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#101 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio

@jokergeist: >:D Didn't think it was possible did you?

#102 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: Okay then.

After Jean takes out 3/4ths of @jokergeist team and scans their teams minds Jean will be privy to his teams plan of 'port + gas as well as any other strategies his team made and the possible location of the Joker.

Now your team has two fliers and three people, so my first question is how fast can your team fly? Second I don't think you'll be able to airlift three people with only two fliers, without making a second trip. So I'm curious if you're coming through the air or on the ground. Either way as Kakashi has True Sight on and is on lookout it'll be near impossible for them to be taken by surprise.

Third the second your team tries to attack my team, everyone on my team will be alerted thanks to Jean's telepathic link that I established in one of my earlier posts, likewise Dinah and Kakashi will be alerted to Jean's findings in @jokergeist's teams brains.

Jake and Jean can be back with Kakashi and Dinah in a couple minutes and fighting multiple opponents isn't a problem for either one of them.

So let's hear your battleplan and I'll go from there.

#103 Posted by Jokergeist (4910 posts) - - Show Bio
#104 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001:

Now your team has two fliers and three people, so my first question is how fast can your team fly? Second I don't think you'll be able to airlift three people with only two fliers, without making a second trip. So I'm curious if you're coming through the air or on the ground. Either way as Kakashi has True Sight on and is on lookout it'll be near impossible for them to be taken by surprise.

Okay, I think you're confused over something. Maka is flying on Soul, who has the ability to sprout wings while in scythe mode. Medusa is flying on her broomstick. They can each carry one person, so my whole team will be airborne. Also, I'm not worried about you knowing that my team is coming. Maka's soul perception would alert her to any changes in your team's movements. She can sense intent and thoughts of individuals similar to a telepath. So she would know that Kakashi knows that they are coming. As for speed, it hasn't really been measured out. Medusa is quick enough on her broomstick to escape from pursuers and Maka is quick enough to get to the moon in a relative short time. Given that the area between our team is not large, I don't see them taking any time at all.

Third the second your team tries to attack my team, everyone on my team will be alerted thanks to Jean's telepathic link that I established in one of my earlier posts, likewise Dinah and Kakashi will be alerted to Jean's findings in @jokergeist's teams brains.

So how powerful is Jean's connection to her own teammates? For example, if Maka was to say mind rape and control one of your teammates, would Jean Grey feel it, similarly to like a psychic backlash?

Jake and Jean can be back with Kakashi and Dinah in a couple minutes and fighting multiple opponents isn't a problem for either one of them.

So let's hear your battleplan and I'll go from there.

Okay. It's quite simple. Before my team leaves to assault yours, Medusa will psychically recall her Black Clown. Ultear and Medusa will split off from my main group and create barriers for Jean and Punisher. Ultear will destroy the landscape and road heading back to your team, while Medusa sets up Vector Bullets to impede your movements. In addition, Ultear will cause any seedlings and vegetation in the are to grow, additionally impeding your movements. After that they will rejoin my team. Maka will then mentally control Black Canary via soul hack. She will then make Dinah use her Canary cry on Kakashi and engage him.

Maka will then use Resonance Chain on her teammates, greatly increasing their speed and damage output.

http://www.animefullfights.com/2013/05/maka-black-star-kid-vs-mosquito.html#.UcpTC_m1GC0

You can watch the video starting at 7 minutes. That is when Maka and Soul use Chain Resonance on herself and her teammates.

Maka will then come in and perform a soul attack on Kakashi incapacitating him.

#105 Edited by Sovereign91001 (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf

Copy and pasted from my post on page 1

Prep two hours on the battlefield:

My team will move to the forest: Jean will transfer her full knowledge to my entire team about your teams so we're not going in blind. As well as broadcast Kakashi's plan. Next she'll link up and psychically shield my team.

So in order to assault my team psychically you'll have to break Jean's mental shielding on them.

Okay. It's quite simple. Before my team leaves to assault yours, Medusa will psychically recall her Black Clown. Ultear and Medusa will split off from my main group and create barriers for Jean and Punisher. Ultear will destroy the landscape and road heading back to your team, while Medusa sets up Vector Bullets to impede your movements. In addition, Ultear will cause any seedlings and vegetation in the are to grow, additionally impeding your movements.

One of the cool things about the Punisher's motorcycle is it can fly.

So Jake and Jean will fly around your barriers and be back with my team shortly. Meanwhile your team has fruitlessly tried to mentally assault mine and impede them.

Time for the counterattack.

Kakashi and Dinah can both fly: Kakashi due to his Arcane Spells and Dinah can use her Canary Cry to fly.

Kakashi will cast Fly and take to the skies and cast Magic Missile.

The effect of Magic Missile from @floopay

Magic Missile - Has enough force to kill a normal person, or put even a peak human to the ground with their head stammering. They seek out their target, cannot be dodged, and ignore all defenses. No armor, no shield, nothing can protect from these five azure balls of magic

That should be one member down.

Dinah will get into range cut her flight and use a wide angle Canary Cry.

Should knock your team right out the air.

If they're not out Jean and Jake should arrive shortly then and Jake's bike has weapons on it including missiles and lasers.

Jake's bike also has an A.I. so it can fly and fire itself while Jake focuses on shooting your team out of the air.

Meanwhile Jean starts taking your teammates out with her TP.

#106 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001:

My team will move to the forest: Jean will transfer her full knowledge to my entire team about your teams so we're not going in blind. As well as broadcast Kakashi's plan. Next she'll link up and psychically shield my team.

So in order to assault my team psychically you'll have to break Jean's mental shielding on them.

How strong are Jean's psychic shields? Because I doubt her shields can protect from an active mind rape unless she's present. Not even Xavier's shields can protect people to that extent. Some scans would help. Thank you :)

So Jake and Jean will fly around your barriers and be back with my team shortly. Meanwhile your team has fruitlessly tried to mentally assault mine and impede them.

Time for the counterattack.

Kakashi and Dinah can both fly: Kakashi due to his Arcane Spells and Dinah can use her Canary Cry to fly.

Eh, I think your really taking that scan of Dinah flying far beyond what she is capable of. That instance shows her using it to get over a cliff, nothing along the lines of soaring through the sky Banshee style. Also if she's too busy screaming just to fly, she pretty much can't tag my team.

As for Kakashi flying, how fast is his speed when in flight? Because if he is hit with a soul attack he's pretty much incapacitated instantly, given that the attack can even kill an immortal.

It would be easy enough for my team to throw a flash bang into yours and blind them, then attack when they are unable to see.

The videos showcase the versatility of Medusa. While your team may be able to fly, she can just set up Vector Bullets in the air and impede your team's movements in the air. She can even use the Vector Bullets to offensively to blitz your team. Also her Vector Arrows would make mince meat out of Canary and Kakashi.

As for Punisher. His equipment would be useless because Ultear can just age all his stuff into nothing.

Don't forget that Ultear also prepped her possession magic. So I can possess one of your teammates for my own personal use.

Also, there is Tifa Lockhart. Here is a video showcasing her physical prowess. Keep in mind, this is her without any materia to boost her stats.

In this battle her stats are going to be boosted by Chain Resonance, Vector Boosts and Vector Bullets.

Magic Missile - Has enough force to kill a normal person, or put even a peak human to the ground with their head stammering. They seek out their target, cannot be dodged, and ignore all defenses. No armor, no shield, nothing can protect from these five azure balls of magic

As for the Magic Missile spell, while it says it can't be blocked. Ultear can actually absorb magic via her lacrima orb. I'm going ask @floopay about this.

