true.

Okay, now I know what you are talking about. Wally merged with the speed force and escaped was after the IC arc. And that scan I posted was prior to the event your talking about. So were talking about two different timelines here. Barry at that time was the only Flash to escape after merging with it, after being dead for a prolonged time. When Wally did it, it was intentional. Were talking about 2 different things here.

We shouldn't be talking about 2 different things because this debate is about Wally.

Ok. I do have a difference of opinion here. I recall Wally getting his powers back and Bart absorbing the Speed Force. The other flashes helped. Bart got the Flash suit. Bart new found power resulted in him not using his powers for a Year. One year ARC. And Wally coming back to earth and when that happened the Speed Force left Bart and was then Mainlined. Im am like 99 percent sure this happened like this. If not well then we have a difference of opinions here and one that wont be resolved. I am going to stick to my guns about this. Question, If Wally never lost his powers why didnt he bring his Family back to earth after IC? Why would Bart say I was the only one that can still run? Why were they talking about absorbing the Speed Force, why did Bart Involunteer to do it? And if he didnt do it, how did he age so fast? Barts powers were amped in IC no doubt their! Im saying he did absorb the Speed Force and your saying he didnt. My impression of reading these stories one after another implies that he did and Wally returning by a machine and not on his own also implies this to me. The fact that when Wally returned and the Speed Force was Mainlined implies powers returning to him, does it not?? So why didnt Wally return with his family on his own if he still had his speed? Alot of people lost their powers in the IC and thats what the whole One Year Arc was about? Or am I wrong? Granted I can see how some of this can seem like I am making assumptions but for me. Thats what feels like happened leading up to Inertia and Wallys return.

Because travelling through the speed force is dangerous? One mistake and he loses his whole family?

Bart said he's the only one who could run SPECIFICALLY because Wally couldn't leave his wife and kids. Wally was actually everyone's first choice to make the trip back because, let's be quite honest, he's vastly more powerful than every other Flash by their own admittance. Instead, since Bart has no family or kids to lose if he fails/dies, they send him with the gift of extra speed.

Wally was running at super speeds before the Machine took him. He had his super speed before it affected him -- Bart lost his speed when Wally came back because the machine was still designed to remove his connection to the speed force, it just moved the Speed into Wally instead of Inertia -- thus Inertia saying "it was you!" when Wally comes back to teach him a lesson.

In the scan you just posted! Wally absorbs kinetic energy! This is what his speed drain is all about correct? So if their is no kinetic energy how can wally drain it? This is the problem I am having. I think you are trying to say he can do it with no kinetic around??? I am unsure about this now. But from what I understand he drains kinetic energy to give him a speed boost and Wallys opponents lose that kinetic energy, which is a product/generated by movement. If you believe this to be wrong let me know. My problem is your saying Wally can absorb something that isnt there?

Wally can remove someone's ability to create their own movement. If they had to be moving then Wally couldn't speed steal Inertia into a statue. He can do the same thing to Superman -- speed steal him until he can no longer move on his own. It has nothing to do with someone moving.

And even if it DID, technically everyone is moving relative to something. Physics 101 and such. You're creating a limitation that is counter intuitive to what's been shown and has never been stated.

Well I do have a problem with this....first off Im not playing semantics-(arising from two different meanings?). Im stating Wally needs to be in high speed to do this and your saying he doesnt. Your saying Wally can react in Picoseconds and move infinitely fast without prep time. I say thats wrong.

Then you're incorrect.

Infact, Barry who I believe is close in power to Wally flat out states this in Flashpoint that he needs Prep time while talking to Batman. He then goes on to say Superman is the most powerful being int he Universe.

Barry is massively less powerful than Wally. They made that pretty clear in Flash: Rebirth that Barry still needed to learn to use his speed to the extent that Wally knows how. Barry doesn't have even the slightest bit of feats that compare to Wally. It's quite silly to compare the two.

Second show a scan with Flash in no motion, not thinking in picoseconds, not already moving in picoseconds but from zero to picosecond reaction time to doing a feat much faster than FLT in a picosecond. I strongly disagree with this. Make sure the scan is extremely clear about this and Ill yield the topic.

I believe Flash can react in picoseconds, think in picoseconds. And while in speed can react at extremely fast speeds in picoseconds but not zero to thousands of times light speed in a picosecond. While he is already sped up I think he can achieve almost any feat in speed.

So just show me a scan where he is doing nothing and reacts in a picosecond and does thousands of times light speed also in a picosecond. lol I think your going to have trouble finding it. He must not already be in speed for me to agree with this. And no vague or anything that can be mistranslated. Also I need the comic number and Arc. Because some scans and stories give prep time before the moment of the scan.

I already did, though. You just refuse to believe that him standing still against Mirror Master counts because, what? You just don't like to be proven wrong or something? I've also shown him reacting to something at nanoseconds while standing still. Here's him thinking at zeptosecond speeds while sitting down in a chair:

For reference, a billion plans in a nanosecond is zeptosecond intervals.

