Flash Rogues vs Naruto Team

@princearagorn1: I know full well of MM. I debated against him alot lol. I just wanted to see what others may rage about on here.

So the only way to win for Naruto is that Kakashi bfrs all their heads ^^ - but i doubt that he would do that.

He only needs to bfr mm. He's way too powerful to be here..

@diredrill: I'm not ignoring it.

Question: what will either MM or CC do once Amaterasu sets them ablaze (please read up on Amaterasu before you respond)?

Question: how will they escape a simple genjutsu? Or tsukyomi? Or Kamui? (again, read up)

Just answer those two simple questions, please.

I love how you're telling others to read up.

Hand to hand? Yeah.

Idiotic, but I don't chalk it up to a loss. I count it as PIS, in actuality. I've seen Owen dodge faster more impressive opponents. I've seen him tag Deadshot's bullets using paperclips.

He's hit the Flash head on, and even Wally said it was going pretty fast.

Amaterasu has terrible feats. Karin was set a blaze for a few seconds and wasn't hurt at all, same with a Samurai's metal armor. Sasuke's Amaterasu has been shown to be weak time and time again, and Captain Cold is a clear counter to it. Also they only burn for 7 days, not eternity.

Escape genjutsu? MM takes out their eyes. Tsukyomi? No one has that on the Naruto side (Sasuke's two shown jutsu are Amaterasu and kagutsuchi). Kamui? Move, have MM bring them back from the dimension. Not that Kakashi uses that on people in character.

Cold can solo, MM can solo, Weather Wizard can probably solo.

@odinsonnn: I looked into Ameterasu, and regardless of what it actually is, it functions like any other energy attack which Captain Cold eats for breakfast. MM will have already disappeared.

MM takes their eyes and none of those Genjutsus work.

When Naruto characters can kill a Flash, we'll talk.

Shadow Clone spamming FTW!

Team Naruto ;D!

Er.. no one here is a threat to a serious flash except mirror master.. Flash is downplayed most of times just so that he can actually get a story and not one panel he's blitzing.

Speaking of which, what are the best speed/reflex feats of MM? (Don't say he tags flash, something objective)

Does he even have clear-cut superhuman reflexes?

@darkraiden:  

1. Sasuke (the only person known capable of doing so) put out Amaterasu before she got horribly hurt. Don't leave stuff out. 

2. Please show/explain how Amaterasu has "shown to be weak" and please show/explain those instances "time and time again." Don't just talk. 

3. I asked how can they escape genjutsu. How can MM take out their eyes when he's already caught in the illusion?

4. All mangekyou sharingan wielders possess three unique techniques (Susano'o, Amaterasu, Tsukyomi). *like i said, most of you know little to nothing about these characters* Sasuke isn't as good as itachi is with Tsukyomi, just as itachi isn't as good with Amaterasu as sasuke is (hence why he's the only one capable of putting it out). But the fact is that they both possess each of those three abilities by obtaining their mangekyous (Kakashi is a different story because he only has one mangekyou sharingan and it's not even his). 

5. Again you clearly do not know what your speaking about: Kakashi INTRODUCED kamui by tearing a man's arm clean off. He used it on Naruto, Bee as well as the Hachibi several times in his fight against Obito. 

6. Amaterasu burns for seven days AFTER the material it is burning has been reduced to ash. Meaning it will still burn without a fuel source for seven days. Seeing how flesh, and all other matter, is obviously a proven fuel source--those seven days in regards to after the flesh would be reduced to ash do not matter. MM, CC (straight through his cold field) will burn continuously until there is nothing left to burn (and THEN it will continue to burn for seven days).

@nickthedevil: this is why I tell others to read up. Because they debate without knowing much of any facts (which I find absurd). 

@diredrill: Amaterasu is not an energy attack. It's a flame produced by a users eye: no fuel source, no oxygen, no elemental makeup--pure flames that burn as hot as the sun.

You and your friend love to leave out important details. MM cannot make someone blind permanently. He can appear in an eye's reflection causing them to temporarily lose sight, but he can't do much of anything else in that reflection (and once he leaves it's over). And to make things worse than that useless trick: Amaterasu doesn't technically burn what you look at, it burns whatever is in the reflection of the weilder's eyes (aka Mirror Man). Bad idea. 

