So should I respond to Cadence's last post, or are we starting over entirely, or what?
Feel free to respond, I plan on subbing my team for whatever the current tactics they were going for. With some slight tweaking, as my team is obviously much different than LSSH's team, so some change will have to happen.
Easily my most useful and most vulnerable character. He can effectively handle anyone on the other team who relies too heavily on their powers, and is an okay marksman. He's a survivalist, an excellent tracker, and is great at stealth.
He's extremely well fit, easily at peak athletic condition for a man of his build.
His super power is power cancellation, and memory wiping. By touch, he can wipe a person's memory, and pick and choose what they do and do not remember. He can also KO someone with a touch if necessary.
Power Cancellation can be done in a wide assortment of ways. He can broadcast a field, essentially preventing any powers from being used but his own within the designated area, or he can target one or multiple people simultaneously. Powerful individuals can actually strain him, like Arthur Petreli, who could drain a person's life force and absorb their powers with a touch. As of now, he's the only one to be able to do so.
Memory Alteration - The Haitian can mind wipe hordes of people at a time without touching them. However, if he does touch someone, he can merge his mind with their own, and then alter their memory however he wishes, or force them to remember certain things.
Perfect Memory - The Haitian has what may be a photographic memory.
I can't find a single video of him, so I'll site all my feats:
The Haitian is the one who can track anyone anywhere. He seems to be able to appear anywhere at anytime. He's not a teleporter, but he's an expert tracker. He has a military background, not only as an armed member of the Company, but grew up in a warzone in Haiti. He's a pretty good marksman, and an expert at using his own powers.
Season 2 - In General
The Haitian is the one who tracks down Peter. He is the one who tracks down all of the painting for Noah Bennett,
Heroes Season 3 Episode 10-11 - The Eclipse Parts 1 & 2
The Haitian is discovered in Haiti (surprise). Peter, Nathan, and the Haitian (Rene) outrun gunfire from automatic weapons. Nathan gives himself up and gets captured. At this point, they are all depowered, so it's actually a decent feat. -End of Part 1
The Haitian and Peter decide to strike Baron Samedi (Rene's brother), while everyone is depowered. They sneak into an armed camp, and knock down Rene's brother with a club, and then jack his weapon.
Peter gets pinned down by enemy fire, and eventually surrenders. While surrendering, the Haitian sneaks up behind two soldiers and instantly knocks them out by touching their heads for less than half a second with his hands. The Haitian and his brother fight, and the Haitian grabs him by the head and wipes his mind completely.
Season 3 Episode 12 - Our Father
The Haitian knocks out a guard with a touch again. He then cancels Arthur Petreli's powers for a good five minutes or so before Arthur begins to overpower him.
Tactic
Alright, our teams have basic knowledge on each other.
Now that knowledge is extended for myself and Cadence, as Deadpool has pretty intimate knowledge on Esquire's X-Force team. Obviously the same can be proven for Esquire's team's knowledge on Deadpool. Each of his members would have intimate knowledge on Deadpool.
Shriek is nothing new to Deadpool, he has dealt with two separate sonic manipulators on over a dozen occasions. Between Siryn and Banshee that is.
At the end of the day, with basic knowledge on our oppoents, @cadencev2 will have to decide whether he agrees or disagrees with this, I believe the best idea would be to keep the T-800, the Haitian, Spike Spiegel, and and possibly Wolf or Aira.
Deadpool will be on his own, and will serve as a scout and tracker against the enemy team. Between him, the Haitian, Wolf, and etc. I think our team will be able to track your team pretty well. He's immune to all telepathic intrusion and detection
Artemis Entreri is also an expert tracker, and thanks to the Charon's Claw combo, he will be immune to any psychic detection or intrusion.
The Haitian can broadcast a null power field over a wide area, which should prevent Mitchell Hundred from affecting any equipment my team has. Additionally, this will prevent any external powers from being used within the field (illusions, energy projections, etc.). Finally, as per the rules, he can negate the power of, or wipe the memory of one individual at a time. He can easily disable Psylocke's powers and wipe her memory, or any others.
Spike Spiegel has Remote Detonators, Grenades, and his pistols to shoot at or shoot down team members.
Copied/Pasted Feats from my previous thread.
Deadpool
Deadpool is a crack shot and extremely skilled. Working on gathering more feats for him, but right now I will settle for his two fights with Taskmaster. The first fight Tony lost because Deadpool's fighting style was so unpredictable (last scan I'm providing), and the second fight he lost...well, because Deadpool is THAT good. It's revealed at the end Taskmaster wasn't playing around either, and Deadpool was manacled the entire fight (both hands and feet). And he still made a joke out of Taskmaster!
That's no small feat of ability!
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Artemis Entreri
SpeedHis speed is remarkable! In this scan he is able to go from a comfortable seated position, and he stands up, draws his dagger, leaps across the room, past a few guards, and is right on top of someone with a dagger at their throat before the guards have even registered that he's moved. And these guards are no joke, they are part of the most secure fortress inCalimport (the Copper Ante tavern), which is one of the most crime filled cities on the surface world.
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Speed / Stealth
Okay, this is Morik the Rogue. He's notorious for how paranoid he is. If you read the scans, he spends 10 minutes disarming all the traps he has placed on this door, and unlocking it. He knows where these traps are and exactly how to disarm them. He also has the keys to this door and has to unlock 3 sets of locks. He then scans his room, where he notices there is nothing around. He then feels something amiss, and does a thorough scan of the room and finds nothing.
Entreri is then at his back with a dagger, as he had been hiding the entire time, so well, that Morik wasn't able to detect him. The two have a conversation, Entreri takes the orb and asks about some jewels, and then leaves.
Now, what took Morik 10 minutes to disarm and open (the guy who has the keys and knows where the traps are, I can't stress that enought), takes Entreri less than the span of 2 minutes to unlock (stated, within the span of two minutes on paper) to pick the locks and disarm every trap, and walk out. The guy's hands are like blurs, he's fast...he's VERY fast.
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Charon's Claw Sword
This thing emits a glow that makes infrared detection impossible.
When swung, if Entreri desires, it creates a wall of ash that hovers in the air. He uses this often to section off his opponents from one another. They are as durable as a wall of ash would be, so smacking them will easily dismiss the wall. However, it easily obscures visions, and etc.
Also him dominating some wererats, who are also very skilled and very formidable.
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vs. Jarlaxle
Entreri takes on Jarlaxle for the second time.
Notice Charon's Claw absorbs the magic energy directed at him? He then is able to blow apart a large Crystal wall with it. The blast he projects is only as powerful as the ones he absorbs, and it can't absorb an unlimited amount of energy. however, the Crystal Shard is well above the limits of anything in this tournament so I'm very confident it'll do well against any soul, psionic, and magic attacks your team puts against it.
He is able to, at one point, see through Jarlaxle's illusion (after learning it's there), dive at Jarlaxle, and while lunging at him he slits Jarlaxle's belt pouch off his belt, sheaths his dagger, grabs a new pouch, drop the pouch at Jarlaxle's side, and then hide Jarlaxle's belt pouch beneath him, all while taking a few hits from Jarlaxle's warhammer.
He is then confronted by a small number of drow, and uses the glove to draw energy from the shard, causing the tower to shake, and takes advantage of his opponents disorientation, grabs Jarlaxle, and the two lunge through the dimensional portal.
Note: He doesn't have the Shard anymore, don't worry about that.
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Spike Spiegel
Spike vs. Asimov
Asimov is high on a drug they call Bloody Eye. It enhances his perception to super human levels, and it seems to increase his strength and abilities to peak human levels.
This video has a lot of good feats for Spike. It shows off his sleight of hand, it shows off his martial arts style, and it shows off his ability to handle multiple opponents at once.
As you can see, Spike is about a bullet timer. What I mean by that, is he knows when to take cover, and he can usually take cover before the bullets are fired. He's not so fast that he's untaggable by a bullet, but he's pretty good at moving fast enough to get behind something before the bullets really start flying, and keeping ahead of somebodies aim.
Spike shoots Wen
Wen is a child in form, but realistically he's an immortal. I forget how old he is, but he's pretty much unkillable. Spike crafts a special bullet designed to kill him, and from a pretty decent distance, is able to shoot him dead center of his forehead. This is done with Spike's Contender, which is a pretty decent weapon as far as accurate is concerned, and is more suited for longer ranged attacks. Wen could have easily ended Spike, I have no doubts on that, and I won't debate that. But with his huberis, he though himself unkillable, and that Spike wouldn't be able to kill him. This is more of a feat for his distance shot than anything.
