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#1 Posted by busuzima (54 posts) - - Show Bio

The fight is first to knock the other one out morals are on bloodlust is off the battle takes place In an ancient dojo with them being the only combatants who will be the victor!

#2 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Karate Kid, but Fat Cobra has formidable fighting skills of his own, hundreds of years of experience, every possible physical advantage  including a healing factor, and magical techniques.

#3 Posted by fatman10000 (7 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem said:
I like Karate Kid, but Fat Cobra has formidable fighting skills of his own, hundreds of years of experience, every possible physical advantage  including a healing factor, and magical techniques.
if this is some way in a comicbook 
you will fing karate kid taking a beating
then fat cobra starts talking about how is he superior
karate kid gets up from the floor
karate kid says something epicly heroic about what seperates good from bad
karate kid starts beating fat cobra so hard denying everything that what was shown in the previous panels
till fat cobra loses, rops on the floor
karate kid gives us his back and walks away in the orange sun  
#4 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@fatman10000: FC has much greater durability and speed than KK.
#5 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem: I don't think speed is an issue. Karate Kid redirected a speed blitz from Mon-El once, and was able to keep up with Ultra Boy (who was moving at superhuman speeds, also). 
#6 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
@kadeem: I don't think speed is an issue. Karate Kid redirected a speed blitz from Mon-El once, and was able to keep up with Ultra Boy (who was moving at superhuman speeds, also). 
The difference here is that Fat Cobra has both super human speed and incredible martial arts skills.  Another advantage that he has over Karate Kid is that he is capable of long range attacks.
#7 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem said:
The difference here is that Fat Cobra has both super human speed and incredible martial arts skills.  Another advantage that he has over Karate Kid is that he is capable of long range attacks.
The difference is noted, but even with martial arts skills, it doesn't mean that Karate Kid cannot keep up with him in a physical fight. If he's been able to react to two people who are magnitudes faster than Fat Cobra, what will his speed mean in this fight?  
 
As for long ranged attacks, what can he do? Someone told me that he can summon lightning. However, Karate Kid has dodged lightning before.
#8 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock
Here are just a few of FC's feats.
Stomping Giant Slap
Cudgel of Misfortune
Whirlwind of Impending Doom
Heaven's Haymaker
Sumo Thunder Stomp
The Sumo Thunder Stomp will be especially difficult for Karate Kid to evade. The combination of Fat Cobra's skill and power sets will be to much for Karate Kid to handle.
#9 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem: Hmmmm... 
 
Other than the Sumo Stomp (which appears as if Cobra only uses it against multiple enemies, rather than just one person), I can still see the other attacks being evaded. Like I said, his lightning can be dodged, and Karate Kid has dodged it before. He's even dodged Mon-El's heat vision. Ranged attacks shouldn't be a problem.
#10 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock: Karate Kid is  good but not even he would be able to dodge 100% of Fat Cobra's attacks, although to be fair I don't think that Fat Cobra's blows will land 100% of the time either.  A major issue hear is Fat Cobra's durability.  The OP says that the victory will be determined by KO, and Karate Kid simply doesn't have the force behind his blows to knock him out. On top of this Fat Cobra has hundreds of years more experience as a warrior.
#11 Edited by Suiken_Seiji (520 posts) - - Show Bio

While FC is impressive in his own right.
 
I have to still give it to Karate Kid.   
 
 


  Karate Kid #12, if you're interested. Later on, if you read the issue. Later on, Superboy and Val come to a truce and have a handshake and   uses that handshake as his chance to put Superboy in an unbreakable hold not even Superboy could get out, now that's some good judo.

            I'll add more scans, but here are some of Karate Kid's feats concerning strength and speed and his Judo skills.
#12 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem: I don't believe that. Karate Kid has been able to stop earthquakes with kicks, and demolish meteorites, also. He KO'ed Micro Lad once, who was 60 feet tall, and Class 100, on top of that. He was once able to knock Superboy about, making his flinch with his physical attacks. Karate Kid has even broken inerton, which is supposed to an indestructible metal from the 30th century. Not just that, but he's been able to shatter 70,000 tons of ice with one blow. Granted, it was a focused attack, but still. I believe he should have what it takes to hurt or KO Fat Cobra here. Not saying it would be easy for him, though.
#13 Posted by Suiken_Seiji (520 posts) - - Show Bio

Val being able to use his "find weakness" ability to find a tracer Batman had put on him.
 

