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#1 Edited by TheReptile (190 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright we know Flash is pretty OP but can he beat Pre-crisis Superman?

Pre Crisis Superman has moved countless planets with ease, sneeze a solar system away and has a hell of a lot of powers, these are just a few of his feats

But do you think Flash could take him?
If your going to comment at least give a reason why one of them would win/lose

#2 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20373 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes spite stomp. He's faster than infinity.

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#3 Posted by nickthedevil (11678 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes spite stomp. He's faster than infinity.

You want to go that way, Flash outran the Universe and left existence.

idk what that means, but he did it pretty damn fast.

#4 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20373 posts) - - Show Bio

@Docnick yeah but supes went so fast so far the Spectre had to stop him.

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#5 Posted by nickthedevil (11678 posts) - - Show Bio

@Docnick yeah but supes went so fast so far the Spectre had to stop him.

Whoa, no way?

#6 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20373 posts) - - Show Bio

@Docnick yup I'd show you the scans but I'm on my phone

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#7 Posted by nickthedevil (11678 posts) - - Show Bio

@Docnick yup I'd show you the scans but I'm on my phone

You don't say?

#8 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (23405 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes spite stomp. He's faster than infinity.

In travel speed?Maybe. In combat speed?Not a chance, despite all of his godly feats I have yet to see him react in a picosecond and perceive events that last a attosecond the Flash can and has. If this is Wally, he would steal PC Supes speed,and then proceed to pummel him with IMP's.

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#9 Posted by SheenLantern (6268 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@allstarsuperman said:

Supes spite stomp. He's faster than infinity.

In travel speed?Maybe. In combat speed?Not a chance, despite all of his godly feats I have yet to see him react in a picosecond and perceive events that last a attosecond the Flash can and has. If this is Wally, he would steal PC Supes speed,and then proceed to pummel him with IMP's.

Oh come on, it's PC Supes, no way an IMP is gonna even leave a dent in him, I mean, an IMP only hits with the force of a supernova, and his sneezes are canonically stronger than that.

Also, what's the point of stealing the speed of someone with >infinite speed, surely he has enough to spare?

As always, PC Superman snaps his fingers and the resulting shockwave destroys the galaxy. Either that or he makes up a new power to curbstomp Flash.

#10 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (1664 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know why people put PC Superman in battle threads. That character is not serious and makes 0 to no sense! Arguing against a character that makes up his own supermoves on the go is just... no.

Flash is stupidly powerful but not that stupid.

#11 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (23405 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern:

Oh come on, it's PC Supes, no way an IMP is gonna even leave a dent in him,

Yes they will PC Supes has been hurt by far far less.

I mean, an IMP only hits with the force of a supernova,

It hit with the force of a white dwarf not a supenova and what does him sneezing away a solar system have to do with his durability? A

and his sneezes are canonically stronger than that.

So? The only reason he done that was because of Mxy magic powder IIRC.

Also, what's the point of stealing the speed of someone with >infinite speed, surely he has enough to spare?

PC Supes does not have infinite speed.

As always, PC Superman snaps his fingers and the resulting shockwave destroys the galaxy.

Okay now your just waking him.

Either that or he makes up a new power to curbstomp Flash.

Not going to happen.

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#12 Edited by fiodestromus (980 posts) - - Show Bio

@docnick: It means he is so fast he beat the ever expanding universe

Meaning he escaped reality you have to be really fast to do that

and doing that makes fast an understatment

#13 Posted by russellmania77 (14628 posts) - - Show Bio

pshh spite. pc supes broke demensions, ate kryptonite, time traveled n lot more b.s

#14 Edited by SheenLantern (6268 posts) - - Show Bio

It hit with the force of a white dwarf not a supenova

My mistake, so it's actually weaker than I thought? Well, it's settled then! He can effortlessly survive supernovas, so he must be able to shrug off IMPs, too!

So? The only reason he done that was because of Mxy magic powder IIRC

Yes, and? You don't think Superman is capable of sneezing without powder? Even if he can't, if his sneezes are that powerful imagine how strong his...you know...PUNCHES are...

PC Supes does not have infinite speed.

Can't argue with the scans, buddy.

Okay now your just waking him.

As if he's never done anything that obsurd before.

Not going to happen.

Riiiiiight, so Super-Ventriloquism, Super-Shapeshifting, Super-Telekinesis, Super-Aging Breath and the ability to kill himself and bring himself back at will are all fair game, but the ability to kill Flash is just SOOOO rediculous!