By the time Jean comes back to help, my Black Clown shall be there to aid me as well.

#107 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean's shields for all intents and purposes in this match are impenetrable. She is shielding my team's minds and her mind is shielded by the eyepatch, so in order to pyschically attack them you're going to have to attack her but thanks to the eye patch she can't be attacked. And distance isn't a problem for Jean she's managed to send a telepathic message from the Moon to the Earth before, a few miles isn't going to make any difference.

Eh, I think your really taking that scan of Dinah flying far beyond what she is capable of. That instance shows her using it to get over a cliff, nothing along the lines of soaring through the sky Banshee style. Also if she's too busy screaming just to fly, she pretty much can't tag my team.

She's generating lift; enough to support her it's not a stretch by any means to think she can increase that lift to soar upwards. She has a gun remember? And read what I posted: "Dinah will get into range cut her flight and use a wide angle Canary Cry."

So she won't be screaming and flying.

Kakashi's flight speed is as fast as he can run.

Ultear can't see Punisher to age his equipment, he's under cloak, by the time she does she's already been hit by a laser and she's down. Two of your team members can't fly and your other two are carrying them, so their defensive and offensive option have been limited.

#108 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001:

Jean's shields for all intents and purposes in this match are impenetrable. She is shielding my team's minds and her mind is shielded by the eyepatch, so in order to pyschically attack them you're going to have to attack her but thanks to the eye patch she can't be attacked. And distance isn't a problem for Jean she's managed to send a telepathic message from the Moon to the Earth before, a few miles isn't going to make any difference.

Just because Jean's mind is shielded due to the eye patch, doesn't mean her shields are impenetrable. If multiple people are getting psychically attacked, Jean would have to expend more effort in trying to keep her shields from breaking. Her shields are not infallible.

She's generating lift; enough to support her it's not a stretch by any means to think she can increase that lift to soar upwards. She has a gun remember? And read what I posted: "Dinah will get into range cut her flight and use a wide angle Canary Cry."

It is a stretch because you're assuming she is capable of sustaining enough lift in order to soar through the sky, when it really only shows her using to get over a cliff. Not to mention, there is no showings of her actually being maneuverable or whatnot. Banshee at least has wings on his suit in order to be more aerodynamic. Dinah on the other hand doesn't have anything that would allow her to control her flight or use it in a way you are describing. She would be more like a rocket than a plane.

Medusa would just shoot her out of the sky when she's heading towards her. Also, a flash bang can effectively blind her, preventing her from seeing where she's going. A simple Vector Bullet pointing in the opposite direction can effectively send Dinah ricocheting back into the ground.

Ultear can't see Punisher to age his equipment, he's under cloak, by the time she does she's already been hit by a laser and she's down.

A laser won't be enough to take Ultear down. She has taken hits from Grey and Natsu, both of them are building busters. The videos I posted shows off Ultear's durability and reactionary skills. She was able to still fight despite Grey's attack breaking her bones and tearing her flesh.

Also, my team would already know that Punisher and Jean are returning to aid their comrades due to Maka's soul perception skills.

Two of your team members can't fly and your other two are carrying them, so their defensive and offensive option have been limited.

My flyers aren't going to continuously carry my teammates during the fight. They would just jump off during the fight. Their fall will be broken by Medusa's Vector Bullets. They can unanimously use the vector bullets (called Vector Plates in the scan) as both a defensive and offensive technique. Kakashi and Dinah won't be able to cross in the opposite direction the arrow is pointing, while my teammate (such as Tifa) can use the same arrow to speed blitz forward.

#109 Edited by Sovereign91001 (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf

Just because Jean's mind is shielded due to the eye patch, doesn't mean her shields are impenetrable. If multiple people are getting psychically attacked, Jean would have to expend more effort in trying to keep her shields from breaking. Her shields are not infallible.


The effects of the eyepatch from the O.P:

  • Jarlaxle's Eyepatch - Character is immune to any and all mental assaults, magical, psionic, etc. None of it will effect them. It also allows the wearer to see through illusions, and see invisible opponents.

Immune to any and all mental assaults. It wouldn't matter how many attacks your team launched or how strong they are. In order to get to my team's mind you have to break through Jean's shields, which thanks to the eyepatch is impossible because she is immune to psychic assault. She doesn't even have to expend any effort to do so.

It is a stretch because you're assuming she is capable of sustaining enough lift in order to soar through the sky, when it really only shows her using to get over a cliff. Not to mention, there is no showings of her actually being maneuverable or whatnot. Banshee at least has wings on his suit in order to be more aerodynamic.

I'll say this Banshee's wings and flight have nothing really to do with Dinah's flight (two different characters from two different companies with similar powers) much like the way Dr. Strange and Doctor Fate channel magic is very different and have nothing to do with each other. (two different characters from two different companies with similar powers). Now I'm not going to belabor this point because imo if she can keep herself off the ground it's not a large leap to say she can move through the sky but worst case and she can't fly or soar as you are suggesting (she'd know before attempting to do so) Kakashi cast fly and a shadow clone and the clone carries Dinah. As for a flashbang that is going to be next to impossible to utalize in the air with any kind of accuracy.

A laser won't be enough to take Ultear down. She has taken hits from Grey and Natsu, both of them are building busters. The videos I posted shows off Ultear's durability and reactionary skills. She was able to still fight despite Grey's attack breaking her bones and tearing her flesh.

Now if your character is tanking building busting attacks she's over the durability limit by quite a bit.

Again from the O.P:

  • Base Durability: They have to be at least damaged by assault rifle fire. And I'm not talking them grunting because of mild discomfort, I'm talking at least flesh wounds from assault rifle fire. Realistically, this means nobody who has a durability higher than that of steel.
  • Extended Durability: With equipment, they cannot have a higher durability than that of plated steel. Plated steel dents and multiple assault rifle rounds will penetrate it. It's susceptible to armor piercing rounds, and etc.


Jake's needle laser from that feat above has enough penetration to drill right through a metal knife and since that knife is circa 2099 I'm gonna say at the minimum it's probably steel hard. Ultear is wearing no armor on her head and as the shooter is the Punisher and he's displayed enough accuracy with that weapon to hit a knife blade in mid stab, I'm going to say making a head shot isn't out of his wheelhouse. Now Ultear should go down right then and there but just to cover my bases let's say she didn't (somehow) she's likely confused, stunned and wounded. Now there's no reason why Jake couldn't keep blasting her with the laser until she went down.

Also, my team would already know that Punisher and Jean are returning to aid their comrades due to Maka's soul perception skills.

That dosen't change that Ultear can't see what she's aiming for and as Maka is in the heat of battle and in the air no less I don't think she has the time to stop and tell Ultear where to aim.

My flyers aren't going to continuously carry my teammates during the fight.

Cool. So it's two on two; technically three I suppose That's less variables to keep track off.

#110 Edited by Floopay (7700 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: @omgomgwtfwtf: It can't be blocked, but it can be absorbed. There are items in DnD created for the sole purpose of warding off Magic Missiles. That being said, they can be sent off to anyone. Three to one location, two to another, all five at one person, etc. etc.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#111 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf

Given Floopay's ruling on Magic Missile and I haven't designated a target yet

my earlier post is:

Kakashi will cast Fly and take to the skies and cast Magic Missile.

So I'm going to send two orbs to Maka, Two to Medusa and one to Ultear and I'd like to see how Ultear's magic absorption works if you don't mind.

#112 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001:

The effects of the eyepatch from the O.P:

  • Jarlaxle's Eyepatch - Character is immune to any and all mental assaults, magical, psionic, etc. None of it will effect them. It also allows the wearer to see through illusions, and see invisible opponents.

