Flash Blood Lusted vs Superboy Prime

Nope it's just some of the people on here are unreasonable defenders of Prime's unsubstantiated and ridiculous power level. I had a conversation with @slimj87d on this very topic and we both speculated that it was a reasonable conclusion to put Prime's power level only on a Sun Dipped Superman's power level at the very most. There's nothing else to place Prime on a much higher level than this other than fan wanking the reality punch and somehow playing this universal destructive feat out of proportion and confusing Prime's ordinary feats for his Superman Prime (amped by a Guardian) feats. A lot of that's going on here. There's also the blatant fact that Prime has a phobia of Flashes. Bart beat the snot out of him on his own, Prime was BFRed by all the Flashes in Infinite Crisis and honestly the feats Wally has shown enable him to beat Prime without CIS.

All of that has literally been said and yet they still argue (with the same crap, I might add).

@darkbiscuit: I noticed whilst scrolling through the thread. It is bemusing how people cling to Prime being many times stronger than an ordinary Kryptonian without substantial evidence backing that up.

@laflux: They don't mention Superman-2 because it was made clear that only Prime was changing reality and he didn't need him to punch his way out of the phantom zone which had the same effect or the speed force (though that didn't change anything.)And when he had help from Superman, he wasn't at full power. Also after he was amped he was still punching throw to different realities. So we know of at least 4 times he was able to punch through to different realities and only one of which he was added.

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Please, if SBP Prime has universe durability, why was he defeated by the Teen Titans, and Sodam Yat able to fight him for an extended period of time despite being posioned? How do two Supermen have the ability to push him back against his will via flight? Fine Flash doesn't phase through him- he pulverizes him with enough force to destroy Anti-Monitor's armor, when the rest of top Tier DC Superhumans where having trouble denting it.

At the end of the day Prime has nothing to show that he's more than a few times more powerful than a regular Superman tops. Alot of the top end feats posted by him tend to be overstated.

So, this is why Superman-2 is not mentioned. I don't know of anytime that Regular Superman was jumping realities outside of SA Superman and even then I don't know if he was changing it with his punching powers. What was overstated about his realities punching? Yes, the Universal feat was him as Superman Prime and should have no bearing on this fight, but it's not over stated. How is him Killing on over 3 dozen GLs, Stomping Most of the JL, Killing Superman 2, who was on even strength with Normal Superman, Trashing the Yellow Lanterns and at times doing it at the same time over stated (which I'm guess you mean to say over exaggerated) He actually did those things.
Also, Barry Allen already hit Prime Full force while he was one with the Speed force and all it did was give prime a bloddy nose and piss him off.

So, What about Prime is over stated?

@sophia89: @captnmcdeadpool: Prime is fast enough to keep up with them. He counter Blitzed Wally, Bart and Barry and put them down until They dumped him into the speed force which kills two of them. Also, sense he's blood lusted, why wouldn't he just destroy the planet which he has done tones of times before or throw it into the sun which he is more than capable of.

You say this and yet, the other side of the coin seems to be true with you.
The Internet has a massive hatred of Prime. For whatever reason, most often that he was "a PIS machine". Also, the idea that you and another viner agreed on an opinion between the two of you makes it no more fact than the result of any of the actual debate on this site.

However, Using just Primes feats as a boy, one would say he is more powerful than Sun Dipped in the over all things he was able to do. Also as you say other blow his universal destructive feat out of proportion, so do other people with the idea of "Flash Phobia." That term was used once in a disrespectful manner by kid flash. He's pretty much making fun oh him yet everyone runs with it like he's actually got a phobia of speedsters.

And why is it even not worthy that he got BFR by not one but three Flashes and one of them died in the process. He desperate where they at that point. Oh and didn't Prime Trash Barry, Bart and Wally in that fight? And right before that,there were like 3 other random people that helped pull Prime into the speed force. So lets not blow that out of Propoation. It took a lot to put Prime there and he kill several of the people trying to do it. But for the record I'm going to post a few scans to back it up. Instead of what it's mostly going on here, which is all talk.

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So, the Flash Phobia is really a load of bull. Beat the snot out him? No, died trying to stop him, Yes.

Oh, and Flash Fears Prime

All in all, I don't see where you're basing you're opinion on. Superboy Prime Took on the All of the JLA including Superman/Girl and Powergirl and MM and Both Flashes at the time all while in a depowered state. But this only puts him at Sundiped level???

All in all, it seems you are just as bias against him as the people you claim are bias for him.