The fact that Wally has to start moving at FTL speeds to before he can use his insane reaction time and thinking speeds is bunk. It's never been true and there's no reason to think it's true besides the fact that you'd want it to be to weaken him.

If he can think at these absurds speeds without moving then he can start moving before superman can react. That's the point.

I think your reading to much into my post. Granted my post here is flawed but I am not trying to say what your accusing me of! My Intent was that, I am very confident and sure of myself. That was the intent and nothing more but I can see, how I wrote it, makes you feel that way. I was not trying to say my memory on the topic is better than yours. As far as claiming myself to be absolutely correct. Your correct, I should word it better or watch how I type things. Its meaning in my mind when I typed it was for a boost in my assurance. Also to make you think about it and see where Im coming from and how I came to my conclusions instead of ranting on about how wrong this or that is!!!!

That's all well and good, you just shouldn't be indignant about it. I wasn't making stuff up when I said you believed yourself to be beyond reproach.

Another thing. Posting scans does not imply knowledge of the topic. You search the web or have a comic database to research for certain scans. I prefer my comics the old fashion way! The comic book! The one ment for reading. I dont see how providing scans makes a big difference? (one doesn't gain knowledge by posting scans???). It really has no merit at all. Flooding a page with scans just tells me you have resources on the internet.

I take great issue with this. I referenced my information and provided issue numbers BEFORE I went looking for the scans. You then told me to provide scans and I did. I can give you the issue number for almost every single one of the scans I posted (There's a couple of JL ones that, while I have read them, I don't know the issue number off the top of my head like I do The Flash volumes).

The thing is, you're constantly demanding scans of my stuff and provide none of your own to back your claims. There's an enormous double standard here.

Personally, I rather not spend time searching the web for scans. Two, id rather not pull out my comics, scan them, and go through all that work to prove something. Its a waste of time and time consuming. Listing Issues. Well I have clearly stated the events I am talking about; so I dont see why you are questioning that. The fact you were talking about Black Flash while I was talking about IC tells me we are both in error. (misunderstandings on both sides) If you really want I can go through my comics spend a shit load of time and give you comic issue #'s and what event they happened? Lol? Its not a big big deal but its time consuming. I've already stated the arcs I recall them happening. Personally, I dont think Wallys merging is the same as Barrys. Wally did it but it did it to save Linda.

Yeah, yet you expect me to do it. You expect me to get scans. You expect me to reference issue numbers to back my point. Yet, somehow, you're more right than I am despite all the proof.

I mean, the main difference is I don't have to go through a bunch of comics because I tend to remember when they happened. I can usually narrow it down to a 5 issue arc and find the specific one in a couple of minutes upon being asked.

Barry's merging after Final Crisis was basically a retcon of the Speed Force, so it's definitely not the same as Wally's. The point was you were trying to use Bart's statement as some kind of indictment against Wally, which is kind of pointless to make.

Moreso- you insult me by saying I have vague memories? How else are you suppose to recall what happens in past events. Something tells me you have more research tips than I do....which is cheating IMO. I dunno I go by my own readings and understands of things, I really don't see how else your suppose to do it?? Telling me this, makes me think you read less than I do? If your not basing your knowledge by memory, then what are you basing it off of???? I would not use other peoples facts or info because you have no idea where they got their info and maybe they misunderstood it. I rely on myself and myself only. That way if I do make a mistake. I learn from it! Im not saying your doing this but Im curious to why someone would question ones memory on a topic? It implies you are not relying on just reading??? Personally, I think thats bad because I see major screw ups online. Espeically, when their talking about my two favorites. Spectre/Superman.

I didn't insult you by saying you have vague memories. It's not an insult to tell someone they don't have photographic memory of every comic they've read. It's just poor debating form when you bring up things that happened in comics that happened a little differently from how you remember and treat them as fact.

I am basing my knowledge on memory, but mine is clearly fresher or better than yours because, well, I remember the issue numbers and the phrasing the characters used. You remember events and the general idea of what happened, but not the specifics behind it. That's why I had to provided that scan of The Fastest Man Alive #6 to give you the context and exact words from the comic.

Relying on yourself and yourself only is bad because people are prone to mistakes. I go back to the source to check it and make sure what I'm saying is applicable. That's probably why I'm having to correct a lot of your statements on what happened with stuff like Inertia's speed force machine or Wally's abilities.

Another thing. Misunderstandings are world wide. You are correct when you said I shouldnt say "Im absolutely correct" because nobody is without error. Even though my intent was not negative, I am not without flaws. Take the Bible for example: Do you have any Idea how many people fight over different understanding of how that is written! I think I made my point! lol Its completely possible me and you both read the same crap and came to two different conclusions. Which is what I am pretty sure happened. You do seem to be quite knowledgeable on the topic but you clearly disguard Barts comment and the One Year Arc. If Bart got no boost in power and all he did was put on a suit why did he refuse to use his powers? And why did Wally wait for a l machine to bring him back? If you ask me that doesnt make sense if he still had all his powers intact.

