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#1 Edited by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

Fantastic Four Roster: Reed Richards, Invisible Woman, Human Torch, Thing.

vs

X-Men Roster:Wolverine, Storm, Cyclops, Colossus(non-jugg/phoenix).

Battle Rules: Morals On, but willing to kill. Win by KO or Death or incapacitation.

Location: NYC

#2 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3176 posts) - - Show Bio

If their morals are on, then most of them wouldn't be willing to kill period. With that out of the way, I'd match them up as follows:

Reed Vs. Wolverine-If Wolverine's claws can hurt Mr. Fantastic, then he probably wins unless Reed uses his powers to envelop his hands around Wolverine's head and drain him of his air-support, which would either knock him out or kill him.

Sue Vs. Storm-I seriously doubt that Storm's lightning will be able to pierce Sue's force-field and she can do some crazy stuff with her other powers. I'd give it to Susan.

Ben Vs. Colossus-I love The Thing, but he's not beating Colossus

Johnny Vs. Cyclops-Scott's optic blasts are powerful, but if Johnny manages to keep his distance and stay out of the way of Scott's attacks, I can definitely see him winning.

After those initial battles are concluded the overall fight could go then in a couple different directions. Personally I'd give it to the FF, but I could also see the X-Men taking a few.

#3 Posted by cattlebattle (12975 posts) - - Show Bio
@shroudofsorrow said:

Ben Vs. Colossus-I love The Thing, but he's not beating Colossus


I would assume this is because you like Colossus better....because Thing has ten times more impressive feats than Colossus does
#4 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3176 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

I would assume this is because you like Colossus better....because Thing has ten times more impressive feats than Colossus does

Nope. Thing is in running for my favorite "Brick" type character ever. I just thought Colossus took damage better than Thing, which would hamper Ben's efforts to be able to put him down. Can't say I mind being wrong here though, since again, I like Ben more than Colossus.

Well, either way, I had said that I think the FF probably win here.

#5 Posted by cattlebattle (12975 posts) - - Show Bio
@shroudofsorrow said:



Nope. Thing is in running for my favorite "Brick" type character ever. I just thought Colossus took damage better than Thing, which would hamper Ben's efforts to be able to put him down. Can't say I mind being wrong here though, since again, I like Ben more than Colossus.

Well, either way, I had said that I think the FF probably win here.

I did not intend to be rude...Its just constant that people think Colossus is stronger/tougher than the llikes of characters like Thing. Colossus is rated as class 100, and Ben is like class 70, but I don't put a lot of stock in those stats being Thing has way better feats against way stronger opponents. Whenver Colossus has battled top class heavy hitters they were usually weakened or not as powerful and still lost, meanwhile Ben has fought Hercules...who wasn't holding back, fought Namor underwater and won....among other impressive feats.
#6 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3176 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

I did not intend to be rude...Its just constant that people think Colossus is stronger/tougher than the llikes of characters like Thing. Colossus is rated as class 100, and Ben is like class 70, but I don't put a lot of stock in those stats being Thing has way better feats against way stronger opponents. Whenver Colossus has battled top class heavy hitters they were usually weakened or not as powerful and still lost, meanwhile Ben has fought Hercules...who wasn't holding back, fought Namor underwater and won....among other impressive feats.

That's my Ben. Always giving a good clobbering when the occasion calls for it.

#7 Posted by cattlebattle (12975 posts) - - Show Bio
@shroudofsorrow said:

.

That's my Ben. Always giving a good clobbering when the occasion calls for it.

Yup...clobbering time, the greatest time. 
 
Ben is always downplayed on the battle forums I have noticed, I don't know why.There is even an issue of Hulk where he states that Ben would give him the best fight bar none.....thats right, not Thor, not Abomination....Ben f**king Grimm
#8 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3176 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

Yup...clobbering time, the greatest time. Ben is always downplayed on the battle forums I have noticed, I don't know why.There is even an issue of Hulk where he states that Ben would give him the best fight bar none.....thats right, not Thor, not Abomination....Ben f**king Grimm

To be fair, a character making a claim or statement is not usually considered valid evidence. If it was, some of my favorite characters would get a lot more respect on these kind of threads. But alas...

#9 Posted by cattlebattle (12975 posts) - - Show Bio
@shroudofsorrow said:


To be fair, a character making a claim or statement is not usually considered valid evidence. If it was, some of my favorite characters would get a lot more respect on these kind of threads. But alas...

Very true...but in fairness Ben has fought Hulk more than mostly anyone and has done better than most as well....so it has some truth to the statment
#10 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

@shroudofsorrow said:

Nope. Thing is in running for my favorite "Brick" type character ever. I just thought Colossus took damage better than Thing, which would hamper Ben's efforts to be able to put him down. Can't say I mind being wrong here though, since again, I like Ben more than Colossus.