#15 Posted by SuperFan98 (7 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash may be a little bit faster but also supes has advantages in strenght, flying and other abilities so this is for Superman.

#16 Posted by PowerWoman (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: SA superman once took a big bang,faster than infinity,PC supergirl once break hold entire universe together power,and PC superboy take a energy enough destroy universe inside his body,PC supergirl another verson suprema who can lift our entire universe weight....just stop

This thread just spit

#17 Edited by PowerWoman (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: Mxy magic powder not grow up SA superman sneeze..did you really read his comics book?is just make superman want to sneeze,just all

#18 Edited by Dredeuced (5357 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: I thought it made a normal man's sneeze blow down a building or something?

#19 Posted by PowerWoman (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: Belive me,say this just spit lie,the normal people just sneeze,not blow up car or building,just normal sneeze,they are never really read SA superman comics book,if you really read them,you would be belive if as long as hard superman super-breath would be end of universe

#20 Posted by Dredeuced (5357 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: THat wasn't my point. You said Mxy's sneezing powder wouldn't increase the strength of Superman's sneeze, but it DID increase the strength of other people's sneezes.

When it magnified superman's well known breath powers, it made him sneeze away the solar system. You were stating it did not. I didn't weigh in on the argument either way. Superman's sneeze doesn't NORMALLY blow away Solar Systems, even Pre Crisis -- just when Mxy's reality warping magic is involved.

#21 Edited by PowerWoman (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: not magnified superman's power,are you really read this comics?the mxy magic dust just make people want to sneeze,and they are just normal sneeze,not blow up anything,just normal sneeze,not increase the strength normal people sneeze

also,PC superman once take big bang,faster than infinity,supergirl break hold the entire universe together power and lift our entire universe weight,he was crazy powerful

#22 Edited by Dredeuced (5357 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: No, I do not own any silver age Superman comics. But I do remember someone on this forum posting previous pages from the comic and it showing that it was indeed Mxy's powder that caused his sneeze to be so powerful.

Supergirl's feats aren't Superman's.

I don't know, what's to stop Wally from doing this:

Does he have super anti-dimensional phasing? has PC Superman ever punched someone who was intangible?

Lifting the universe would be cool if it even applied to the fight. Wally can literally steal the speed out of his Neurons and he can't think anymore.

This all assumes Wally is bloodlusted. If not, he loses. Having a long list of powers and stupid feats doesn't mean anything if you can't apply them to a fight.

#23 Posted by PowerWoman (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: The normal people not increase the strength,stop....just stop Internet lies,why not?in the silver age,supergirl is 100% equal to SA superman,unless your never read SA comics book

PC superman once take energy enough destroy universe inside his body,i dont think this can hurt him

#24 Edited by TifaLockhart (14043 posts) - - Show Bio

The Internet breaks?

#25 Posted by Dredeuced (5357 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: It doesn't have to hurt him. It's not an attack that can be measured as an energy level. It's just using dimensional phasing to separate his brain from his body. Which would probably kill him, unless PC Supes has a feat where he lives without his brain in his head (it wouldn't surprise me but I'd need proof).

#26 Posted by TifaLockhart (14043 posts) - - Show Bio

I dunno, man, reading Pre-C comics leaves me feeling brainless. Of course, I am kinda stupid most of the time....

#27 Posted by PowerWoman (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: i dont think this can hurt superman,in the SA comics book,superman always have PIS power,just all

#28 Edited by Dredeuced (5357 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: Yeah, and in some SA comics he couldn't break out of a bog standard steel cage. PIS goes both ways.

My point is, is there a PIS feat of him surviving phasing his brain out of his head? If not then how would he win? Why wouldn't it hurt him? Unless you're saying "If a Silver Age Writer was writing it then it would not kill him because they would use some form of PIS," then that is not a legitimate argument, because PIS is removed for our hypothetical battles.

Wally certainly has better reaction speed than him, so he'd get the first move and could do that.

#29 Edited by TifaLockhart (14043 posts) - - Show Bio

No offense, but Crisis happened for a reason. I've read PIS-C books before and am scarred for life. He leaps one eighth of a mile NOW HE'S IN SPACE WTF WHY IS THERE A DEAD MONKEY?

#30 Posted by PowerWoman (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: The SA superman always have funny low level,i agree,but we need use his top feats not low feats,he strength enough lift our entire universe weight(Based on some scientific reports,universe weight is 10x56 tons)faster than infinity,take a big bang,if he want to end of universe,just need as long as hard to use his super breath,i dont think flash can beat this guy as well

#31 Posted by Dredeuced (5357 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: That's not an argument, though. Wally has better reaction speed and could take his brain out of his head.