I did say that Bart received a boost in power from the Speedsters of the alternate earth. The point I was making, several times now, is that Wally does not lose all his powers when he lends speed. He is shown having his powers later on before Inertia's Speed Force machine or whatever interacts with him. It's honestly all quite irrelevant to this fight because your original statement was that Wally needed to absorb the entire Speed Force to beat Superman, but that it would kill him in the process. None of which is true because Wally didn't state it (as you said), it wasn't to kill Superman (it was to warn people about Prime returning) and it didn't happen the way you said it did. I was just correcting your mistake on what happened in continuity rather than anything else.

You say I am ignoring Wallys other powers. Well I think your ignoring alot of Supermans powers. I am a Superman fan and I read more Superman and Spectre comics than the average person. I actually own some of the rarest Supermans and Spectre comics. I even own Spectres, first Appearance in more Fun Comics! Its beat up to hell but I have one! And the 1st appearance of Brainiac. Its valued at $3000.

When it comes to the Spectre I own his entire collection (Spectres own series I mean). From the 1st series which was 10 issues. To the Wrath of Spectre which is a 4 part mini series and also 10 issue series in Adverture comics. They both tell the same story. The 2nd Series which is 31 issues. The 3rd series the longest running one at 62 issues. And the 4th series staring Hal Jordan as the Spectre in 27 issues. Excuse the numbers if the are off by 1. Id have to pull them out going by memory here but I think the number is correct.

When it comes to Superman, well I have too many to list but everything from COIE and on, I own. I also have a Justice League 1 sketch signed by Geoff Johns value 250, and Action comics 1 sketch signed by Morales. Valued at 250. Its rating is a 9.8 and signed so I wouldnt let it go for anything under 1000. If you have doubts check my facebook page. My cover page is me shaking hands with Morales.

https://www.facebook.com/john.newman.92372446 This is my Facebook if you have doubts, the picture is right there!

Aren't you special. This isn't really relevant, though. Your Superman knowledge has thusfar been resorting to listing basic abilities everyone in the world is aware of and then linking an inconsistent, shoddy youtube video to back him with "feats." My statement of my own knowledge of the Flash has been backed by issue numbers, scans, and a generally more accurate recollection of the events you brought up.

Sorry about the rant but I felt it was important to show my loyality to reading the comics (sense you questioned me by not providing scans???). If this doesnt sway you I will take a picture of every comic in my house which goes up to thousand+.

The thing is, it's pretty easy to find scans if you know what issue number they were. Google's a simple tool. That's how I find practically all of my Flash scans -- I know what I'm looking for and being specific makes it easy to track.

While I do think this fight is extremely close. Wally isnt the only one with ridiculous feats. One, Wally phasing his hand through Supermans head will have no effect. Everything about Superman is invulnerable, (even his brain)!

It's not a matter of durability. It's a matter of the fact that Wally can phase through Superman and Superman's brain would literally be incapable of being attached to his body if Wally phased it apart from him. Wally isn't attacking his durability.

Two, the only attack Wally has to KO Superman is The Infinite Mass Punch!

Incorrect. Wally could atomize him with phasing, remove vital organs, use his speed steal and speed lending powers to cause Superman massive seizures and organ failure, speed steal him to a statue to win via incapacitation, or, as you say, Infinite Mass Punch him.

Three, While Wallys Speed Steal gives him a early start advantage....he never uses it at the start of fights anyway....... but while it gives him a advantage Wallys attacks are useless unless he is doing Light speed attacks!

Incorrect, wally has opened several fights with speed steal.

And, again, Wally has plenty of "attacks" that would work just fine without hitting Superman at Lightspeed.

Four, While Wally is much, much faster than Superman. No question there! (Hell, Wally can move and Superman wont even notice him.) But for Wally to do enough damage he needs to Slow down! Faster than Light attacks will be less damage than the Infinite Mass Punch! Five, the amount of Damage Wally needs to do just to take Superman out is extreme! I do not believe Wally can prevent Supermans heat vision if he gets to close and I cant see Wally not getting close to Stop Superman from flying straight up! If Superman can ever at any point in time fly straight up the FIGHT IS OVER!!!!!!

Wally is casually faster than heat vision:

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He's also phased Superman's heatvision before and even turned it into a different weapon by turning himself into a prism:

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Superman's heat vision is irrelevant considering Wally is so well versed in phasing with it.

The samething happened when Bart attacked Superboy Prime. Prime just flew away before Bart could do enough damage! (IC Arc Issue number 7) Im not saying Wally doesnt have the ability to KO him but I think he would need to put out 100% to stop Superman before Superman has anytime to react and I dont think Wally can do that.

Bart, for all his potential power, does not have the same feats Wally does. Bringing him up is irrelevant. As is bringing up Superboy Prime.

This is wrong Supermans Brain is Invulnerable and protected by a skin tight forcefield. Phasing through his head would have no effect. (Amazo has no such protection unless he absorbs powers. Also Amazos power steal is weaker than the person he steals them from.)

You seriously think Wally can't phase through Superman because of a ...skin tight forcefield?