Well, either way, I had said that I think the FF probably win here.

I did not intend to be rude...Its just constant that people think Colossus is stronger/tougher than the llikes of characters like Thing. Colossus is rated as class 100, and Ben is like class 70, but I don't put a lot of stock in those stats being Thing has way better feats against way stronger opponents. Whenver Colossus has battled top class heavy hitters they were usually weakened or not as powerful and still lost, meanwhile Ben has fought Hercules...who wasn't holding back, fought Namor underwater and won....among other impressive feats.

Thing is class 100 as of currently so... i think your wrong.

#11 Posted by robertloucksjr (1775 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk is stupid though, Thor should actually beat him in most circumstances. I think Ben can take Colossus. Ben's power has creeped up as his form has gotten more rock-like over the years. I consider their strength to be about equal, but Ben is more skilled in combat.

I think I would take Johnny over Cyclops too. His ability to fly really fast and his blasts don't have to actually hit Cyclops. A near miss at enough degrees would still take out Cyclops.

I think Storm could take Sue just by staying far away and blasting her with lightning and wind until she got tired and her shields fell.

I would take Reed over Wolverine as Wolverine can't really cut Reed and thus can't really hurt him while Reed could at least smother Wolvie.

FF for the win.

#12 Posted by cattlebattle (12975 posts) - - Show Bio
@SwordandShields said:


Thing is class 100 as of currently so... i think your wrong.

I would 100% agree he is class 100, Marvel handbooks and statistics usually list him as class 70 or something like that. He currently very well could be. It has been stated several times Thing gets stronger as time goes by
#13 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

The FF take this. Sue could feasibly solo.

#14 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: so she if she can solo, then that would mean she stomps Storm which i find that hard to believe but we'll see....

#15 Posted by Hksaru (463 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting twist with morals on but willing to kill. That means Sue won't bubble-erupt their brains at first, so she would probably get taken out, eventually, in the majority by Cyclops or Storm. Just because of that I'll have to give the majority to X-men.

#16 Posted by Dernman (15234 posts) - - Show Bio

FF got this

#17 Posted by Dernman (15234 posts) - - Show Bio
@SwordandShields said:

@charlieboy: so she if she can solo, then that would mean she stomps Storm which i find that hard to believe but we'll see....

She can beat Storm.If you need to see a debate on it there are a couple on CV where CitizenBane pretty much got that debate down on lock.
#18 Posted by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow said:

If their morals are on, then most of them wouldn't be willing to kill period. With that out of the way, I'd match them up as follows:

Reed Vs. Wolverine-If Wolverine's claws can hurt Mr. Fantastic, then he probably wins unless Reed uses his powers to envelop his hands around Wolverine's head and drain him of his air-support, which would either knock him out or kill him.

Sue Vs. Storm-I seriously doubt that Storm's lightning will be able to pierce Sue's force-field and she can do some crazy stuff with her other powers. I'd give it to Susan.

Ben Vs. Colossus-I love The Thing, but he's not beating Colossus

Johnny Vs. Cyclops-Scott's optic blasts are powerful, but if Johnny manages to keep his distance and stay out of the way of Scott's attacks, I can definitely see him winning.

After those initial battles are concluded the overall fight could go then in a couple different directions. Personally I'd give it to the FF, but I could also see the X-Men taking a few.

None of the fantastic four are willing to kill, however, Cyclop, Storm and Wolverine would be willing to kill.

They have fought each other before Wolverine and Mr. Fantastic. Wolverine won once and Mr. Fantastic was able to immobilize Wolverine once so that's a win. Although Reed is much smarter, he is not an on your feet tactician, Wolverine however is. So wolverine has that advantage, also the fact that Neither can really KO each other but more likely incapacitate one one another. This First really could go either way but I give the edge to Wolverine, he simply has far more fighting experience in battle, and ninja training to boot, so stealth could come into place. Not to mention in enhances senses. I think in this setting he would win more than lose.

Sue vs. Storm, If the world depending on this fight and Sue had to die Storm would kill Sue by air manipulation. I don't know why people go for lighting fight. Also Storm Lighting is Strong enough to break Phoenix's telekinetic force field, yes it's different but Storm output for Energy is pretty awesome if she cuts loose. Sue doesn't really have the element of surprise here, even if she goes invisible storm should be able to detect her via movement of wind current. But this would leave storm open to attack, however encasing or immobilizing storm is a very bad idea Sue would need to go for a straight KO. Ultimately it would depend who was quicker on the draw, and even without her power it seems Storm reaction times are faster than Sue's So I'll give the edge to storm but this is pretty much a draw.