#14 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@suiken_seiji: I agree that Karate Kid is very impressive as well, but he has never demonstrated the ability to KO some one at Fat Cobra's durability level, or at least with his bare hands and feet.  Fat Cobra is also much more martially adept then most of the super humans that KK has beaten, so FC will know how to apply his powers better in the context of a martial arts fight than the super humans KK usually takes on.
#15 Posted by Suiken_Seiji (520 posts) - - Show Bio

Val destroying a meteorite with one blow. Doubt FC has the durability of this
 
 

 
Here, KK performs a number of feats, including:
-takes out an advanced tank with one blow.
-takes out a crowd of soldiers, 
-shakes the streets by stomping his feet, and 
-takes out an air craft with an ordinary crowbar:  
 
 
#16 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem said:
@suiken_seiji: I agree that Karate Kid is very impressive as well, but he has never demonstrated the ability to KO some one at Fat Cobra's durability level, or at least with his bare hands and feet.  Fat Cobra is also much more martially adept then most of the super humans that KK has beaten, so FC will know how to apply his powers better in the context of a martial arts fight than the super humans KK usually takes on.
Interesting point.
#17 Posted by Suiken_Seiji (520 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem:  
 
Everything spoken on behalf of FC, don't really give me an idea that he really does stand a chance. KK contends with people who are significantly much faster than him, Superboy,  Don Allen, Barry Allen’s descendant, Mon-El, all who have even tried speed-blitzed him, yet he still manages to not only react to them, but tag them, even counter them. These are beings who significantly move faster than any kind of lightning FC can dish out. KK also has demonstrated as the scans shown to not only injure but bring down FC with a single blow, I highly doubt FC has the durability of any Dexamite or Kryptonian, or even a meteorite. KK is also a master of every form of martial arts up to the 30th Century, far surpassing FC in the knowledge and skill of martial arts. To add on to this... KK can find his weak point easily and just hit him there. What does FC possess him to contend with such superior speed, strength, skill, and knowledge with close quarter combat and the ability to find and sense his weak point?
#18 Posted by Suiken_Seiji (520 posts) - - Show Bio

   
  KK not only knocking down Superboy, but holding him down with a specific type of martial arts technique 
 

 

 KK  using Superboy as a practice dummy, and incidentally demonstrating that he's "master of all forms of hand-to-hand combat known in the thirtieth century," including those with weapons, including multiple galaxies, that's...a lot of combat styles.
  
 
 

KK finding the weak point in a diamond prison and shattering it. 
 
#19 Posted by PowerHerc (85153 posts) - - Show Bio

Karate Kid takes the Fat Cobra down.

#20 Posted by cattlebattle (13209 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:

Karate Kid takes the Fat Cobra down.

Yes, I don't think Fat Cobra could handle his strikes
#21 Posted by primepower53 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

Karate Kid takes this.

#22 Posted by death_and_decay (159 posts) - - Show Bio

karate kid would win easily

#23 Posted by grimlock (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

i have to go with Fat Cobra. he is an outstanding martial artists who has more experience, strength and speed than KK. i dont see KK winning this

#24 Posted by Scarbearer (741 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Karate Kid takes this.  I think one thing people overlook about KK often is that he's not just a /really/ good Martial Artiist.  Karate/Kung Fu/Martial arts is his SUPERPOWER!  Just like really powerful sorcerers like Dr. Strange and Dr. Fate wield magic, and it's virtually unlimited, or very rarely  limited.  Essentially it's an excuse for the writers to allow those characters to do whatever they need them too.  If they need a weakness they can exploit, the cook one up on the fly.
 
Karate Kid is much the same way his 'Karate' and all those eclectic alien styles he's mastered allow him to do whatever the writers need him to do at any given time.  Basically, KK is the 'Sorcerer Supreme' of Martial Artists.

