Fernus vs Thanos & Darkseid

vs

Fernus vs Thanos & Darkseid

Pre New 52 DC characters, current Thanos.

Victory by KO, Incapacitation or Death.

Team without a lot of difficulty.

Thanos

Darkseid

Fernus / MMH

Other possibly interested people.

What has Fernus done to be on this level

Either solo together they stomp

Thanos solos.

@eternityx: @thanosii: @apocalypse3: @hulkman123:

I don't know a lot about Fernus, but I've been told by a couple of top debaters on this site, that he's significantly above Thanos and that he easily subdued the JL.

I don't think this is a stomp either way.

team

@theking47: Sorry but this really is a stomp in the team's favour. Fernus could beat Darkseid in a 1 on 1 fight but Thanos is a character Fernus simply can't fairly compete with. At best MMH is comparable to a Marvel Herald level character like The Silver Surfer and Thanos made mincemeat of Surfer in the past. With Darkseid as back up, Fernus has absolutely no chance of beating the team.

Team stomps.

Thanos solo's, Darkseid would most likely loose 1 on 1; so Darkseid watches in his chair.

@lvenger:

Interesting, I should really read more about Fernus.

There's a respect thread for all of MMH's feats on this link: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/saren/blog/martian-manhunter-respect-thread/85677/

But if it's just Fernus you want to look into, his appearances can be found from JLA #83-89.

@lvenger:

Thanks, I think I'll get the issues.

@lvenger: Interesting, but @killemall did say yesterday that Fernus is above Thanos by a considerable margin.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/battle-3-of-series-powerhouses-vs-telepath-powerho-1592293/?messageId=12604637#js-message-37

I find the view on his power level interesting. I think Fernus could beat Thanos.

I'm not bound by Killemall's opinion on this matter. Nor do I defer to it this time around. Fernus' only chance of winning is telepathically and though Thanos does not have many TP offensive feats, he has some great TP resistance feats. Enough to pose a serious challenge for Manhunter's TP to get through. In terms of physicality, energy projection and versatility, Thanos is above Fernus in those categories. Besides, Dondave has also argued that Fernus is not an amp of MMH, only a less morals version and MMH is generally agreed by debaters on here to possess at a high Herald power level. And Thanos has beaten Herald level characters before with ease. Not to mention he just stomped The Annihilators so it's not as if he's without high tier teambusting feats of his own.

@lvenger: I'm aware you differ, which is why I said.

I recall kindly asking you not to do this before, dragging my name and my opinion on a debate specially against 2 characters who have never met and arent even likely to meet.

While i am still a firm believer that Fernus is more powerful than Thanos, i do not think my opinion should dictate anything in battle forums.

@killemall: @frozen:

So, who do you two think wins here?

@theking47: Team should win handily. I personally think Fernus could take either of the 2 alone, together is a different story.

@killemall: Apologies, I just wanted your opinion on this matchup/where Fernus stands.

@killemall:

I don't understand how you think Fernus beat Thanos, is it the telpathy?

@eternityx: He did beat the JLA rather easily, and stomped 35 White Martians.

But Thanos was going to annihilate the Annihilators and he's faced off against Odin, Tyrant, Galactus, Omega, Inbetweener, Kosmos, WM Thor with the Power gem and more, these are cosmic powerhouses who couldn't put Thanos down.

Also, could I see him beating the White Martians, I'm just interested in how he did it, I've seen him talk about the fact that he did it though.

Team stomps.

Thanos solo, dont know about Darkseid

@frozen: All right then I'll change our topic. Assuming Fernus can't beat Thanos telepathically, how does he win?

Also, I have to question some unclear reasoning on your part. You think Fernus can beat Thanos yet seem to be indicating that Darkseid's presence makes some kind of vital difference. Why would Fernus beat the most powerful being out of the team here and lose to the weaker foe? It doesn't make sense given that Darkseid is much weaker than Thanos.

Team should win easily.

Thanos solos, team stomp

@lvenger: Firstly, I do think Fernus can beat Thanos via telepathy, without that, his phasing will give Thanos problems, and could possibly remove his heart (though he used matter manipulation to counter Vision's intangibility), Fernus' speed will give Thanos problems.

Secondly, Darkseid can act as a distraction, moreover with access to full physicals, Darkseid would lose to Fernus individually.

Vision's phazing did nothing to Thanos and it in fact looks like Thanos just swatted him away.