Sidenote: Flash. I love the guy, but if you are capable of getting your hands on him, killing him and his relatively weaker durability is not gonna be hard in the slightest (and seeing how plenty of ppl have gotten their hands on him: it ain't impossible).

@odinsonnn: Mirror Master is able to replicate himself, and make a sizable number of clones, and I know the Naruto team is able to clone themselves too.

What I see as a possibility is that Mirror Master ( not Mirror MAN ) replicates himself several times, then appears in the reflective parts of the Naruto Team's eyes, so his clones can occupy the surfaces too, thus he wouldn't have to leave and un-blind them.

He could also appear in ANY reflective surface that the Naruto Team is carrying on their person, I don't know if they use ninja stars or swords or anything, but he could appear in them. He also has the ability to kill someones reflection, and when he does that, they're unable to fight back.

His powerset isn't just useless parlor tricks, it's incredibly powerful and useful for pretty much ANY situation.

1. Doesn't matter. Any flame that's truly as hot as you claim Amaterasu is, would have burned her to a crisp in that time. But it didn't even hurt her.

2. Karin, Samurai Armor, Raikage's arm (seriously it was just sitting there, no pain, nothing). It seems to be much weaker than Itachi's for w/e reason.

3. They have to look Sasuke in the eye to get caught, but that's not exactly a known move for them that they often perform in battle. They don't need to escape it, because the likelihood of being caught is like 1000 to 1.

4. Wrong. Madara has yet to shown any of those but Susanoo. Sasuke has 3 jutsu (stated amount for MS), Kagatsuchi, Amaterasu, Susanoo and has no Tsukyomi, and Obito and Kakashi have kamui and neither of the 3. That's a totally false statement.

5. He tore off a small part of someone's arm and that was in crisis cause the guy was getting away. He rarely uses it in head up battle. Rarely.

6. Nope it was only given the 7 days number, no assumptions. So yeah it'll burn for 7 days, but unfortunately Cold's gun easily counters it.

7. Amaterasu uses chakra and thus uses energy and thus is an energy attack. All things use and have energy. Period.

And no Amaterasu burns what's in sight, has a long buildup of closing the eye and then dripping blood, and by that time, Cold would have just shot Sasuke while MM distracted him. Worse case scenario, Sasuke wastes Amaterasu on a MM clone.

@odinsonnn: you nailed it

@darkraiden:  

1. http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Amaterasu >> scroll down to "Overview"

2. Like I said, Sasuke literally defied previously known laws of the mangekyou and PUT THE FLAMES OUT before she got seriously injured. The Raikage immediately cut his arm off himself to avoid further damage from the flames (his arm was still ablaze after his self-amputation). Why do you insist in leaving out key details?

3. They have to make eye contact to be trapped in a genjutsu, not to be covered in Amaterasu or Kamui. While the first is relatively more difficult than the latter, I mentioned earlier that neither combatants are aware of their opponents' skillset. That being said who doesn't make eye contact? Yes Sasuke does not utilize genjutsu as frequently as someone like Itachi but the fact is that he is certainly capable of doing so; something you also insist on leaving out. 

4. Again, you're speaking with little to no knowledge of the Naruto universe. I will repeat it once more, the awakening of the mangekyou sharingan grants the user at least three abilities (Amaterasu--right eye, Tsukyomi--left eye, and Susano'o). How can you speak on Madara, let alone say "he is incapable of using Tsukyomi," when he and Obito's master plan is to place the world under the "Infinite Tsukyomi" where everyone is subject to their reality? If you would rather just continue speaking so boldly as if you know what you're talking about, go ahead. If not then read (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Mangekyō_Sharingan) >> scroll to "Variations"

5. You're point shaving. Early in the manga he tore the entire arm of Deidara using Kamui. He was no where near as experienced as he is now--which makes your last statement ("rarely uses it in head on battle") make you sound even more absurd for, again, speaking on that which you do not know. In his most recent battle against Obito (the man who originated the technique) the conflict was fought 80% solely with the varied use of kamui by the two of them. A "head on battle" against his former best friend involving transposing himself, and others, back and forth from the kamui dimension and our dimension. I am convinced you're just blurting statements at this point. 