Immune to any and all mental assaults. It wouldn't matter how many attacks your team launched or how strong they are. In order to get to my team's mind you have to break through Jean's shields, which thanks to the eyepatch is impossible because she is immune to psychic assault. She doesn't even have to expend any effort to do so.

I'm not targeting Jean. I'm target the other people on her team. Just because they are shielded by her, doesn't mean that her invulnerability stems to them. For example, Wolverine has mental implants from numerous people and organizations and still gets affected by telepathy. He has shields implanted from SHIELD, Jean, Xavier, Emma, etc. and even has a natural resistance to it. Yet he still gets affected by it.

It's also a stretch to assume that Jean can simultaneously assault jokergeist's team, while defending her own from psychic intrusion, while being miles away. While you did show a scan of Jean sending out a message from the moon to the Earth, it still doesn't mean she could protect someone from that range.

I'll say this Banshee's wings and flight have nothing really to do with Dinah's flight (two different characters from two different companies with similar powers) much like the way Dr. Strange and Doctor Fate channel magic is very different and have nothing to do with each other. (two different characters from two different companies with similar powers). Now I'm not going to belabor this point because imo if she can keep herself off the ground it's not a large leap to say she can move through the sky but worst case and she can't fly or soar as you are suggesting (she'd know before attempting to do so) Kakashi cast fly and a shadow clone and the clone carries Dinah. As for a flashbang that is going to be next to impossible to utalize in the air with any kind of accuracy.

How is Banshee's flight any different from Dinah's flight? They both use their screams to propel themselves through the air. The only difference is that Banshee's outfit is aerodynamic and has actual feats of flying. You're trying to pass off one instance of Black Canary using her scream to momentarily get up a cliff as indefinite of her being able to fly. Since your now switching to the fly spell by Kakashi, she would now be flying extremely slow since her flight speed is equivalent to her running speed.

As for the flashbang. I don't see why it would be extremely difficult for Ultear to remotely detonate it in the air. She has complete control over the time of inanimate objects. She could effectively replace her orb with a flash bang or even a frag grenade and use flash forward. Keep in mind that the orb she is using is not a weapon, but a communication device, a crystal ball of sorts. So if she replaces that with an actual weapon, like a plastic explosive, landmine, or grenade. She would have a near infinite amount of explosives compressing into a single spot.

Now if your character is tanking building busting attacks she's over the durability limit by quite a bit.

Again from the O.P:

  • Base Durability: They have to be at least damaged by assault rifle fire. And I'm not talking them grunting because of mild discomfort, I'm talking at least flesh wounds from assault rifle fire. Realistically, this means nobody who has a durability higher than that of steel.
  • Extended Durability: With equipment, they cannot have a higher durability than that of plated steel. Plated steel dents and multiple assault rifle rounds will penetrate it. It's susceptible to armor piercing rounds, and etc.


Uh, I don't see how I'm over the durability limit when I explicitly stated that she was hurt by those attacks. She was wounded, but not knocked out. So her durability is not over the limit.

Jake's needle laser from that feat above has enough penetration to drill right through a metal knife and since that knife is circa 2099 I'm gonna say at the minimum it's probably steel hard. Ultear is wearing no armor on her head and as the shooter is the Punisher and he's displayed enough accuracy with that weapon to hit a knife blade in mid stab, I'm going to say making a head shot isn't out of his wheelhouse. Now Ultear should go down right then and there but just to cover my bases let's say she didn't (somehow) she's likely confused, stunned and wounded. Now there's no reason why Jake couldn't keep blasting her with the laser until she went down.

You're assuming that she wouldn't do anything after the first shot. If you watched the videos I posted, then you would know what Ultear is capable of. She has been caught off guard beforehand, but manages to react accordingly. She didn't become the strongest of the Seven Kin of Purgatory by being confused by a sneak attack.

That dosen't change that Ultear can't see what she's aiming for and as Maka is in the heat of battle and in the air no less I don't think she has the time to stop and tell Ultear where to aim.

Ultear doesn't need to aim directly at a target to use her technique. She can effectively use it as a radial attack, affecting whatever she wanted within a certain area. She has done it to stop rocks from reaching her and has used it to bring down an entire building in moments.

Cool. So it's two on two; technically three I suppose That's less variables to keep track off.

Uh, how so? I've been mentioning Vector Bullets countless times throughout my posts. Tifa can use Vector Bullets to continuously stay in the air by using the force generated by the Vectors to push her through the air. Ultear doesn't need to be in the air for her techniques to work, so it's fine if she's on the ground.

#113 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001 said:

@omgomgwtfwtf

Given Floopay's ruling on Magic Missile and I haven't designated a target yet

my earlier post is:

Kakashi will cast Fly and take to the skies and cast Magic Missile.

So I'm going to send two orbs to Maka, Two to Medusa and one to Ultear and I'd like to see how Ultear's magic absorption works if you don't mind.

It was featured in her battle with Zeref on the first page. She uses it to absorb a death wave he released. I would advise you to watch all the videos I posted because they showcase what my characters can do.

Here is Medusa absorbing a magical attack through her vectors.

Maka's Black Blood armor affords her protection against magical attacks as well. Note how Medusa says that Maka is extremely dangerous to witches.

Arachne's web were capable of doing this before to Maka, when she didn't have the Black Blood Dress.

#114 Edited by Sovereign91001 (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf:

I'm not targeting Jean. I'm target the other people on her team. Just because they are shielded by her, doesn't mean that her invulnerability stems to them. For example, Wolverine has mental implants from numerous people and organizations and still gets affected by telepathy. He has shields implanted from SHIELD, Jean, Xavier, Emma, etc. and even has a natural resistance to it. Yet he still gets affected by it.

It's also a stretch to assume that Jean can simultaneously assault jokergeist's team, while defending her own from psychic intrusion, while being miles away. While you did show a scan of Jean sending out a message from the moon to the Earth, it still doesn't mean she could protect someone from that range.

I'm not attacking and defending at the same time; it's not going to take Jean more than a couple of seconds to K.O jokergeist's team. And it's not like she has to expand any effort to defend as she can't be effected. By the time your team gets to mine; Jean and Jake should already be on their way back and seeing as your team has already tried to impede their progress back this really isn't in dispute.

Wolverine has psychic resistance to TP; Jean for this encounter has immunity; I don't know how you don't get the difference.

To use an example: your team is a group of bank robbers; my team is the money the want to take; Jean is a four walled adamantium vault. In order to get the money (my team) you have to go through the vault (Jean)

I feel like I'm going in circles with this point tbh.

Uh, I don't see how I'm over the durability limit when I explicitly stated that she was hurt by those attacks. She was wounded, but not knocked out. So her durability is not over the limit.

You're assuming that she wouldn't do anything after the first shot. If you watched the videos I posted, then you would know what Ultear is capable of. She has been caught off guard beforehand, but manages to react accordingly. She didn't become the strongest of the Seven Kin of Purgatory by being confused by a sneak attack.

Tanking building busting attacks greater than steel durability; especially if you're saying that her unarmored head is going to tank a laser shot capable of cutting through metal. If she was at the durability limit that wouldn't even be a question.

Ultear doesn't need to aim directly at a target to use her technique. She can effectively use it as a radial attack, affecting whatever she wanted within a certain area. She has done it to stop rocks from reaching her and has used it to bring down an entire building in moments.

This sidesteps my point that Maka has to tell her when to fire the effect while she is currently occupied it battle and or K.O'd from Kakashi's Magic Missile; then there's the fact that Punisher is travelling at 800mph; he'd be in and out of her line of sight before she could hit him to begin with.

