#1 Posted by alternative_backup (622 posts) - - Show Bio

Fernus:

vs.

The Silver Surfer:

Who win?

#2 Posted by New_World_Order (12477 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#3 Posted by AllStarSuperman (19908 posts) - - Show Bio

Fernus isnt his telepathy better than SS?

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#4 Posted by alternative_backup (622 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman The Fernus telepathy is amazing, but do not know each other at the same or higher than the Silver Surfer's telepathy.

#5 Posted by Jgames (1616 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver surfer hold his own against Thanos TP so I don't know if it would work

#6 Posted by jojjimbo (2472 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna say SS.

#7 Posted by CaptnMcDeadpool (950 posts) - - Show Bio

@jojjimbo said:

I'm gonna say SS.

I'm gonna agree with you. Silver Surfer was able to go toe to toe with the Runner, who many agree is as fast as Wally West. I think for Fernus to be effective against the Surfer, he would have to be as fast. I have to assume because Fernus is from Martian Manhunter (Fernus was determined by the JLA to be his own separate, unique genetic being apart from Martian Manhunter), Silver Surfer should take this. Speed coupled with massive energy strikes should do the trick. As well, on the high end, Surfer has a nice resistance to TP feat in Infinity Crusade against Moondragon, augmented by the mind gem. Previously, she had taken out Charles Xavier with the same telepathic assault. I think Nu52 MM has a feat of taking out Despero. But Nu52 Despero has no real feats to date indicating the same high caliber TP he did prior to Nu52.

MM has good feats of TP, like against the Joker, from JLA 15 (who as we know is completely insane):

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But he does have his limits as seen against Asmodel...not that that is a bad thing (from JLA Classified 54):

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Is Moondragon with the mind gem on the same level as Asmodel, an angelic rebel of God? *flips coin*

At any rate, the Surfer moves faster than Fernus can think. I'm gonna go with the Surfer on this one.

#8 Edited by jojjimbo (2472 posts) - - Show Bio

@captnmcdeadpool: "Surfer has a nice resistance to TP feat in Infinity Crusade against Moondragon, augmented by the mind gem. Previously, she had taken out Charles Xavier with the same telepathic assault."

Yeah that's the same reason i pick Surfer in this fight.

#9 Edited by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@captnmcdeadpool:

I dunno. Unless specified otherwise we assume in character.

And in character Silver Surfer is a pretty high level jobber.

#10 Posted by GhostRavage (8353 posts) - - Show Bio

If its in character... It could go either way, leaning towards Fernus though. But if its fighting at their best, SS should take it handily.

#11 Posted by Killemall (18250 posts) - - Show Bio

@jgames said:

Silver surfer hold his own against Thanos TP so I don't know if it would work

They have never had a TP battle, and at one time Thanos was immune to TP (thanks to Adam Warlock) unless he let people enter his brain.

Thanos offensively is not as good with TP as Martian Manhunter, defensively though, thanks to Starlin, his telepathic resistance is legendary.

#12 Posted by Saren (25273 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna agree with you. Silver Surfer was able to go toe to toe with the Runner, who many agree is as fast as Wally West.

Mal, we've been over this. There is literally nothing you can present to suggest that Runner is even remotely as fast as Wally West. Given that he is barely even a lightspeeder judging from his humiliation at Makkari's hands, there is really nothing to suggest that he's even as fast as Kid Flash. And if by "Surfer was able to go toe to toe with the Runner", you mean "Surfer got the crap kicked out of him by Runner", we are in complete agreement. Reconciling your need to establish Surfer as Flash's equal in speed with the evidence of Runner exploiting Surfer's non-existent combat speed and deciding that the only logical conclusion is that Runner must be as fast as Flash, lack of any actual evidence be damned? Typical, really.

. I think for Fernus to be effective against the Surfer, he would have to be as fast. I have to assume because Fernus is from Martian Manhunter (Fernus was determined by the JLA to be his own separate, unique genetic being apart from Martian Manhunter), Silver Surfer should take this. Speed coupled with massive energy strikes should do the trick.