#25 Posted by OmegaDynasty (9199 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@suiken_seiji said:
@kadeem:   Everything spoken on behalf of FC, don't really give me an idea that he really does stand a chance. KK contends with people who are significantly much faster than him, Superboy,  Don Allen, Barry Allen’s descendant, Mon-El, all who have even tried speed-blitzed him, yet he still manages to not only react to them, but tag them, even counter them. These are beings who significantly move faster than any kind of lightning FC can dish out. KK also has demonstrated as the scans shown to not only injure but bring down FC with a single blow, I highly doubt FC has the durability of any Dexamite or Kryptonian, or even a meteorite. KK is also a master of every form of martial arts up to the 30th Century, far surpassing FC in the knowledge and skill of martial arts. To add on to this... KK can find his weak point easily and just hit him there. What does FC possess him to contend with such superior speed, strength, skill, and knowledge with close quarter combat and the ability to find and sense his weak point?
It's not just the issue of Fat Cobra's speed by itself that is an issue here but the combo of FC's speed and martial art's skills.  While the super humans you mentioned that Karate Kid has been able to get an advantage on in combat, they are not nearly as martially adept as as Fat Cobra.  Fat Cobra is a martial arts master with hundreds of years of training and experience, and has both a seasoned fighter's sense of how to read an opponent's movements in combat and a super human speed.  While the arguments that Karate Kid is very skilled at evading attacks, the same argument is true that Fat Cobra can as well, and on top of that skill set FC is super humanly fast and durable. Also silver age feats don't apply to the modern age Karate Kid.
#27 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
I like how people try to play the experience card. It's a cop-out. Karate Kid isn't a rookie. He's a master of his craft, and fights intergalactic threats across different time periods. For all of Fat Cobra's experience, he's done nothing Karate Kid hasn't seen or dealt with before. On top of that, Karate Kid probably knows techniques that Fat Cobra has never seen in his life. 
#28 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@grimlock said:
he is an outstanding martial artists who has more experience, strength and speed than KK. i dont see KK winning this
Superboy, Mon-El, and Ultra Boy all had more speed and strength than Karate Kid, and he still did well against them. 
#29 Posted by Suiken_Seiji (520 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem:  
 
Silver Age or not, his feats of strength, speed, reaction time, martial arts skill, finding/sensing weak points seem pretty consistent with me.  
 
His speed and reaction time, still shows he can hang with some of the fastest, faster than anything FC can do. 
Strength, he can still topple things with more durability than FC. He has even sent Microman at giant size through a building and through the air to the degree of what a superhuman can deliver while his back was turned. 
Can he still sense things? Yes, as it is shown with batman's tracer. I point this out cause that's a scan you can view on the first page. 
  
FC's durability and speed is not an issue for KK. Martial Arts skill, KK has knowledge of every type of martial arts up to the 30th century and has mastered them, this is what makes him KK. To question that, you question the character in it self. It's a high possibility KK not only knows FC's martial arts, but knows what strikes he has based on what type of martial arts he knows. If he knows this, he knows the answer to each of FC's strikes. 
 
If KK can react to a speed blitzing Mon-El, FC will seem slow to KK.  
 
Common sense leans to KK in favor of winning, hence by the majority of people leaning with KK right off the bat. Other than that.... Let the scans do the talking. 
#30 Posted by grimlock (1571 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
@grimlock said:
he is an outstanding martial artists who has more experience, strength and speed than KK. i dont see KK winning this
Superboy, Mon-El, and Ultra Boy all had more speed and strength than Karate Kid, and he still did well against them. 
Fat Cobra is different. none of the guys u've mentioned there is a martial artist. Fat Cobra has hundreds of years experience and has fought and won against nigh supernatural characters like the serpent Xiang. clearly he has an edge over KK here
#31 Edited by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@grimlock: Never mind the fact that he's different. I'm aware of that. You're making mention of the man's strength and speed when Karate Kid has dealt with characters that are hundreds of times faster than Fat Cobra is. His physical abilities don't mean anything if Karate Kid can toss around Superboy like a ragdoll. Having hundreds of years of experience doesn't tell me much against a character that has mastered every single fighting style up to the 31st century and fight villains all over different time periods.
 
Do you know what the prefix 'nigh' means? It means 'almost.' Nearly. Close, but not quite. To say that someone or something is nigh-supernatural means that they would almost be considered as such, but not quite there. Not even borderline. If this is the case, then that nigh-supernatural whatever-he-is doesn't seem very impressive in comparison to a character who stomps on vastly-superhuman characters regularly.  
 
I don't see a clear edge for Fat Cobra yet. 
#32 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

In fairness to Fat Cobra....those aren't all the same Karate Kid.