Uh, how so? I've been mentioning Vector Bullets countless times throughout my posts. Tifa can use Vector Bullets to continuously stay in the air by using the force generated by the Vectors to push her through the air. Ultear doesn't need to be in the air for her techniques to work, so it's fine if she's on the ground

"technically three I suppose."

Tifa, Maka, Medusa.

Since your now switching to the fly spell by Kakashi, she would now be flying extremely slow since her flight speed is equivalent to her running speed

Well it's Kakashi's running speed which is above human; probably in the 40 mph range, plus he has bod flicker to amp his speed so I'm not too worried about speed atm.

The Magic Missile spell should take Maka and Medusa out and Tifa as well since Medusa is keeping her aloft. Barring Ultear's magical absorption and all which I'd still like to see.

#115 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001:

I'm not attacking and defending at the same time; it's not going to take Jean more than a couple of seconds to K.O jokergeist's team. And it's not like she has to expand any effort to defend as she can't be effected. By the time your team gets to mine; Jean and Jake should already be on their way back and seeing as your team has already tried to impede their progress back this really isn't in dispute.

My team is going to be moving right when Jean and Punisher move in to attack jokergeist's team. Also, I really think you're overestimating how quick you will be able to knock out Jokergeist's team. I ask you if you were using psi-bolts to take them out, which you said you were. You have to be relatively close in order to get a psi-bolt off to incapacitate someone. At least close enough to see the person you're using it on.

Wolverine has psychic resistance to TP; Jean for this encounter has immunity; I don't know how you don't get the difference.

To use an example: your team is a group of bank robbers; my team is the money the want to take; Jean is a four walled adamantium vault. In order to get the money (my team) you have to go through the vault (Jean)

I feel like I'm going in circles with this point tbh.

Jean is not the wall. Jean is only building the wall. Her immunity does not stem to the wall she built. So she could be made of adamantium, but the wall she is building is not. My example with Wolverine is that he has had psychic shields implanted by extremely strong telepaths, but they still manage to break or be overcome when directly assaulted by a strong enough source. There is a difference between actively defending your team against psychic attacks (i.e. Jean being physically there to stop my attacks) and having a make-shift defense built into their mind.

Tanking building busting attacks greater than steel durability; especially if you're saying that her unarmored head is going to tank a laser shot capable of cutting through metal. If she was at the durability limit that wouldn't even be a question.

She's not tanking the attacks. She is taking extremely strong hits, gets hurt, but still manages to fight on. The fact that she had broken bones and wounds should show this. Also, you're assuming that the first laser to hit Ultear would be a head shot. All you showed me was him using it to disarm an attacker.

After the first attack hits her, she is going to defend herself with her ice magic. (I already posted feats)

This sidesteps my point that Maka has to tell her when to fire the effect while she is currently occupied it battle and or K.O'd from Kakashi's Magic Missile; then there's the fact that Punisher is travelling at 800mph; he'd be in and out of her line of sight before she could hit him to begin with.

Maka is not telling Ultear where to use her magic. With her soul perception up she will warn her team that the rest of your team is en route back. I already posted feats of their magic resistance and absorbing above.

"technically three I suppose."

Tifa, Maka, Medusa.

Tifa, Maka, Medusa, Soul.

Technically it's four.

Well it's Kakashi's running speed which is above human; probably in the 40 mph range, plus he has bod flicker to amp his speed so I'm not too worried about speed atm.

Dinah's running speed is not that quick. The flying spell cast on her would use her speed, no?

The Magic Missile spell should take Maka and Medusa out and Tifa as well since Medusa is keeping her aloft. Barring Ultear's magical absorption and all which I'd still like to see.

Look at my post above.

#116 Edited by Sovereign91001 (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf

Jean is not the wall. Jean is only building the wall. Her immunity does not stem to the wall she built. So she could be made of adamantium, but the wall she is building is not. My example with Wolverine is that he has had psychic shields implanted by extremely strong telepaths, but they still manage to break or be overcome when directly assaulted by a strong enough source. There is a difference between actively defending your team against psychic attacks (i.e. Jean being physically there to stop my attacks) and having a make-shift defense built into their mind.

My team is linked together; Jean is actively there. The distance of a handful of miles isn't going to make a difference; Jean isn't putting shields in there brains and going off to do whatever. I said she shields them as in actively; not she created shields.

Stamina and multi tasking aren't a problem for her either

Notice that she says that she can sustain the connection between her teammates 'pretty near indefinitely' while she is attacking dozens of aliens at the same time. Take note that the link is a two way street; she's in their head and they're in hers. The only difference here is instead of her amping them, Jean is defending them an effort she doesn't have to expend any effort on because...of the eyepatch.

Now I've shown Jean using her T.P on a distance of nearly a quarter of a million miles (From Earth to the Moon) now if you want to say her fear boosted her powers 20 times (which is frankly ridiculous) her range is still almost 12,000 miles. As I've been saying the handful of miles between my teammates is a non-factor. Even if you wanted to go way overboard and say it was 100 times that still leaves her with a range of almost 2,400 miles.

You have to be relatively close in order to get a psi-bolt off to incapacitate someone. At least close enough to see the person you're using it on.

Have too? Line of sight shouldn't matter at all; I know their there, because of Kakashi; she detects their brain patterns; she uses a psi-bolt or w/e you want to call it to K.O. them.

Staying under the cloak of the bike Jean will scan for brains, at the very edge of the psychic peremiter permitted in the rules she will then do the psychic equivalent of hitting Jokergeist team members with a sledgehammer instantly knocking them out one at a time.

The range limit is 300 feet to attack with telepathy. Now unless you're saying Jean Grey widely regarded as Marvel's number two telepath (after Xavier) can't locate and K.O three people in an otherwise empty village without laying eyes on them, in a few seconds there is really no argument here.

Dinah's running speed is not that quick. The flying spell cast on her would use her speed, no?

I didn't say I was casting it on her: Kakashi cast fly and a shadow clone and the clone carries Dinah.

Now to elaborate my plan from earlier Dinah fires a wide angle Canary Cry while Kakashi is firing the missile; anything caught in that should go down quickly.

Maka's Black Blood armor affords her protection against magical attacks as well. Note how Medusa says that Maka is extremely dangerous to witches.

Oi... Again the effect of Magical Missile with the part bolded and underlined that pertains to Maka:

Has enough force to kill a normal person, or put even a peak human to the ground with their head stammering. They seek out their target, cannot be dodged, and ignore all defenses. No armor, no shield, nothing can protect from these five azure balls of magic.

In other words the spell bypasses Maka's defense she's K.O'd and there goes your soul perception. As for Medusa it seems to me that she's not absorbing that spell so much as attempting to deflect it.

Now if she tried that she'd end up getting blasted. Now if you're gonna say she'll just absorb it/contain it, She has no reason too as she has no knowledge of what the spell does.

Also, you're assuming that the first laser to hit Ultear would be a head shot. All you showed me was him using it to disarm an attacker.

Of course it is; an in character Punisher going for a head shot? What's so difficult to believe there? Especially considering he knows her head is unarmored before pulling the trigger. Lmao, come on man, I know you're not trying to imply that if he had a head shot; he wouldn't take it are you? As for the scan; this is where context comes in, The Punisher disarmed her because he was shaking down her gang and needed information. Not the case here. And if he's capable of hitting a freaking knife blade, I think hitting a head isn't going to be a problem. So she gets hit in the head; if she does and conforms to the durability (which you're saying she does) she goes down hard.

