" Could his hammer prevent transmutation too him?or the odin force "
I doubt it. I still think Firestorm could pull it off. Odin Force is just in upgrade in power. It doesn't mean he has a defense against being transmuted.
@CATMANEXE said:
"transmuted the Nega Bands and Genis...good enough.
" Could his hammer prevent transmutation too him?or the odin force "
I doubt it. I still think Firestorm could pull it off. Odin Force is just in upgrade in power. It doesn't mean he has a defense against being transmuted.
@CATMANEXE said:
"transmuted the Nega Bands and Genis...good enough.
That's good enough for me, too. "
yeah. i thought about the OF too and Thors mystical abilities tough call. though Surfer really doesnt show to be incapable of much, in fact its been stated on panel that the cosmic power allows him to do anything, which kinda makes sense.
@Stormultt said:
" hi catman ^^ "
hi. not sure i remember by name, but im pretty sure your Am?
regular Thor wins because he's backed by Odin's Hammer, it can black or deflect Firestorm's attacks. Nothing gets past Thor's hammer, he even takes on guys on the level of Heralds. In fact he's even scored some wins over Surfer and Surfer is many times stronger than Firestorm.
Firestorm has control over the molecular structure of matter, but after a few displays of strength, power and molecular manipulation he doesn't have much else in the bag, very mortal. Thor has lots in the bag, lots of magic and lots of durability. Once Thor's hammer lands he's gonna KO Firestrom, the next hammer blow after that will kill Firestorm
"Regular Thor wins because he's backed by Odin's Hammer, it can black or deflect Firestorm's attacks. Nothing gets past Thor's hammer, he even takes on guys on the level of Heralds. In fact he's even scored some wins over Surfer and Surfer is many times stronger than Firestorm.Firestorm has control over the molecular structure of matter, but after a few displays of strength, power and molecular manipulation he doesn't have much else in the bag, very mortal. Thor has lots in the bag, lots of magic and lots of durability. Once Thor's hammer lands he's gonna KO Firestrom, the next hammer blow after that will kill Firestorm "
Thor's body doesn't have a defense against transmutation. Even with superhuman durability, it could happen. Just because Thor has beaten the Surfer doesn't mean that he'll beat Firestorm, and being a mortal has nothing to do with anything. While Thor could be able to knock him out (which isn't gonna be easy, but because he took a blow from Kalibak and still kept fighting), Firestorm could dodge, or make himself intangible, causing Thor's attacks to fly right through him.
As for blocking or deflecting Firestorm's ranged attacks, keep in mind that Firestorm doesn't have to shoot a target to transmute it. He could just focus on it, and turn it into something else. A group of thugs fired bullets at him once, and he transmuted the bullets into a gas just by looking at them. He did the same with someone's machine gun, turning it into peanut butter. If Firestorm can transmute things just by looking at them, there's nothing Thor can block or deflect.
" . A group of thugs fired bullets at him once, and he transmuted the bullets into a gas just by looking at them. He did the same with someone's machine gun, turning it into peanut butter. "
A gun is not Thor's hammer
@Static Shock said:
"
Firestorm could dodge, or make himself intangible, causing Thor's attacks to fly right through him. "
Dodge him maybe, but make himself intangible no, it's Thor's hammer not a Viking with a club or Superman with a big stick. Thor has cut through dimensions and even stopped time with Mjolnir
Actually I don't think Firestorm will dodge Thor, I think Thor will speed blitz him
There are two separate entities here, one is a powerful Asgardian Thunder God and the second is the most powerful weapon ever made. Thor's Hammer is the strongest force in the Marvel Universe, it is backed up by some very powerful magic. It would take the Omega Effect and bounce it back hitting it out of the park like a home run, that's what kind of power you're talking about. Take away the molecular power and Firestorm is just a man, take away the most powerful weapon in the universe (HammerTime) and Thor is still a fighting God
You misunderstood what I said. I never said that Firestorm could transmute the hammer, but he can transmute Thor by looking at him
@BIackFlash said:
" Dodge him maybe, but make himself intangible no, it's Thor's hammer not a Viking with a club or Superman with a big stick. Thor has cut through dimensions and even stopped time with Mjolnir
That doesn't mean that he's gonna hit a being that can go intangible. Meaning that the hammer will not inflict damage if he can't be touched. Swinging at an intangible being is like swinging at the air.
@BIackFlash said:
"Actually I don't think Firestorm will dodge Thor, I think Thor will speed blitz him.
Firestorm has superhuman reflexes. Speed blitzing him isn't going to be that simple, especially if he's flying.
@BIackFlash said:
"There are two separate entities here, one is a powerful Asgardian Thunder God and the second is the most powerful weapon ever made. Thor's Hammer is the strongest force in the Marvel Universe, it is backed up by some very powerful magic. It would take the Omega Effect and bounce it back hitting it out of the park like a home run, that's what kind of power you're atlking about. Take away the molecular power and Firestorm is just a man, take away the most powerful weapon in the universe (HammerTime) and Thor is still a fighting God "
I don't understand what this post means, but whatever. Thor can be a God, but he's not abstract God. He can still bleed. He can still be hurt. Even though he can live for a long time, he can still be killed.