Ben vs. Colossus, i would give this fight to Ben, he simply has better Strength Feats, and Colossus seems to have some better durability but not by much, he would lose in a brawl which this would be.

Johnny Vs. Cyclops, This one is pretty damn easy, Cyclops. Better tactically, better trained fighter than Johnny, and he could easily counter johnny's flame with his optic blast. Not to mention if he removed his visor and shot a full on optic no visor, johnny couldn't match his output or get away from the area in time to doubt it.

All in all i'd call it a tie. but give the edge to x-men

#19 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blacharrt1: thank you for your impressive feedback and response on the fight, most helpful. :)

#20 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

@SwordandShields: Storm can't get through Sue's shields. But Sue can get Storm with her powers.

#21 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blacharrt1: When has Storm's lightning broken through Phoenix's shields?

#22 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: for this fight betweem Sue and Storm it's a draw. There are many plausible outcomes. IMO i think this battle is a draw but i wanted to get people's opinions.

#23 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

@SwordandShields: I don't agree at all. Sue has defenses against Storm and also has the offensive capabilities as well. Sue vs Storm is something that has been done many times on the battle forums and Sue comes out on top.

#24 Posted by Dernman (15234 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy: Those were fun reads. :p
#25 Edited by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: i do not want to turn this into a Sue vs Storm thread because it's not. Plus why does Storm have to fight Sue, i'll trade Cyke with Storm so Sue vs Cyclops and Human Torch vs Storm. Interesting no? If Cyke is quick enough he could one shot Sue. Conjur this for a moment please.

#26 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

@SwordandShields: None of these X-men have the power to get through Sue's shields. Sue has excellent speed with her shields and block energy attacks as well. She would stomps Cyclops as well. Which is why I am saying Sue could solo. She is probably the most powerful one in this fight.

#27 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman: Yeah they were fun reads. I actually liked reading the crazy Storm fanboys post. It entertained me.

#28 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: your calling somebody a fanboy already, cmon. I haven't even tried to defend storm yet.

#29 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

@SwordandShields: I wasn't even talking about you. I was talking about the old Storm vs. Sue threads.

#30 Posted by Dernman (15234 posts) - - Show Bio
@SwordandShields: No one here was mentioned as a fanboy.
#31 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: my bad... lets calm down.

#32 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

@SwordandShields: I am not uncalm. LOL. Just pointing out I wasn't talking about you.

#33 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: btw on the old thread you say there were fanboys, how could you tell? were they just giving the win to Storm.

#34 Posted by Dernman (15234 posts) - - Show Bio
@SwordandShields: They were "raindrops". That should tell you enough.
#35 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

@SwordandShields: You haven't been here very long. But we used to have some very vocal Storm fanboys who thought that Storm would beat Superman or Galactus. Just some examples. And even when you give them evidence to the contrary they would just say Storm wins. They bring one time feats up like RogueStorm or the Trion feat...Stuff she only did one time basically because the writers came up with it so she could win. Stuff like that. People are often biased about their favorite characters. But fanboys are the ones who won't listen to others.

#36 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman: ok, but i'll give my vote to the X-men,

#37 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1399 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow said:

If their morals are on, then most of them wouldn't be willing to kill period. With that out of the way, I'd match them up as follows:

Reed Vs. Wolverine-If Wolverine's claws can hurt Mr. Fantastic, then he probably wins unless Reed uses his powers to envelop his hands around Wolverine's head and drain him of his air-support, which would either knock him out or kill him.

Sue Vs. Storm-I seriously doubt that Storm's lightning will be able to pierce Sue's force-field and she can do some crazy stuff with her other powers. I'd give it to Susan.

Ben Vs. Colossus-I love The Thing, but he's not beating Colossus

Johnny Vs. Cyclops-Scott's optic blasts are powerful, but if Johnny manages to keep his distance and stay out of the way of Scott's attacks, I can definitely see him winning.

After those initial battles are concluded the overall fight could go then in a couple different directions. Personally I'd give it to the FF, but I could also see the X-Men taking a few.

Reed Vs. Wolverine I dont see y Wolverine couldn't cut reed so i give it to wolverine and his unpredictable ness Reed might have trouble with.

Sue Vs. Storm Ugh i totally hate that Storm is has more than enough power to break threw Sue's shield i mean come on. Also i believe that she should be able to affect the atmosphere inside of Sue's field since her filed dont cut threw the dimension or anything like that. Also you cant use the force field in the body thng since Storm will be putting to much strain on her. My evidence that Storm is stronger than Sue is DoomWar perfect example.