Jump to 3:30-4:15 - You can watch the rest, but it's hard to enjoy out of context.
Spike...don't call him Vicious
Spike is tracked down by a group of armed thugs, and he man handles them like nobodies business. This is pretty smart on his part. He knows he can't really outrun them forever, so he instead leads them into an alley way, where their numbers can be used against them. He then proceeds to beat the crap out of them...
This is an all around good feat for him, shows off his strength, martial arts, speed, reflexes, dodging ability, etc.
Spike....not taking the situation very seriously...at all
This is a good feat of Spike's because of how obvious it is that he's not considering his life in danger AT ALL. It has a lot of good parkour feats for him, and a pretty good showing of his martial arts style. Again, he'll be serious against your teams, but this is just him having fun!
Spike explains Jeet Kune Do to someone (Roco)
To explain how Spike's martial arts style works, here is his own explanation (a parody of Bruce Lee's explanation)
Spike - Ballad of the Fallen Angels
My favorite all time episode, shows off Spike's abilities against extremely well trained henchmen. These guys aren't jobbers, and aren't fodder. They are trained gunman and are feared by all.
Spike's marksmanship is pretty great here, you can see he's very tactically sound, and even though he's not fully prepared for the situation he does pretty well.
@floopay: The Haitian is a telepath and as such his powers follow the rules of telepathy so you can't set up a field and you have to be within a 100 feet. Also, it won't do crap to Mitchell as his power comes from the tech imbedded in his face. You also do not want to mess with his mind as that is the only thing holding him back from going into full dimension conquering mode. His powers also won't will only take away Daken's pheromones as that is the only power that he actively controls. Mysterio will be downright immune because he is also a telepath. Psylocke, as a telepath, would be immune. None of Wolverine's powers will be effected as they are all instinct. Fantomex's psionic shielding will protect him entirely. None of Archangel's powers will be effected because he is mostly technoorganic and trying to suppress his mind will only bring out Death. All in all, the Haitian will be relatively useless here which is why I warned you against using him. Leech or No Girl would have been much better choices. Also, near the end of the first season, Matt Parkman, a very low level telepath capable of only reading minds at this point, was able to bypass his power negation field and read his mind. Psylocke is a telepath of the highest order, she will have no problem getting through.
@cadencev2: That is incorrect. All Heroes Superpowers come directly from the brain which means they are all psionic in nature. This is why Sylar cuts open people's heads and looks at the brain which is also why he and Peter are able to empathically mimic Heroes superpowers. The Haitian's power works almost exactly like No-Girl but he isn't a floating brain in a jar. Read his power description and try and tell me that he is not a telepath. He can merge his mind with people, alter memories, and use his power to suppress some powers of the mind. It only has feats at cancelling mind-based powers so it won't work on a good number of our people. Peter is weak minded and as such was cancelled out. His strong minded dad, Arthur, on the other hand was able to fight it in part because he had absorbed Maury Parkman's Telepathy. Matt Parkman, who during the first season was at Mister X level of telepathy, was able to read the mind of the Haitian. Psylocke has feats that put her far above Mister X and pretty much even every feat that Matt Parkman has. If such a weak telepath was able to break through the Haitian's field then there is no way that Psylocke or Mysterio or Elektra aren't. Telepathy is a stated counter to the Haitian's power.
I am guessing you didn't watch Heroes otherwise you would be aware of all this. I'll see if I can find the videos of Arthur and Matt giving the Haitian some problems.
All of this matters not anyways as he is going to be dead before the battle even gets rolling. Mitchell is going to use Shriek to amp his voice and send it throughout the cave and say one word, "Explode." All of Spike and Deadpool's grenades will now explode killing Spike, the Haitian, and maybe Artemis while also destroying Deadpool's equipment and putting him out of commission for a short while. Both of those abilities are derived from tech so they are unaffected so even if his power works as you suggest, he will still be dead before any of it matters.
@cadencev2: That is incorrect. All Heroes Superpowers come directly from the brain which means they are all psionic in nature. This is why Sylar cuts open people's heads and looks at the brain which is also why he and Peter are able to empathically mimic Heroes superpowers. The Haitian's power works almost exactly like No-Girl but he isn't a floating brain in a jar. Read his power description and try and tell me that he is not a telepath. He can merge his mind with people, alter memories, and use his power to suppress some powers of the mind. It only has feats at cancelling mind-based powers so it won't work on a good number of our people. Peter is weak minded and as such was cancelled out. His strong minded dad, Arthur, on the other hand was able to fight it in part because he had absorbed Maury Parkman's Telepathy. Matt Parkman, who during the first season was at Mister X level of telepathy, was able to read the mind of the Haitian. Psylocke has feats that put her far above Mister X and pretty much even every feat that Matt Parkman has. If such a weak telepath was able to break through the Haitian's field then there is no way that Psylocke or Mysterio or Elektra aren't. Telepathy is a stated counter to the Haitian's power.
I am guessing you didn't watch Heroes otherwise you would be aware of all this. I'll see if I can find the videos of Arthur and Matt giving the Haitian some problems.
All of this matters not anyways as he is going to be dead before the battle even gets rolling. Mitchell is going to use Shriek to amp his voice and send it throughout the cave and say one word, "Explode." All of Spike and Deadpool's grenades will now explode killing Spike, the Haitian, and maybe Artemis while also destroying Deadpool's equipment and putting him out of commission for a short while. Both of those abilities are derived from tech so they are unaffected so even if his power works as you suggest, he will still be dead before any of it matters.
LOL the only thing the brain has do to with anything is Sylar eating parts of the brain to understand how to use a power.
Show me proof it is stated as Psionic or Psychic directly. Any proof of a direct connection. Asari use their Biotic Powers with their brains. In turn is allows them to utilize their Body Electricity. Guess their Jean Grey Psychics? No.
Everyone needs a brain to think and perform any power. That is not the same as a Psychic.
Sylar doesn't eat their brains, he examines them to find what is different and then can modify his own brain. There is as reason why a spike through a part of Claire or Sylar's brain knocks out their regenerative powers it is because their powers are all centered in the brain. Sylar doesn't even have to examine the brain as he can also empathically mimic people's powers like he did with Elle. He felt her pain and was able to use her powers explain how that is possible. How does feeling what another person suddenly give you their powers if they are not psionic in nature? Peter Petrelli does the exact same thing through his Empathic Mimicry, he empathizes with a person and gains their powers. Tim Kring, the creator, said his powers work "based on his empathy and his ability to connect with people." If powers were not psionic in nature then this would not be possible.
Given that the only 2 people in the Heroes Universe to get through the Haitian's field are Matt Parkman and Arthur Petrelli (Who had absorbed Maury and Matt Parkman's telepathic powers), we can safely say that even if it is not telepathic, it is still countered by telepathy. Given that Telepathy is defined as direct mind to mind communication, the Haitian's powers are definitely telepathy though.
Asari Biotics are simply extra organs that they have that are controlled by the brain. The brain is not the source of the power though it is whatever other organs they may have. We know this to be true because artificial biotics can be installed in other people. Do Asari use their biotics to communicate with each other? They may be well telepaths.
This is suggesting that his abilities will even work in the Underdark where there is no sun. This suggests that they are also in part solar powered. If a simple eclipse can rob every Hero of their power, what do you expect being miles underground will do? He shouldn't have access to his powers at all in the Underdark.
His power negation field should only work on external powers. To fully cancel an individuals powers it would fall under the same rules as telepathy.
What does that mean?
That means any illusions, psi bolts, mind control, technopathy, and etc. used within his field would be negated. However, he can't disable someone's telepathy, regeneration, physical amplifications, etc. unless he focuses on an individual. He also can't mindwipe groups.
@floopay: That is not how his powers work. His powers work by making your brain forget how to use your brain-based powers. Why else do you think that he has the bonus ability to remove memories? He functions much like No-Girl but without the bonus of ranged telepathy and sweet floating hover jar brain which is why she would have been a better choice. His powers would also have zero effect on Mitchell, Shriek, Mysterio, Eva, and Archangel as they are tech. Heck, if you look at the heroes wiki it even lists his power as Mental Manipulation.
Let's also talk about his range. In the show, he is never shown to be able to effect anything beyond 20-30 feet. That is an awfully small radius and will be of limited use against my ranged guys especially given our mobility advantage.
But again, this is all moot as Mitchell and Shriek will kill him before he can be of much value to you.
@diredrill: I thought I should point out the Obvious Wikis mean nothing. On Panel Feats and such are proof. There is a Wiki that Ultimate Adamantium is broken several times. I pulled up the scans to disprove all of them.