Speaking of knowledge that's the other thing that's been bothering me

Maka is not telling Ultear where to use her magic. With her soul perception up she will warn her team that the rest of your team is en route back.

So if she's not telling her when how does she know when to fire? Or where?

She has no knowledge Jake's motorcycle can fly; hell she doesn't even know he has a motorcycle. So she doesn't know that he's coming in from the air, she has no idea of his top speed and unless Maka can calculate the time from them to her (and I'm going to need to see that she can) she has no knowledge when they'll be there.

By my count:

Maka is down; via magic missile or the Canary Cry

Ultear is down; by headshot

Medusa is down by either the missile or the Canary Cry

And Tifa is down as Medusa is keeping her aloft.

That leaves Soul who was likely caught in the Canary Cry's AOE.

#117 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001:

My team is linked together; Jean is actively there. The distance of a handful of miles isn't going to make a difference; Jean isn't putting shields in there brains and going off to do whatever. I said she shields them as in actively; not she created shields.

Stamina and multi tasking aren't a problem for her either

You just used a scan of a Phoenix-empowered Jean....

Also Jean can't protect your team while she is gone.

Telepathy Limit: Read Below

  • Power Limit: None
  • Maximum Distance: 100 Meters (300 Feet)
  • Maximum People who can be affected simultaneously (Offensively): 1 person. This means you cannot mentally assault teams, but you can mentally assault people one at a time.
  • Maximum People who can be affected simultaneously (Defensively): No limit. If you want to put a powerful telepath on your team to protect your team against other telepaths, you go right ahead.
  • Overall Limit: You can pick a telepath of any power, but they will be limited to these restrictions.

Uh, so basically your team is open to Maka's mental assault while Jean is away. Given that Maka needs only moments to control your teammates or outright turn them into vegetables. I'm more inclined to believe your team would be incapacitated before they even thought of doing anything.

Notice that she says that she can sustain the connection between her teammates 'pretty near indefinitely' while she is attacking dozens of aliens at the same time. Take note that the link is a two way street; she's in their head and they're in hers. The only difference here is instead of her amping them, Jean is defending them an effort she doesn't have to expend any effort on because...of the eyepatch.

Now I've shown Jean using her T.P on a distance of nearly a quarter of a million miles (From Earth to the Moon) now if you want to say her fear boosted her powers 20 times (which is frankly ridiculous) her range is still almost 12,000 miles. As I've been saying the handful of miles between my teammates is a non-factor. Even if you wanted to go way overboard and say it was 100 times that still leaves her with a range of almost 2,400 miles.

You're using a Phoenix-enhanced Jean and trying to pass it off as regular Jean. You specifically said you're using non-Phoenix Jean, which is basically Classic Jean, before her encounter with the Phoenix Force. Anything after that is basically Phoenix-enhanced. I mean the scan you just used clearly has Jean dressed in a Phoenix outfit....

Have too? Line of sight shouldn't matter at all; I know their there, because of Kakashi; she detects their brain patterns; she uses a psi-bolt or w/e you want to call it to K.O. them.

A Psi-Bolt requires a direct line of sight because you're basically throwing a concentrated form of psionic energy into your victim's skull. Other than that, I really don't know how else you're planning to instantly knock them out. Anything else requires actively going into their brains.

Oi... Again the effect of Magical Missile with the part bolded and underlined that pertains to Maka:

Has enough force to kill a normal person, or put even a peak human to the ground with their head stammering. They seek out their target, cannot be dodged, and ignore all defenses. No armor, no shield, nothing can protect from these five azure balls of magic.

In other words the spell bypasses Maka's defense she's K.O'd and there goes your soul perception. As for Medusa it seems to me that she's not absorbing that spell so much as attempting to deflect it.

Uh, I played Dungeon and Dragons when I was younger, so you really don't need to point that out. Magic Missile is one of the most used arcane spells. It auto hits and can take down normal creatures. Floopay already said it can one shot normal people (i.e. Peak Humans), he never said it was insta-kill or insta-knockout anything above that. Inherit spell resistance is still accounted for and you are misinterpreting (at least to my knowledge) what the spell does. It bypasses all defenses, not ignores the creatures inherit resilience, i.e. it will go past a shield and hit the person behind it, if the person is inherently impervious to magic, then it's affect is diminished.

Magic Missile, Improved
Evocation [Force]
Level:Sorcerer/Wizard 2, Red Mage 2, Mystic Warrior 2, Warmage 2
Components:V, S
Casting time:1 standard action
Range:Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target:Up to ten creatures, no two of which can be more than 20 ft. apart
Duration:Instantaneous
Saving Throw:None
Spell Resistance:Yes

Maka's black blood, as it name implies, is actually part of her body, composed of her blood. It activates when Madness is released from her body. So yes, Maka can tank them.

In other words the spell bypasses Maka's defense she's K.O'd and there goes your soul perception. As for Medusa it seems to me that she's not absorbing that spell so much as attempting to deflect it.

Now if she tried that she'd end up getting blasted. Now if you're gonna say she'll just absorb it/contain it, She has no reason too as she has no knowledge of what the spell does.

Why wouldn't Medusa absorb something she has no knowledge of? Is she just going to let a spell she has never seen hit her? She was more than ready to absorb her sister's magic attack, despite not knowing what its effects were.

Of course it is; an in character Punisher going for a head shot? What's so difficult to believe there? Especially considering he knows her head is unarmored before pulling the trigger. Lmao, come on man, I know you're not trying to imply that if he had a head shot; he wouldn't take it are you? As for the scan; this is where context comes in, The Punisher disarmed her because he was shaking down her gang and needed information. Not the case here. And if he's capable of hitting a freaking knife blade, I think hitting a head isn't going to be a problem. So she gets hit in the head; if she does and conforms to the durability (which you're saying she does) she goes down hard.

This isn't mainstream Punisher. This is a future Punisher, which I have no knowledge of. I simply ask for scans to ensure that he is capable of doing such a thing.

Speaking of knowledge that's the other thing that's been bothering me

Maka is not telling Ultear where to use her magic. With her soul perception up she will warn her team that the rest of your team is en route back.

So if she's not telling her when how does she know when to fire? Or where?

She has no knowledge Jake's motorcycle can fly; hell she doesn't even know he has a motorcycle. So she doesn't know that he's coming in from the air, she has no idea of his top speed and unless Maka can calculate the time from them to her (and I'm going to need to see that she can) she has no knowledge when they'll be there.

Maka's soul perception allows her to see everyone as tiny little lights. She can physically see and sense someone soul. Irregardless of whether she can adequately assess how fast someone is moving, she can sense your team approaching. So put into understandable terms, Jake and Jean are like little blips on her radar.

Also, like I keep mentioning. Ultear does not need to see her targets for her magic to work. She can activate it as an area of effect, causing anything within her vicinity to age and fall apart. She used her arc of time to fix the entirety of the airship in mere moments, despite not being able to see every part of the ship. She casually brought down an entire building by just standing there, without the need to acknowledge everything she was targeting.

By my count:

Maka is down; via magic missile or the Canary Cry

Magical Resistance counters it.

Ultear is down; by headshot

Debatable.

Medusa is down by either the missile or the Canary Cry

Neither. She can absorb the magical missile and can outright keep Black Canary from reaching her.

And Tifa is down as Medusa is keeping her aloft.

Tifa could probably one-shot Canary.

That leaves Soul who was likely caught in the Canary Cry's AOE.

Soul is practically unbreakable while in weapon form.

Also, Soul can release sound waves as well. His can create shockwaves and can actually drive people who hear it insane.

Read from right to left.