6. Again read up (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Amaterasu). Amaterasu does not stop burning until seven days without a fuel source. If the flame is on CC's earlobe (yes, sasuke is that accurate) his earlobe will not stop burning until it is completely reduced to ash--and even then the flames will not subside for another seven days. But seeing how there is always a fuel source on planet earth (grass, dirt, even water) the technique is understood to never subside. It would only be relevant in maybe the vacuum of space. 

7. Amaterasu REQUIRES chakra to be dispelled, it is not made of chakra. Even if that was the case, chakra is life energy (ki). It is not of molecular make-up, it is the natural spirit of an organism manifested into a sustaining source of life. It is not subject to "absolute zero". 

8. Amaterasu sets instantly, sir. It strains the eye greatly which is why the user's eye may begin to bleed AS he is using (not while he is "building it up"). But like I said Sasuke is the most proficient user of these flames. He created his own ninjutsu for God's sake (Inferno Style: flame control).

@thetruebarryallen: Mirror Master (forgive me) is a very formidable foe, but you're arguments are honestly making him seem less significant to this fight than I actually believe he is.

He does not want to waste his time appearing on reflections. Sasuke carries a katana yes, but a katana he can instantly cover in electricity (bad idea MM) or Amaterasu (bad idea MM).

He does not want a clone battle with Naruto Uzumaki. Popping into reflective surface won't matter to Naruto using Senjutsu (sage mode). He is in tune with all things natural and will be able to sense the real MM instantly. Not to mention nothing on his persons is reflective when he is in chakra mode.

Pein uses planetary devastation (a tiny mass of very powerful gravitational pull--has been shown to continuously pull the earth from its roots into its grav. pull until there is nothing left [unless the jutsu is stopped]) and they are all instantly pulled into the center mass of gravity that emulates a black hole. Any answer for that?

1. I don't need a wiki, I've seen it first hand. I repeat, if it was truly hot fire, the Samurai would have burned, Karin would have burned in that time, and Raikage's arm would have been incinerated. I know he chopped his arm off, it has no bearing. Fire burns much hotter than most humans can take, if it were as hot as you claim, Karin, Samurai, Raikage would have died. Hell it even struggled to burn down a forest at one point.

3. The Rogues don't tend to make eye contact randomly. Genjutsu isn't even kakashi nor Sasuke's favored form of attacking. It's not likely to happen in this battle.

4. Wrong. I know as much, if not more about Naruto than you. It was stated that every MS had each ability, but then Sasuke had Kagatsuchi, a different one and has no showings of Tsukyomi. Logic dictates that the databook is wrong....again. Madara has never used Tsukyomi on panel either and thus doesn't have it (if he had Amaterasu and Tsukyomi and STILL hasn't used it and has never used it against hashirama, then he's retarded). We've seen Madara go all out, not a Amaterasu or Tsukyomi in sight. And Obito's gonna do infinite tsukyomi as well, but guess what he doesn't have the actual technique known as tsukyomi. Just like Madara.

5. Time he's used it on people: Deidara's arm as he was escaping, His allies in the war, that's it. Times he only used it on projectiles in dire need: Deidara's bomb, Sasuke's arrow, Pain's nail and other projectiles. He uses it more as a defensive move. And stop playing dumb, he used it nearly exclusively against Obito because that same dimension where he sends people and things was (retconned) to be the same dimension Obito phases too. So it was the last ditch, only way to hit and hurt Obito. That's not a normal circumstance at all. And that won't occur here, because no Obito.

6. Sasuke's not that accurate for one. And human body is not usually considered fuel for fire. It doesn't stop burning for 7 days and 7 nights. That's all that's been stated. and Cold would just stop it, again.

7. Chakra has molecules, because it's energy. Whether it's life energy or spirit energy or physical energy, it's still energy and thus exists and thus has molecules. For 1, it's fire, which has molecules, and 2 it needs chakra to be created, and thus uses energy. This is a terribly weak argument to claim Amaterasu doesn't have molecules. If it didn't it wouldn't affect anything. Ever.