Wikis are garbage as far as proof.
@esquire@floopayHere is the dealeo.... yes I said it dealeo,. Our team will be entrenched in a well position spot with little access but the kill zone. We will have the superior advantage of keeping tabs on you, were your in the dark on ours. We have ways to booby trap areas and incapacitate entire chunks of your team.
We have the High Ground and you are all blindly walking into our trap. Only now with the Hatian's power field, I can use all my weapons for Doom Guy including the Missile Launcher and Chain Gun for Terminator's super accuracy.
@cadencev2: How well does the high ground work when our team has a spaceship, a teleporter, and 2 fliers? How many of your marksmen can hit targets moving at Mach 1? What's to keep EVA from killing the Hatian with a laser cannon strafing run, or Archangel from perforating him with nerve toxin-coated feathers, or Mitch from killing him with ray guns, while all of them are outside his range?
Also, your constant misrepresentation is really poor debating technique. How the heck do you figure that we're walking blindly into anything, when we have Daken, Wolverine, EVA, Fantomex, Mitch, Shriek, and the Bat Familiars? You continually use loaded language to imply things that we've already countered, and it doesn't help move the debate along.
@cadencev2: How well does the high ground work when our team has a spaceship, a teleporter, and 2 fliers? How many of your marksmen can hit targets moving at Mach 1? What's to keep EVA from killing the Hatian with a laser cannon strafing run, or Archangel from perforating him with nerve toxin-coated feathers, or Mitch from killing him with ray guns, while all of them are outside his range?
Also, your constant misrepresentation is really poor debating technique. How the heck do you figure that we're walking blindly into anything, when we have Daken, Wolverine, EVA, Fantomex, Mitch, Shriek, and the Bat Familiars? You continually use loaded language to imply things that we've already countered, and it doesn't help move the debate along.
Oh... its on.
With the Hatian there is no mind reading at all. Your team is flying blind into out team fortified position. I showed hos my guys make use of cover and make cover. Since this is a city, we can hide well in the largest building courtyard for terrain and make shift cover.
I have 2 Biotics who are also Hyper sonic In speed when Biotic up. I have Biotic attacks I showed that can Stasis half your team alone with a Stasis bubble. Meanwhile the Hatian can easy hide in the terrain with the Asari who can make the Super Barriers.
All your range means little when half your team is frozen, we have cover and barriers, as well more raw Range Power from better marksmen.
Daken, Wolverine, Psylock, Mitch, mean nothing when blown away. EVA is the biggest and easiest target. How about 200+ rounds of Plasma thats as hot as the sun! Or 50 Rockets?! Or a mini Black Hole Singularity!
Seriously, I am not loading words. We have a huge advantage. Made more so with the activation of the Laser Mines that the retarded Darken and Wolverine are charging into like dopes!
Your team is flying blind into out team fortified position.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. There is no reason to believe this is the case. Are you saying that the Hatian's field will counter all of our superhuman senses? Because even if there is evidence of such a thing, (which I'm not remembering from the show), it doesn't matter. First of all, super senses are a passive ability, which he shouldn't be able to nullify. Second, unless you're arguing that his field extends across the entire battlefield, he won't be shutting off our senses at the start of the battle even if that was within his capabilities. Third, he doesn't somehow block all sound and scent your team gives off, which means that Wolverine, Daken, Fantomex, and Shriek can all hear and/or smell out your location. By smell alone, Daken is able to track movements and locate people. You have no counter to this, and Wolverine can do the same thing.
The Haitan has had his mind read by a weaker telepath than Psylocke, so she'll be able to read your teams' minds and get your location that way. Diredrill's perk is the 10 bat familiars, which allow us to pinpoint your position from the sky. EVA has sensors which will let us detect your team. I literally cannot understand why you think our team is "flying blind." Please, enlighten me.
I showed hos my guys make use of cover and make cover. Since this is a city, we can hide well in the largest building courtyard for terrain and make shift cover.
EVA shoots the building, angering the Drow, who kill your team. Hiding inside their dwellings isn't the wisest decision. Floopay stated that they would attack if antagonized, and with Misdirection I can make them think it was you who attacked them. I can just Misdirect them into thinking you attacked even without shooting the building, and let the occupants of the building flush you out.
Controlling Civilians - Bad idea, your teams are briefed on their surrounding, and in the middle of a drow city with several renowned psionicists and wizards well above your teams pay grade, it would be best to stick to fighting each other and not the city :)
Fantomex is a master manipulator who's been briefed on his surroundings, and has a power that lets him cast illusions that ignore psionic resistance. How does your team fare when one of these wizards gets it into his head that you're vandalizing his home?
I have 2 Biotics who are also Hyper sonic In speed when Biotic up.
Am I reading this right, that Liara and Aria have hypersonic speed?
I have Biotic attacks I showed that can Stasis half your team alone with a Stasis bubble.
From the videos I've seen, the Stasis Bubble moves far slower than a bullet, and my team is composed entirely of people with the reflexes to react to bullets. Why can they not simply dodge it?
Meanwhile the Hatian can easy hide in the terrain with the Asari who can make the Super Barriers.
How durable are these Super Barriers?
Daken, Wolverine, Psylock, Mitch, mean nothing when blown away.
Who's 'blowing away' the bullet dodgers with healing factors? What weaponry are you using that Psylocke can't block with her TK? Who's tagging Mitch when he's flying at around mach 1? I want to see marksmanship feats to say you can take down Archangel and Mitch in midflight, please.
EVA is the biggest and easiest target. How about 200+ rounds of Plasma thats as hot as the sun! Or 50 Rockets?! Or a mini Black Hole Singularity!
I assume that's Doom Guy's plasma rifle? Again, I want feats saying that you can tag EVA moving at Mach 1.
Seriously, I am not loading words.
Unless you can prove that all of my team's ways to detect you won't work, that's exactly what you're doing.
We have a huge advantage. Made more so with the activation of the Laser Mines that the retarded Darken and Wolverine are charging into like dopes!
Where are you getting this idea? In my strategy, they were being carried by Archangel. Secondly, Daken is brilliant and Wolverine is an extremely experienced fighter and tactician. They have enhanced senses. They're TP linked into the rest of my team, so they get the benefit of EVA's scanners and Mitch, who can talk to machines. Even if you continue to deny that his power lets him affect the Predator's technology, he's still able to locate them, and Psylocke's TP would let him relay their existence and location to Logan and Daken.
Again, you're using loaded words, ("retarded," "dopes,"), and you're failing to acknowledge many of our team's abilities. I'm not impressed.
@esquire: No one has called him on his abominable debate tactics so he continues doing it. People back him because they get all weak in the knees over his pictures.
You read my entire post and you pull the one thing that you can deal with out of it? Good job, you have proven that you ignore all that you can't counter.
His power field will not protect against Mitchell's powers because they are technology and the Haitians powers are useless on tech.
I have already shown that the Haitian has been defeated by not 1 but 2 very low level telepaths and you think your team has protection against our team's telepaths? Seems legit. You don't have LSSH's Psychic Shield anymore which means all of your people's minds are open books. The Haitian is functionally useless against our team.
Given the new team, me and Esquire are still thinking through our general strategy.
1) Super Human Smell is not accurate to the type of terrain I am using, how I am position for a fight, ect. All it tells you is where I am.
2) The Drow who get angry will be Provoked, in attacking you. They are Drow, very intelligent creatures. I am hiding in a building structure and your blasting it. Who they attacking? The ones not attacking them or the ones attacking them?
The Enemy of my enemy......
3) Again your team is the ones vandalizing, not us.Your proving to be the enemy and not caring for their homes to leave us alone. Also if these Drow Wizards who are mad powerful will know Fantomex is screwing with their minds.
Fantomex Tech power < Straight Magic TP.
4) When they power up, yes. They have Short Burst of Speed for Dodges and Counters.
Just like any Biotic Power it has a short burst limit but Liara uses it twice to great effect. Aria is actually speculation as she does not have a feat of this, so I was mistaken on her. However Aria is still a major bullet dodger.
5) Yes, unlike regular Stasis, the Stasis Bubble is slower, however will your team really dodge it? It will block a good spot of the battle area and then I can block another solid spot with a Singularity. 2 of them if Aria launches one.
Then your team which has a lot of Close Combat types are useless getting to my team.
So that is alot of negated area for your team to maneuver in without being easy targets.
6) Durable enough with full concentration to Keep Out 100 Ton Ocean Pressure as well withstand 6 Missiles before the strain is to much.