Keep in mind that his internal piano is much stronger than the sickle keyboard that he was using in the scans. His sound will also be enhanced by a factor of five due to the Boots of Noise.

Here in the following scans the sound released by his internal piano (The Black Piano) is strong enough to encompass an entire castle and the grounds outside of it. The sound being released is even capable of assaulting someone's soul. With the Boots of Noise, the area which his sound can encompass would be extremely large.

Read from right to left.
#118 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio

@jokergeist Where are you in this debate lol? Don't forget you're still a part of it.

#119 Edited by Sovereign91001 (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf:

I just want to address this part of your post. I'll deal with the rest later.

You're using a Phoenix-enhanced Jean and trying to pass it off as regular Jean. You specifically said you're using non-Phoenix Jean, which is basically Classic Jean, before her encounter with the Phoenix Force. Anything after that is basically Phoenix-enhanced. I mean the scan you just used clearly has Jean dressed in a Phoenix outfit....

Actually no. If you knew (or bothered to ask instead of implying that I'm cheating) about Jean or knew the period of the X-men where that scan was taken from (Black Sun btw) you'd know that while Jean was calling herself Phoenix she was not empowered by the force itself. Specifically she used the name to honor her daughter Rachel.

Here's another fun X-Men fact she's worn the green and gold phoenix costume without being empowered by the force either.

Notice the same costume and Jean saying she cant use TK anymore taken from the same era of the missing six months of Claremont's run. (Which btw is when Jean and Psylocke swapped powers Jean got Psyloke's TP and Psylocke got her TK.) That scan came from Uncanny X-Men 381 btw.

There have been three times (two depending on who you ask) Jean was empowered by the Phoenix Force; In the Dark Phoenix Saga, In Morrisons New X-Men and Phoenix: Endsong. And ftr I know I can't use any of the Phoenix scans and I'm not.

But you know kudos on trying to call me out on using an illegal scan.

#120 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf:

I just want to address this part of your post. I'll deal with the rest later.

You're using a Phoenix-enhanced Jean and trying to pass it off as regular Jean. You specifically said you're using non-Phoenix Jean, which is basically Classic Jean, before her encounter with the Phoenix Force. Anything after that is basically Phoenix-enhanced. I mean the scan you just used clearly has Jean dressed in a Phoenix outfit....

Actually no. If you knew (or bothered to ask instead of implying that I'm cheating) about Jean or knew the period of the X-men where that scan was taken from (Black Sun btw) you'd know that while Jean was calling herself Phoenix she was not empowered by the force itself. Specifically she used the name to honor her daughter Rachel.

Here's another fun X-Men fact she's worn the green and gold phoenix costume without being empowered by the force either.

Notice the same costume and Jean saying she cant use TK anymore taken from the same era of the missing six months of Claremont's run. (Which btw is when Jean and Psylocke swapped powers Jean got Psyloke's TP and Psylocke got her TK.) That scan came from Uncanny X-Men 381 btw.

There have been three times (two depending on who you ask) Jean was empowered by the Phoenix Force; In the Dark Phoenix Saga, In Morrisons New X-Men and Phoenix: Endsong. And ftr I know I can't use any of the Phoenix scans and I'm not.

But you know kudos on trying to call me out on using an illegal scan.

Phoenix: Endsong clearly states that Jean and the Force are one in the same. It never left her because it is her. Anything that happened before that is actually a Phoenix-enhanced Jean. While I'm not one to argue semantics. It was pretty much beaten in everyone's face when they read anything with Jean post-Phoenix meeting. Her attitude, attire, and personality are all Phoenix related. Hell, her psionic signature was still a cosmic fire bird even when the force 'supposedly' left her.

#121 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: The Jean I'm using has none of the Phoenix powers: she has no cosmic fire, she has no TK, no cosmic awareness etc.

Endsong was due to Morrison merging the Phoenix with Jean as always having been with her and attempting to jive the continuity together. In an attempt to be closer to the original script before editoral got their hands on it. Cause depending on who you ask Jean wasn't even possessed by the Phoenix in the DPS but it was a piece of the Phoenix mimicking Jeans soul; a retcon that was used so Marvel could bring Jean back to life so she could form X-Force without being responsible for her acts as Dark Phoenix.

Long story short; the Jean I'm using breaks zero rules; has none of the Phoenixes abilities and if you think I'm violating the rules feel free to tag Floopay and try and have her DQ'ed.

#122 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: The Jean I'm using has none of the Phoenix powers: she has no cosmic fire, she has no TK, no cosmic awareness etc.

Endsong was due to Morrison merging the Phoenix with Jean as always having been with her and attempting to jive the continuity together. In an attempt to be closer to the original script before editoral got their hands on it. Cause depending on who you ask Jean wasn't even possessed by the Phoenix in the DPS but it was a piece of the Phoenix mimicking Jeans soul; a retcon that was used so Marvel could bring Jean back to life so she could form X-Force without being responsible for her acts as Dark Phoenix.

Long story short; the Jean I'm using breaks zero rules; has none of the Phoenixes abilities and if you think I'm violating the rules feel free to tag Floopay and try and have her DQ'ed.

I won't lie, the whole Phoenix/ Jean thing is convoluted. Morrison doesn't help the situation either due to his 'screw continuity, I do what I want' attitude. I will take your word on it. There was no point in ever having the Dark Phoenix Saga retconned as a Jean clone while she was healing in a cocoon, given that they just go ahead and give her phoenix-like powers anyway. But whatever go ahead and use those scans, I just wanted to make sure we are on the same page.

#123 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf

Telepathy Limit: Read Below

  • Power Limit: None
  • Maximum Distance: 100 Meters (300 Feet)
  • Maximum People who can be affected simultaneously (Offensively): 1 person. This means you cannot mentally assault teams, but you can mentally assault people one at a time.
  • Maximum People who can be affected simultaneously (Defensively): No limit. If you want to put a powerful telepath on your team to protect your team against other telepaths, you go right ahead.
  • Overall Limit: You can pick a telepath of any power, but they will be limited to these restrictions.

Uh, so basically your team is open to Maka's mental assault while Jean is away. Given that Maka needs only moments to control your teammates or outright turn them into vegetables. I'm more inclined to believe your team would be incapacitated before they even thought of doing anything.

It was my understanding that the distance limit was in effect for attacking, not defense. And I also believe that for the purposes of this tournament Maka's soul abilities were treated as psychic in nature and if that's the case she wouldn't be able to sense my team's souls from 5 miles away. To know they were off attacking Jokergeist's team in the first place... I'd like @floopay to clear this up before I respond further.

#124 Posted by Floopay (7700 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: That it's correct, max distance only supplies offensively.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#125 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Cool, thanks for clearing that up.

@omgomgwtfwtf So there we go, Jean can defend my team from a distance outside the attack range, I've already shown the link is persistent, she can maintain it as long as she needs to and that the link goes two ways.

So moving on: would an in character Punisher 2099 take a head shot if he has it?

Yeah he will.

As for Soul's sonic abilities the madness effect would be negated and Dinah has a couple of showings that eclipse anything seen in those scans, I'm not sure if I can use them though as they might violate the destructive capability rule. I'm fairly confident if they went attack to attack Dinah could overpower Soul.

Kakashi can throw the wrapped Kunai at your team and detonate them and showering them with metal shrapnel, and because of his Sharingan's predictive ability he'd know where your team was moving before they moved there.

#126 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001:

So there we go, Jean can defend my team from a distance outside the attack range, I've already shown the link is persistent, she can maintain it as long as she needs to and that the link goes two ways.

Okay, so my telepathic attacks won't work. You have yet to counter Maka's soul attack i.e. Witch Hunter and Demon Hunter.