@bossmonster: It took Superman, Supergirl and Power Girl, 3 Kryptonians to overpower Prime eventually. That's still not on the level of heroes that Prime faced in Sinestro Corps War. Funny that you talk about bias when your case practically reeks of it.

@lvenger: What are you talking about. You are literally saying exactly what I said to you, minus the scans. So what point are you trying to make?

SBP runs like a sissy, or gets BFR'd again, or gets his brain phased out of his skull/atomized. Take your pick. Flash should run him over, especially with his Flashphobia.

It's walter.

Well, at least Wally has actually used his powers to speed shift someone's brain before, though he never used it in that manner, so it's at least some what arguable, though I personally agree with you on this one.

Joke thread. Flashes have beaten speedfeatless Prime at least thrice to the point where Bart Allen saying "boo!" makes prime run for his life

whats this nonsense about flashes not being able to hurt prime?

even ignoring speedsteal, bart allen alone beat him bloody in infinite crisis and beat him again(or rather made him flee after the beating) in legion of 3 worlds

@thegrayghost: Scans?
As I have already personally posted scans of Prime putting all the Flashes down and when I get home, I will find the other scan of him countering a double Blitz from Barry and Bart while he was depower and only had the speed from his armor and again counter blizted much of the JL.

So, I do not undersand this idea that he's getting beat as he's reacted to all the Flashes before and given his hatred of them, he's likely pop the planet in a Blood lusted state.

Nope.

why not? what defense does he have to BFR? Something already took him out of commission for months? Barry can still phase his brain out. He's still scared of flashes. SBP definitely loses here.

@dratini1331: As I said before and posted the scans to back up, All the Flashes are just as Scared of Prime if not more so, than he is of them

Also, while Barry was containing the entire speed force, he all he did was bust primes lip with a punch. Speed force Dumping him killed off one Flash, BFRed another and he punched his way right back. Barry was just as screw over as Prime was and they came back within seconds of one another.

I also posted scans of him Blitzing The Flashes.

So, what defense does Flash have against him Blowing the whole planet up like he has done before when he wasn't Blood lusted or his reality punches, which I have also posted scans of him doing with out the aid of the Gardian amp or Superman-2

I disagree with posters claiming prime is just as powerful as a sun-dipped Superman. SBP in Infinite Crisis was fighting 2 Supermen, Power Girl, Martian Manhunter and a whole bunch of GL's at the same time. His power levels are way beyond Sundipped Superman. SBP was moving planets like they were nothing and shifted the center of entire universe. Prime has always been a universal threat. In Sienstro Corps war, he was again throwing DC heavy hitters like Superman like a rag doll and it took a guardian commit a suicide just to BFR him. If prime can get over his flash phobia, he will win the fight. Otherwise, Flash wins by scaring prime into running away from him.

The Flashes aren't scared of Superboy-Prime, they're afraid of the collateral damage that can be caused.

The Flashes are more afraid of their own power and what can happen if they cut loose than they are or Superboy-Prime

When Superboy-Prime supposedly blitzed the Flashes, they were obviously holding back and trying to figure out how to contain him with little collateral damage as possible.

Things that people forget to factor in are that heroes are constantly trying to protect and defend. Villains without morals like Superboy-Prime don't those factors against them.

Could you imagine having a gunfight against someone trying to kill you while in a hospital and your a cop? That's how it is for a superhero worrying about collateral damage and holding back, specially one with the powers like Flash.

It is quite evident if not blatantly obvious the Flashes are faster than Prime is, specially when Barry Allen was revived and was easily able to dodge and make a joke of Prime's speed and his heat vision.

@from_beyond: Yet he couldn't resist the push of 2 Supermen after flying a few light years with them. Granted he did punch them a few times and gave them bloody noses, you would think if he was stronger than a sundipped Superman he would be able to easily push them back or break free but he was incapable for a few lightyears of travel at FTL.

Flash MURDERSTOMPS.

Even Bart was humiliating him only in his Kid Flash-form.

@slimj87d:

Yet he couldn't resist the push of 2 Supermen after flying a few light years with them. Granted he did punch them a few times and gave them bloody noses, you would think if he was stronger than a sundipped Superman he would be able to easily push them back or break free but he was incapable for a few lightyears of travel at FTL.

He didn't even seem to try to resist them. He was just laughing at them the whole way and telling them they can't hurt him. Kind of like Superman doesn't try to evade bullets lots of times, not because he can't, it's because he knows they can't hurt him.

So punching and trying to break free from their grasp wasn't any form of resistance whatsoever?