Liara and Aria can make these Barriers to gain the precious 10-20 seconds needed before they are broken by your EVA.
7) Is Psylock holding back Rocket Launchers, Plasma Guns, Scorpion Explosive Rounds, Chain Gun, Dual Plasma Casters, and all of Floopay's weapons? I doubt it, otherwise she would be strong enough to rip the mountain down with her TK.
8) Okay, I will show the Comic.
600 Rounds of Blasts.
Loading Video...
Skip to :25
A lot of fire power in a short time.
9) and 10) I am not saying you cannot detect my position. You just have no knowledge what your running into or how our team is set up. Those are huge military advantages.
As for Wolverine and Daken Charging in, thats what they do! Punisher shot Daken to hell, fortunately Daken was hit by weaker weapons than what I am packing. Wolverine... are you serious? This guy relies in 70% of showings on tanking attacks with his healing factor.
We first find some Drow that has both seen and heard Lolth. This should not be difficult given her influence in the Menzoberranzen. Psylocke pulls that information out of their head and gives it to both Shriek and Mysterio. They then create exact copies of both using their tech. As we know exactly what at least Deadpool looks like, we create an exact illusion of him as well. Initially Elektra and Fantomex venture into the Bazaar looking for explosives of some sort but instead are turned onto a much better option, a Ring of Elemental Command (Earth). Elektra then finds a vendor selling an activated Ring and Fantomex Misdirects them into giving us the activated ring. We are in the Underdark a vast underground cavern, someone will have one especially in the Bazaar that is incredibly close to us. Misdirection is immune to psionics so any psionicist will not even sense this is happening should they be watching. Mysterio is given the ring and told how to use it. After these missions are finished, they return to Narbondel. This should take no more than 1 hour tops given the proximity to the Bazaar and mobility and Lolth's influence on the Menzoberranzen.
This is when Psylocke, Fantomex and Shriek team up. EVA is sentient technoorganics and can be reformed into literally any technology our team could need. Shriek turns her into an amplifier for his sonic tech. He has built one of these before out a building so retrofitting EVA should be no problem given Psylocke's telepathy.
This ends our prep.
Once the battle starts, Daken and Psylocke and Fantomex and Mitchell head to the Bazaar. Mysterio and Shriek then start the show. Narbondel is the clock tower of the Menzoberranzen everyone looks at it at some point during the day given that watches and clocks are not common in this time period. It is a center focal point so we will eventually have the Menzoberranzen's entire attention. Mysterio explodes Lolth into place above Narbondel. The image is created by the use of fog. Shriek then begins with an angry greeting in Drow followed by a demand for Deadpool's head. Deadpool's image is then shown it will have no fog. Daken floods the bazaar with pheromones that make the people more likely to believe the message. Psylocke and Fantomex team up and find all the people who are more actively doubting it and Misdirect them into believing it. Mitchell starts flooding the area with some of Mysterio's hallucinogens to further seal the deal. All of this should turn the entire Bazaar into what is essentially an angry mob. The Drows own backstabbing nature will tell them where to find you. You now have at least 100 people coming for you.
But they are a smokescreen. As your team barricades themselves into the most defensible location, our team is closing in close behind. Your team's weapons are all fully active allowing you to slaughter the Drow en masse but we are actively sending this information into all nearby Drow telepathically drawing in more Drow. Mysterio finds the area above your team and teleports up and starts using his ring to Soften Earth and Stone which allows him to turn a 10x10x4 area of stone into clay an infinite number of times. He essentially weakens the top layer of the roof. Shriek and EVA then start knocking it all down. Your team can't find us with any of your detection powers because the Drow are keeping you busy. Shriek's suit was made to demolish buildings and with EVA's amplification, he can now bring down large sections of the roof right down on your heads. Shriek and Mysterio will also be nullifying all sound and generating illusions that make it appear as though nothing is happening but your team is too busy with Drow to notice anyways. Your team gets crushed under tons of rock as our team disappears in EVA using Mysterio's illusions to cloak us as we escape. Since we used tech and trickery that the Drow cannot detect or even understand, they won't know how to explain what just happened.
I am assuming that @cadencev2, will want scans that prove all of this is possible but this isn't even hypothetical use of power. Daken has Pheromones, Psylocke is a telepath, Elektra is a telepath, Shriek shoots soundwaves and manipulates sound, Mysterio is a teleporter and illusionist, and EVA is a technoorganic craft capable of altering her shape and function. Do you really want me to post scans of these? You will probably say yes because you need your pretty pictures.
@esquire: @diredrill: So now... you guys are changing your entire Prep and first strike cause you both know it failed against my argument? Do we get reset buttons here when your plan fails?
Also yes I want proof. Electra is a very weak Telepath, barely one. Show me proof that Drow will be fooled with their senses and Magic head honchos by mere TP and Holo Cubes.
@cadencev2: Different teams different strategy, we said we were going to change things up.
Elektra is only picking information out of people's heads, she isn't doing anything complicated. Mind Reading is a basic talent of telepathy. If needbe we could also sub in Psylocke for this as finding someone who has seen and heard Lolth will be just as easy in the Bazaar as anywhere else.
The Drow have Darkvision which functions like low light vision and they have better hearing. Neither of these will be of value here. They also have a higher resistance to magic than most races so if this ability works then they will assume it is not magic. Take a look at this list of spells and try and fine one that will work here. Every single one of them either only works on magical things or it has other limitations that make using it useless. True Sight for instance can't pierce the fog being used to generate the hologram. This list of Psionic Power also won't work because Lolth is a goddess and as such would be immune to their effects anyways.
The Drow are a chaotic race who worship Lolth and ever seek her favor. No one would dare question a directive from her and after using all of their magics and psionics they would turn up zilch on this being fake. Your team are outsiders and the Drow are highly xenophobic, they will already be more watchful of your team and their movements through the Menzoberranzen. Given the chance, the Drow would murder your entire team if they could and Lolth not only condoning but requesting it is just the lit match ready to set off the fire. After you kill a few of them, we won't even need the illusion anymore as now we have a team of outsiders killing Drow which will incur the rage of all drow. My team will be using Mysterio's illusions to make us appear as Drow so we will be able to move freely.
Also, I am only really targeting the Bazaar. With Mysterio's Hallucinogens, Daken's Pheromones, and Fantomex's Misdirection, we should be able to convince enough of the Bazaar to go and kill you. Given that the Drow have been watching you the whole time because they actively hate you, finding you will take moments but if need be Psylocke can also plant a thought in some heads on your location.
You want to know what the truly crazy part is? Given Deadpool's penchant for pissing off gods, your team may also believe it.
That is not a threat, so if you have a character who you think might be above the limits but are hoping to get them anyway because this thread is going to be locked, then I WILL replace them when feats are provided that put them above the limits.
In the sign-ups thread, the rules were very clear:
These are their MAXIMUM limitations. Which means you can't pick someone with Mach 1 speed, and give him an item that lets him temporarily triple his speed. Or a character with 3 ton strength who can boost himself to 5 ton strength.
Speed Limit:Mach 1
Speed limit is Mach 1, and you can't even temporarily go over it. But Cadence unambigously states that Liara is hypersonic, and confirmed that when I questioned him about it.
When they power up, yes. They have Short Burst of Speed for Dodges and Counters.
This is a clear violation of the rules, and according to the rules established before the beginning of the match, Liara should be removed and replaced with a legal character.
In addition, her Barriers laugh in the face of the extended durability rules or the TK rules if you try to bypass them by saying they're an external power. Cadence is saying they can hold back 100s of tons of water.
Telekinesis and Similar Powers: This includes electrokinesis, magnetic fields, force powers, and other attacks that are similar to telekinesis. The limit is 5 tons, same as the strength limitation.
Liara should not be in this match, according to the claims Cadence is making.
1) Super Human Smell is not accurate to the type of terrain I am using, how I am position for a fight, ect. All it tells you is where I am.
Daken was able to tell Moonstone where the enemies were in the terrain and identify their movements, so I don't know what you're going on about with positions and such. In addition, Daken and Wolverine's noses are sensitive enough to pick out specific materials from the environment. Your futuristic weapons are going to smell quite a bit different from the medieval gear in the rest of the city. Combine this with sensors and the bat familiars and we have even more detail. And as is becoming typical, you're ignoring that we have TP. The Haitian had his mind read by a weaker telepath than Psylocke. Psylocke can pull the details of the terrain, your positions, your team's abilities, etc. out of their minds since you have no defense against it. For the third time, we won't at all be going in blind, in any sense of the phrase.