#33 Edited by death_and_decay (159 posts) - - Show Bio
@grimlock said:

@Static Shock said:

@grimlock said:
he is an outstanding martial artists who has more experience, strength and speed than KK. i dont see KK winning this
Superboy, Mon-El, and Ultra Boy all had more speed and strength than Karate Kid, and he still did well against them. 
Fat Cobra is different. none of the guys u've mentioned there is a martial artist. Fat Cobra has hundreds of years experience and has fought and won against nigh supernatural characters like the serpent Xiang. clearly he has an edge over KK here
it doesnt matter if they aren't martial artist, all of them are literally millions of times faster then fat cobra is, and karate kid has reacted to all of them.  fat cobra wont be able to land a hit despite how much experience he has because he'll look like he's moving in slow motion to kk.  fat cobra has no advantage here, karate kid would kill him with a single hit. 
#34 Posted by SC (13307 posts) - - Show Bio

I give it to Fat Cobra personally. At least from what I know of both characters and applying objective consistency. Mainly because I find most arguments for Karate Kid self defeating. Karate Kid doesn't deal with fast characters by being faster or even relatively fast, he does by being much more skilled, so he won't be fast enough to avoid Fat Cobra because of his speed, if he avoids Fat Cobra, its by being skilled. Fat Cobra isn't as fast as many of the people Karate Kid has dealt with, but he is a lot more skilled. His applied offense should therefore be much more effective. Make a character infinitely strong but without the ability to hit an opponent. Fruitless impractical powers. Increase the likelihood of hitting and the amount of strength behind that blow can matter less considerably. It also depends how you apply the narrative and discern that with visual discrepancies Cobra can take big hits and more fast and move with accuracy and skill. 

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#35 Posted by grimlock (1571 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
@grimlock: Never mind the fact that he's different. I'm aware of that. You're making mention of the man's strength and speed when Karate Kid has dealt with characters that are hundreds of times faster than Fat Cobra is. His physical abilities don't mean anything if Karate Kid can toss around Superboy like a ragdoll. Having hundreds of years of experience doesn't tell me much against a character that has mastered every single fighting style up to the 31st century and fight villains all over different time periods. Do you know what the prefix 'nigh' means? It means 'almost.' Nearly. Close, but not quite. To say that someone or something is nigh-supernatural means that they would almost be considered as such, but not quite there. Not even borderline. If this is the case, then that nigh-supernatural whatever-he-is doesn't seem very impressive in comparison to a character who stomps on vastly-superhuman characters regularly.   I don't see a clear edge for Fat Cobra yet. 
i dont dispute KK can handle guys with great speed and strength. but all the guys u've talked about have great speed and strength but no martial arts skills. FC has the strength, the speed and the martial arts skill to apply it. that makes him a more dangerous opponent than the guys in your roster there. KK has an edge when it comes to variety maybe but still FC will be stiff competition. hundreds of years experience definitely means something unless you've chosen to deliberately ignore that. nigh is not a prefix its a word that means near. a near omnipotent character just falls inches away from omnipotent.e.g galactus(check his profile the word in used on him) so according to you galactus,"whatever he-is-doesnt seem very impressive in comparison to a character who stomps on vastly-superhuman characters regularly?" nice argument
#36 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@grimlock said:
i dont dispute KK can handle guys with great speed and strength. but all the guys u've talked about have great speed and strength but no martial arts skills.
So what if they don't? That's really not the point, and I doubt Fat Cobra is that much better than Karate Kid is as far as fighting goes. 
 
@grimlock said:
that makes him a more dangerous opponent than the guys in your roster there.
Not sure how that's holds up, since both Superboy and Mon-El (who was bloodlusted when he fought Karate Kid) are more dangerous than Fat Cobra. 
 
@grimlock said:
hundreds of years experience definitely means something unless you've chosen to deliberately ignore that. 
You continue to ignore that Karate Kid isn't a rookie, as well. It goes both ways. His experience doesn't mean that much. 
 
@grimlock said:
nigh is not a prefix its a word that means near. a near omnipotent character just falls inches away from omnipotent.
It can be used as a prefix, too (only hyphenated). Nevertheless, you just reinforced my point of what 'nigh' means. Did you not read what I said about it?  
 
Static Shock said:   

It means 'almost.' Nearly. Close, but not quite


@grimlock said:
so according to you galactus,"whatever he-is-doesnt seem very impressive in comparison to a character who stomps on vastly-superhuman characters regularly?" nice argument
LOL. You should really stop trying to act like you know what you're talking about. It's embarrassing.  
 
