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#1 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash Allen / Flash Wally / Zoom

vs

Stardust / Runner / Silver Surfer

In Character, Death, BFR, or KO

Begin.

#2 Posted by ChaoticSuperman (325 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 should win, but DC added in the Speed Force Hax so Team 1 wins.

#3 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (22877 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1.

#4 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaoticSuperman: Does Speed Force overide Galactus Comsic Power?

#5 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3215 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2, because of the Runner.

#6 Posted by XImpossibruX (5152 posts) - - Show Bio

@King-Stranglehold da first said:

Team 2, because of the Runner.

Why?

#7 Posted by semaeuldel (6 posts) - - Show Bio

Stardust is a speedster?

@CadenceV2 said:

@ChaoticSuperman: Does Speed Force overide Galactus Comsic Power?

Iron Man was able to overcome Terrax who also had Galactus' cosmic power. People need to stop overrating Heralds. Stardust is made of pure energy so they won't be able to hurt her. I don't know if they can speed steal from energy. They'd rail Surfer and RUnner though.

#8 Posted by Z3RO180 (6250 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: is it a race or a fight?

#9 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Well Since Runner and such get no love....

Runner beats Thanos. Runner easy FTL. Runner beats Surfer in Speed and Strength. Runner is Immortal. Is that weak now n day to Flash?

#10 Posted by ImTheAmazingSpiderman (61 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 wins here.

#11 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

Runner can't die and never has been KO'd before. People are just picking DC because of popularity. I'm a Flash and Zoom fan and tbh the Runner is a goofy looking character but he's above their power level. Like I said HE CAN'T DIE! No matter what you hit him with, hell Galactus ate him and he couldn't even digest him. He's SS on steroids and has the power to affect the emotions of other characters, basically they feel good in his presence even if they were betrayed by him or enemies of him. No one has an answer for that. Not to mention he PSI blasts an absolute speed. He can traverse galaxies in seconds.

#12 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Z3RO180 said:

@CadenceV2: is it a race or a fight?

Fight ofcourse

#13 Posted by Kratesis (4266 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not sure if the marvel team can deal with the speed steal.

I mean they can stay away, but eventually they have to get close and fight.

#14 Posted by AssertingValor (5377 posts) - - Show Bio

Runner can travel multiple times light

#15 Posted by ChaoticSuperman (325 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@ChaoticSuperman: Does Speed Force overide Galactus Comsic Power?

Yes DC made Flash a stupid character

#16 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (7088 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: Current Allen? Also is this bloodlust because every one assumes this for some reason?

#17 Posted by BigCimmerian (7845 posts) - - Show Bio

Runner could solo.

#18 Posted by semaeuldel (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian said:

Runner could solo.

Maybe when he has comparable feats.

#19 Posted by Milokill (50 posts) - - Show Bio

What universe does this happen in? If its Mavel then team 2 wins since theres no speed force.

#20 Posted by BigCimmerian (7845 posts) - - Show Bio

@semaeuldel said:

@BigCimmerian said:

Runner could solo.

Maybe when he has comparable feats.

I have never read anything with Runner in, but according to his page on comic vine and wikipedia he is immortal, has power cosmic, can run many times faster than light, has energy powers, strength which is greater than Silver Surfer and so on, I think this is enough, people on the vine should stop turning Flash into some cosmic entity.

#21 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mr_Ingenuity: Edited it. All current i guess.

#22 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@semaeuldel: LOL What!!!

#23 Posted by beatboks1 (6953 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lone_Wolf_and_Cub said:

Runner can't die and never has been KO'd before.

@CadenceV2 said:

In Character, Death, BFR, or KO

Just because he never has been doesn't mean he cant. and it's not limited to death or KO. No one on team marvel will be able to lay a hand on Zoom, so can't win. Since either flash can also speed steal and leave all on team marvel completely stationery I'd say that's a pretty effective BFR.

@LordMaverick said:

Runner can travel multiple times light

Which is meaningless against two enemies who can steal his speed and add it to their own and one who is simply always in a different times flow relativity. However fast anyone goes Zoom is always faster because their time moves different compared to his.

