@ghostrider2: I always will argue that full power surfer beats wally and only scenarios like this does wally win... An in character surfer is an easier opponent for wally also..
"Flash fights at the picosecond level, his entire fight with Zoom lasted a picosecond, this is the smallest possible measurement of time"
No it isn't the smallest measurement of time is a Planck epoch.
Yea true, I was confused cuz so long I've read the time measurements and stuff since high school, I remember the smallest was planck time and the smallest distance measurable is planck length etc.
@newecho: speedsteal is the dumbest thing ever created and it has it's limits.I remember someone posting scan to show me but im not sure it will work on someone like Norrin.
What limits? As far as I'm aware, it has no limits...he used it during the human race on the entire planet.
@newecho: speedsteal is the dumbest thing ever created and it has it's limits.I remember someone posting scan to show me but im not sure it will work on someone like Norrin.
What limits? As far as I'm aware, it has no limits...he used it during the human race on the entire planet.
That does not mean he can speedsteal Odin, celestials.
@artyom: Well technically I think he means that some characters are above speed steal.. Odin could be speed stole all day but it wouldn't change the outcome of the fight..Wally would lose...
@newecho: speedsteal is the dumbest thing ever created and it has it's limits.I remember someone posting scan to show me but im not sure it will work on someone like Norrin.
What limits? As far as I'm aware, it has no limits...he used it during the human race on the entire planet.
That does not mean he can speedsteal Odin, celestials.
@ghostrider2: He could speed steal odin,, it just wouldn't matter... He could shut time down.... He has speed stole from characters like the AM... Speed steal just doesn't get him a win to people who can beat him with out even moving...
@ghostrider2: He could speed steal odin,, it just wouldn't matter... He could shut time down.... He has speed stole from characters like the AM... Speed steal just doesn't get him a win to people who can beat him with out even moving...
Where do people get that he speed stole AM? I read chain lighting over and over again looking for any indication of him doing so, and there was none.
@artyom: I thought he just kept speed stealing am over and over and then lending speed to the JL... I guess it doesn't really matter as this isn't odin... The argument could be made tho that since surfer can manipulate energy and matter,, could he prevent speed stealing?
@artyom: I thought he just kept speed stealing am over and over and then lending speed to the JL... I guess it doesn't really matter as this isn't odin... The argument could be made tho that since surfer can manipulate energy and matter,, could he prevent speed stealing?
That's been a common theory, but it's a featless theory. You'd have to ask someone more educated on Flash than myself. Didn't Amazo have control over his own molecules since he had MMH's powers, or is that different?
@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: Your reaching,,, that is a physical attack in which he was knocked out...Mjolnir is lit up as it is in most of thor's fights.. It never said he was draining surfer's energy which I am not sure he could even do to surfer....Force has knocked out surfer....
@newecho: Any of the feats where Wally does something in a picosecond implies sub picosecond reaction time. When he uses the battle computer against Solaris he can think calculate up to a billion plans per nanosecond, which would be 10^18 plans per second or 1 plan per attosecond, which is necessarily less than a thought per attosecond because plans and typing are more than one short, reactive thought. When he did the "save 500,000 people from a nuke" feat it would also be easily calculable for him to need less than an attosecond of reaction time to be able to find a person and run them back in such a short time.
@supermanwithatan01: If you do it that way, then thor has much better reaction time than he is given credit for and surfer will have attosecond reaction time too,,, look at his saving cap from getting hit from across the universe feat... I generally don't use math to quantify feats tho. I am not saying that its not right either.. I do believe the half million people in a micro second(can't remember)? was the fastest thing I have ever seen him do tho...You are probably right if we do the math that is probably an attosecond feat...
@supermanwithatan01: also people do the math thing with spiderman,, there is a site dedicated to it,, It says he is faster than sound and they break it down by feats with the math to qualify what they are saying.. I really think that is a slippery slope when trying to justify feats or to qualify a feat by math and not writers...I can't remember the site either as its been several years since I even read it..
It might seem that this match is set up for Flash but I never stated that Silver Surfer is depowered. Silver Surfer has and can use the Power Cosmic during the entire fight. If Flash is allowed to use Speed Force to bolster his physical stats why can't Silver Surfer use Power Cosmic to do the same? Silver Surfer can use the Power Cosmic as long as he doesn't break the rules. I'm interested to know if Silver Surfer can steal/drain Flash's kinetic energy. Silver Surfer is also no stranger to intangibility.