That doesn't mean that he's gonna hit a being that can go intangible. Meaning that the hammer will not inflict damage if he can't be touched. Swinging at an intangible being is like swinging at the air.
"
Maybe you misunderstood me, Thor's hammer gives him the ability to hit beings which are intangible or people who even hide in other realities. The weapon is the most powerful weapon going, it allows him to cross space, time whatever...Firestorm is powerful, he can dish it out, but he can't take it and that means he is pretty easy pickings compared to some of the guys Thor put down I'm not sure transmuting Thor is easy since he's a magical god, has Firestorm ever transmuted someone on the level of Superman before he got blitzed?
@Static Shock said:
" Firestorm has superhuman reflexes. Speed blitzing him isn't going to be that simple, especially if he's flying. "
Nowhere near the level of Superman, Thor is faster than Firestorm
@Static Shock said:
" I don't understand what this post means, but whatever. Thor can be a God, but he's not abstract God. He can still bleed. He can still be hurt. Even though he can live for a long time, he can still be killed. "
Thor has the most powerful offensive weapon going, even if you do something PIS and teleport the hammer way Thor doesn't go down easy. He's a God, so he's going to take one superman sized blow after another and another, he can be killed but it will take a whole lot more than what Firestorm can dish out Firestorm is mortal, the first blow Thor lands can almost kill him, the second blow Firestorm is dead
"Maybe you misunderstood me, Thor's hammer gives him the ability to hit beings which are intangible or people who even hide in other realities.
Who has he hit that was intangible? Hiding in another reality isn't the same thing.
@BIackFlash said:
"I'm not sure transmuting Thor is easy since he's a magical god, has Firestorm ever transmuted someone on the level of Superman before he got blitzed?
Being a magical God doesn't mean his molecules cannot be rearranged, due to the fact that he's not an abstract God. As for transmuting someone on Superman's level, it could happen. Jason is able to transmute inorganic and organic materials. Thor is organic. Even if he's not really a human, he's still biological.
@BIackFlash said:
"Nowhere near the level of Superman, Thor is faster than Firestorm.
Maybe in terms of moving from point A to point B. Reaction speed is a different story.
@BIackFlash said:
"Thor has the most powerful offensive weapon going, even if you do something PIS and teleport the hammer way Thor doesn't go down easy. He's a God, so he's going to take one superman sized blow after another and another, he can be killed but it will take a whole lot more than what Firestorm can dish out Firestorm is mortal, the first blow Thor lands can almost kill him, the second blow Firestorm is dead "
The hammer is powerful, but it's not the most powerful. It's been destroyed before. Anyway, Thor may be able to take a lot of damage, but why would Firestorm need to throw punches at him when he transmute his body by looking at him? To avoid being hit by the hammer, he can go intangible or simply dodge. People slower than Thor have dodge him and his attacks before. I don't see why Firestorm can't do it.
" We take for granted that a God's molecular structure is not something you can mess around win. "
Says Who ? "
Iono. But you always see an argument like you can't transmute him, he's a god, and it makes sense to me. Gods probably have some morfogenetic field and stuff like that as part of their divinity.
" We take for granted that a God's molecular structure is not something you can mess around win. "
Says Who ? "
Iono. But you always see an argument like you can't transmute him, he's a god, and it makes sense to me. Gods probably have some morfogenetic field and stuff like that as part of their divinity. "
" We take for granted that a God's molecular structure is not something you can mess around win. "
Says Who ? "
iono. But you always see an argument like you can't transmute him, he's a god, and it makes sense to me. Gods probably have some morfogenetic field and stuff like that as part of their divinity. "
But Gods have been hurt by various attacks before in the past too... just because Thor holds the title of God... doesnt mean he is The God aka TOAA or The Presence... Thor is quite a few notches below many of the Cosmic and Magical beings in the Marvel Omniverse... so I think its possible he could be transmuted... now I dont know if Firestorm could do it... but it would be interesting to see him try
" But Gods have been hurt by various attacks before in the past too... just because Thor holds the title of God... doesnt mean he is The God aka TOAA or The Presence... Thor is quite a few notches below many of the Cosmic and Magical beings in the Marvel Omniverse... so I think its possible he could be transmuted... now I dont know if Firestorm could do it... but it would be interesting to see him try "
This my own sentiment and in no way a serious argument. I have no proof for God transmutation thingy.
But yeah, anything above gods can f@#k with them anyway they see fit : ) I was talking about human level transmutators.
