Fantastic-Four vs Blue Marvel

Fantastic Four VS Blue Marvel

-Win by any means(no, that does not mean "out of character").

*Bonus Round: Blue Marvel vs Reed Richards with an hour of prep.

Blue Marvel wins, the only person I see being a threat to him, is Sue; however he being faster would definetely be able to deal with her IMO.

Bonus round:

By feats Reed, he has way more to prove etc; however by statements etc Blue Marvel is the slightly superior intellect.

FF Wins, Sue has been upgraded since the Old Days, so has Johnny Storm. Thing can Keep Marvel busy.

Anyway with an hour of prep Reed pulls out some silly plot device, he has a bunch of silly OP equipment in his lab. Really no telling what he could seemingly pull out of his butt.

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By feats Reed, he has way more to prove etc; however by statements etc Blue Marvel is the slightly superior intellect.

By what statements?

This.

F4

F4

@lukehero: The thing is weak compared to Blue Marvel, he gets KO'd into space.'

Blue Marvel is supposedly one of the smartest etc, however he lacks feat to be put on the level of Reed yet.

I don't see how a guy, who is capable of handiling a team of characters like Sentry, Wonderman, Ms Marvel, Ares and Ironman; would loose to the F4....

He's gonna kill The Thing?

The Thing has fought stronger opponents than Blue Marvel, he can keep him busy and open him up for his teammates.

What statements or feats even put him close to the top 25, or even top 50?

You realize how many characters have more genius feats than Blue Marvel? I'm interested what the statements are?

Win by any means(no, that does not mean "out of character").

@lukehero: He only needs to KO him, or get rid if him etc.

A guy who can 3 hit KH, will be able to easily do damage and beat the Thing; they are not in the same league.

I agree, BM doesn't have enough feats to put him on par yet, however he is supposed to be a genius, with a PHD, being a Proffesor etc; and even Spider-man impressed with his intelligence and work etc, being smart enough to be able to deal with Anti-matter on the quark level; however Reed is smarter by feats for sure.

Blue Marvel round one, Reed round two.

Fair Enough: But...

All Thin has to do is keep him busy, I doubt Blue Marvel will risk killing Ben. Sue & Human Torch will slam him with attacks. Sue cuts off his air with an invisible bubble.

Impressing Spiderman isn't really a feat. Dealing with antimatter is OK, but wouldn't put him over the tons of Marvel Scientists & Brains who have better and more feats. Everyone from Mad Thinker, to The Leader, to Mr. Sinister, to Hank Mccoy have better feats.

@lukehero: Blue Marvel won't kill Ben I think, but will easily dispatch of him, one way or another.

Human Torch won't do much, other than be down quick.

Blue Marvel doesn't need oxygen, and can survive easily in the vacuum of space.

I agree, feat wise he isn't 10 or top 20; however statement wise, he would be easily that level.

@kingant27: I don't think breathing in space = does not need to breath. Ms Marvel can survive in space she still needs to breath, just to give an example. Is there something in his Marvel handbook that says he doesn't need to breathe specifically stating he doesn't need oxygen?

Also Superman needs to breathe, but can survive in space without air for a long time.

Superman #677.

Even though there are examples of him doing stuff like this.

There are several instances where Superman is clearly talking in space, then there are others where he admits or is shown holding his breath. Mongul trained Superman on how to hold his breath before the Imperiax Wars for deep space battles.

Read this panel, basically "Breathing In Space" doesn't really mean you don't need air, since really it's impossible to breathe in space.

I agree, feat wise he isn't 10 or top 20; however statement wise, he would be easily that level.

Not really, you would at least need a statement from a Narrator or someone who is actually top 25 to confirm it.

@lukehero: I think that's bad writing for Superman, as it's constantly debated whether he can or cannot.

However if BM was for instance worried about not breathing etc, I'm pretty sure, he would deal with her via manipulation her, or possibly killing her; if it gets to that stage...

Also as Blood-Lust isn't on, she will not do that straight away, and even a holding back BM punched Sentry into orbit.

How I see it happening, would be after Jonny and Ben start getting cocky etc, then he takes them all out.