No Caption Provided

Superman's durability has nothing to do with Wally's phasing. It works just fine against him, skintight forcefield or no. And this was Wally directly after the Spectre memory wiped them who was still relearning his powers, for what it's worth. Vibrational attacks should work just fine against Superman.

While Wally attempts this Superman can lobotmize him in that instant. Once Wally is in Supermans seeing range! At any moment Superman can use his Instant lobotomy on him! Wally would lose all Brain Functions and be down. And the sweet part about it is; all Wally has to do is move in Supermans seeing range for it to happen. Its mircoscopic so Wally wont even know its happening (therefore wont dodge it). And we all know Superman has Super Vision. Superman can hear Wally on the other side of the planet and see through anything! Wally doesnt have much room here except to be constantly running or moving faster than Superman perceive him. Its his only chance! Supermans sight is so impressive he can actually see Wallys Soul!

Superman couldn't react to this at all. Wally's attack would work. Superman's heat vision is both too slow to tag Wally and doesn't even hurt him when he's phasing -- like he would be to be phasing Superman's brain out of his head. So, that point's dead for a number of reasons.

You...... Obviously dont know Superman that well to be saying this. If you dont believe me read Flashpoint issue 3. Barry Allen clearly states this while talking to Batman. He needs prep time if his powers are at full! This is the reason why one minute Speedsters own everything and the next they have trouble with Captain Cold, Mirror Master, Grod, Weather Wizard, ect.

Barry. Allen. Is. Not. Wally. West. Say it with me now. Barry Allen is not Wally West. Wally has feats Barry has never come close to recreating.

Wally doesn't HAVE trouble with his rogues, typically. That's the thing. I showed you specifically him taking out Mirror Master like a chump. He's done the same to all his villains besides the reverse Flashes and Kadabra (Who are...quite powerful).

Is Superman a crappy, weak hero from struggling with Toy Man? Or the Ultra Humanite? You can't use someone's rogue gallery against them and ignore their feats.

A Bloodlusted Superman is more likely to destroy planets and kill everything in sight. Yes, Superman can destroy a planet with heat vision. If you think Supermans Heat vision doesnt get hotter than the sun well your wrong their. It does! And he can widen his range and it does not decrease its power! It all depeneds on Superman. The more powerful the Heat Vision the faster it drains his power. This video states everything Ive been saying about Superman and provides scans and research in it. This way I dont have too. The scans are in the video.

A decent video made by death battle: Skip to 8:49 for Supermans feats. These are just some I listed. And the video editors made one mistaken it is true while in space zero gravity affects the weight of objects like Planets and their math is correct. However they forgot planets have their own gravity. Reguardless of being in space and weightless planets would retain its massive weight. For Superman to move the earth he needs to be in earths atmosphere or connected to it so the weight remains the same! ALot of this I agree with. Just a few things I disagree with.

Such as- Torquasm vo- Mental barrier protects Superman from mental attacks on a deep level. Powerful enough to even impressive the Martian Manhunter. He can also use this to make illusions and enter inside of people.

Torquasm Rao- Allows Superman to enter and fight on the astral plane. This is outside of time itself and in this state he can keep up with Flash. Its his most powerful feat. In this form Wally would have to destroy his soul which Wally cannot do. This move does require some prep time but if Wally leaves him motion less then a BL and Morals of Superman would jump right into it.

Heat Vision- Fact you might not know. Supermans heat vision does not have to be visible. Superman can make his heat vision invisible to the human eye and with exact precision, mircoscopic, and x-ray vision Superman can use his instant lobotomy on almost any opponent. Superman must understand how the brain functions to do this so alien brains can be foreign to him and it might not work. Human like brains stand no chance. Superman can do this without even leaving a burn mark on opponents.

Invulnerability- This is a process that happens inside Supermans body. As Supermans cells absorb sunlight it grants him nigh-invulnerability to everything about him. Its a aura that is mostly seen to protect the outside of his body. However, Superman can control this aura at will, likewise this aura is protecting everything side Superman. Anything that is powered by solar radiation is protected. Superboy attempted this in Our Worlds at War when he entered Supermans body breifly and punched one of Supermans cells. It resulted in Superboy hurting his hand to the point he thought it was broke.

Absorption- Supermans body absorbs energy at will. Most of the time this is Yellow sunlight however, most energy in the cosmos is provided by Solar energy. Superman has shown to absorb heat from rocks, energy from leaf, electricity and other forms of energy. However this depends on two factors. 1. The source of the energy must have some connection to solar energy. 2. Superman's own mind. Supermans powers differ at one point he built a suit that allowed him to access some of his other powers and absorb different forms of energy altogether. The suit amped Supermans own ability to do this. But because Superman at a young age put limits on his abilities. Superman sense then has been trying to unlock his full potential. Superman can also unlock these powers by absorbing more sunlight. Superman doesnt do this in fear he wont be able to control it and he will harm someone but can do it. Supermans absorption powers are so powerful that he has fully restored his entire body in a instant after having his body completely destoryed and being nothing but bones left. Apparently even Supermans bone cells absorb energy. Also Supermans cells stay active he can absorb energy at will if he focuses but he doesnt need 2. His cells absorb energy without Superman needing to doing anything at all.