If you assume superman is willing to destroy the universe to win a fight then I'm assuming Wally would be willing to kill Superman. Being able to lift the universe does not stop him from dying without his brain. Being able to blow out a sun with his superbreath does not stop him from dying without his brain. Powerlevels aren't a relevant argument.

#32 Posted by TifaLockhart (14043 posts) - - Show Bio

Remember all those silly Superman spinoff titles? Yeah, I'm trying to forget too. What kind of writer has him forcing Jimmy to marry an ape?

#33 Edited by PowerWoman (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: I'm doubt flash can do it,the PC superman once take energy enough destroy universe inside his body,how can flash kill him?

#34 Edited by TifaLockhart (14043 posts) - - Show Bio

The same way he busted up the Anti-Monitor. *runs away*

#35 Edited by PowerWoman (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_last_son_of_czarnia: PC supergirl toe with toe fight COIE AM,who destroy 3,000 universe and absorb them energy to grow up himself power,she almost kill him

#36 Posted by TifaLockhart (14043 posts) - - Show Bio

And then he got back more powerful than before, and Wally smashed his armor to bits at invisible superspeed.

#37 Posted by PowerWoman (3339 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Posted by dondave (34756 posts) - - Show Bio

I dunno, man, reading Pre-C comics leaves me feeling brainless. Of course, I am kinda stupid most of the time....

#39 Posted by TifaLockhart (14043 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: Flash #150 "Chain Lightning" by Mark Waid.

#40 Edited by Dredeuced (5357 posts) - - Show Bio
@powerwoman said:

@dredeuced: I'm doubt flash can do it,the PC superman once take energy enough destroy universe inside his body,how can flash kill him?

You keep repeating this. My answer isn't any different. Flash is not shooting Superman with an energy beam in an attempt to kill him. He is using his powers of dimensional transportation to put Superman's brain in a different dimension from his own.

It has nothing to do with durability. It has nothing to do with how much damage Superman can take. Unless he is directly invulnerable to phasing then he dies.

The scan Czarnia is talking about:

He did not win the fight but he did bust his armor, which was more than Pre Crisis Superman (who was in that fight) could do.

#41 Posted by PowerWoman (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: In the silver age,superman is true invulnerable,even other Kryptonians cant hurt him,i dont know this is directly invuinerable?

#42 Edited by Dredeuced (5357 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: This ignores invulnerability. Flash has phased through Superman before. Barry Allen did it to Superman in any number of the issues where Superman went evil. There's absolutely no reason to think PC Superman, in all his shenanigans, is immune to Flash's phasing.

#43 Posted by TifaLockhart (14043 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre-C Superman wasn't always depicted as truly invulnerable. Just really really hard to damage.

#44 Posted by PowerWoman (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_last_son_of_czarnia: Is a little different,

Silver age:,any kryptonian was equal to superman on the earth,and superman no more experience than them,a female kryptonian also equal to male krytonian in strength,speed,etc,any kryptonian was true Invulnerability,they are cant hurt each other

Bronze Age level:superman has more experience than other kryptonians,and a superman could be stronger than superwoman just like man stronger than woman,any kryptonian no more true invunlnerability,yes,if you has enough power,you can hurt them

#45 Posted by PowerWoman (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: This even not really happened in the crisis,look this scan not from pre-crisis comics book,is post-crisis,i dont think they are was same thing,also,this not normal flash for sure

This AM is multiverse level,i dont think even SA superman can hurt him,flash not multiverse level

#46 Posted by Dredeuced (5357 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: They are not the same thing.

Anti-Monitor was actually more powerful in the scan shown. This was because Cobalt Blue caused the death of Barry Allen before he could give his life to destroy the Anti Matter Cannon from COIE. This made Anti Monitor even more powerful and made it so that he actually WON the Crisis. Wally went back in time to fix it.

The Anti Monitor depicted in Chain Lightning is actually the most powerful version. Wally could not beat him -- merely destroy his armor. I stated as much in my post. But destroying his armor was more than every single DC Hero could muster. I could post the entire fight if you want.

#47 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (23405 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm aching to reply to this nonsense in this thread but I can't because I'm on my phone......

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#48 Posted by TifaLockhart (14043 posts) - - Show Bio

My nonsense?

#49 Posted by PowerWoman (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: But these scan not really from Pre-crisis,this scan just post-crisis,i doubt the AM power level is same thing

#50 Posted by TifaLockhart (14043 posts) - - Show Bio

Just to see what happens,

*mentions Darkseid, runs away again*