Firebending Battle: Royals vs Non-royals

Firebending Royals:

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Ozai, Iroh, Azula, Zuko, Iroh II

• Azula is sane
• Zuko is post-dragons. No swords

Firebending Non-royals:

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Jeong Jeong, Combustion Man, P'li, Mako, Wan

• Wan can only use firebending. No Avatar State
• Jeong Jeong is willing to fight (he's not completely morals off but he's will attack as well as defend)

These two teams have been together a week learning each other's skills and how to work together. They are in character, both in terms of their fighting style and their teamwork (Jeong Jeong is the only slight exception, see above). They don't know why they have been called together except that they are preparing for a fight

Half an hour before the fight begins the teams learn the names and see pictures of their opponents. They have any in character knowledge, but that's it. They can use this time to form a strategy.

The fight takes place in Ba Sing Se at noon. No Sozin's Comet. Starting distance is 30 feet. No bystanders are around. Victory by ko or death

Which team will win?

@arcus: In TLOK have they been able to block lightning with fire or other lightning?

Nope

Combustion Man could arguably solo.

team 1

team 1 have better feats and would probably do better at working together. they win

I'd say the Firebending royals.

@tohoma: @hyperlight: @nighthunder: any reasons? The royals don't exactly have a great history of working together, and the non-royals have some good feats too

@arcus: Yeah but the royals are more skilled and have better strategists than the non-roylas. Also the IC knowledge that Zuko provides for Combustion man will also take away the crucial element of surprise for him and once they see that P'li is the same they will easily modify there strategy for her.

Non-royals are hardly lacking in skill, and they have some unique skills the royals don't. Strategy might favor the royals, but Combustion Man showed some good strategy, he tracked down Aang three times and three times almost killed him. Zuko could tell the royals about combustion bending, but that's not going to lessen Combustion Man's power

• I believe that after a well prolonged battle, Team Non-Royals take it.

Combustion Man's abilities do the work of about four to five firebenders and P'li is arguably in that same extent of power. What makes her lethal is the fact that she can curve her explosive beams and fire in multiple directions. So if Team Royal went for a separate/distractive strategy, she could definitely tag them. With that weeks worth of training, Combustion Man could probably train P'Li in making more of an impact with her version of combustion bending. Jeong Jeong just seems like the icing on the cake for establishing a greater work ethic with bending and team management.

But Team Royal isn't without their own forms of winning. Azula's blue fire seems to have the same destructive nature as combustion bending but the only difference is that she can increase the area of effect instead and shape. She's also a good strategist. Her only downfall is her arrogance and belittlement of her uncle Iroh.

Team Royal would appear to have a bigger issue with following orders than team Non Royal, which would probably cost them the match. So it might turn out as such:

• Team Royal - 4/10
• Team Non Royal - 6/10

All firebending can have concussive force, but that doesn't make it the same as combustion bending in terms of power. Nice points otherwise

This is a pretty hard fight to debate. Ozai and Jeong Jeong each have exactly one combat scene without the comet. Though Ozai's only cometless feat is having his lightning thrown back in his face by his son. Jeong Jeong at least showed he can block incoming fire blasts from a large group of firebenders at once.

Team Royalty have a pretty big edge in that every single one of them can generate lightning. Iroh II and Ozai can do it near instantly.

That being said, Mako can also do instant lightning and is fully capable of redirecting it. Aside from him, there's also two combustion benders, one who has massive AoE blasts and one who can curve her blasts for precision shots.

Jeong Jeong and P'li probably have the best feats of blocking incoming fire attacks out of all of these.

In terms of leadership Iroh and Jeong Jeong were both said to be legendary generals of the Fire Nation. Iroh II is also a general but we don't know how skilled he is at it. Though having both Irohs, Firelord Ozai, and Azula on one team probably gives them the edge in strategy.

I think in the end I'll go with team commoners. Jeong Jeong can pretty easily generate a fire wall so massive it would completely block out team royal's view, and the combustion benders could then begin to spam their massively damaging explosive blasts through the wall to bombard the team on the other side.

That'd be my opening strategy, anyway.

@metaljimmor: seems like a reasonable analysis

@arcusbut they are all family so its reasonable to assume a lot of their training is similar. at the very least they would all trust each other to get the job done

@hyperlight: possibly, on the other hand the non-royals don't have issues with each other

Good thoughts and points most of which I agree with, but the end result I believe would be different

The royals teams comes from the Last Airbender series which has shown to be more a sink or swim sort of time resulting in more hardened fighter and better combat bending (that’s my opinion) when speaking with Zuko before the comet, Iroh mentions he might not be able to defeat his brother, this leads to believe that he is on the same level or near to Ozai’s power and vise versa. Iroh has been trained by the dragons and being the highest level white lotus member seen, you also can assume that he is a higher level then Jeong Jeong. With two members of the royals at a higher level than the non-royals highest member (Jeong Jeong) I think they can take it. Plus they are a family and would work alot better together in a large combat. Wan has had little to no fire on fire combat before (if we are using the pictured Wan) and Mako is good at ring fighting but large area non regulated fights he seems to always get beaten. Combustion man and P’li are the major problems but with prior knowledge given by Zuko before the fight means they lose their edge and defences can be planned. Lightning is also a large factor in that only Mako can re-direct (Id assume Jeong Jeong can but that has never been shown)

Royals take this with a long battle

Royals 8/10

@lachydotc:

I'm using Wan after he defeated Vaatu-as experienced as we saw him (not counting seeing him dying)

Team 2 wins

P'Li MVP

@thenewbluebeetle007: why do you think P'li is the mvp?