Superman's heat vision has never destroyed a planet. That Death Battle video is asinine. As such a huge Superman fan as yourself, you should realize they combined the feats of dozens of different alternate universe Supemen (such as All Star) that don't apply to normal Superman, and the video itself is done merely for entertainment purposes. It's embarrassing that anyone try to use such a shoddily and poorly constructed video as a source for Superman. The makers didn't even know anything about him and took the word of some random guy who owns a backwater Superman worship site as gospel.

And even still, most of the things you've mentioned are irrelevant vs Wally. Wally isn't going to use Telepathy or fight Superman on the astral plane. I've already covered heat vision, and I've already covered how Superman's invulnerability has never stopped Wally from phasing through him.

PS: What's that about you saying you rely on yourself and only yourself, yet now you're going to inaccurate youtube videos about what Superman can do?

Quick fight I think not. Phasing out Supermans brain will not work unless the amount of force is stronger than Supermans invulnerability.

Incorrect, Wally has phased through Superman before. Invulnerability has nothing to do with affect Wally's phasing powers.

And it also doesn't help that Wally can shut off Superman's brain from working with Speed Steal. Lul.

Also Id like to add Zoom has faced Wonder Woman while Wonder Woman was Blind and still lost! Zoom in general causes Flash alot of trouble and has even succeeded against them.

And it made absolutely no sense. She couldn't even react to how badly he was beating her and he somehow got caught by a lasso that he also somehow couldn't phase through (which he has shown he can do before). It's one of the most PIS uppercuts you've ever seen, but there you go.

Zoom also beat Superman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern pretty effortlessly, taunted them, then left in another appearance. Inconsistency is a known beast in comics.

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#1468  Edited By Dredeuced
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#1469 juiceboks  Moderator

@pconcolor0 I was just giving an example of how generally any Flash would deal with something attempting to slow them down in that sort of manner. That may be Barry but Wally is more adept at utilizing his abilities so cold breath wouldn't do much to him.

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SpectresWrath01

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@pconcolor0 And Flash is way faster and can take away his speed. He may be stronger lifting wise but Flash can punch harder than him by moving faster than he can comprehend.

Actually they punch the same. The strongest hit they both have is called the Infinite Mass Punch. Its destructive power is 10 octillion megatons of power. This happens at shy of light speed because it builds up infinite mass and creates a forceful impact. Its impact has been quoted as being the same as a Dwarf Star. Basically, it hits with the force of a Supernova. Both Wally, and Superman have done this.

No Caption Provided

Superman vibrating his body under light speed. Its not the flight speed doing the impact. This is the Infinite Mass Punch. Wally and Supermans strongest hits. They are equal.

@spectreswrath01 said:

@citizenbane: And What exactly is wrong with this DeathBattle? This DeathBattle used scans of feats. That way I did not have to search the web or this site to find them? I dont appreciate your insulting and rude behavior.

The Death Battle didn't even use a standard version of Superman, they used some monstrous amalgamation of multiple versions from multiple continuities all with different limits and capabilities. No one takes that seriously, so if you want to back up your claims with feats, do yourself a favor and get some actual scans.

Additionally, most of that argument above is bloviated nonsense or simple untruth. The Speed Force didn't leave Bart because Wally returned. It left Bart because he was killed. Superman's heatvision is not going to destroy a planet any time soon. Post-Crisis Superman has never destroyed a planet. Superman flying straight up is not going to make any difference considering Wally can simply follow him. The example of Superboy-Prime crapping his pants and running away from Bart is hardly pertinent considering Bart is not Wally and has never displayed the ability to ignore gravity the way Wally has. You can claim Barry is almost as powerful as Wally, the fact remains that he is nowhere near Wally's level of capability. Amazo's power-steal is not weaker than the person he steals it from. It is identical. It was only the earliest versions of Amazo that duplicated power at 50% of the original holder's level. The Torquasm techniques are ridiculously unlikely to be a factor considering Clark has not used them in almost a decade, or over a decade depending on how reliable my memory is. Also, he cannot simply pull people onto the astral plane as and when he feels like it. Googling Superman's abilities is an inadvisable method of countering an argument. Zoom did not even want to beat Wonder Woman. The entire point of Zoom is that he wants heroes to go the extra mile and adopt harsher and more ruthless methods, hence why he threatens to kill their loved ones if they do not kill him before he does so. When Zoom actually wanted to win, he blitzed Superman and Wonder Woman simultaneously in the Sinestro Corps Special.

1. Amazo is still a machine and they are new powers to him. Amazo has clear glitches or limitations this is do to a flaw in his design. (this is not the JLU Amazo) He needs to get use to the powers to use them properly. He doesnt evolve instant like the other amazo. This is the main reason why Amazo has been defeated over and over again. Because Flash, Superman, ect know their powers better than Amazo. Its not the same or Identical .