The fact that Surfer never uses his speed in 99% of his fights might throw a spanner in those particular works. Again, we've been over this. Aside from your made-up theory that time travel is the fastest reaction speed possible ----even though time travel is an instant BFR, as we have already gone over ---- Surfer has never done anything to suggest his reactions in combat are any faster than someone like Superman's. And given that Clark has something Surfer lacks ----- specifically, countless examples of him actually using his speed in combat ----- putting the Surfer on Superman's level of combat speed might be a little generous.

. As well, on the high end, Surfer has a nice resistance to TP feat in Infinity Crusade against Moondragon, augmented by the mind gem. Previously, she had taken out Charles Xavier with the same telepathic assault.

Moondragon's access to the full power of the Mind Gem was restricted by Adam Warlock from the minute she first received it. For that matter Moondragon with the Mind Gem couldn't do anything to Thor either, while Xavier one-shotted Thor with his telepathy. Thanos also laughed off her "infinite telepathic powers". I also don't know why you'd bring up Infinity Crusade in the context of Surfer's TP resistance when he was mind-controlled in that very same story by the Goddess, but ok.....

But he does have his limits as seen against Asmodel...not that that is a bad thing (from JLA Classified 54):

That is not Asmodel........that is the old god Titus. Asmodel had nothing to do with the JLA after Day of Judgment. They don't even look anything alike. I can understand if you mistook Titus for Kalibak, but Asmodel?

Besides, it's not like Surfer doesn't have limits when it comes to psychic attacks. Just ask Psycho-Man.

Or the Others.

Or Supernalia, in Avengers Annual #11, scans be lacking for that one.

Is Moondragon with the mind gem on the same level as Asmodel, an angelic rebel of God? *flips coin*

Are literally any of the people above even remotely on J'onn's level? No, not really.

I can guarantee you that if we start comparing and contrasting high-end telepathy feats for the two, they will not be in the same league. They won't even be playing the same game. I can show you scans of Martian Manhunter blocking telepathic attacks and manipulating the minds of guys who casually decimate universes. Norrin trying to fend off or take on Fernus in psychic warfare is a losing proposition. And psychic warfare is the first thing Fernus employs. Surfer would have a better chance if his morals were off and he was in anything-goes mode.

At any rate, the Surfer moves faster than Fernus can think. I'm gonna go with the Surfer on this one.

Uh-huh.

Hit me back as soon as you can. It's been boring.

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#13 Edited by alternative_backup (622 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Edited by Killemall (18250 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: I am going to work atm, i can put up the scans from Avengers Annual #11 if you want when i come back. . Annihilation #3 has Wrath Queen TP work just fine on Surfer before he actually physically disconnected the telepathic link. We also have Galactus remove the mental barrier he created inside Surfer in Silver Sufer vol 3, #48.

@alternative_backup: Hehe its always nice to see Bane debate on Surfer because honestly his powers are way over-estimated. I'll keep an eye on this as it goes along :)

#15 Posted by Saren (25273 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

So uh...

...what can Fernus actually do?

#17 Posted by Killemall (18250 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: Ok here you are , this mostly shows Surfer and a lot of heroes, mindcontrolled figting Avenegers and its later revealed they were all being mindcontrolled by Supernalia using a machine called Celestial Mindwave

#18 Posted by Saren (25273 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by MonsterStomp (15803 posts) - - Show Bio

So uh...

...what can Fernus actually do?

He's pretty much a bloodlusted Martain Manhunter.

SS in character wouldn't stand for long. I doubt his TP resistance is good enough to hold off one of DC's most formidable telepaths.

#20 Edited by TDK_1997 (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver Surfer would lose here.

#21 Edited by dondave (34336 posts) - - Show Bio

Fernus

#22 Edited by Rick_Grayson (729 posts) - - Show Bio

Fernus mind rapes 10 / 10

#23 Posted by James_Lockart (347 posts) - - Show Bio

Fernus beats SS.

There is a remarkable pro-Surfer bias that one observes sometimes. All the times that he has been slapped around or defeated are neglected and only his greatest feats are considered as if he does those for breakfast.