#24 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Yet Flash loses to the Rogues. WTH? Not to down him but really how does he have such BS powers but gets Tagged and looses to them? Makes no sense at all.

#25 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Also Stardust flight, Lack of Morals , Black Holes to Cosmic Hell, and Manipulation of all forms of energy mean nothing?

That and Silver Surfer Molecule Manipulation, Transmutation, Flight, Cosmic Blasts, and Power Nullifying (Hulk was depowered via Surfer) means nothing!

#26 Posted by beatboks1 (6953 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: How is loosing to villains with more power an issue. Courtesy of the intenisty both Cap Cold and weather wizard can achieve such extremes in cold temperatures that movement is impossible. Heatwave's heat gun can overcome Cold's cold field. Mirror master is as close as you get to a reality warper without magic. What makes no sense is anyone other than someone with Flash's immense power defeating them.

#27 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Flash should move faster than Cap Cold thinking of activating the Field, Faster than Fire movement from a Fire Gun, Faster than Weather Wizard Wind Speed. Its all BS. Mirror Master Ill grant ya but the rest is BS as Flash moves faster than the energy of said powers or devices they use and can think of using.

#28 Posted by korrinadzero9 (1 posts) - - Show Bio

I can already tell CadenceV2 has never touched a Flash comic in his life.

#29 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

SS and the Runner can traverse galaxies in seconds when you compare that with what the Flash and Zoom do on earth their speed isn't as impressive. Pretty sure Runner is millions of years old I doubt anything that Flash and Zoom throw at him will phase him. He can't die so no matter what they do they can't win. Death herself forbids him due to his machinations against her. Not to mention that SS can time travel, strength augmentation, cosmic awareness, astral plane, matter manipulation, create and survive black holes, energy absorption and projection to name a few. So I'll just agree to disagree. Marvel team wins.

#30 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@korrinadzero9: Enough Scans from Nickthedevil tell me more than I like. Unfortanatly the lack of Votes for team 2 is baffling. Yet in another Thread of Flash and Silver Surfer vs Runner the Majority belive Runner wins.

So its pretty strange.

#31 Posted by beatboks1 (6953 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@korrinadzero9: Enough Scans from Nickthedevil tell me more than I like. Unfortanatly the lack of Votes for team 2 is baffling. Yet in another Thread of Flash and Silver Surfer vs Runner the Majority belive Runner wins.

So its pretty strange.

That thread didn't have Zoom. Zoom could solo so many more characters than almost any other comic character. He could Solo Superman, every Flash, WW and a few more to boot. Whatever speed anyone goes Zoom is always faster. Flash looks like he's moving in slow motion to Zoom almost all the time. Flash had to borrow the speed of two other members of the Flash family to even be able to see Zoom moving.

@CadenceV2 said:

@beatboks1: Flash should move faster than Cap Cold thinking of activating the Field, Faster than Fire movement from a Fire Gun, Faster than Weather Wizard Wind Speed. Its all BS. Mirror Master Ill grant ya but the rest is BS as Flash moves faster than the energy of said powers or devices they use and can think of using.

No character with super speed other than Zoom (who isn't a speedster just in a different time line) is always moving at speed. Starting from stop every character has to build up speed. Otherwise Superman, WW, Flash, etc etc would never loose. That's why Zoom shouldn't loose unless to omnipotence.

#32 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@korrinadzero9: Enough Scans from Nickthedevil tell me more than I like. Unfortanatly the lack of Votes for team 2 is baffling. Yet in another Thread of Flash and Silver Surfer vs Runner the Majority belive Runner wins.

So its pretty strange.

That thread didn't have Zoom. Zoom could solo so many more characters than almost any other comic character. He could Solo Superman, every Flash, WW and a few more to boot. Whatever speed anyone goes Zoom is always faster. Flash looks like he's moving in slow motion to Zoom almost all the time. Flash had to borrow the speed of two other members of the Flash family to even be able to see Zoom moving.

@CadenceV2 said:

@beatboks1: Flash should move faster than Cap Cold thinking of activating the Field, Faster than Fire movement from a Fire Gun, Faster than Weather Wizard Wind Speed. Its all BS. Mirror Master Ill grant ya but the rest is BS as Flash moves faster than the energy of said powers or devices they use and can think of using.