So moving on: would an in character Punisher 2099 take a head shot if he has it?

Thank you for the scan.

As for Soul's sonic abilities the madness effect would be negated and Dinah has a couple of showings that eclipse anything seen in those scans, I'm not sure if I can use them though as they might violate the destructive capability rule. I'm fairly confident if they went attack to attack Dinah could overpower Soul.

It's debatable given that my boots of noise enhances my sound by a factor of five. However, I don't think it's necessary to debate this point. The voters can pick who they think is stronger.

Kakashi can throw the wrapped Kunai at your team and detonate them and showering them with metal shrapnel, and because of his Sharingan's predictive ability he'd know where your team was moving before they moved there.

Uh, everything he's wearing will be destroyed via Ultear's arc of time. Why would I give Kakashi his equipment if I have a character that can turn it into dust? Given that I have a couple of minutes before the rest of your team arrive, it's a valid strategy. She could also just flash freeze both of them with her ice magic as well.

As for the Sharingan's predictive ability. It has been mention a handful of times and never seen again. I can name numerous of times where the sharingan failed to read an opponent's movement. Also, if I remember correctly it can read physical movements, but given that most of my teammates are using magical spells, it wouldn't help at all.

#127 Edited by Jokergeist (4910 posts) - - Show Bio

Attention everybody! I have employed mathematics and factual science to determine the conclusive winner here!

Okay, so let's say that:

A = @sovereign91001

B = @omgomgwtfwtf

and C = @jokergeist

Soooo if by the Associative Property of Additon, (A + B) + C = A + (B + C), AND Sovereign is A, OmgOmgWtfWtf is B, and Jokergeist is C, THEN (Sovereign + OmgOmgWtfWtf) + Jokergeist = (OmgOmgWtfWtf + Jokergeist) + Sovereign. And by this algebraic law, if Sovereign is fighting OmgOmgWtfWtf AND me, then that also means that OmgOmgWtfWtf is fighting me AND Sovereign. THEREFORE this is a three-way battle.

---

Now let's get technical here. If Sovereign is A, and "A" is for "Apple," therefore Sovereign is an apple. And by "apple" I'm talking about the Apple Company, created by Steve Jobs. And it's common knowledge that Steve Jobs died, so Apple = Death. It only makes sense to confirm that Sovereign = A = Apple = Death. Death means dead, so Sovereign is dead.

---

Now that Sovereign is dead, let's move on to OmgOmgWtfWtf.

If OmgOmgWtfWtf is B, and "B" is another way to say "bitch," therefore OmgOmgWtfWtf is a female dog. Now this is where it gets tricky.

Female = a woman

Dog = a domesticated canid

Combine the two, and you get "a domesticated woman," otherwise known as a housewife. Housewives are known to be inferior to men, and Jokergeist is a man. In conclusion, OmgOmgWtfWtf is in fact inferior to Jokergeist, and loses in this debate.

---

Finally, let's move on to Jokergeist.

Jokergeist is "C," which is equivalent to the word "sea." And the Earth's Seas make up 70.8% of the entire earth:

This means that this debate is composed of 70.8% Jokergeist, and only 29.2% Sovereign and OmgOmgWtfWtf. This also means that Jokergeist has a 70.8% chance of winning against his opponents, who only have a 29.2% chance of winning. By logic, Jokergeist wins this debate 9.5/10 times, and shall be declared winner as such.

Through hard reason and fact, I have concluded that Jokergeist is the winner.

Sincerely,

#128 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio
#129 Posted by Jokergeist (4910 posts) - - Show Bio
#130 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

vote goes to jokergeist

too much style

#131 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio
#132 Edited by Sovereign91001 (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

@jokergeist: Er r...Thanks I think?

@omgomgwtfwtf

Okay, so my telepathic attacks won't work. You have yet to counter Maka's soul attack i.e. Witch Hunter and Demon Hunter.

It was my understanding Soul attacks were deemed to be the same as telepathic in nature in the PM

Floopay said : They are the same as telepathic attacks. In most comics they function across the astral plane, which is the same plane of existence someone's soul is on.

That being the case Maka's soul attacks wouldn't be anymore effective than her telepathic ones.

So just to recap the battle so far:

After my team attacks Jokergeists team and is headed to regroup with my team your team makes it move, you split Ultear and Medusa off from the main group to attempt to slow my guys down by setting up obstacles to keep my team divided and separated.

Punisher & Jean see this they circumvent it by flying around/over them.

Your team reconnects and heads off (together) to attack Dinah and Kakashi.

Now here's where things fall apart a bit for me, up until this point my team has had the undisputed speed advantage because of Punisher's bike, that being the case, Jean and Jake should not only overtake your team on the way back, but should in fact get the opening attack. As your team went to the trouble of laying roadblocks down. Now unless your team can cross the distance between the road outside the Village and the whole area they attempted to block off and the area where Kakashi and Dinah are faster than my team can (which isn't possible thanks to the speed cap) at best we arrive at around the same time and at worst my team arrives ahead of your team. But let's continue on for a moment.

Your team of 5 arrives and their opening salvo is a mental attack on Kakashi & Dinah, the attack is nullified by Jean's eyepatch.

Kakashi and Dinah counterattack: Kakashi casts Flight on himself and makes a shadow clone and he carries Dinah in:

She uses a wide angle Canary Cry; he casts Magic Missile Designating three targets; your counter is your team absorbs the magic and or has a resistance to it (I think the jury is still out on that one).

Then things start getting a little fuzzy for me so let's move on.

Maka's soul perception allows her to see everyone as tiny little lights. She can physically see and sense someone soul. Irregardless of whether she can adequately assess how fast someone is moving, she can sense your team approaching. So put into understandable terms, Jake and Jean are like little blips on her radar.

Also, like I keep mentioning. Ultear does not need to see her targets for her magic to work. She can activate it as an area of effect, causing anything within her vicinity to age and fall apart. She used her arc of time to fix the entirety of the airship in mere moments, despite not being able to see every part of the ship. She casually brought down an entire building by just standing there, without the need to acknowledge everything she was targeting.

Forgetting for a second what I posted about travel times a second ago; How does Maka's knowledge of my team approaching get transferred to Ultear? As I said earlier she's in battle, been hit with the Magic Missile so it's not like she can tell Ultear 'Hey they're getting closer' From my understanding Ultear was dropped off on the ground and Maka is up in the air.

So does she continuously stand there using her using her ability to flash forward time at empty air until she hits the Punisher and Jean? And why would she do so if she has no knowledge they're under cloak? Maka wouldn't have it either (she just see's their souls) so she couldn't tell her. Wouldn't she be on the lookout for the opponents, unless it's in her character to indiscrimently fire off her time eye? And if so can she do Ice magic at the same time and what are the respective ranges of said attacks?

Edit: And since Maka doesn't know my team is invisible or that they even have the bike or that it can fly, given that she has zero reason to look in the air and indeed based on your teams actions they think Jake and Jean are travelling on the ground why would Ultear even be casting her ability into the air?

#133 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001:

It was my understanding Soul attacks were deemed to be the same as telepathic in nature in the PM

Floopay said : They are the same as telepathic attacks. In most comics they function across the astral plane, which is the same plane of existence someone's soul is on.

That being the case Maka's soul attacks wouldn't be anymore effective than her telepathic ones.

I don't want to sound rude, but have you watched any of the videos I posted?