Ok.

So, how does this factor into what you just said.
Though he's wearing his armor, this is still a depowered Prime and he is smiling while he deals with a Barry and a faster Bart (Though it may be the other way around) and still manages to Blitz them and other heros.

Are you saying they were holding back here too? Because well all know that they later strip his armor and gang beat him until he over powers him when his powers return.

So why are we down playing a blitz from Prime but playing up a blitz to BRF that not only took three Flashes but also BFR 1, killed another and left the weakest as the new Flash?
If Prime fears anything, it's that The Flash family has one of the only working answer for him, BFR because of the speed force, but we know this can't hold him.

@bossmonster: I smile when I take a painful dump, it doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

With full time work and grad school, I don't have time to redebate a topic that has been discussed 100s of times before this discussion started. Heck, this topic has been made already. Everything you have said and typed has probably already been brought up if you want to google it.

To quickly address the topic at hand, the census and conclusion for a bloodlusted Wally West vs Superboy-Prime were:

1. Wally West is much faster than Prime is. Prime has never speed blitzed the likes of Superman or even Superboy. Wally West has been shown to be magnitudes above Jay Garrick in speed emptying out a whole city of people at FTL. Black Adam and Superman battle wise are around Jay Garrick's speed.

2. Prime has not shown any resistance to getting his speed stolen. Seeing that Wally and taken and lent speed to organic living beings such as amazo, superman, other speedsters, etc and plain objects such as wood, etc. There's more evidence that supports he could steal Prime's speed and he has no resistance to it.

3. Wally could phase his hands into Prime's brain and squish it seeing that Bart Allen's cousin was easily able to phase through Prime.

What can Prime do against a bloodlusted Wally West?

If this is Barry Allen in New-52 then he losses.

@slimj87d: Barry case phase through things though so he can do what Wally can and phase through Prime or send him to the speed force.

To everyone else, debating Superboy-Prime with Superboy-Prime fanboys is a waste of time. Why should you bother discussing or debating anything with them when they sitting their ready to:

1. Use and possibly exaggerate any Superboy-Prime feats that fit their argument .

2. Deny any showings of Prime that doesn't fit their argument.

Superboy-Prime was getting blood punched out of his mouth by Superboy when he was first introduced. Superboy-Prime couldn't one shot Superman yet people claim he's magnitudes stronger than him. Superboy-Prime was defeated by the Teen Titans.

Now watch and wait what this post does to them.

I know.

SBP fanboys are almost as bad as Hulk-Fanboys.

I mean, they even say that SBP is more powerful than Galactus.

What the hell should I say to that?

SBP is a whiny, overrated bitch, who has absolutely nothing on Flash.

I'm not going response to all the other post as one down here will do.

IF this will Wally, and the OP didn't saying, my response would be different and even I would say, Prime would likely lose. However, even Wally has no defense against Prime out right blowing the planet up which he would do.

However, Prime has shown enough feats to give him the win over every other Flash those feats lead me to say that he might react to Wally. If he can Wally would die just like the rest of them.

Flash stomps

@bossmonster:

The only way Prime can blow the planet up is by flying threw it. His heat vision only dried up a lake when him and Ion were going at it, and that was a combination of both their heat visions.

Starting distances were not given, so it's assumed they are rather close. Prime does not have the distance to get away from Wally. Wally is much MUCH faster than him, again Wally moved to a point where even Wonder Woman was frozen in time, someone that keeps up with Superman.

Prime is more durable and more stronger than the Superman family and their equals. He has NEVER been shown to be faster than them, and even if he did outperform them in speed that I might be forgetting about, he has NEVER outperformed them in the magnitude of speed Wally has. Wally puts Wonder Woman and Superman frozen in time.

So Prime can't blow up the planet, not before Wally comes straight up and tickles his brain with a phased finger through his head. And again, a speedster of lower caliber than Wally has phased through him so he has no phase resistance.

Lastly, Prime has no resistance to getting his speed stolen, he doesn't. Wally can steal all his speed and momentum and leave him frozen in time. By stealing his speed, the speed difference and gap between the two would increase magnitudes above what it is already. The faster Wally gets, the more durable he becomes allowing him to deliver a more devastating punch due to F = ma.

What are the arguments for Prime winning besides blowing up a planet? Because that's not going to happen here.

Only Man-Prime blew up a planet IIRC.Even if somehow prime blew up the planet,Wally has ran in space with no problems so it wouldn't benefit Prime either way.Bart was able to bloody up Prime's face. Let's see what happens when Wally IMP'S his face into the ground(after he speed steals him a nanosecond later as soon as the battle starts (; .