No character with super speed other than Zoom (who isn't a speedster just in a different time line) is always moving at speed. Starting from stop every character has to build up speed. Otherwise Superman, WW, Flash, etc etc would never loose. That's why Zoom shouldn't loose unless to omnipotence.

Okay Zoom makes more sense. its the Flashes Solo thats confusing me as hell.

You say Zoom is the winner. After that I buy that. But Flashes should be well match and no way Solo.

#33 Posted by imbackwimps (1064 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@korrinadzero9: Enough Scans from Nickthedevil tell me more than I like. Unfortanatly the lack of Votes for team 2 is baffling. Yet in another Thread of Flash and Silver Surfer vs Runner the Majority belive Runner wins.

So its pretty strange.

That thread didn't have Zoom. Zoom could solo so many more characters than almost any other comic character. He could Solo Superman, every Flash, WW and a few more to boot. Whatever speed anyone goes Zoom is always faster. Flash looks like he's moving in slow motion to Zoom almost all the time. Flash had to borrow the speed of two other members of the Flash family to even be able to see Zoom moving.

@CadenceV2 said:

@beatboks1: Flash should move faster than Cap Cold thinking of activating the Field, Faster than Fire movement from a Fire Gun, Faster than Weather Wizard Wind Speed. Its all BS. Mirror Master Ill grant ya but the rest is BS as Flash moves faster than the energy of said powers or devices they use and can think of using.

No character with super speed other than Zoom (who isn't a speedster just in a different time line) is always moving at speed. Starting from stop every character has to build up speed. Otherwise Superman, WW, Flash, etc etc would never loose. That's why Zoom shouldn't loose unless to omnipotence.

if thats true then what zoom does to flash runner would do to zoom runner is omnipotence.

#34 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordMaverick said:

Runner can travel multiple times light

So can everyone on Team 1.

#35 Posted by beatboks1 (6953 posts) - - Show Bio

@imbackwimps said:

If thats true then what zoom does to flash runner would do to zoom runner is omnipotence.

No he's not.

#36 Posted by imbackwimps (1064 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@imbackwimps said:

If thats true then what zoom does to flash runner would do to zoom runner is omnipotence.

No he's not.

yes he is read up on him just dont say no and dont know nothing about runner

The Power Primordial: The Runner's body has been imbued with a portion of the Power Primordial, which is residual energy left over from the Big Bang that created the current Marvel Universe. This energy manifests itself as cosmic energy that the Runner has spent countless eons channeling for certain purposes, such as granting himself superhuman attributes at various levels. The Runner has essentially trained himself over billions of years to channel this energy to grant himself the powers he's wanted and at what level he wants them. This makes the Power Primordial similar to the cosmic energy utilized by the Eternals, only to a much greater degree.

  • Superhuman Strength: The Runner has channeled a portion of the Power Primordial to grant him superhuman strength. At his peak, the Runner is sufficiently strong to lift roughly 10 tons.
  • Superhuman Speed: As his name implies, the Runner has devoted much of the Power Primordial to build up his speed. He can run, move, and think at incredible velocities. The upper limit of his speed isn't known and, while within the atmosphere of a planet that supports life or can support life, the Runner restrains himself to speeds well below his maximum. However, he has been known to run tens of thousands of miles per hour while on a planet with ease.
    • Flight: The Runner is also capable of propelling himself through the air or outer space under his own power. Although he is technically flying while doing this, he actually appears as though he's running. The Runner is capable of flying at speeds many times the Speed of Light, which is roughly 186,000 miles per second. He is arguably the fastest being in the Marvel Universe.
  • Superhuman Stamina: The Runner has also devoted a great deal of the Power Primordial to increase the efficiency of his musculature, which is infinitely superior to the musculature of a human being. The Runner's muscles produce no fatigue toxins during physical activity, granting him limitless superhuman stamina in all physical activities.
  • Superhuman Durability: The Runner's body is composed of a flexible metallic alloy that renders him practically invulnerable to conventional physical injury. He can withstand powerful impact forces, exposure to extreme heat and pressures, powerful impact forces, and can survive indefinitely within the depths of space without being injured. His body is also specifically designed to withstand the rigors and damage that moving at such extreme velocities could cause to the tissue of most other beings.
  • True Immortality: While many beings have claimed to be immortal, the Runner is one of the few beings that truly is immortal. As a result of the Elders of the Universe being banned from entering Death's realm by Death itself, The Runner is incapable of dying. While it is possible for him to be injured or rendered unconscious, his body can literally heal him from any type of injury, no matter how severe or how long it might take. Even without Death's edict of banishment, the Power Primordial has made the Runner completely immune to the effects of aging and all known diseases. He also requires no food, water or air as the Power Primordial energies are all that's necessary to sustain him.
  • Superhuman Agility: The Runner has channeled the Power Primordial to enhance his agility, balance, and bodily coordination to levels beyond the natural physical limits of the finest human athlete.
  • Superhuman Reflexes: The Runner's reflexes have been enhanced even further, enabling him to react almost instantaneously.
  • Energy Blasts: The Runner has also channeled the Power Primordial for the purposes of firing powerful blasts of concussive force from his hands. It isn't known if he can use these energy blasts for other purposes, such as generating intense heat, light or to rearrange matter on a molecular level. These blasts have proven powerful enough to harm the Silver Surfer in the past.