Maka's Witch Hunter and Demon Hunter (also know as Genie and Majin Hunter) are both physical and soul attacks. The range of the attack is enormous and it literally assaults your soul. As for Floopay's comment on the matter, I asked him how should Maka's soul control and soul rape should be treated, and he stated that it should be the same as telepathy for argument's sake. However, Maka's soul attack is nothing like Maka's soul control techniques, it's more along the lines of Psylocke's psionic-sword and psionic-dagger.

So just to recap the battle so far:

After my team attacks Jokergeists team and is headed to regroup with my team your team makes it move, you split Ultear and Medusa off from the main group to attempt to slow my guys down by setting up obstacles to keep my team divided and separated.

Punisher & Jean see this they circumvent it by flying around/over them.

Your team reconnects and heads off (together) to attack Dinah and Kakashi.

My team will be moving out right when you start your assault. Not when you're done.

Ultear and Medusa will set up blockades, such as trees, Vector Bullets and bombs. Vector Bullets can placed in the air. This should take no time at all since all their abilities are activated by thought.

They then meet back up and attack Dinah and Kakashi.

Now here's where things fall apart a bit for me, up until this point my team has had the undisputed speed advantage because of Punisher's bike, that being the case, Jean and Jake should not only overtake your team on the way back, but should in fact get the opening attack. As your team went to the trouble of laying roadblocks down. Now unless your team can cross the distance between the road outside the Village and the whole area they attempted to block off and the area where Kakashi and Dinah are faster than my team can (which isn't possible thanks to the speed cap) at best we arrive at around the same time and at worst my team arrives ahead of your team. But let's continue on for a moment.

Uh, now you're confusing me. Jean and Punisher are much farther away then my team is to yours (Dinah and Kakashi). She wouldn't get the message until my team starts their assault. Medusa and Ultear can lay down road blocks in under a minute. They will then move back to assault Dinah and Kakashi. I don't know how fast you expect Punisher and Jean to get back (you said a couple of minutes). Now the problem I think you're getting at is that you believe Ultear and Medusa are going to blockade Punisher and Jean all the way at the town, which is not the case.

Your team of 5 arrives and their opening salvo is a mental attack on Kakashi & Dinah, the attack is nullified by Jean's eyepatch.

Kakashi and Dinah counterattack: Kakashi casts Flight on himself and makes a shadow clone and he carries Dinah in:

She uses a wide angle Canary Cry; he casts Magic Missile Designating three targets; your counter is your team absorbs the magic and or has a resistance to it (I think the jury is still out on that one).

Then things start getting a little fuzzy for me so let's move on.

My mental assault can happen over 100 meters away. So Maka would know that it wouldn't work by the time we actually reached fighting distance.

My team then decides to use a different method. Which is having Ultear just flash freeze your team then you use Flash Forward, but instead of using her usual Lachrima orb as a weapon, she will use a plastic explosive.

Forgetting for a second what I posted about travel times a second ago; How does Maka's knowledge of my team approaching get transferred to Ultear? As I said earlier she's in battle, been hit with the Magic Missile so it's not like she can tell Ultear 'Hey they're getting closer' From my understanding Ultear was dropped off on the ground and Maka is up in the air.

In my prep, I have set up communication between my team with snakes and Lacrima orbs. The snakes in everyone's body allows everyone to hear each other's voices. So they will act as headphones. The Lacrima orbs act as a camera and allow me to see and hear things happening at another location. Scans are on the first page. It can also act as a communication device between them. Also Ultear is not being dropped off on the ground, she is literally going to jump off from Medusa's broomstick. While falling she will activate her magic. Her fall will be broken by Medusa's magic.

So does she continuously stand there using her using her ability to flash forward time at empty air until she hits the Punisher and Jean? And why would she do so if she has no knowledge they're under cloak? Maka wouldn't have it either (she just see's their souls) so she couldn't tell her. Wouldn't she be on the lookout for the opponents, unless it's in her character to indiscrimently fire off her time eye? And if so can she do Ice magic at the same time and what are the respective ranges of said attacks?

No, while falling from the air to the ground. She uses her ice magic and flash freezes Kakashi and Dinah. Then she uses Flash Forward (the technique) with a plastic explosive, rather than her usual communication device and blows them up. The range of ice magic was never given, but it should be within eye view. So whatever she can see, she should be able to affect. After that is done with, Maka will warn her team of Jake and Jean's arrival.

Edit: And since Maka doesn't know my team is invisible or that they even have the bike or that it can fly, given that she has zero reason to look in the air and indeed based on your teams actions they think Jake and Jean are travelling on the ground why would Ultear even be casting her ability into the air?

Maka wouldn't know that Jake and Jean are invisible, but she would able to know they are flying. She would see their souls moving through the air. Also why would Ultear need to look in the air for her ability to work? She's using it as a radial attack, rather than focusing on a singular object. Given that your bike is moving extremely fast, she would not be able to tag it through conventional means. Instead she will just encompass the area in her arc of time.

Here in the video, she is indiscriminately leveling an entire building.

At 13:25 you can see Ultear destroying an entire building in a near instance.

At 15:00 - 15:20 you can see the range of which her magic can affect.

#134 Edited by Jokergeist (4910 posts) - - Show Bio

Why are you two still debating? I've already proven that Jokergeist is the winner! Facts people! Facts!

#135 Edited by Floopay (7700 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: @omgomgwtfwtf: @jokergeist:

No more debating, voting is open.

Note: You may clarify certain misunderstanding voters make, but no more actual debating, or you will be disqualified. I was not happy with last round when the debate continued long after voting had started.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#136 Edited by Sovereign91001 (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

Aww hell, I was out for the day and missed posting before the deadline...bummer :(

#137 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

...I have no idea who the hell I'm supposed to vote for.

#confusedaf

#138 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6083 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump. We need votes.

#139 Posted by Dratini1331 (6416 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote for @omgomgwtfwtf because, by Jokergeist's logic, first is the worst, second is the best. Since b is second, and OmgOmgWtfWtf is B, he is by default the best. (also AoE is killer in mass fighting, and he has that in spades)

#140 Posted by Jokergeist (4910 posts) - - Show Bio
#141 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't want to read this.

But if you guys can just sum things up, that'd be great.

#142 Posted by Jokergeist (4910 posts) - - Show Bio
#143 Edited by batnorris (674 posts) - - Show Bio

Jokergeist! One of the best debators I know and I'm pretty sure he's my dad :-)

#144 Posted by Jokergeist (4910 posts) - - Show Bio

@batnorris: As your father I command you to change your vote to @omgomgwtfwtf immediately!

His victory is essential to my master plan....

#145 Edited by batnorris (674 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay :-( I officially change my vote to omgomgwtfwtf. :-D

#146 Posted by Dextersinister (5102 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm voting for @sovereign91001, omg performed well but a few points stood out, arguing that Ultear could tank a laser to the head and pointing out that geists plan was predictable when he mentioned how unpredictable the Joker was.

The psi shield thing was a bit iffy and was one of those things that could be interpreted in a few ways, even I have my own version on how I think it would go down.

#147 Edited by Jokergeist (4910 posts) - - Show Bio

Current Score

Sovereign - 1

OmgOmgWtfWtf - 3

Jokergeist - 0

#148 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm voting for @sovereign91001, omg performed well but a few points stood out, arguing that Ultear could tank a laser to the head and pointing out that geists plan was predictable when he mentioned how unpredictable the Joker was.

The psi shield thing was a bit iffy and was one of those things that could be interpreted in a few ways, even I have my own version on how I think it would go down.

I agree.

(after reading it again)

Sovereign would win. I personally bought the psi shield.

#149 Posted by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

Leaning toward OMGWTF

#150 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3368 posts) - - Show Bio