Fat Cobra has never beaten Galactus, so what are you talking about?
 You said the Serpent Xiang was nigh-supernatural, making him near or close to being supernatural, but not quite there. Supernatural and omnipotent don't have the same meaning, so please pick up a dictionary for a change and steer clear of building a strawman argument. Okay?
#37 Edited by Suiken_Seiji (520 posts) - - Show Bio

I keep hearing the "hundreds of years of experience", wasn't FC only born 111 years ago, not even up to 200 years? So... I don't understand how people are claiming to say he has hundreds of years of experience. So how much of experience he has, eh... I wouldn't even make it that significant, especially when he's facing someone who doesn't fit the bill in what he may be experienced against. 
 
Not trying to take away FC's years of experience, but it's being over exaggerated here.

#38 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio

Fat Cobra's experience out ways KK's experience by leaps and bounds no matter how you cut it.  Fat Cobra has experienced  combat with very skilled martial aritists both with and without super powers, so the claim that Karate Kid doesn't fit the bill of anything he experienced holds no water. Beating a super powered opponent that has no martial arts skills and beating one thats a martial arts master are to radically different things.  Karate Kid has never demonstrated that he can take down highly skilled martial artist with powers at FC's level.  KK taking down super humans that aren't skilled fighters is a moot point regardless of how many times its repeated.  Karate Kid's ability to shatter inanimate objects with a single blow doesn't mean he could beat Fat Cobra either.  To quote Bruce Lee "Boards do not hit back".

#39 Posted by Suiken_Seiji (520 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem:  
 
His experience is questionable, that's all. There hasn't been enough feats of him to display how far his experience extends and how much it will help, regardless of his 111 years. So the idea of how much his experience will help is debatable, much like how people use Thor's eons of experience or Wolverine's hundreds of years of experience. The experience card won't help him much is what I'm implying, not to compare KK's and his level of experience.
 
Comparing experience is one thing, using it effectively is another. Cause we've all seen experience people fall to less experience people. I'm not trying to bring down FC by comparing him to others, I'm simply pointing out... there's not enough feats to back up how much his experience will help here.
 
FC's fighting style consist of striking, his speed only goes so far, same for his skill. FC's skill isn't on par's with KK with martial arts, why he has a close degree of supernatural abilities to help him in order to compensate. Are you trying to imply that the combine speed of his martial arts skill and speed is comparable to Mon-El's speed blitz? 
#40 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem said:
Fat Cobra's experience out ways KK's experience by leaps and bounds no matter how you cut it. 
As it's been revealed, Fat Cobra is only 111 years old. So much for 'hundreds of years of experience'. Wolverine is well over 120 years of age, and he gets handled by people that aren't even as experienced or as old as he is. This whole 'experience' crap is nonsense. On top of that, Karate Kid isn't just some rookie or pushover.
#41 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice debating

#42 Posted by Freefa11 (2423 posts) - - Show Bio

Just out of curiosity, has Karate Kid ever lost a fight?

#43 Posted by Suiken_Seiji (520 posts) - - Show Bio
@Freefa11:  
 
hand to hand close quarter combat? i'm not sure, but i haven't seen him lose under his own will, own skill of control, in a healthy mind and body state. He has been beaten under certain circumstances of being ill and dying. 
 
There was an instance of him and Batman fighting at one point. I don't have actual scans of the fight between Batman and Karate Kid. But I can tell you, and up to you to take my word for it or not.   Batman was losing and got in one hit on him, but that was because he was being mind - controlled and suffering from memory loss, and we later find out that he's dying of a deadly disease. However the fight never finished between the two. Black Lightning intervened to aid Batman. 
 