Seems to be the case here.

#24 Posted by DarkRaiden (6513 posts) - - Show Bio

I have no real knowledge about Fernus. What can he do to resist matter manipulation down to the subatomic level? What can he do against a black hole or a star busting blast? Does he have a weakness? Because Surfer would know. Is there proof he can affect one on Surfer's level? Are those scans before or after Surfer stated he was immune in the Astral Plane?

#25 Posted by Killemall (18250 posts) - - Show Bio

I have no real knowledge about Fernus. What can he do to resist matter manipulation down to the subatomic level?

Well he is martian manhunter, he has intangibility and shape shifting to help.

What can he do against a black hole

Surfer has never used a black hole in a fight, apart from a fleeting mention of him being able to create one in people's eye.

There is only 1 instance where Surfer creates a black hole, and that wasnt done directly upon anyone just a black hole he created in a vicinity and he simultaneously had to fly away.

Martian Manhunter is fast enough to evade it as well.

Is there proof he can affect one on Surfer's level?

The guy had entire JLA helpless, Surfer TP resistance has never been that high.

Are those scans before or after Surfer stated he was immune in the Astral Plane?

Surfer has never , once, stated he is immune to Astral Planet. An un-named alien was able to suck his energy by coming in contact with him, to prevent this he travels in astral plane as says "you could suck me dry out there but this is the source of my power, you cant harm me here", which normally translates to "you cant drain me here because this is the source of my power" as opposed to "i am immune to telepathy"

Those instances are before In Thy Name, but Surfer has been affected by TP just fine after In Thy Name, during Annihilation # 4

#26 Edited by DarkRaiden (6513 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm...still Surfer resisted Moondragon's TP with the Mindgem, and the intangibility shouldn't really help against the power cosmic as the molecules are still there and whatnot. Until I hear more, I see Surfer winning.

#27 Posted by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: You probably haven't been keeping up with the thread so I will correct you about the Mindgem part as already stated by Citizenbane.

"Moondragon's access to the full power of the Mind Gem was restricted by Adam Warlock from the minute she first received it. For that matter Moondragon with the Mind Gem couldn't do anything to Thor either, while Xavier one-shotted Thor with his telepathy. Thanos also laughed off her "infinite telepathic powers". I also don't know why you'd bring up Infinity Crusade in the context of Surfer's TP resistance when he was mind-controlled in that very same story by the Goddess, but ok....."

#28 Edited by sync1 (2814 posts) - - Show Bio

Fernus wins

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#29 Edited by HolySerpent (12457 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: why even make a long laundry list of reasons proving him wrong when all he is going to due is forget everything forget everything you wrote (assuming he even read it) and go on to another thread and repeat what he just type

#30 Posted by alternative_backup (622 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall It is nice to find and learn from users with good arguments, like you, CitizenBane, JackKnight, RollDestroyer and other more users, who visit the site daily.

#31 Posted by Saren (25273 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: why even make a long laundry list of reasons proving him wrong when all he is going to due is forget everything forget everything you wrote (assuming he even read it) and go on to another thread and repeat what he just type

Hope springs eternal.

Anyway, judging from his wall, Mal is now planning to post screenshots of things I said years ago when I didn't know as much about the characters......as proof......in place of the on-panel proof he doesn't have.......

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#32 Posted by Killemall (18250 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Posted by CaptnMcDeadpool (950 posts) - - Show Bio

@captnmcdeadpool said:

I'm gonna agree with you. Silver Surfer was able to go toe to toe with the Runner, who many agree is as fast as Wally West.

Mal, we've been over this. There is literally nothing you can present to suggest that Runner is even remotely as fast as Wally West. Given that he is barely even a lightspeeder judging from his humiliation at Makkari's hands, there is really nothing to suggest that he's even as fast as Kid Flash. And if by "Surfer was able to go toe to toe with the Runner", you mean "Surfer got the crap kicked out of him by Runner", we are in complete agreement. Reconciling your need to establish Surfer as Flash's equal in speed with the evidence of Runner exploiting Surfer's non-existent combat speed and deciding that the only logical conclusion is that Runner must be as fast as Flash, lack of any actual evidence be damned? Typical, really.