8. Wrong, it takes time. That's how A dodged it. And to build up, every time it's used it's been show that the eye closes, blood drips, and then Amaterasu. Every time. It's a quite obvious move and Cold can easily beat it regardless.

@odinsonnn:

I don't understand how you're hurting MM.

He's in the Mirror World when he appears in reflections, which is a different plane of existence. Sure, you can cover the Katana with electricity but it's not going to damage MM.

In response to the clone battle, it could go on forever, both of them can create unlimited clones, so that's silly and useless.

As for avoiding the black hole? MM brings em all to the Mirror World & they're fine.

PLEASE, NARUTO'S TEAM WINS, LET'S IGNORE THIS THREAD. IT OBVIOUS THAT NARUTO FANS ARE ON A RAMPAGE.. THERE'S NO STOPPING THEM. *ugh*

Actually naruto team can't create unlimited clones. Not even close. Max shown was 3000.

yep, but there's a limit, depending on the chakra

kill this thread.

Naruto is too outclassed here.

MM takes all of their eye based attacks out immediately, sends thousands of clones at them, and outright killed their reflection.

Cold's gun produces bright flashes that require him to wear a special set of shades. He won't ever lock eyes with any of the opposing team because he can't.

Weather Wizard's eyes generally have awesome lightning in them so he won't succumb to any eye-based attack.

Owen is a non factor here, Cold'll send him to the store for a soda.

Genjutsu, Tsukyomi would be useless on them.

Unless Amaterasu is specifically a magical attack, it still is subject to the rules of reality so it is some exotic form of energy which would still get stomped into the ground by Cold's Cold gun.

This is a stomp, arguing any further just makes your fanboy bent better known.

@diredrill: You've probably provided the worst argument out of everyone in favor of the rogues. It's almost like your little brother is posting for you. To call one side's supporting debaters fanboys is to do the same for the opposing side.

Stick to the debate (and in your case, get better at debating).

@odinsonnn: Diredrill is actually a pretty decent debater, and it's true, the Naruto team is outclassed here.

Resorting to namecalling or insults won't help win a debate for either side :)

@odinsonnn: When you provide points that have not already been countered and rendered moot, we'll debate but you essentially keep saying that your guys win because people don't know them well enough. When your argument is simply telling other people to read up on a subject, you have already lost. This is a comic site, information for anime characters must be provided by those supporting it. The power of the Rogues is well documented both in this thread and on the Vine. Not admitting that the Naruto team loses here is exactly as I have described it.

@darkraiden:   

1. You're arguing whether or not the flames are hot (do you see how knit-picky this has gotten). Karin was unconscious at the time (her face was underwater) of course she'd show no reaction to what's going on (and that was before Sasuke put the flames out). The Raikage has a very high tolerance for pain (his father the third Raikage was said to have flesh as hard as steel, and was proven when he was resurrected by Kabuto). He showed no signs of pain when it was burning his arm (for the short time it was still attached) and he showed no pain when he immediately cut his arm off (all he asked what that his assistant quickly stop the bleeding so he can continue the fight). If you read, or if you knew (as you claim you do), you'd know the flames take longer than normal to reach peak heat--which they certainly do--(as shown when the entire Hachibi was set ablaze).

3. Genjutsu may not be likely to be used by Kakashi and/or Sasuke, but my point is that they are capable of doing so.

4. You literally over-rided the databook based on your "logic"; mistake number 1. I just explained to you that each of the sharingan wielders are more or less adept at the specific techniques (granted to them all) than each other. Sasuke is the most proficient with Amaterasu. Itachi is the most proficient with Tsukyomi (as well as most other genjutsu; its insane how good he is with genjutsu) and Madara's Susano'o is unparalleled. He is the only one known to have reached a Perfect Susano'o, and can utilize multiple, giant clones of his Perfect Susano'o (he even armors the Kyuubi with an entire Susano'o on a regular basis against Hashirama)--don't play stupid. This is just speculation but I believe that is the triple dynamic the writer was aiming for as far as those three main techniques are concerned (but the fact remains that each of them are certainly capable of performing those techniques). Obito has a signiture technique with his Sharingan (Kamui) that no other wielder has been shown to use; this has yet to be explained. 