2) The Drow who get angry will be Provoked, in attacking you. They are Drow, very intelligent creatures. I am hiding in a building structure and your blasting it. Who they attacking? The ones not attacking them or the ones attacking them? 3) Again your team is the ones vandalizing, not us.Your proving to be the enemy and not caring for their homes to leave us alone. Also if these Drow Wizards who are mad powerful will know Fantomex is screwing with their minds.
It's a good thing we have an illusionist who can ignore psionic defenses. And a powerful telepath. And Elektra, who has illusions as well. And Mysterio's illusions. And Shriek's sonic illusions. Fantomex has Misdirected Professor Xavier, who's an extremely intelligent and "mad powerful" creature. He's Misdirect the Horsemen of Apocalypse. He's misdirected AoA Apocalypse, who should also qualify as "mad powerful." Without proof to back up your assertions, I don't see the problem here.
Fantomex Tech power < Straight Magic TP.
Clark's 3rd Law invalidates this, lol. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Fantomex is nothing if not sufficiently advanced.
But seriously, he's Misdirected people with additional senses before. These Drow have never encountered any sort of tech that could hold a candle to Fantomex. Thousands of years of innovation and nano-sentinel evolution produced him. What's your proof that his power doesn't measure up? The guy has stolen from Doctor Doom, arguably the most powerful sorcerer in the Marvel Universe. He's specifically evolved to kill people with superpowers. Fantomex is no pushover.
4) When they power up, yes. They have Short Burst of Speed for Dodges and Counters. Just like any Biotic Power it has a short burst limit but Liara uses it twice to great effect.
As discussed above, this is a violation of the rules.
Aria is actually speculation as she does not have a feat of this, so I was mistaken on her. However Aria is still a major bullet dodger.
Bullet dodging is good, but every one of my X-Force members can react to bullets, along with Elektra and Daken. So bullet dodging isn't putting Aria anywhere out of our league in speed.
5) Yes, unlike regular Stasis, the Stasis Bubble is slower, however will your team really dodge it? It will block a good spot of the battle area and then I can block another solid spot with a Singularity. 2 of them if Aria launches one. Then your team which has a lot of Close Combat types are useless getting to my team. So that is alot of negated area for your team to maneuver in without being easy targets.
Why would they not dodge it? It moves slowly and even if they don't know what it does, if it's being shot at you it's common sense to get out of the way. Although Psylocke's TP means we would know what it does, anyway, since she can pull it out of any of your teams' minds. It looks to be maybe 5 feet wide, it's not like an impenetrable wall between our teams. Even with 2 singularities deployed, this is still a huge battlefield with lots of options for flanking and simply avoiding your biotic blockades.
6) Durable enough with full concentration to Keep Out 100 Ton Ocean Pressure as well withstand 6 Missiles before the strain is to much. Liara and Aria can make these Barriers to gain the precious 10-20 seconds needed before they are broken by your EVA.
Again, this breaks the rules.
7) Is Psylock holding back Rocket Launchers, Plasma Guns, Scorpion Explosive Rounds, Chain Gun, Dual Plasma Casters, and all of Floopay's weapons? I doubt it, otherwise she would be strong enough to rip the mountain down with her TK.
Not at the same time, but she won't need to. If we use our LSSH strategy, then Psylocke is in EVA moving at Mach 1, which you still haven't proven any of your characters can hit. If we're using our Floopay strategy, then Psylocke will never be exposed to any weapons fire in the first place.
8) Okay, I will show the Comic. 600 Rounds of Blasts. A lot of fire power in a short time.
Neither the scan nor the video say anything about being as hot as the sun. Where are you getting that information?
9) and 10) I am not saying you cannot detect my position. You just have no knowledge what your running into or how our team is set up. Those are huge military advantages.
What is it about your team that we will not be able to detect? Even ignoring Psylocke's TP, which you seem to enjoy doing, I can still pick out your exact location, surroundings, even emotions. What is so game-changing about "how your team is set up" that our team cannot detect?
And since Psylocke can read your team's minds, it's a moot point, anyway.
As for Wolverine and Daken Charging in, thats what they do! Punisher shot Daken to hell, fortunately Daken was hit by weaker weapons than what I am packing.
Totally different situation. Osborn's agents had Punisher trapped, so Daken was willing to play around with him. Punisher also has better marksmanship feats than I've seen from your team thus far. This "battle in a foreign land" scenario is far more similar to a situation like the Siege of Asgard, where Daken fought to kill as quickly as possible, taking down scores of Asgardian soldiers. Against a relatively unknown team in a relatively unknown environment, Daken won't play around like he does when he's comfortable.
Wolverine... are you serious? This guy relies in 70% of showings on tanking attacks with his healing factor.
But this is X-Force Wolverine, who has the advantage of being teamed with Psylocke. 3rd panel: "Smart Bets tells me to calm down." Betsy keeps Logan fighting smarter and calmer.
And he might tank attacks a lot, but he isn't stupid. He and Daken aren't going to look at the alien mines, (whose function Psylocke can pull out of your team's heads), and just run right through them anyway. They'll go around or let EVA destroy the mines or let Warren fly them over the laser net or etc. There are plenty of options.
@esquire: @diredrill: So now... you guys are changing your entire Prep and first strike cause you both know it failed against my argument? Do we get reset buttons here when your plan fails?
No, we have a new plan because you have a new team. We were debating against LSSH and CadenceV2, now we're debating against Cadence and Floopay. Different characters and therefore a different strategy. Our LSSH strategy is still workable, but it was made for a different team. Since Psylocke gives us essentially full knowledge of your team, we naturally won't employ the same tactics when better ones are available.
Also yes I want proof. Electra is a very weak Telepath, barely one. Show me proof that Drow will be fooled with their senses and Magic head honchos by mere TP and Holo Cubes.
Elektra is still capable of illusion casting, and neither Psylocke nor Fantomex are weak. Neither is Misdirection "mere TP." And we also have Shriek's sonic deceptions and Daken's pheromones to make things even more believable. Again, you're using loaded and inaccurate words ("mere" TP) and ignoring abilities (sonics, pheromones). It's just bad debating form.
Give me reasons that the Drow will fare better against Fantomex than Jean Grey and Charles Xavier did.
Scans of Elektra. Illusions, mindreading as a child, mind control:
Gallery
I think I can rustle up some more if you want them.
@esquire: @floopay Well in my defese I "Fit" the rules. It said not over Mach 1 in speed. She is not. She has a Power that lets here for a split second hit Mach 5 to dodge and quick counter. In no way can she maintain this speed.
If say someone has a special move to use Rocket boots for a Bull charge at super speeds, its in the described rules. Its a move, one of her powers.
@cadencev2: Temporary boosts are still illegal. Read the rules, your character clearly does not "FIT" the rules. Rocket boots that put you above mach 1 would be illegal even if it were a special move, how do you not understand this? This isn't the first time that you have blatantly violated rules due to the general lack of knowledge of your characters. Given that your judgement is already highly suspect, we may need to more closely scrutinize your entries in future tourneys.
You did not smack down anything. You failed to conclusively disprove anything that we stated. You bluster and bluff and hope that people will fall for it. Mitchell is Alien Tech so every feat he has is manipulating alien tech, Bamsky! The Haitian's power have been defeated by not 1 but 2 low level telepaths, Bamsky! Your team isn't in anyway hiding from us because we actually have superior detection in the form of scanners, bats, telepathy, superhuman smell, machine senses, and superhuman hearing, Bamsky! Drow are xenophobic and you have no way to hide your identity while our team does, Bamsky! Even allowing for the Haitian's powers to work as advertised and Mitchell's to not work as advertised we can still kill your team with little trouble, Bamsky! Even with illegal characters, our team can still defeat your inferior strategy, Bamsky!
@esquire: @floopay Well in my defese I "Fit" the rules. It said not over Mach 1 in speed. She is not. She has a Power that lets here for a split second hit Mach 5 to dodge and quick counter. In no way can she maintain this speed.
Read what you just wrote.
"It said not over Mach 1 in speed...She has a Power that lets here for a split second hit Mach 5..."
That's all you need to know right there. Limit is Mach 1, she can move in a Mach 5 burst. It's really that simple. She breaks the rules.
And even if that somehow were not enough, Barriers clearly break the Telekinesis and Similar Powers limit of 5 tons. Liara breaks multiple rules, and if Aria can make Barriers as you claim, then she breaks the TK limits, too. Both should be disqualified, especially Liara.