The Flash Stomps with absolute ease, steal primes' speed and then rips his heart of using his intangibility.

@slimj87d: What? You're still here? What happened to work, school, blah blah ect ect.

Flash.

But whoever thought Flash can kill WPotC is giving me depression.

@bossmonster:

"My point is simple, The Flash (Wally, Barry or othewise) Isn't Blood Lusted."

Are you kidding me right now? I stopped reading your response right there and lost all patience with you. Look at the OP topic.

Flash Blood Lusted vs Superboy Prime

Be gone.

@slimj87d: Weirdo,get bent. With this, I'm smile when I take a dump retardedness.

I mess read the OP. It changes nothing of the actually fact. You stopped reading the post because you have no actual answers.

From a guy that's like, I have school and full time work and can't be bothered, yet runs back to every reply.

If you don't get that lying bull crap out of here.

Blood lusted wally would win. I already admited this.

Every other Flash Loses. They don't have the power or means to stop him solo. End of story.

Hmph. Superboy Prime obliterates any Flash.

@thundergodswrath: Can I ask how?

I just don't see how he puts Prime down.

@thundergodswrath: Wally can steal his speed

Exactly.

Furthermore, he is inconsistent as hell. I put Prime below KC Superman. Every time Prime has gone up against a powerhouse, he gets visibly hurt (KC Superman was punched by Hercules with Golden Fleece and he didn't even flinch). Prime was not even that powerful in his Teen Titans comeback and Crisis on Infinite Earths.

I also think Kal-L in his prime could beat SBP - Kal-L in his prime stalemated the SA Superman in a fight.

People need to differentiate between Superboy Prime and Superman Prime.

Kids these days, no respect.

How about you drop the attitude and stop insulting people for no reason?

As strong as SBP is, a bloodlusted Flash (Wally) should take this rather easily. There are simply too many things Wally could do to SBP before he even has a chance to react.

@bossmonster:

You do realize that Flash normal and a bloodlusted Flash are two different thigns right? SBP should be able to beat Flash on some occasions but bloodlusted? Hell no.

@uberhikari

Second, durability has nothing to do with how close or far apart your molecules are, it has to do with, wait for it, how durable your molecules are. Saying that Superboy Prime has the same molecules as everybody else is like saying Silver Surfer is just a regular guy, lol. His molecules aren't the same as everybody elses, he's more durable. That's literally what it means to be durable.

Flash doesn't attack your molecules directly. It accelerated the molecules to the point where they explode by themsleves. You can comapre that to Mr. Incredible not being able to break through Syndromes robot although the robot was able to destroy itself.

And another thing that happens is the rearrangement of your molecules. Though they are durable they can still be rearranged. Thats like teleporting and not coming back.

@bossmonster:

Scans?

And then there's Infinite Crisis Speedforce dump...

As I have already personally posted scans of Prime putting all the Flashes down and when I get home, I will find the other scan of him countering a double Blitz from Barry and Bart while he was depower and only had the speed from his armor and again counter blizted much of the JL.

Barry?Barry returned in Final Crisis...

Are you talking about Sinestro Corps War?

Do you think that showing is even remotely consistent with how Prime at full power couldnt react to Flashes but could at half power?

Or the fact that Prime at half power crushed MMH's skull( Jonn of course conveniently forgot his telepathy) when in Infinite Crisis at full power Jonn sent him flying with one punch?

Or how later in the issue Superman and other class 100s were completely pounding him down before the sun rose? Do you think Superman is faster than Flash?

So, I do not undersand this idea that he's getting beat as he's reacted to all the Flashes before and given his hatred of them, he's likely pop the planet in a Blood lusted state.

Yes sure....if he could react to them

Or resist a speedsteal

Or timetravel

Or his brain haemorrhaging

Or the broken planet being lent speed to attack and kill him

Or a million IMPs before he could blink

Or phasing

Or basically ANY consistent display of 13 trillion times FTL speed as opposed to yknow getting beaten up by Flashes every time

@thegrayghost: So, honestly, this is the second time this week were someone nearly had me like "WTF. I guess I was wrong." However, you leaving out very keep element of your scan. And that's the fact that each of those Flashes where amped. Bart was one with the Speed Force at the time that he hit Prime and as I showed before Prime was still able to keep pace with him when he was depowered. Kid Flash even admits to being amped by the speed force just pages after the scans you posted. More over, Prime wasn't getting hurt by Kid Flash. He was hitting him and punching him, but unlike Bart, who was more hurt, he didn't hurt him.