2.Superman uses Torquasm when he does Martial arts check again. Its a mental state Clark goes into instead of just brawling. Superman talks about this alot. What you said is false. He however doesn't always say that he is doing Torquasm but it is explained in the comics what this is.

3. I do not google Characters. I know tons about Superman I own every Supes comic 1986 and on to current date. Ive read them all atleast once and I can list comics arcs, Where one comic story starts to where the next Superman comic comes in line. Why you see a skip form Superman comics 0-226 at the end of infinite crisis to the next issue at #650 Up up and away arc. All the way to Flash point. Last Superman issue 904. I can go on more definitely and in more detail about plots, arcs, issues, next comics in line, what to read next in Superman vs Adventures vs Action ....Man of Steel and continue ons.

4.The speed force went mainline is what I said. This happened when Wally returned by Inertias Machine. Since, Wally was thrown into another dimension by the Speed Force while fighting Superboy Prime. This was mostly Barrys fault. Later explained.

(5) IMPORTANT- Bart clearly aged in the IC arc after dawning the Flash suit and received a upgrade in power and he did this in order to warn everybody and be fast enough to defeat Prime. However the trip back knocked him out for a short time; until he awoke to find Superboy dead at the hands of Prime. Bart tried to Stop Prime but he flew away.

-Bart clearly lost some of the Speed Force when Wally returned. I never stated he lost ALL his powers. He is a meta-human after all. Barts age clearly changes him back into a kid when Wally returned. And sense the speed force changes Barts Age I am inclined to think this.

(6) IMPORTANT- At the end of the IC Story. Issue number 7. Jay and Bart have a quick conversation and Jay quotes....the Speed Force was destroyed. However this is a lie Bart is telling him. Bart doesnt tell him the Speed Force is within him. This is another reason why I came to my conclusions about Bart absorbing the Speed Force. If it wasnt within Bart then why couldnt Jay still feel it? Why did Inertia resort to using a drug for Speed? Why didnt Wally return home with his family if he still had all his powers and full connection to the speed force?

And yes Supermans heat vision can destroy a planet full of life. Superman can bust planets. He has been seen breaking meteors have the size of earth.

No Caption Provided

Considering Flash has phased through Superman's flesh before, the tactic will work just fine.

Phasing has worked on Superman but killing Superman with Phasing has NEVER HAPPENED! We are talking about one of the only heroes that can Survive a direct blast from the Omega Beams.... Darkseids Omega beams at not just strong heat vision. Darkseid can achieve nearly any feat from wiping a being out of existence to altering or manipulating anything he wants. So if this works then why would Darkseids Omega beams fail? If a simple phasing can do the trick Darkseid would have replicated the effect. I do not think this tactic works. Also Flash isnt the only hero with Phasing.

I am sorry you do not appreciate having your wrongness pointed out. The simplest solution is to not be wrong.

Nothing wrong with using a video for its scans provided. I stated skip to 8:29 to see a quick bio on Supermans stats and feats and scans are provided there. My intentions have nothing to do with coming Goku to Flash. Thats ridiculous. Maybe if you did read my argument you might have known this. If its such a big deal I will post the scans to what I am referring to about Superman Below. I really dont see the difference in provide videos of scans compared to actually posting scans. Thats ridiculous and nonsense.

You did this on purpose to insult. As Clark would say (Superman 2). "Excuse me sir, but would you like to take this outside?"

Didn't end well for Clark if memory serves.

Check again at the end of the movie????? I recall the guy cheap shots a depowered and weak Clark 3 times and but If memory serves me correctly it did end well. Clark does come back and puts him in his place right? But according to some ppl my memory is lacking so lol?? I think I'm right here though. Im pretty sure Im right. You did say the simplest solution was not to be wrong right?

Side note: I have had emails about you from other users before. And so far this is the fifth insult, Ive seen your name displayed, to users on other forms. One day, your gonna cross the wrong person with that attitude. Karma is a B. Remember that!

Fascinating. Men may come and men may go, but I go on forever.

I don't even know what to make of this?????? Weird, Strange, and Huh?

No Caption Provided

Supermans vision is so power he can see a beings soul.

No Caption Provided

This goes beyond any feat. Black holes are not physical. Superman is holding it with his aura. This is a test of his auras durability and a impressive one at that. Phasing abilities to biapass Supermans aura have nothing on this feat. Phasing out Supermans Brain would not work. The gravity of a Blackhole is so intense their is no measure for it. Anything that comes in contact with a Blackhole would instantly be thinned out to a mini version of itself but its mass would remain. However, this comic scan is really bad science. How the hell is Batman not instantly killed by the 1 second of gravity it would generate???

No Caption Provided

Strength of Supermans Aura is impressive. To match the size of a growing solar system and throw the entire thing out into speed goes into unknown amounts of weight. Also bad science. Even a newly formed growing start would instantly kill all life on earth (if it was that close).