If say someone has a special move to use Rocket boots for a Bull charge at super speeds, its in the described rules. Its a move, one of her powers.
That move would break the rules, assuming the super speeds are faster than Mach 1. You can't move faster than Mach 1. That's the rule. Nothing more, nothing less. If you have a character moving above mach 1, regardless of whether it's temporarily or using an item or if it's their permanent speed, it's illegal. Simple as that.
@esquire: @floopay Well in my defese I "Fit" the rules. It said not over Mach 1 in speed. She is not. She has a Power that lets here for a split second hit Mach 5 to dodge and quick counter. In no way can she maintain this speed.
Read what you just wrote.
"It said not over Mach 1 in speed...She has a Power that lets here for a split second hit Mach 5..."
That's all you need to know right there. Limit is Mach 1, she can move in a Mach 5 burst. It's really that simple. She breaks the rules.
And even if that somehow were not enough, Barriers clearly break the Telekinesis and Similar Powers limit of 5 tons. Liara breaks multiple rules, and if Aria can make Barriers as you claim, then she breaks the TK limits, too. Both should be disqualified, especially Liara.
If say someone has a special move to use Rocket boots for a Bull charge at super speeds, its in the described rules. Its a move, one of her powers.
That move would break the rules, assuming the super speeds are faster than Mach 1. You can't move faster than Mach 1. That's the rule. Nothing more, nothing less. If you have a character moving above mach 1, regardless of whether it's temporarily or using an item or if it's their permanent speed, it's illegal. Simple as that.
Holy Hell Esquire my friend.
Psylock's TK is faster than Mach Speeds yes? It is as fast as Thought. What about EVA! EVA is near Light speed and a sentient thing!
There goes 2 guys on your team that break the Speed Rule! Fantomex due to EVA and Psylock due to how fast she can move her team via TK.
So I fail to see the difference. It is a Biotic Move on her self for a Split second attack.
Really fail to see the difference.
@floopay This is getting mind boggling. Can I get a rulling on this.
Since Psylock TK can potentially move characters past Mach 1 like Liaras Biotics and EVA is near Light Speed Travel device for Fantomex, I like him to be disqualified if I am.
Show me evidence of Psylocke using her TK to boost her speed to above mach 1. Show me her flying at above mach 1. You'll notice that even if she could, we have not used her telekinesis in such a way in this battle. I've never seen EVA fly at lightspeed, you have something proving that? Even if you have a scan of this, again you'll note that we have not used her powers in such a way. You specifically referenced and used Liara's illegal powers and ultimately this is the difference. We would have been okay with her had you simply not used those powers that make her illegal. We have no violated any rules because we have not used any powers that are illegal. We could allow the use of Liara if you did not use Barriers or her Biotic Speed Boost as those are clearly illegal.
You got her disqualified, not us.
See what happens when people call you on your bluffs and blusters.
Here is the part I find most hilarious, even with your illegal powers and us acquiescing to your ridiculous power limitations, our team strategy still destroys your team with little effort. You haven't even brought up a counter because you don't have one.
Okay, can I get the scan of where she is moving at Mach 5?
Holding back 100 tons of water does not make a TK feat above 5 tons. I can disprove that with match and physics, I'd like to see the scan to get the context behind it before I make a ruling.
I'll make a rebuttal after said scans are provided.
@floopay: This is her using her barrier to hold at least "100 tons of Ocean Pressure" as per Cadencev2's suggestion. She isn't just holding it back, she also displaced it. You may have gotten away with just holding back but displacement requires more. This was after apparently shrugging off 6 missiles which breaks the Extended Durability rule as well as the at least steel construction of the ship couldn't even do that.
This is her using her biotics to amp herself to "Supersonic Speed" as per CadenceV2 suggestion.
So this really comes down to whether or not @cadencev2 is outright lying about his characters abilities or his characters are illegal. I'll let you decide, is Cadence full of crap or using illegal abilities. He brought up the illegal use of power, not us. Either way, this makes everything he has suggested suspect.
@floopay: This is her using her barrier to hold at least "100 tons of Ocean Pressure" as per Cadencev2's suggestion. She isn't just holding it back, she also displaced it. You may have gotten away with just holding back but displacement requires more. This was after apparently shrugging off 6 missiles which breaks the Extended Durability rule as well as the at least steel construction of the ship couldn't even do that.
This is her using her biotics to amp herself to "Supersonic Speed" as per CadenceV2 suggestion.
So this really comes down to whether or not @cadencev2 is outright lying about his characters abilities or his characters are illegal. I'll let you decide, is Cadence full of crap or using illegal abilities. He brought up the illegal use of power, not us. Either way, this makes everything he has suggested suspect.
The speed feat doesn't look like it breaks the rules to be completely honest. She could accomplish the same feat at 100 mph or lower.
As for the ocean feat, that ship is still taking damage. IIRC the highest ocean pressure gets to is about 7 tons of pressure on Earth. Considering the ship's hull is being compromised I doubt it's anywhere near the 100 tons it's being made out to be. As for the missile, I don't know anything about that scenario. It looks like her shield is static, and the missile should explode when it comes into contact with any sort of barrier. I don't see why an armor piercing round, which is designed to penetrate barriers, wouldn't go through it. Unless a feat can be provided that says otherwise.
At least as far as I've quantified, I think Cadence might be blowing feats a bit above what they are. It's a classic claims > feats presented.
@floopay: So CadenceV2 is full of crap, good to know.
As I said, we did not initiate the use of exaggerated feats. We merely wanted clarification on just what Liara was capable of doing.
@cadencev2: Do you see now, how scans are a waste of time in any civilized debate? You have lied more with scans than I have without scans. No wonder you rely on scans so much, you debate too much in bad faith to be able to trust anything anyone says in a civilized debate. Though you are probably going to get real defensive, your genetically honed stubbornness will kick in and you will continue debating in bad faith anyways.
Either way, you have yet to produce any defense against our current attack strategy.
Sylar doesn't eat brains: Confirmed in season 3, but it is suggested that he might eat them in Season 1, but never confirmed why he takes the brain.
Superpowers existing within the brain:
You are drastically overstating this. The whole "All powers exist within the brain" is true. It's directly stated in Heroes. However, EVERYTHING exists within the brain was the guy's point. Your brain regulates how you breath, how you feel, tells you to move your fingers, type a word, etc. etc.
Everything a person does is regulated by their conscious, subconscious, and their automatic brain functions. Cutting off a regenerator's head, will cause permanent damage to their brain in the Marvel Universe. This is directly stated by Weasel in Cable & Deadpool. It's also shown that decapitation can render a regenerator completely inert. Stating that superpowers don't exist within the brain in Marvel is like stating they don't need their brain to breath, talk, eat, or draw things. Do you know how Sylar's power works? He can figure anything out by disassembling it, that's what intuitive aptitude is explained as. So he takes apart a person's brain, figures out what part of the brain is responsible for their powers, and then his brain learns to mimic that.
The part of the brain responsible for powers is probably located somewhere near the brain stem. The basis for this theory comes from Claire, Peter, and Sylar being "killed" by having an object forcibly penetrated into that part of the brain. It is also shown that when Sylar examines Claire's brain while bleeding out, and while he's looking for where her powers are located, that he finds it right around where the brain stem is located. However, nonetheless, the point of this statement is that all bodily functions are located in the brain or consciousness. With the exception of those who exist without their body, everybody requires their brain to function, to state otherwise is ridiculous.
The Haitian
The Haitian had one word read out of his mind after Matt Parkman focused as hard as he could, while the Haitian was putting zero effort into his power negation field (which it has been shown that he can strain himself and focus on it more if needed) and after nearly giving himself an aneurysm (based on the blood vessel he popped doing it) he obtained a single word. At this point Parkman's powers were out of control, but he was still capable of reading a dozen or more thoughts at once, and probing into people's minds and digging out anything he wanted. However, when the Haitian was aware of Parkman's presence, he has always been able to fully negate his powers.
In fact, the Haitian has only ever been beaten by one person, which is one heck of a track record.
Power Suppression
I have seen heroes multiple times, and I have read the graphic novels and the comics (I am using the comic/tv series version, which are both from the same continuity). His memory manipulation and his power suppression have never been linked. In fact, the exact opposite has been all but stated. The Haitian requires touch to manipulate somebodies mind specifically, this has been shown over and over again. However, he can mind wipe a dozen people without touching them by using his power, and he can negate powers without even being aware there is a power user present.
Heck, Peter Petreli had to consciously turn off the Power Negation field, because he had unknowingly cancelled Claire's power when she had cut herself with a knife. Again, it's a field with a minimum of a 15 meter radius (based on Matt Parkman spying on the Haitian outside of Primatech Paper Co.