@arcus: Agility combined with combustion. No firebender has ever blocked combustion IIRC. Combine that with the fact that she can dodge just about anything, she is the MVP.

@thenewbluebeetle007: yeah Zuko blocked it to a degree. I'd hardly say she has enough agility showings to say she can dodge anything

royals should win this. Zuko will know what CM and Pli's weaknesses are, so they can prep how to take them down. On the other hand, the opposing team really has nothing that would give them an advantage, other than knowing that Iroh is probably the most powerful person there.

Iroh II and Zuko can work on taking down the combustion benders (zuko having fought one would help, seeing how he fought CM). Iroh will go after Jeong Jeong, Ozai will most likely go after wan (he is very prideful, so it would make sense that he would go after an avatar). and azula will go for mako.

• iroh vs jeong jeong: iroh should take this. he showed more destructive potential and was a better fighter. Plus being trained by the dragons doesnt hurt.
• ozai vs wan: tough call, but i think the avatar can take this. he was also a good fire bender (also trained by the dragons) and was able to take down several firebenders.
• azula vs mako: honestly, mako wasnt that good in the show. his only real big fight was against amon (being able to shoot of lighting while being bloodbent) and his rematch with ming hua. he never uses lightning that often in the show, and he seems to get outsmarted and lose a lot of fights. I think azula can take this
• Iroh II and Zuko vs combustion benders: Royals should take this. they know their weaknesses and can block their blasts with fire (like in the fight between zuko and CM). Plus with time to prep for this, they can come up with a way to hit their weak points to take them out. thought it is possible that they will be hurt/weakened in the fight, but they should still win.

for the most part, royals win the first rounds, leaving iroh, azula, iroh II and zuko vs wan, so they should win this

royals win, 7-8/10

Royals. Sane Azula, Ozai, and Iroh is what gives them the win.

Z'

@knightofzero: who's fighting P'li?

@arcus zuko and iroh II are fighting pli and CM together

@gxrevolution96: @z___: @justsomerandomkid: why do those people give the royals a win? @knightofzero: ah, I misread. P'li can block their blasts too, more effectively than Zuko was able to block a combustion blast

@lachydotc:

While the royals are all very impressive, there's something to be said for the sheer power of combustion bending. Combustion Man and P'li are both team busters that were only taken down by sheer numbers and a little luck. They may not be conventional masters but I'd say they are just as potentially lethal as Ozai or Iroh. Firebending also doesn't exactly give you the tools to exploit the combustion weakness. And lets not forget that the Avatar Extras tell us that Combustion Man gained a reputation through a series of extremely short and brutal Agni Kai duels before becoming an assassin.

As for Iroh being outright better than Jeong Jeong, that's extremely debatable. The White Lotus was basically a poetry group before they decided to militarize to retake Ba Sing Se. There's no reason to suspect they are ranked by combat ability.

I also don't feel being a family will mean they can work together better. The royal family is extremely fractured between two groups that absolutely hate one another. Honestly I'd say a bunch of strangers are going to work together better.

Also, Mako is a lot better than people give him credit for. He's grown into a very powerful firebender. It's just that in book 3 he mostly went up against Ming Hua, a Red Lotus grandmaster with a unique form of waterbending. Before that was Unalaq who was... Also a Red Lotus grandmaster who is easily one of the most powerful waterbenders in the series. Mako fighting these guys is the equivalent of Zuko fighting Ozai in a one on one.

I'd have to go with the royals here.

@blacklegraph: any reasons?@metaljimmor: nice points

I apologize for the double tag if you've already seen this

by feats, team 1

wow you always make me have to think before i post lol keep it up. I think i would give it to team royals since they actually have 3 people that have military experience and crazy adaptability i.e. iroh, azula and zuko. Team two has that edge is destructive capability, but other than mako non are lighting benders or have been shown to redirect in and 3 people on team royals can. I can see iroh and azula finding away to counter the combustion bending.

@primebonnick: lol thanks. Any thoughts on how they'd counter combustion bending?

Basically this.

Azula and Iroh 2.0 are solid enough in this match to give a tough time to whoever they face. Mako goes down easy against Azula and then she can sneak shot a combustion bender. Iroh II seems a pretty good buffer and can possibly get from one side of the battle to even reverse the Wan/Ozai loss.

@koays: I wouldn't umderestimate Mako, he might go down but it won't be easy. If the combustion benders are together it might be harder to get a sneak shot in if they're watching each other's backs

Team 1 in a hard fight.

Royals for all the reasons stated

Team 2 after a very long run. Two combustion benders in one team is powerful enough man. Mako should be able to handle iroh II, and the combustion benders handle the brothers while jeong jeong can take azula, and wan will take zuko. Some will lose some will win, but my money is on team 2.

@arcus: well it seems it can be dodged pretty easily if your agile which most of the royals are and if enough force is used it can be blocked since earth and air benders have shown this. So they can create walls of fire to counter it.

@primebonnick: Aang's more agile than any of the royals and he didn't have an easy time dodging CM's blasts at all

@arcus: i didn't say it would be easy but azula without her bending was able to outrun and out maneuver aang (still wonder how this was possible, but hey such is plot).

@primebonnick: yeah she was pretty fast, but it also helped that she had Dai Li interfering and that Aang was using relatively small air slices and stuff instead of large airbending attacks

Mako has redirected lightning from the mecha tanks in season 1 if I recall

@arcus: i meant speed wise this guy when he was getting those frozen frogs seems like he can go 60mphs man. Shocked azula could out run that even with the dai li interfering.

@primebonnick: yeah, I guess he has to build up to that speed or something

Combustion Man is too much.