@pconcolor0: Wally and Barrys powers are so evenly matched I'd say it is fine to say whatever Barry can do Wally can do and probably better. Wally does help Barry break through the Time Barrier in Rebirth. Wally states he has done this before without the use of the cosmic tredmill. (Wally is encouraging Barry)

@dredeuced: Im sorry I wont be replying to your comments. I truely respect your knowledge on such topics and appreciate your attitude thoughout this whole debate. You have more than earned your stats to me. I however and not totally sold or think the same way as you but I think you are find by that also. Add me because I will add you. I will be leaving for quite some time and not capable of replying for some time! I hope you enjoyed the debate I sure did. I mostly enjoyed debating with a respectful and intelligent person such as yourself. Ill remember your name so when I get back Ill look you up. Take care my friend. God Speed.

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Flash vs Batman

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Speed steal + IMP spamming = win

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somebody says Flash only went the speed of light when he has went 13 trillion times the speed of light...

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Supermanwithatan01

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Wally >>> Barry >> Kal in terms of speed. Powerwise, it's not even a fight.., Wally wins and this thread is dead. Nothing left to say about either.

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dum529001

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#1478  Edited By dum529001

@viator_omnipotens:

The theory of relativity doesn't say that an object traveling at light-speed has infinite mass/resistance force.

Striking at light-speed ruptures certain atoms at their core, creating what's known as an atomic explosion. The destruction of an atom is the greatest kind of force there is. Its all about nuclear power.

How much nuclear power does Flash have? Flash can strike with force of a white dwarf star.

The Flash's "infinite mass punch" only strikes with the force of a white dwarf star. therefore, the force of the "infinite mass punch" is not truly infinite.

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Thedarklordpandamonium

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@dum529001: No, the theory of relativity does not. The equation for momentum does - force = (mass) (velocity squared). In this case Flash will speed up and hit Supes in the face with force equivalent to the Flash's fist's mass times the speed of light squared AT LEAST.

That's at least 8.98755179 × 1016 newtons. You calculate the force of a punch by multiplying the velocity of the object you hit (thus the momentum you're going minus it's momentum, so in this case 8.98755179 × 1016-0 so 8.98755179 × 1016) times the weight of the object (so in supes case like 300) to yield the total Newtons you're hitting with.

The end result of an IMP is 2.6962655e+19 Newtons. Significantly more than a supernova's effect on the Man of Steel (a supernova's force is spread out and is still only 10^22 after radiation is accounted for; divide the sphere by the man of steel's proximity and after being outside of the star before it collapsed the IMP hits for more).

And Flash can throw at least ten of those before Supes reacts.

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@dum529001: SO E=MC², I'm not arguing I just don't understand and am stating what I do understand. To surpass the speed of light you need an infinite amount of energy. The energy must be infinite and the speed of light is a set figure, 299 792 458 m/s ². So surely then E=MC2 means M must also be infinite because any formula equal to infinite and a value (c) as a set figure must mean the other value (m) must infinite to create...infinite. Not only infinite mass but the infinite amount of energy would be transferred to Superman even if it's just heat, a division of infinite still means infinite so infinite heat energy being transferred well...yeah. That's just one energy example.

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I think superman blew up a entire solar system by sneezing -.-

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I think superman blew up a entire solar system by sneezing -.-

That was Pre-Crisis Superman

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#1484  Edited By flash_destroys

Flash is so fast he could vibrate through the punch and he could just use physics mass times velocity equal force so mass times the speed of light. If flash punched superman it would break through supermans skull or he could vibrate into superman and kill him from inside out

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Before we jump in, let me just point out that yes, I am a Flash fanboy (although I do have to admit, he is ridiculously overpowered, particularly Wally), and no, that does not affect the legitimacy of this post in the slightest. The facts are all objective, and as far as I know, this is canon. If it isn't, I'll have made myself look like a complete idiot by the end of this, but you win some you lose some. Oh, and this is my first ever post! Hi!

I've just read every single post in this thread, well, spread out over the past the past two days. It was really interesting to hear both sides of the argument (despite the amount of Superman fans just claiming that Big Blue wins purely because he has that big 'S' on his chest), and I now have a lot of respect for people, like Zoom and SlimJ87D.

But it astounds me there's only been a couple of mentions of Chongjin.

The fastest I've seen Superman's speed claimed at is 123 million times the Speed of Light, so I'm just going to say that is his fastest, even though I'm fairly sure it's a lot slower.

Here's a scan of the Chongjin rescue, JLA #89, the conclusion to the Trial by Fire arc:

No Caption Provided

Now, before anyone jumps in with the 'It says it's not FTL!', I know. But, but they've provided us with the time, the means to work out the distance, and in turn, the means to work out the speed. So rather than ignoring the facts and just going with what we're told, let's work this out!

Flash ran 70 miles (round trip) at least 266,000 times - that being if he carried two people every time. That's 18,620,000 miles.

He ran this in one hundred-thousandth of a microsecond. Multiply that by 100,000 to get the distance he can travel in a microsecond, then 1 million for the distance he can travel in a second. (There are 1 million microseconds in a second.) Then by 60 and 60 again to get the distance he can travel in an hour. I got 6.7 septillion miles per hour.