" But Gods have been hurt by various attacks before in the past too... just because Thor holds the title of God... doesnt mean he is The God aka TOAA or The Presence... Thor is quite a few notches below many of the Cosmic and Magical beings in the Marvel Omniverse... so I think its possible he could be transmuted... now I dont know if Firestorm could do it... but it would be interesting to see him try "
This my own sentiment and in no way a serious argument. I have no proof for God transmutation thingy.But yeah, anything above gods can f@#k with them anyway they see fit : ) I was talking about human level transmutators. "
Gods like Thor. If Thor could transmute Firestorm (which I doubt, due to his control of his own molecular structure), it comes down to who does it first. I'm thinking Firestorm, because it's his main method of attack. Thor doesn't use that type of attack as much as Firestorm does.
Gods like Thor. If Thor could transmute Firestorm (which I doubt, due to his control of his own molecular structure), it comes down to who does it first. I'm thinking Firestorm, because it's his main method of attack. Thor doesn't use that type of attack as much as Firestorm does. "
I don't think Thor has to worry about it.He's so powerful at this point.Has so much in his arsenal.Thor hits Firestorm with a godblast we never see him again.
" I don't think Thor has to worry about it.He's so powerful at this point.Has so much in his arsenal.Thor hits Firestorm with a godblast we never see him again. "
In the time it takes the use that, Thor would be turned into roast chicken, sitting on a silver platter.
" I don't think Thor has to worry about it.He's so powerful at this point.Has so much in his arsenal.Thor hits Firestorm with a godblast we never see him again. "
In the time it takes the use that, Thor would be turned into roast chicken, sitting on a silver platter. "
I doubt that.Thor's regular level blast will rip Firestorm apart.
TRANSMUTATION OF ELEMENTS: Thor transmuted the Absorbing Man's wood and iron body to helium (a gas). See Journey Into Mystery #115. Emphatically, in this issue, Thor explicitly said that, "I have the power to transmute the Elements themselves".
" TRANSMUTATION OF ELEMENTS: Thor transmuted the Absorbing Man's wood and iron body to helium (a gas). See Journey Into Mystery #115. Emphatically, in this issue, Thor explicitly said that, "I have the power to transmute the Elements themselves"
There's a difference between being able to transmute something and having a defense against it. I'm not saying that Firestorm has a defense against that (that's what I think, but I have no proof of the matter), but Firestorm has shown to be able to transmute things just by looking at them. He could do it faster than Thor can lift his hammer to do same thing.
" There's a difference between being able to transmute something and having a defense against it. I'm not saying that Firestorm has a defense against that (that's what I think, but I have no proof of the matter), but Firestorm has shown to be able to transmute things just by looking at them. He could do it faster than Thor can lift his hammer to do same thing. "
His hammer has also been shown to be a defense in and of itself. Capable of absorbing all types of energies and powers. I think something earlier was mentioned about intangibility as well. Which is something Thor has been able to do and negate (might of been a different thread than this one). That's the thing with his Hammer, it is kind of like his trump card and it gains powers as it seems needed. Then for us to never see that type of power again.
I don't know enough about Firestorm to make a claim one way or another, but I just don't see him transmuting a being like Thor with any ease. Do we have any examples of people he has done this to? How powerful those beings are compared to Thor etc.
"His hammer has also been shown to be a defense in and of itself. Capable of absorbing all types of energies and powers.
But, it's not shown to defend on him against transmutation, though...
@Andferne said:
" Do we have any examples of people he has done this to? How powerful those beings are compared to Thor etc. "
He has transmuted a human before, or killed him using that method. He only does it as a last resort. The level of power of the person he transmutes means nothing, nor does it hinder his ability to transmute organics.
Can be neglected by his Hammer just like he did against Vision.
@Static Shock said:
" But, it's not shown to defend on him against transmutation, though... "
It has defended him against magically, mystical, comics and all other sorts of powers. Only time I can remember that Thor fell to some type of transmutation was when Loki turned him into a Frog.
@Static Shock said:
" He has transmuted a human before, or killed him using that method. He only does it as a last resort. The level of power of the person he transmutes means nothing, nor does it hinder his ability to transmute organics. "
I don't know, I think there would be a difference in doing that to a human and a God.
"It has defended him against magically, mystical, comics and all other sorts of powers. Only time I can remember that Thor fell to some type of transmutation was when Loki turned him into a Frog.
Other powers except transmutation, as you've stated.
@Andferne said:
"I don't know, I think there would be a difference in doing that to a human and a God. "
I doubt it. Thor is a God, but not an abstract God. He can still bleed, be hurt, and be killed. He's still flesh and bone, like a human is. For instance, I doubt think Firestorm can transmute beings like the Spectre or Living Tribunal. Or say, for instance, those with the Power Cosmic. To me, Thor isn't that much different from Superman (despite the title of a God). But, the latter has survived matter manipulation and reality manipulation also. I can't say the same for Thor unless I see it. Sure, the hammer does give him defenses to a lot of things, but there's a difference between having a defense to a lot of things and having a defense to everything.
Log in to comment