Psionics: The Runner has demonstrated a psionic ability to stimulate the pleasure centers in the brains of beings around them, essentially causing them to feel good or to feel at ease. The exact nature and full limits of this power aren't known, nor is it known if the Runner can consciously control it.

Abilities

Although the Runner doesn't particularly enjoy combat, he has proven himself to be a formidable combatant. The sheer speeds at which he can propel himself simply make him too fast for most other beings to even attack him.

Strength level

Unknown

Weaknesses

Prior to Death's banishment, the Runner's obsession with freedom and essentially seeing and experiencing all that there is was responsible for his immortality. Should Death's banishment ever be lifted, and the Runner becomes bored with his life, it could potentially be fatal to him. Also without Death's banishment, it is possible for the Runner to sustain physical injury that the Power Primordial can't heal, resulting in his death.

#37 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 mainly because of Zoom.

#38 Posted by beatboks1 (6953 posts) - - Show Bio

@imbackwimps: I've read 27 of Runners appearances not just a wiki, and he is NOT omnipotent. Do you even know what omnipotence is??. He does not have power over everything. He is not the be all end all of power in the MU. That would be TOAA. Only beings like TOAA, or the Presence can be called omnipotent. I don't class nigh omnipotence (which is what Living Tribunal, Spectre, Pre retcon Beyonder, Shuma Gorath in own dimension and others have) as omnipotence. Runner is not in the league of any of these. If you have proof in scans that he is greater than all these and on a par with TOAA please put it up or pull your head in. None of the information you posted is anything new and none of it is even close to omnipotent (which means all powerful). If he were Galan would not have been able to consume him. He was spared only because Death denies any of the Elders. Hardly all powerful now is it.

#39 Posted by Saren (25225 posts) - - Show Bio

Runner beat Thanos because he had the Space Gem at the time and that made him pretty much untaggable, which pretty much anyone who's read Thanos Quest would know, but.....

Moderator
#40 Edited by imbackwimps (1064 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@imbackwimps: I've read 27 of Runners appearances not just a wiki, and he is NOT omnipotent. Do you even know what omnipotence is??. He does not have power over everything. He is not the be all end all of power in the MU. That would be TOAA. Only beings like TOAA, or the Presence can be called omnipotent. I don't class nigh omnipotence (which is what Living Tribunal, Spectre, Pre retcon Beyonder, Shuma Gorath in own dimension and others have) as omnipotence. Runner is not in the league of any of these. If you have proof in scans that he is greater than all these and on a par with TOAA please put it up or pull your head in. None of the information you posted is anything new and none of it is even close to omnipotent (which means all powerful). If he were Galan would not have been able to consume him. He was spared only because Death denies any of the Elders. Hardly all powerful now is it.