To put that in perspective, the speed of light is about 670 thousand mph, meaning he was moving at approximately 10 trillion times the speed of light. At this speed, it would take him an entiresecond to run around the world 4.6 septillion times. Yeah, that fast.

And that's just if we assume he always carried two people at once, which the comic specifically states he didn't, so in reality, the figure could be almost doubled. Now my calculations could be wrong, but I know this is vaguely accurate.

Ok, so we've established that Wally can run at about 10 trillion times the speed of light, compared to Superman's 123 million. This means that the Flash can move about 81,000 times faster than Supes. That's roughly the same proportional difference as a fighter jet to the Speed of Light. In short, Superman wouldn't even stand a chance.

Now, it could be argued that Superman can speed his perceptions up to the same speed as The Flash's (which I'm fairly sure he can do, I don't have any scans, but who cares, I'm arguing against him anyway.) But that's the beauty of this. While Superman can use those oh so amazing eyes of his to see what Flash it doing, he will feel frozen, as if Wally has stolen all his speed and made him a statue.(Which remember, he hasn't!) He will be able to watch as Wally beats the hell out of him, but won't even be able to blink, let alone do something about it.

At this speed, Superman wouldn't even have time to think about even starting to fight back before he is unconscious, or, if we're going with bloodlusted, no longer a physical entitity, as the force from the blows would literally tear his body to pieces, if Wally goes all out of course. He can't cause an earthquake, he's lost before he finishes the thought. He can't fly away, because he's lost before he can finish the thought. He can't use his heat vision, because Wally has beaten him into a pulp before his eyes even remember that they can go pew pew. And always remember, this is low-balling Wally's top speed, and high-balling Superman's. So anyone who's arguing that speed steal or phasing wouldn't work - which they would - you can put your minds at ease knowing it doesn't even matter.

So, much to the dismay of Superman fans everywhere, and has been proven countless times over the past few years in this thread already, Superman would have lost, literally before he even realised he was losing. Poor guy.

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Light

said:

Flashes only way of beating superman wouldn't work if supes attacked from the sky. Ice Breath would destroy Wally's balance ... [more]

Let's turn it the other way around. How is Supes gonna take to the sky if Flash steals his speed first?

First of all, Hi!!

Then to this: How is Supes gonna take the sky if Flash Steals his speed? Well, speed steal is a kind of badass, of course, but as far as I know (and I must say i'm no expert) Superman´s hability to fly is a wonder of strengh, not speed so unless Flash completly frozes Superman he still will be able to fly. Maybe I'm wrong.

Regarding the battle: I've always been quite a fan of the Flash and I think there's no doubt speed steal and IMP would be a winning movement. Even though, Superman is too much to think of this as a sure win for the Flash. We cannot forget about Superman intelligence and hability to analyze: if there's a way for him to win he will find out. So if we make this a single battle, probably the Flash will win, but if we go for, lets say, best out of ten, probably Wally will get the first 3 or 4 rounds, but by then Superman would probably have found the way to beat him, so in the long run it will be a Superman victory.

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coon00

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Ok, now I finally read the whole thing here. Wally wins this hands down, period.

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hardcorefakes

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@coon00 said:

Ok, now I finally read the whole thing here. Wally wins this hands down, period.

Who's duplicate account is this for?

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#1489  Edited By coon00

@hardcorefakes said:

@coon00 said:

Ok, now I finally read the whole thing here. Wally wins this hands down, period.

Who's duplicate account is this for?

No one, I'm just new here. Found this googling "Flash vs Superman"

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Moonman78

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#1490  Edited By Moonman78

@thrashmoney:

That never happened that theory has been disproven, I can't believe this thread has gone on for 30 pages, flash has never displayed the power to beat superman.

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hardcorefakes

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@coon00 said:

@hardcorefakes said:

@coon00 said:

Ok, now I finally read the whole thing here. Wally wins this hands down, period.

Who's duplicate account is this for?

No one, I'm just new here. Found this googling "Flash vs Superman"

-________-

I'll take your word for it.

As long as you don't post irrelevant scans that show nothing about how Wally can beat Superman.

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#1492  Edited By jodema

I can't believe this is still going on.

Flash wins.

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Do flash fan boys calm themselves anything? I figured Bieber fan girls call themselves Beliebers and twilight fans have team Edward, so what do flash fan boys call themselves? I was think WallyWorlders...Walliers...Flashturbaters....

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Dratini1331

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Do flash fan boys calm themselves anything? I figured Bieber fan girls call themselves Beliebers and twilight fans have team Edward, so what do flash fan boys call themselves? I was think WallyWorlders...Walliers...Flashturbaters....

lol, I like that one =P

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Do flash fan boys calm themselves anything? I figured Bieber fan girls call themselves Beliebers and twilight fans have team Edward, so what do flash fan boys call themselves? I was think WallyWorlders...Walliers...Flashturbaters....

WallyWankers....I kid...I kid!

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Moonman78

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Smdh please lock this thread to avoid further embarisment.

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#1499  Edited By ComicStooge
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#1500  Edited By Minaruto

Supes takes this handily.