Not only that, but it also looks like Thanos could just create a force field around Fernus, or himself, that he can't phaze through.

Speed is easily dealt with by AoE attacks and, in fact, Thanos has reacted to quite a few speedsters and fast objects speeding at him.

@frozen: I agree that Fernus' TP will give Thanos problems but unlike Darkseid, Thanos has legitimate TP resistance feats to high tier telepaths and mental beings. That's why it's doubtful to me that Manhunter can win by sheer TP alone, especially when his foe is so powerful and versatile. As for phasing, someone who has replied to your post above has pointed out that Thanos has dealt with phase shifters before. And speed against Thanos only delays the inevitable, especially when unlike Thor, Thanos has the durability and shields to endure a potent speedblitz.

Normally I'd agree on your second point to but you seem to be swinging back and forth. Assuming Fernus does beat Thanos, what is Darkseid going to do to beat him? If Fernus were to beat someone with vastly superior feats to Darkseid i.e Thanos, what chance would Darkseid have against that being?

@lvenger: I feel like saving alot of my post for CA1.

In regards to phasing, I did acknowledge the Vision feat, however it seems that Thanos countered with his own matter manipulation, whereas Fernus overall is on a higher physical level, he'll certainly struggle with the combat speed Fernus possess. What mskes Fernus deadllier is that he mixed his powers well, e.g when he blitzed 6 White Martians, two were incapitated via phasing and then another 4 blitzed. I do also believe removing his heart can damage him (as Drax ripped out his heart). The argument isn't blitzing him either, his speed will make him elusive.

And as I said, I don't think Fernus will simply fight either individually. The two have a similar poweset, to which they can both utilize against Fernus.

Drax gets powered up around Thanos, and in the Thanos Imperative, an Anti-Matter bomb reduced Thanos to a skeleton and he regenerated in a single panel.

Thanos can create the Anti-Intangibility forcefields around himself or Fernus as I have shown.

Also, I don't think removing his heart will do anything anymore; total disintegration does nothing to him.

@laflux: I'm aware, but that's not the point. My point was that removing a vital organ (his heart) does damage him.

@eternityx: Are you sure removing his heart does absoloutely nothing? If this is indeed the case, then why did Drax rip his heart out?

I also disagree in regards to speed, while Thanos does result in tagging his opponent, he has also IIRC briefly struggled to tag a faster opponent.

Fernus.

Team loses. Neither of them can react to Fernus nor can they put him down.

I don't believe that the Omega Beams can do squat against him anyways

This was before he was brought back and made more powerful as well as being made immortal.

Plus, it doesn't look like he had any organs when destroyed above.

Thanos from the Thanos Imperative had better feats than during Annihilation. Using feats from the previous story to determine how Thanos would react especially when he had better feats in the latter is faulty IMO. Espicially when dying from having your heart ripped out, then Regeneration from being atomized to a skeleton is a huge discrepancy in healing capabilities, and Drax essentially was a plot device to take Thanos down in the first place.

Not sure how this battle goes TBH.

@laflux: As I'm on my phone, a few points.

Firstly, judging from the Imperative scan, his organs are still intact, as you can visibly see them in the first scan.

Secondly, that said, the Drax insance was different, his vital organ which helped him function was removed, which stopped Thanos, the Anti-Matter bomb was not as precise in targeting him.

Thirdly, Drax may be a plot device, however the killing blow was not.

Actually, yes they can.

Gallery

Also, they kill him by hitting him with planet busting shots.

@frozen: I only really see his intestines. But lets say his heart did survive. Thanos was unkillable as of the Thanos imperative. So while removing his heart may harm him (it is a physical attack I guess, and Thanos does get harmed by physical attacks), I doubt it will do any significant damage.

Also How is Fernus going to get to his heart. Phasing is unlikely to work, both MMH and Vision utilize density control in phasing, and Thanos completely negated Vision.

@eternityx: invisibility + size alteration + intangibility = they won't be hitting anything

@laflux: Before I make a longer reply, do keep in mind that Fernus can create sentinent fire clones and turn the tides from 2 v 1

Thanos makes him visible again with matter manipulation.

How does Size alteration change anything?

As shown, Thanos can make force fields that can't be phased through.

When Fernus gets close, he gets disintegrated.

Going with the team, but I'd love to read Frozens' upcoming arguments :)

@eternityx: The only person that can matter manipulate Fernus should be J'onn, when Fernus was fused with J'onn, he had full control over all his molecular structure.

okay