ok ill give you that but you are very wrong about someone being omnipotent to be the only one to beat zoom a elder would be able to do the job easy runner has speed plus a host of other powers that zoom will have to deal with and you cant tell me that he can.flashes and zooms fanboys like to say speed kills all the time well runner has that and a hell of alot more(face it flash and zoom has meant there match in the runner)

#41 Posted by beatboks1 (6953 posts) - - Show Bio

@imbackwimps said:

ok ill give you that but you are very wrong about someone being omnipotent to be the only one to beat zoom a elder would be able to do the job easy runner has speed plus a host of other powers that zoom will have to deal with and you cant tell me that he can.flashes and zooms fanboys like to say speed kills all the time well runner has that and a hell of alot more(face it flash and zoom has meant there match in the runner)

Zoom isn't about speed. He isn't fast in the strict sense of the word. Time for him moves different than it does for anyone else. It doesn't matter how fast someone else is to Zoom they are always going slow because his relative rate of time is different. The only way someone without omnipotence could beat Zoom would be to have complete control over time (even then it would have to be very adept)

#42 Posted by AssertingValor (5377 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant: under they're own power? last i knew Flash could not unless he stole speed, but i don't see how he could steel Marvel team's speed since they don't have the speed force, and Zoom doesn't truly run light speeds...

#43 Edited by Billy Batson (57705 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordMaverick said:

@jeanroygrant: under they're own power? last i knew Flash could not unless he stole speed, but i don't see how he could steel Marvel team's speed since they don't have the speed force, and Zoom doesn't truly run light speeds...

For the last time, you don't have to be connected to the speed force to get your speed stolen, been shown in the comics so damn often.
Yeah, infinite speed is above light speed :)
BB

#44 Posted by hemporionshinryu (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian said:

Runner could solo.

Yeah the same Runner that couldn't even beat Makkari in a race

Wally, Barry or Zoom would leave him eating their dust. DC Speedsters slaughter the Marvel speedsters. And Stardust isn't even a speedster

#45 Posted by sandiego008 (3283 posts) - - Show Bio

@hemporionshinryu: You do realize what happened to Makkari after he won that race right?

#46 Posted by Empiorumfacemask (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandiego008 said:

@hemporionshinryu: You do realize what happened to Makkari after he won that race right?

You mean that absolute speed crap? Irrelevant, Makkari still proved he's faster than Runner. Runner is quickly becoming the most overrated character

#47 Posted by nickthedevil (11408 posts) - - Show Bio

@Empiorumfacemask said:

@sandiego008 said:

@hemporionshinryu: You do realize what happened to Makkari after he won that race right?

You mean that absolute speed crap? Irrelevant, Makkari still proved he's faster than Runner. Runner is quickly becoming the most overrated character

I like you. May I keep you?

#48 Posted by sandiego008 (3283 posts) - - Show Bio

@Empiorumfacemask: The point is that he had to reach a speed where time does not exist (aka time stands still) for him to beat Runner.

You are missing the point which is obvious as this argument is continuing to come up. Makarri had to go into a speed where there is no time to beat runner. It doesn't mean he is faster ... it means he went to such a high speed when runner wasn't expecting it at the end of the race and thus makarri won. Please stop using this as an argument against runner as it is incorrect.

Might as well keep bringing up batman > JLA crap if this is what you want to use for an argument here.

#49 Posted by nickthedevil (11408 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandiego008 said:

@Empiorumfacemask: The point is that he had to reach a speed where time does not exist (aka time stands still) for him to beat Runner.

You are missing the point which is obvious as this argument is continuing to come up. Makarri had to go into a speed where there is no time to beat runner. It doesn't mean he is faster ... it means he went to such a high speed when runner wasn't expecting it at the end of the race and thus makarri won. Please stop using this as an argument against runner as it is incorrect.

Might as well keep bringing up batman > JLA crap if this is what you want to use for an argument here.

If he had to reach such a speed... shouldn't Zoom, in theory, be faster anyway?

#50 Posted by nickthedevil (11408 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordMaverick said:

@jeanroygrant: under they're own power? last i knew Flash could not unless he stole speed, but i don't see how he could steel Marvel team's speed since they don't have the speed force, and Zoom doesn't truly run light speeds...

What gave you that absurd idea?