 But here's after the fight where it goes on to tell you about Karate Kid and his mind controled incident and mentioning of his unknown deadly virus. 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 

#44 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Freefa11 said:
Just out of curiosity, has Karate Kid ever lost a fight?
I haven't read enough of his appearance to know, honestly.
#45 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@suiken_seiji: My main point is that Karate Kid has no feats that demonstrate that he can take down super powered martial arts masters.  While he has many feats that show him taking down either base line martial arts masters or super humans that aren't anywhere near master level martial artists, we cannot conclude from those feats that Karate Kid could do the same to a super powered martial arts master. I do though agree that Karate Kid is a beast and the skill has demonstrated in the past is jaw dropping.
@Static Shock: No one said that Karate Kid is a push over or rookie, and I never said that experience alone will determine the winner of any given fight, these are just straw men you have set up to knock down.  Looking at a given characters experiences helps us to evaluate how well they have developed their skill and power sets, and how adept they are at applying them in the context of a battle.  Hypothetically if we were to by into the notion that this whole experience crap is nonsense than that has to apply to both opponents. This means that we wouldn't be able to bring Karate Kid's experience of studying every martial art known in his time period and his and his relatively short, but by no means sophomoric experience in combat.
#46 Edited by Suiken_Seiji (520 posts) - - Show Bio

This is what we can conclude. 
 
Does KK have the strength to harm FC? Yes
Does KK have the speed and reaction time to meet FC? Yes 
Does KK have the skill? Oh, most definitely. Because he does everything above what we've concluded through just skill alone, not super human abilities.  
Does KK's experience actually effect him? Yes, because he learned all his martial arts skill through experience, it's not a power. it's something you need to learn, which in turn has allowed him gain not only knowledge but experience. He has to practice these things in order to get good. So yes, experience does play in favor for him. Not the same kind of experience as combat experience but experience in the sense he is skilled enough to apply all his techniques in combat with great effect, but none the less it's still experience
 
Now if we were to question FC in return, we can't do the same kind of conclusion 
 
Does FC have the strength to harm KK? Yes. KK is only human durability.
Does FC have the speed and reaction to meet KK? Questionable, very questionable. Even with skill combined, it's questionable. To agree that he can, you're suggesting that his speed with the combination of his skill is equivalent to moving at the speeds as fast as someone as Mon-El when speed blitzing.  
Does FC have the skill? Questionable once again. How much skill does he use over his superhuman abilities to perform his actions? Does he rely more on super human abilities than skill, or does he rely more on skill than his super human abilities? So once again, his skill is can only be speculated, same with his super human abilities. There's no clear indication.
Does Experience pay off in favor of FC? No. Because we've seen people with more experience be taken down with less experience. Plus he hasn't shown enough feats that his experience pays off.
 
FC has one concluded fact about him, that he has the strength to harm KK, that's about it, everything else is speculation. KK however has the speed and strength, and skill, because he does everything with skill. He has the experience, because he has to learn his martial arts techniques through practice and honing them to perfection well enough to work in combat. Experience means gaining knowledge first hand, which he does with his martial arts. 

#47 Posted by grimlock (1571 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
@grimlock said:
i dont dispute KK can handle guys with great speed and strength. but all the guys u've talked about have great speed and strength but no martial arts skills.
So what if they don't? That's really not the point, and I doubt Fat Cobra is that much better than Karate Kid is as far as fighting goes. 
 
@grimlock said:
that makes him a more dangerous opponent than the guys in your roster there.
Not sure how that's holds up, since both Superboy and Mon-El (who was bloodlusted when he fought Karate Kid) are more dangerous than Fat Cobra. 
 
@grimlock said:
hundreds of years experience definitely means something unless you've chosen to deliberately ignore that. 
You continue to ignore that Karate Kid isn't a rookie, as well. It goes both ways. His experience doesn't mean that much. 
 
@grimlock said:
nigh is not a prefix its a word that means near. a near omnipotent character just falls inches away from omnipotent.
It can be used as a prefix, too (only hyphenated). Nevertheless, you just reinforced my point of what 'nigh' means. Did you not read what I said about it?  
 
Static Shock said:   

It means 'almost.' Nearly. Close, but not quite


@grimlock said:
so according to you galactus,"whatever he-is-doesnt seem very impressive in comparison to a character who stomps on vastly-superhuman characters regularly?" nice argument
LOL. You should really stop trying to act like you know what you're talking about. It's embarrassing.  
 
Fat Cobra has never beaten Galactus, so what are you talking about?
 You said the Serpent Xiang was nigh-supernatural, making him near or close to being supernatural, but not quite there. Supernatural and omnipotent don't have the same meaning, so please pick up a dictionary for a change and steer clear of building a strawman argument. Okay?
i wouldnt be crazy to suggest FC has fought galactus. i was only using an example of where the word "nigh" has been applied. embarasing? well i think am the infallible authority as far as interpretation of my own words goes. i dont need external conscience  to monitor that much less yours static. you have made ur point and i have made mine this is not a flame war its simply exchange of opinions. so be abit careful with the words u're using on me.
#48 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@grimlock said:
i wouldnt be crazy to suggest FC has fought galactus.
That's what you were suggesting. If not, I suggest you say what you really mean so people don't get what you're saying misconstrued. 
 