I'm not "Mal", as you believe. My old man an me are not the same person. Not sure what your fascination is with him, but I will pay the compliment forward (although, he didn't have very nice things to say about you...I won't repeat the naughty words). I, however do remember you from some time ago. He also said he thought you inquired of him recently on another comic web site...sort of pretending to be a newbie or some such? Not cool.

Anyway, you are as misinformed about the Silver Surfer now as you were when I talked to you back then.

Now, where were we?

Oh yeah, the Runner. You..that's right you have already said you thought Wally and the Runner are on par speed wise. Did you forget that? Here, let me help you out. Below is the link to yours and killemall's comments about the Runner from some time ago. Someone bumped it recently and I noticed your guys comments. It seems the consensus of at least some, you and killemall included, are that the Runner is not only at least equal to Wally in speed, but that he would paste Wally. It appears that you and killemall and others on the Vine have already given your blessing to the Runner over Wally West. Are you changing your mind now? Here's the link:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/flash-vs-runner-625523/

And here are the close-ups so you don't get any strange notions about editing your posts, I'll make'em nice and big so you can see:

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Personally, I think the Runner is faster than either Wally or the Surfer. Nevertheless, there are scans on the link above that show the Runner's fight with the Surfer. What I notice about the scans is that the Surfer did not lose because The Runner was faster...he lost because he was physically overpowered as the scans clearly indicate.

. I think for Fernus to be effective against the Surfer, he would have to be as fast. I have to assume because Fernus is from Martian Manhunter (Fernus was determined by the JLA to be his own separate, unique genetic being apart from Martian Manhunter), Silver Surfer should take this. Speed coupled with massive energy strikes should do the trick.

The fact that Surfer never uses his speed in 99% of his fights might throw a spanner in those particular works.

I agree with this point inasmuch as the Surfer doesn't do crazy stuff like twirl his arms a million miles an hour creating vortex's to slow a train or some such, but let's not exaggerate okay Bane? 99%? Surfer doesn't use his speed often in combat because he is supremely confident of his ability to tank shots from even characters like the Hulk and has done so on numerous occasions. Also, writer's usually show him blasting someone rather than hitting the opponent. Morpheus did an incredible job on a Silver Surfer thread about that very subject.

Writer's don't think of the Silver Surfer in the same terms they do The Flash, because the Flash's main power set is speed. That same speed is only one of the Surfer's power sets. Nevertheless, there are numerous obvious indicators that he is capable of moving at the same speeds, and just because writer's don't portray him that way often doesn't mean we should ignore the clear evidence that is presented. To ignore all the feats and scans already presented on this very web site is just bias. Period. But stuff like the gauntlet grab in Infinity Gauntlet is an obvious one. Him searching the earth in a few seconds is another obvious indicator...very reminiscent of Wally's searching the crowd of faces for only two that were smiling in a pico second. But that feat really isn't much compared to this reaction feat:

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In Flash 145, Wally, as he indicates above, grabs the treadmill from another time line and brings it back to the current one. If he wanted to, he could've brought it back a few moments earlier, right? Imagine the combat implications...although Wally didn't blitz through time and strike anyone, he could've? Right? I realize above is not a combat feat....but it is an indicator of what the character is capable of. Comic feats don't always explicitly spell everything out, sometimes its a matter of paying attention to what the feat indicates the character can do. Same for the Surfer, who as already mentioned moves from one point in time to the next, just like Wally does. I already mentioned the Durok feat.

Again, we've been over this. Aside from your made-up theory that time travel is the fastest reaction speed possible

You keep saying "we". Get it right. We are different. But whatever thrills you.