5. I'm not sure what you were trying to say about his fight with Obito. He uses his ability to move matter back/forth from the kamui dimension to battle with Obito. Where in there does it say he can't use it on someone else? The fact that it was against Obito is what made the battle so difficult (figuring out how to land a direct strike on him [the most adept kamui user]), using it in battle against ppl who have no defense for it is almost cakewalk. I really don't understand what you're getting at.

6. Sasuke is extremley accurate (on top of the basic accuracy anyone would have if all they had to do was look at something to hit it). You obviously did not read/do not know what you're talking about. If you would stop being so stubborn you would see that the seven days are only in regards to after the fuel source has been reduced to ash (like I said the planet is full of things to burn so it is eternal in essence). Did you say the body isn't a fuel source (cannot be set on fire)?

7. Chakra is not made up of molecules. Fire is not made up of molecules, it is the rapid oxidation and combustion of molecules  that are already present (aka fuel source). That is why only matter can be set on fire-- fire cannot exist on its own because it is not made up of molecules. Amaterasu, however, can.

8. It is produced instantly. You can only dodge it by being faster than the weilder's eyesight (which A was doing), but even then he still got caught. It doesn't take any build up, man. The strain comes from the extended use of it.

I enjoyed debating with you (I believe we've crossed opinions before) but I really don't have it in me to go back and forth about this anymore.

@diredrill: I just feel like you're oblivious to anything that doesn't compliment your argument. It's hard to get specific with each one of you.

Also I never caught when a clear winner was set in this debate (which makes your last statement--and all other associated ones--invalid).

You're arguing in a vacuum completely void of all opposing arguments and you only acknowledge points that compliment your own (as I said earlier). That is not a literary argument by definition and I can't really respect it.

@odinsonnn: You clearly have not done any research into the Rogues whereas I have done research into Naruto. It is ridiculous that you stand so adamant against something that is a forgone conclusion for most.

This is a Planetary Threat versus a City-wide Threat at best. Like I said, call me when they kill someone on the Flash's level because The Rogues have personally put down a Flash.

1. The flames have not proven to be deadly or overly hot except when Itachi uses them

3. Yes but it's not likely right now

4. I override the databook with manga showings. Databook says neji/gaara has ultimate defense, they've been broken and thus they dont. Databook says Amaterasu is hot as the sun, obviously, not true. Databook says MS = susanoo, tsukyomi, and amaterasu. Sasuke has never shown tsukuyomi, only amaterasu and kagatsuchi. madara's only show Susanoo. Until on panel proof is provided, it's not fact. Period. Also Itachi's Susanoo >>>Madara's. It's literally unbeatable.

5. Kakashi, in character only used Kamui on people trying to escape (Deidara) and people who were directly connected to the Kamui dimension (Obito) and never any other time. Period. He's not using it here.

6. He's never proven a lot of accuracy. The body is not extra fuel, it can burn but it will not stoke or increase a fire's heat.

7. Fire has molecules as proven by your explanation. Oxidation and combustion of molecules. If molecules is present anywhere in the explanation,. absolute zero stops it. Period.

8. It's not instant. A dodged it after it was shot. and was never hit by it. He had to hit Sasuke covered in Amaterasu just to get his arm caught.

@odinsonnn: Wait, so, what leads you to believe that the Naruto team is going to win, exactly?

This is a good group of shinobi, and would prove difficult for many. But in no way can these four take on and beat the Rouges, this is a stomp. As many have mentioned already, Captain Boomerang is a non factor.

He used his version of Tsukuyomi against Danzo. Danzo even commented how weak his version is in comparison with Itachis who could alter your perception of time within the illusion.

@ratava said:

@darkraiden said:

@odinsonnn said:

@darkraiden:

. Sasuke has never shown tsukuyomi, only amaterasu and kagatsuchi.

He used his version of Tsukuyomi against Danzo. Danzo even commented how weak his version is in comparison with Itachis who could alter your perception of time within the illusion.

That just says he used an illusion and that it sucked compared to Tsuykomi. That's it.

Lol at the naruto fan boys flashes rogues stomp

Mirror Master with prep should solo this imo.