The Haitian Mind Wipes an Village
This is while he was a kid, and couldn't fully control his powers:
Gallery
Spike Spiegel
Spike has the special bullet crafted by Jet for his Contender. This bullet was made of a special material that halted the aging of an individual, and gave them immortality. They were capable of regenerating from any wound, including a bullet to the brain. However, this special bullet was able to completely reverse these abilities, and forcibly aged the individual (Wen) backwards until he died of old age in about 10 seconds (if not less).
If he manages to land one of these shots on any of the regenerators, he could very well kill them.
Artemis Entreri
How the heck is Mitchell Hundred or Shriek affecting Artemis's equipment? This couldn't even be exploded by someone who was able to explode magical equipment with their mind. It's also primitive, something neither of those characters has any power over.
Deadpool
Deadpool will be impossible to locate with any telepathic abilities. He was able to resist Savior Cable's telepathic intrusion, who would mind wipe all of the characters here with less than a thought, so I doubt they'll locate him that way. He can also teleport anywhere in the battlefield at will thanks to his teleporter, and his movements will be impossible to track because of his chaotic nature. Both Shriek and Mitchell can attempt to use his equipment as much as possible, but I don't see why he wouldn't take them out with throwing knives, grenades, or with his katanas first.
He's fast enough to get out his throwing weapons almost instantly. Even Wolverine and Fantomex were hesitant to confront him when he pulled his gun on them in Uncanny X-Force.
@floopay: Seriously the most Pressure under the ocean is only 7 tons? I watch a episode of the Pacific Trench on discovery and they reached up to 100 something tons before the mini sub explorer popped.
@cadencev2: Do you see now, how scans are a waste of time in any civilized debate? You have lied more with scans than I have without scans. No wonder you rely on scans so much, you debate too much in bad faith to be able to trust anything anyone says in a civilized debate. Though you are probably going to get real defensive, your genetically honed stubbornness will kick in and you will continue debating in bad faith anyways.
Either way, you have yet to produce any defense against our current attack strategy.
No not really, because of the scans we have determine the proof of claims just as I showed the proof through "scans" how you blew up your Technopath character.
Also you were, not surprising, wrong on Heros characters all being Psychics.
Wow, scans made everything clearer. Take notes, as you seem to failed to see that. Instead of talking out of ones butt about claims.
@cadencev2: Total Pressure, yes 100 tons (actually hundreds of times above that number). However, the most it would reach is about 15k psi. Which is the number that really matters.
I'm not making their argument for them, as I can see several instances for both teams winning, I will only be debating the reasons why I think our teams stand a better chance.
I'm thinking it's best to split our teams into two squads.
Squadron 1: Team Tech
Doom Guy
Spike Spiegel
Predator
The Haitian
Artemis Entreri
T-800
Squadron 2: Team Power
Liara
Deadpool
Aria
Reason:
Depowered team will be rendered immune to all telepathic assault (thanks to the Haitian). Over and above this, they are all remarkable trackers and most of them can handle stealth pretty well.
Powered team has a remarkable combo of TK and abilities. Deadpool has his teleporter, and Liara/Aria have their biotics. The two probably the best for a surprise assault, as they can all handle multitudes of opponents simultaneously.
Both teams can coordinate well together, thanks to comm links, and should be able to take the enemy from multiple angles.
We are splitting on 2 squads. Saqud 1 will move forward with care. Doom Guys Map Device will allow us to navigate the area while T-800 and Predator use their X-Ray, Heat, Motion, and Sound Scanners to locate your team a mile away.
Hatian will keep a field over us as we progress meaning Psylocks Telepathy is out as well the Technopathy.
Squad 2 will follow close behind in the Hatians Field. Both asari adding their Omni Tool Scanners for any tech being used. Looking at Shriek, EVA, and Mysterio tech being scanned.
When the battle starts, it is us who will have the Ambush on our side.
Squad 1 will charge for the attack with the superb Physicals, Doom Guy popping a Beserker Stim. All out guys have natural insane stats.
Squad 2 will use Singularities, Stasis, and Biotic Attacks to take out whole swaths of your troops.
Many guys like Daken and Wolverine can have their Healing Factors Canceled by Artimes weapons and both Asari with Warp.
Both T-800 and Predator can see through any Holocubes Mysterio uses.
Meanwhile Deadpool is Teleporting attacks all the VIP Targets that the Asari team miss.
Game over. We have a effective counter to everything you have.
I'm thinking it's best to split our teams into two squads.
Squadron 1: Team Tech
Doom Guy
Spike Spiegel
Predator
The Haitian
Artemis Entreri
T-800
Squadron 2: Team Power
Liara
Deadpool
Aria
Reason:
Depowered team will be rendered immune to all telepathic assault (thanks to the Haitian). Over and above this, they are all remarkable trackers and most of them can handle stealth pretty well.
Powered team has a remarkable combo of TK and abilities. Deadpool has his teleporter, and Liara/Aria have their biotics. The two probably the best for a surprise assault, as they can all handle multitudes of opponents simultaneously.
Both teams can coordinate well together, thanks to comm links, and should be able to take the enemy from multiple angles.
We are splitting on 2 squads. Saqud 1 will move forward with care. Doom Guys Map Device will allow us to navigate the area while T-800 and Predator use their X-Ray, Heat, Motion, and Sound Scanners to locate your team a mile away.
Hatian will keep a field over us as we progress meaning Psylocks Telepathy is out as well the Technopathy.
Squad 2 will follow close behind in the Hatians Field. Both asari adding their Omni Tool Scanners for any tech being used. Looking at Shriek, EVA, and Mysterio tech being scanned.
When the battle starts, it is us who will have the Ambush on our side.
Squad 1 will charge for the attack with the superb Physicals, Doom Guy popping a Beserker Stim. All out guys have natural insane stats.
Squad 2 will use Singularities, Stasis, and Biotic Attacks to take out whole swaths of your troops.
Many guys like Daken and Wolverine can have their Healing Factors Canceled by Artimes weapons and both Asari with Warp.
Both T-800 and Predator can see through any Holocubes Mysterio uses.
Meanwhile Deadpool is Teleporting attacks all the VIP Targets that the Asari team miss.
Game over. We have a effective counter to everything you have.
Artemis's Weapon
To clarify, it doesn't "Cancel" healing factors. They can still regenerator their flesh and blood. However, every attack he makes will not only regenerate his flesh, blood, and soul, but it will also consume his enemies soul bit by bit everytime he strikes them. It doesn't just "kill" his enemies, it absorbs their very life force.
I can provide a dozen or more scans for you if you'd like. This thing is said to deliver unbearable pain, making trained guards scream in agony, and making monsters writhe in discomfort. As he states, it's not just content with wounding, or even killing. It has to completely destroy them, make it as though they hadn't even existed.
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Deadpool:
Deadpool actually is almost impossible to detect with sensors. He has some sort of cloaking devices in his standard costume, but it's never fully explained where it comes from. This extends all the way back to his first appearance against Garrison Kane and Cable, all the way to modern era.
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His teleportation device has never been used in combat, but he frequently uses it outside of combat, and to teleport directly to his opponents. Here's him using it to teleport away from Siryn and to teleport away from the Hulk.
The reason I provided more than just the teleportation scans is that this is also a good showing of Deadpool's combat skills. He is able to take on a depowered Hulk here (he's still very powerful, don't take the words depowered too much to heart), while he himself is depowered.
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But I think his greatest advantage is his chaotic fighting style. Even when completely depowered, he was able to defeat Taskmaster, even after losing a finger. Taskmaster says it's impossible for someone to defy order the way Deadpool does. His chaotic nature will make him impossible to track (not only via cloaking device, and via telepathic immunity), but impossible to predict.
Also it should be noted Deadpool teleports only a few minutes prior to the last scan. He can teleport without much limit on it's cooldown, but he's never used it in combat. The only limitation shown so far is it's batteries seemed to be drained when he teleported across the planet to South America to steal a weapon from Holocaust, and then teleported twice thereafter.
Spike Spiegel
Spike also has extremely high situational awareness. He easily dodges bullets, and even with headphones on and being completely deaf he humiliates his opponents.
He can easily knock out a human being with a single kick to the face, and easily overwhelm opponents. He has extreme precision and can fight even when deaf.
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Over and above this he can take on a small army of trained opponents with the equipment I've given him.