I don't agree with everything my old man says, but he's right on that point. From what I know of the Surfer and Wally, both can move from one point in time to the next pretty easily. In turn, when either of these characters are "travelling" time, they are literally moving from what is to each of them, one frozen time line to the next. In order to move from said frozen time line to the next, you have to have a thought then a subsequent reaction. Not only that, but anyone within those timelines is well, frozen compared to them, while they are clearly moving around. Not sure what's so hard to understand here. In terms of acceleration to said time travel speed? For the Surfer, it's instantaneous acceleration. Above, in Flash 145, Wally demonstrates the same.

----even though time travel is an instant BFR, as we have already gone over ---- Surfer has never done anything to suggest his reactions in combat are any faster than someone like Superman's. And given that Clark has something Surfer lacks ----- specifically, countless examples of him actually using his speed in combat ----- putting the Surfer on Superman's level of combat speed might be a little generous.

My dad must've made a real impression on you...already gone over?

Again, see above. Gauntlet grab, searching five billion people on earth in only a moment. C'mon, your bias is ridiculous. Again, we have to go by what the feats indicate a character is reasonably capable of. Are you saying Superman can move from one point in time to the next? So...you're putting current Superman on par with Wally West in speed who we know can move from point in time to point in time? Okay. That's rich. Silver Age Superman, sure. But not Clark as we know him now...this is a silly statement.

. As well, on the high end, Surfer has a nice resistance to TP feat in Infinity Crusade against Moondragon, augmented by the mind gem. Previously, she had taken out Charles Xavier with the same telepathic assault.

Moondragon's access to the full power of the Mind Gem was restricted by Adam Warlock from the minute she first received it. For that matter Moondragon with the Mind Gem couldn't do anything to Thor either, while Xavier one-shotted Thor with his telepathy. Thanos also laughed off her "infinite telepathic powers". I also don't know why you'd bring up Infinity Crusade in the context of Surfer's TP resistance when he was mind-controlled in that very same story by the Goddess, but ok.....

Which is PIS when we consider that a retard like Nebula, who doesn't have near the technical prowess of Thanos, was equally omnipotent when she possessed the infinity gauntlet. But you go on believing that sunshine. And Thanos is, well....Thanos. What's not to get there?

Besides, it's not like Surfer doesn't have limits when it comes to psychic attacks. Just ask Psycho-Man.

Really? Jeph Loeb. Er, okay. Sure man. Whatever you say. But at the same time, are you saying Psycho man is not powerful?

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Or the Others.

Do you even know who the other are? These guys took out Galactus:

Or Supernalia, in Avengers Annual #11, scans be lacking for that one.

No worries.

Are literally any of the people above even remotely on J'onn's level? No, not really.

So, you're saying The Other, an entity that took out Galactus and the Surfer are no where near J'onn? Okay, have it your way.

I can guarantee you that if we start comparing and contrasting high-end telepathy feats for the two, they will not be in the same league. They won't even be playing the same game. I can show you scans of Martian Manhunter blocking telepathic attacks and manipulating the minds of guys who casually decimate universes. Norrin trying to fend off or take on Fernus in psychic warfare is a losing proposition. And psychic warfare is the first thing Fernus employs. Surfer would have a better chance if his morals were off and he was in anything-goes mode.

Well...we really don't need to, because the Surfer is much faster than J'onn CB. Telepathy is really a moot point when you fight a guy who has demonstrated instantaneous acceleration. When you pony up some feats of J'onn moving from one point in time to the next...or while time is otherwise frozen, feel free to come talk to me.

#34 Posted by CaptnMcDeadpool (950 posts) - - Show Bio

@captnmcdeadpool:

I dunno. Unless specified otherwise we assume in character.

And in character Silver Surfer is a pretty high level jobber.

I'd have to disagree. Morpheus has posted a number of feats on a Silver Surfer respect thread that clearly indicate his tanking shots from any number of characters...doesn't make him a "jobber", just means he often doesn't feel his opponents are real threats. Some try to use those self same scans to prove the Surfer's lack of speed. Closer examination reveals otherwise.

#35 Posted by XiiX (7421 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Fernus would take it via telepathy.

#36 Posted by ChristhecomicPunk (106 posts) - - Show Bio

Fernus.