@grimlock said:
 i was only using an example of where the word "nigh" has been applied. 
It was pointless. I knew what the word meant and gave a definition (as well as a description of how it's used). Why reiterate what I said? 
 
@grimlock said:
you have made ur point and i have made mine this is not a flame war its simply exchange of opinions. so be abit careful with the words u're using on me.
When you responded sarcastically and condescendingly with your 'nice argument' remark, I could have told you the same thing.  
 
@kadeem said:
@Static Shock: No one said that Karate Kid is a push over or rookie, and I never said that experience alone will determine the winner of any given fight, these are just straw men you have set up to knock down. 
I haven't set up anything. You've been passing of Fat Cobra's 'hundreds of years of experience' as if it means something (when Fat Cobra is barely over a hundred years old). That very same argument has been addressed, and hasn't been distorted in an attempt to set up another argument to refute. Hence, there's no strawman. You didn't have to say that it would determine the winner, but it is what you're insinuating, nonetheless. If not, why bring it up? You also didn't have to say Karate Kid was a rookie. I said it myself to set the record straight and to let others know that Fat Cobra's experience doesn't make that much of a difference. 
 
@kadeem said:
Hypothetically if we were to by into the notion that this whole experience crap is nonsense than that has to apply to both opponents.
The point I'm trying to make is Fat Cobra's years of experience doesn't give him a significant edge. Everyone knows he's experienced, and experienced enough hold his own in a fight. It doesn't mean that he cannot be defeated by Karate Kid.
#49 Posted by higher_evolutionary (2016 posts) - - Show Bio

karate kid is too much
 
i hate it when they are too much

#50 Edited by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock: I said that FC's experience was a factor in why he would win, not that it was THE reason that he would win as you misrepresented my argument. Your saying that Karate Kid wasn't a rookie insinuated falsely that I said that he was.  Hence, there were strawmen.  
 

@suiken_seiji


You seem to have claimed that we cannot conclusively asses to what degree Fat Cobra uses his skills vs his powers in battle, and we have not seen enough feats of his to determine how his experienced would help him in battle, so we cannot conclude that Fat Cobra would be able to win.  If this is true than that we can conclude that Karate Kid would win the battle, but that don't have the ability to conclude that either opponent would win or lose. 

Does KK's experience actually effect him? Yes, because he learned all his martial arts skill through experience, it's not a power. it's something you need to learn, which in turn has allowed him gain not only knowledge but experience. He has to practice these things in order to get good. So yes, experience does play in favor for him. Not the same kind of experience as combat experience but experience in the sense he is skilled enough to apply all his techniques in combat with great effect, but none the less it's still experience
 

 

Does FC have the skill? Questionable once again. How much skill does he use over his superhuman abilities to perform his actions? Does he rely more on super human abilities than skill, or does he rely more on skill than his super human abilities? So once again, his skill is can only be speculated, same with his super human abilities. There's no clear indication.

It is fair to say that Karate Kid's abilities came to him by way of his skills which he gained through learning from both knowledge and experience, but this is also true about Fat Cobra.  Fat Cobra had to learn martial arts through both knowledge and experience just like Karate Kid.  On top of this the style he learned was a magical style of martial arts.  All of his powers are derived from his martial arts skills.  Everything he can do from his supernatural speed, reaction time, strength, druability, healing, immortality, lightning & energy attacks, ect, are derived from  the skillful mystic manipulation of his chi.  Fat Cobra's powers are actually part of his skill set.  His powers and martial art skill can't be said to be entirely separate from each other than lets say Wolverine's, Spider Woman's, or Deadpool's.  The claim that we can't really evaluate a given characters martial art skills because we don't know to what degree they are relying on their powers or their martial skills only makes sense when we are talking about a character who's powers and martial art skills aren't directly related to each other, not with characters that have powers that come from their martial arts skills. 
 
To prove that Karate Kid can win this battle there needs to be feats presented in this conversation of KK defeating opponents that are BOTH martial arts masters, and have super powers that are at least as strong as Fat Cobra's.