@hatemalingsia: he isn't depowered but he isn't allowed to do the things that make him fast ie flight.. Surfer could beat him off planet in normal circumstances. ... could he drain wally?? Probably but that was never done in the pre new 52 so that discussion would be a rounded one.
@saren: At half the speed of light, the relativistic mass of Flash's foot is increased by 15%, that's a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery small moon... DC writers shoud definitely stop trying to quantify feats and using physics they don't understand.
I think you're missing the point, he's explaining the force of impact his foot has, though yeah comics writers tend to mix the "relativistic mass increase" thing with "force in pounds from relativistic acceleration." Heck if you increase his foot to just short of the speed of light it's only like 12,000x "heavier." The intent is that it's like a moon hit her in the back of the head because of how fast it was going.
You could accelerate a piece of lint to half the speed of light and it'd cause untold havoc.
Helpful: DC's latest release has it that Wally doesn't even need to build up speed for relativistic attacks. He can fire out massive strikes at will.
That was him holding back and trying not to kill Wonder Woman. I suppose he could have simply vaporized her with a hundred of those rather than just KO her.
To be fair, if you're gonna use a Convergence feat, it's important to realize how he was REALLY, REALLY bad. Like, Wonder Woman straight whooped his ass with little effort and he only won because she was distracted. That's par for the course with event books, but I wouldn't take Convergence Wally in a hand to hand fight with nearly any powerhouse.
@hatemalingsia: he isn't depowered but he isn't allowed to do the things that make him fast ie flight.. Surfer could beat him off planet in normal circumstances. ... could he drain wally?? Probably but that was never done in the pre new 52 so that discussion would be a rounded one.
That's the kind of thought that I'd expected from this thread. I would leave it to the SS experts out there. I'm tired of people saying SS has no Power Cosmic in this battle.
Which one, him having a black hole dropped on top of him by two nearly omnipotent beings and getting out just fine or the one where he goes inside a singularity contained within one of his friends?
@hatemalingsia: he has no feats without flight involved to suggest he can keep up with Wally.Surfer can use the power cosmic to his heart content but if he is having to run wally down then he has no way to effectively use it. He's at a disadvantage from the start..
I don't know what circles there are to go in. Wally has demonstrably survived being inside black holes, I was partly agreeing and partly correcting the first statement, and I was even arguing against Saren's use of the Convergence feat.
To be fair, if you're gonna use a Convergence feat, it's important to realize how he was REALLY, REALLY bad. Like, Wonder Woman straight whooped his ass with little effort and he only won because she was distracted. That's par for the course with event books, but I wouldn't take Convergence Wally in a hand to hand fight with nearly any powerhouse.
Eh. He dodged pretty much everything she threw at him and was throwing her through windows like he had super-strength; the only reason she managed to overpower him was the Count Vertigo grenades that appeared out of nowhere and made it impossible for him to see straight. I'm not sure how a civilization manages to dissect Werner and weaponize his powers but still needs fire for lighting, but there you go.
To be fair, if you're gonna use a Convergence feat, it's important to realize how he was REALLY, REALLY bad. Like, Wonder Woman straight whooped his ass with little effort and he only won because she was distracted. That's par for the course with event books, but I wouldn't take Convergence Wally in a hand to hand fight with nearly any powerhouse.
Eh. He dodged pretty much everything she threw at him and was throwing her through windows like he had super-strength; the only reason she managed to overpower him was the Count Vertigo grenades that appeared out of nowhere and made it impossible for him to see straight. I'm not sure how a civilization manages to dissect Werner and weaponize his powers but still needs fire for lighting, but there you go.
Wally "barely having a speed advantage" over Wonder Woman is pretty obscene jobbing. Also just, you know, forgetting half of his powers. He was dead to rights (by his own words) after a pretty meek showing. Typical event stuff but you're picking the best of a bad showing.
Twas a pretty good comic, though. Probably my second favorite of the Convergence batch this month. It was nice seeing someone, especially Wally, finally tell Flashpoint Diana just how terrible a person and character she is.
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