Ben Vs Colossus i give this to Ben actually I believe him to be a bit stronger than Colossus though it wouldnt be a easy fight. But we must not forget this is a team battle after Ben wins Wolverine should be able to finish him off.

Johnny vs Cyclops I am really at odds here. I mean both have the raw power but i just dont know. If i had to say the deciding factor would be Cyclops' intelligent which is superior to Johnnys' so that could be it. But if they are in a stalemate Storm could easily but his flame out as she has done before.

#38 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

@SwordandShields: It's cool. I just don't see how the X-men can win this.

#39 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: well truth be told i'm like 1 month old on CV so you can consider me a newbie. But unlike the storm fanboys i have my reasons on why Storm should win or lose.

#40 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

@SwordandShields: Feel free to share them. I am interested in seeing if you have something new.

#41 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: Sure, but let's get this out of the way i'm a fan of Storm and Invivisible Woman. I will try to be fair. Storm can lift her off her feet and knock her over which should be enough to stop any force fields she was trying to conjur. then Storm could Blast her with lightning.

#42 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

@SwordandShields: Storm isn't going to be able to move Sue. Her shields are going to stop wind. I like both characters but neither are my favorite.

#43 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy said:

@SwordandShields: Storm can't get through Sue's shields. But Sue can get Storm with her powers.

No, but it has been shown that storm can still use her powers while in Sue's shields. So Sue's powers have no real effect on storm's use her abilities. Storm is faster and a better tactician than Sue in a one on one fight. Also the fact that Sue would need to be able to see where her attack is coming from would play in Storm advantage. Storm could literally send a lighting bolt from any direction at any time, or she could instantly drop an F5 tornado on her. Sue could either erect an area shield or try to attack Storm directly (if she can actually see her. Trying to incapacitate Storm wouldn't work because her powers are mental, also storm would be able to sense if Sue were striking at her through the change in air currents. Storm could easily gain an advantage over By the Fact that Sue has to see what in order to properly direct her powers. One could thick Fog from Storm, or Flash Flood, or Heavy Storm could render her vision impaired and give Storm the easy advantage. A shielded or invisible Sue during any of those would easily give away her position without compromising Storm's and Storm could strike at her wearing her down. Another thing that you might be negating with lighting Strike is they can generate a lot of Light which could momentarily Blind, or If Storm created a thunderclap to break Sue's concentration. Also if Sue is swept up in Storm's Tornado it would very her for her to concentrate while being spun around and also assaulted by her tornado at the same time.

There is also the fact that Sue's forcefield does let in air, which storm can manipulate. If Storm is able to use her wind powers with Sue's forcefield controlling the air outside of the field, then the reverse should be true. If Sue simply made herself invisible, this would give her a chance. Sue has a Strong will but not Stronger than Storms.

So if Storm's first action is to change the field limiting or negating Sue's vision, Storm will undoubtedly win.

I in fact change my vote Storm would win the majority of the encounters with Sue Storm. Storm has a faster reaction time than Sue, has way more ways to disorient or completely make the use of Sue's powers ineffective, basically blinding her at the beginning of the fight. Whether that be, Fog, Heavy Storm, Lighting Flashes, Trapping her in a tornado, manipulating the air Sue breaths. While Sue could KO with blunt force, Storm also has the tactical advantage in the fight being the better skilled fighting, and using her field to her advantage.

#44 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: i think Storm can create a hurricane or tornado to destroy the force field. or just keep it going untill Sue runs out of power because she'll be busy sustaining that force field. In this fight i see Sue being on the Defensive and Storm on the offensive.

#45 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

The only time that Storm used her powers through Sue's shield was when they were working together. Never in an adversarial manner. Telekinesis, molecular rearrangement, telepathy have all been blocked by her field. No elemental has ever affected the inside of Sue's shied when she did not want them too. None of the attacks you mentioned are going to even dent Sue's field. Sue has contained Johnny's nova blast. Storm has nowhere near that output.

#46 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

@SwordandShields: Sue can make multiple shields and has blocked a lot worse than what Storm can put out.

#47 Posted by TitanTempest (347 posts) - - Show Bio

Sue takes all the x Men out... And the Fantastic four wins, done deal lol

#48 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: but that would be straining her i think. and the tornado isn't going anywhere so Sue will have to sustain that force field otherwise Storm will blast her.

#49 Posted by charlieboy (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

@SwordandShields: Sue can make many forcefields like she recently did those kree soldiers and it doesn't really strain. Sue is very advanced in her powers now.

#50 Posted by protectyournose (908 posts) - - Show Bio

X-Men