Watch 0:30-4:30
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Spike shoots Wen (Repost)
Repost Reason - This is the special bullet I was talking about. It was created specifically for Wen, but by the description given by Jet, it should work on any regenerator or immortal. As it essentially reverses their immortality.
Wen is a child in form, but realistically he's an immortal. I forget how old he is, but he's pretty much unkillable. Spike crafts a special bullet designed to kill him, and from a pretty decent distance, is able to shoot him dead center of his forehead. This is done with Spike's Contender, which is a pretty decent weapon as far as accurate is concerned, and is more suited for longer ranged attacks. Wen could have easily ended Spike, I have no doubts on that, and I won't debate that. But with his huberis, he though himself unkillable, and that Spike wouldn't be able to kill him. This is more of a feat for his distance shot than anything.
Jump to 3:30-5:00 - You can watch the rest, but it's hard to enjoy out of context.
Doom Guy is fast as hell. His Sprint is in the 30 MPH speed.
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Just watch the first 6 seconds! This guy is insane fast.
She also has Durability out the a$$.
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1) Dom Guy takes a Fire Ball to the face.
2-3) Doom Guy in tackcled and falls 30 feet into a batch of Burning Radioactive Goo. Hes fine.
Doom Guy security Armor can take Chain Gun Fire for a short period.
His strength on the beserker Stim is also insane. The Beserker Stim grants him easy 1 ton strength and fully heals any and all injuries when it is popped.
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Punches through Demon Imps that are stronger than Men. Kicks down a Concrete Wall.
To finish it up he has insane skill with aiming. He can pick a target off with the shotgun at 200 feet away. As a player of the game, you just aim in the general direction of the target and Doom Guy hits it.
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1-2) Doom guy enters a pitch black room, using the Shot Gun Blasts as light he takes out all the demons.
3) Doom Guy dodges attacks and blasts with Plasma Rifle.
4) Doom Guy dodges blast and uses BFG on the Cyber Demon.
Doom Guy has the stats and Skills to be one of the major contenders in this match.
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The whole Doom Guy comic. This guy on a daily beses runs through Hell filled with hundreds of pissed off Demons and Zombies, murdering them all.
How do you explain Sylar being able to empathically mimic Elle's powers? He was able to empathize with her and gain her electricity powers. No opening her up, just share the same emotion or more to the point share the same neurochemical balance. But this requires that he maintain that empathy unlike Peter who gets to retain it, hence the desire to take Peter's power in season 1. Sylar opens up the brain because he has to do so to keep the power. When Sylar decided he wanted to keep her power he opened up Elle's brain but Elle projects her power through her hands so why did he not open up her hands? If her powers were not psionic then he would have needed to open up her hands and figure out how her hands can shoot electricity. But this was not the case, he went for the brain because that is where the power exists. What I mean by Heroes powers come from the brain is that the entire apparatus that allows the power to work is located in the brain. Elle's electricity powers are located directly in her brain.
We know from the U-Men that the powers of Mutants are actually located in the place that emits them. The U-men transplant parts of mutants onto themselves and gain their powers. If a mutant can shoot lasers out of their eyes, they simply take the eyes out and put them in the U-men. The power isn't located in the brain but in the eyes themselves. Now psionic powers are located in the brain so those powers cannot simply be taken which is why No-Girl is instead put in a jar.
You misunderstand why putting the stick in the brainstem worked, it is not because that is where Claire's powers are located but because that is where her autonomic nervous system is located. As long as the stick is firmly within her brainstem, she can't breath, her heart won't pump, and if none of those things are happening then she can't regenerate. Sylar later gains shapeshifting powers and gains the ability to move his brain stem around thus removing that weakness. Oddly enough, this form of attack would actually also work on Wolverine or Deadpool as both of them require these things to function but Wolverine's brainstem is protected by Adamantium so it can't be performed. I rewatched the scene where Sylar steals her powers and he only has the top of her head cut off so the brainstem would be completely inaccessible this explains my point. Your theory that her powers are in the brainstem is officially debunked.
Matt was still able to get through his power and Parkman is a lightweight telepathically compared to the Omega Level Telepath that Psylocke is. Psylocke will push through with ease. Given that the Haitain even has the power to block telepathy even when out of his range should tell you that his powers are telepathic. You also can't really use that scene to establish range for the Haitian's field because we don't know how far out of his range Matt was since he was obviously out of his range. His powers have only ever been found to work within a fairly close range. Unless you have a feat proving that range, you can't make that claim.
CadenceV2, the Haitian won't stop Mitchell's power from working until you have shown these two things to be incorrect.
The Haitian has ZERO power over technology so it will be COMPLETELY USELESS against Mitchell's powers.
Even suggesting that it will, the Haitian's powers have only shown to resist telepathy if it used outside of his field.
I know you can't because I have watched every episode of the Heroes and I know the Haitain has only ever shown the ability to resist telepathy from being used outside his field. If Elle were to bullseye him with a shot of lightning from outside his field he would be killed. The Haitian doesn't stop powers from entering his field he only stops powers from working while in his field. As long as Mitchell is outside the field using Shriek's sound amplification, the Haitian won't stop his powers from working. Floopay, honestly, tell Cadence that Mitchell's powers will still effect everything in the field as long as he is not within it. He is making your team look very foolish.
Contender Bullet
Your Contender Bullet Theory is also completely wrong as that bullet will only work on Wen. Jet explains it as such: When the gate exploded, a coordinate system was created from the resulting twists in hyperspace—a kind of singularity that drew in vast amounts of energy, enclosing and crystallizing them into a single faceted stone. The gem that makes up ring. The same energy broke Wen’s circadian rhythm. His pineal body continually produces a substance like melatonin that inhibits aging. That’s the theory in a nutshell. It will be the same as any other bullet if fired at someone not suffering from Wen's specific condition. My team is the only one here with a means of killing a regenerator.
Artemis
I never suggested that I could explode his equipment. I suggested that I could explode Deadpool and Spike's Grenades which would likely catch the Haitian and Artemis in the ensuing blast.
Deadpool
How does he know where we are? He doesn't have superhuman senses so how does he find us to teleport to us? Even barring that, the second he is within a mile of Mitchell his grenades, his guns, and his teleporter will tell us exactly where he is. He can't hide from us as long as he has that teleporter in his hand. You think he can sneak up on us? The second he gets within range, Mitchell can cause his grenades to explode destroying his teleporter and temporarily cripple him allowing Daken to go in for the kill. Deadpool teleporting makes him a liability. You may as well have gift wrapped him for us.
@cadencev2, first you get onto us for changing strategies and now you are changing strategies? Hypocrite much?
You seem to think that your team be able to use the comm links to communicate when Mitchell will have shut those down from the beginning. With Shriek's sound dampening in effect, your team can't even talk to one another. Deadpool and Liara and Aria are now not disconnected to the rest of your team which means they have no sensors beyond their Omnitools. This is when the bats we have following you activate their Holocube and renders their omnitools invisible. The great part about being in the Menzoberranzen is that there are tons of bats flying around so you won't be able to pick out ours from any other bats. No omnitools means that Archangel can hit Liara and Aria with his neurotoxic flechettes. I really have to thank you for separating your guys. You'll note that Archangel and our bats did not get used in our strategy allowing them to function here without issue. Archangel will have hidden himself among the nesting bats. Heat and X-Ray would only reveal a bunch of bats up there.
Now that you are coming to our Drow, they will begin with hitting your guys with Globes of Darkness, the Haitian has zero effect on magic so they'll blind your whole team and kill those that can be killed. Globes of Darkness are impenetrable magical darkness so lights won't dispel them. Globes are a basic attack of most Drow so they'll lead with it. All of the kills you rack up against them will only force the ruling house to declare war. You now have an entire city actively hunting you down. You ready to kill 32,000 people including high end wizards that can simply make your team die with a point of a finger? Killing any Drow, plays right into our hands. Remember it is 5 miles to Narbondel from Tier Breche and you are on foot walking through enemy territory. You really made this so much easier for us by leaving your base.
You hide, you die buried under tons of rock. You come for us, you get killed by the Drow. Either way, you have countered nothing. Your team still dies while our team gets out without taking any damage.
@diredrill@esquireThis thread got ugly, my vote goes to Esquire and Diredrill. ignoring all the ugliness they had made some good strategic points, I thought it was commonly accepted knowledge that what the Haitian did was considered a limited form of telepathy as well. Diredrill even gave the example of No-Girl but I've even seen Emma shut off Hope's powers by hacking her brain.
What really hurt was that Cadance spent too much time showing feats and had very little strategy and Floopay didn't invest much into the thread.
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