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So, for this fight, those scans just aren't valid because normally, Kid Flash and Bart are not that Fast and do not hit that hard. Prime while he was weak showed the power to push through supermans durability with his heat vision. You're naming all these ways that they can beat prime but he only needs make contact with them in any way he scan and they die. I saw the phasing scan,but again, she was amped. If need too, I will post that scan two, but she says so up above.
So, like I said before, Wally would win the fight, especially now that I see Prime is not Blood lusted and which ever flash it is will be. Bart, Kid Flash, ect, will not. They aren't fast enough, even amped, Kid Flash couldn't hurt Prime and Prime didn't run away from Kid Flash, he was afraid to battle another Speedster, but he still fought. They are not fast enough to do the things you're talking about without amps and even with them, as you have shown, it's not enough to put him down. He, on the other hand, only really needs to hit them once and game over.

@wardemon32:

No, I thought prime was blood lusted. It was a misread on my part. I already admitted that if this was Wally Prime would lose.

The others are not strong enough to do it. I posted scans above that show they were all amped and still couldn't really hurt prime. Even phasing through him didn't put him down (Though, I do know that he was phased, for all that was shown, she could have just hit him from behind, it wasn't really a clear scan, but if it was phasing, it was pretty weak.)

@frozen: Who are you talking to. Don't get the dumb idea that you have any say what so every about what I will and won't do. The very ide that you felt like you could a crazy.

That's totally the main problem on this thread. Prime is utterly inconsistently portrayed, he got beaten down by less powerful beings like the Legion and the Titans, even Connor drew blood from him at one point. I wouldn't say Kal-L could convincingly beat Prime since the Silver Age fight had a load of stipulations behind it and Silver Age Superman is vastly superior to both Kal-L and Pre Flashpoint Superman. If Kal-L was on SA Superman's level, Pre Flashpoint Superman wouldn't have been able to fight him as long as he did.

Nonetheless, people really do need to distinguish between Superboy and Superman Prime since he isn't nearly as powerful as he's made out to be.

Flash

Prime is incosistent - powerhouses can hurt him, and the Titans or any of the heroes in Infinite Crisis never expected his attack either.

Kal-L was at one point, on SA levels - towards the end of the GA, he was at SA levels and actually fought the SA Superman. However, he was considerably weaker in Infinite Crisis (only slightly stronger than pre-52 Superman) and I think that was because COIE took alot out of him and he was generally getting very old (he was about 90). IIRC, he fought the SA Superman in the 1960s and stalemated him. Kal-L's power-levels varied, at his weakest he could only run faster than a speeding bullet but at his strongest he was equal to SA Superman (I can try and find the issue where he stalemated SA Superman). But he was stronger than SA Supergirl and equal to SA Superman.

@bossmonster said:

Only the highlighted parts are ok for you to say in this thread. The rest of it is off-topic. Keep it to yourself.

@frozen: I believe that Kal-L does not retain the same power as he did just like Superboy-Prime doesn't retain the same power he used to.

Superboy-Prime was actually stronger than SA Superman as when they met, and SA Superman was stuck in Superboy-Prime's universe, SA Superman commented on how strong Superboy-Prime was and how he seemed to be a bit stronger than he was even as a teen from my memory.

Of course after COIE wide retcon, everything and everyone's power levels had change, it's only the existence and history of a few people that didn't change. Power Girl is actually a PERFECT example of someone that was at a different power set and was changed afterwards. Lets not forget that Power Girl is actually not from the Universe she was residing in but rather she was from Kal-L's universe but had somehow retained her existence (in reality authors just wanted to keep those large attractive big breast around in comics :D). Power Girl's strength and durability was set to the same level as Supergirl and Superman. The same is shown and proven with Kal-L as he seemed to perform at the same level as Kal-El.

So much like Kal-El is the reincarnation of Silver Age Superman, and since Superboy-Prime was hinted to be a bit stronger than SA Superman, that proportional gap probably remains.

If Superboy-Prime was 3X stronger than SA Superman, after COIE he should still be 3X stronger than Kal-El.

@lvenger, how do you feel about this?

@vance_astro:

Are you going to be bias and only address me or are you going to actually take into account that I was responding to things said in the thread prior? I just want to know what type of mod I'm dealing with.
Does it actually matter that the things I addressed in my comment where just that, things addressed from previous comments or what?