@lukehero: Superman needing air is kind of an inconsistency:

During the worlds collide crossover in Icon #16 superman said he doesn't need to breathe:

I recall him saying he can breathe in space in a free comic book day issue of superman.

@jashro44: I gottcha, and I've seen the debates and totally get it, but my point is unless there is something in his handbook or something or in his comic saying Blue Marvel doesn't need Oxygen, we can't just assume it just because he is shown breathing in space.

Blue Marvel isn't killing fellow superheroes, unless you have some examples? Come on now.

He knows the FF aren't stone cold killers, at worst he's gonna wake up feeling embarrassed he lost a fight.

How often does he really use matter manipulation? What would he do that her shields couldn't block?

Is there something in his Handbook on comic that says he doesn't need oxygen? There are a lot of characters shown breathing in space, then later on shown needing oxygen. Characters that don't need to breath Oxygen in marvel are 99% directly labeled so by Marvel.

@lukehero: Oh OK I wasn't really following the discussion. I just saw the scans of superman and read that comment.

@lukehero: I never said he was, however if he Sue was trying kill him, I'm pretty sure he would quickly dispatch of her.

You think he would loose, because he knows there morals; that's not a good enough reason.

BM has his own shields you know, that are effortlessly able to take KH atomic vision at point black range; without a scratch.

He could also put a shield round them, or BFR or KO them.

I will reply tommorow.

@kingant27: Cutting off his air wouldn't kill him. It would just knock him out. It's like putting someone in a choke hold.

When did I say he would lose due to morals? I said he wouldn't be willing to fight to the death with non killer superheroes. He's gonna murder the FF just so he won't lose a random fight?

Sue shields have blocked attacks from Celestials.

I hear ya mate.

@lukehero: If you can survive in the vacuum of space, without the need for oxygen, in pretty sure characters like him and Superman; either don't need to breath, or can go in space for long periods of time without air etc.

It's a random fight, but most likely he will win, he has the intellect and the physical abilities to deal with them.

Blue Marvel is also faster, so I think it comes down to Sue vs BM in who does what; or how BM wants to deal with them.

Umm, do you have an on panel how long he can survive without air?

Again I don't want to go in circles, but unless you have it on panel or in the handbook sayin BM doesn't need air, then that's not an assumption you can make just because you see him floating in space.

Justice League Superman(Cartoon) was shown fighting in space, then later on was shown that he needed a space suit and oxygen. That's just how wonky comic book world works.

Sue only needs a thought, and he will be busy with attacks from Johnny who is very fast and he'll have to knock out thing(even though thing is slow, he'll still have to deal with him).

Sue can use her TK to press the air out of his lungs, and wrap his head in a bubble. She doesn't have to kill him. She knocks him out.

BM wins. None of them can survive a punch or beam and can't really hurt him.

FF in a good fight.

ff

Idk how ff would handle bm. Im just not seeing it at all. Thing would die. Insta bfr. Sue and johnny are the real players here but im not seeing them handling the speeds. Or for that matter doing the damage. The hits hes tanked are no joke. I just cant see ff doing anything i dont know. I think they'd get wrecked.

This.

Could go either way

Blue Marvel wins round 1.

Reed wins prep wise IMO.

Thing would easily get knocked around, Johnny's heat shouldn't do much, Mr.Fantastic gets stretched apart, and Sue is the only real problem, although Blue Marvel can simply fire Antimatter blasts to destroy her forcefields. Reed probably can't take him with an hour of preparation.

Seriously Thing will get uppercutted into the stratosphere.

F4

Team work and versatility. F4 is a great example of the whole being greater than the parts.

F4

in what world is this fair? he would beat the tar out of them. he kills them easily.

it's funny that most of the people on here picked the ff. he could kill them before they formed a thought.

Bloodlusted Brashear one-shots everyone on the team.

Round 1: Blue Marvel

For round two, both are geniuses. I'm not sure where Adam ranks in the top 10 for Marvel but I think he's very high up (above Beast). He's also the expert on anti-matter in the universe so he knows more about his powers and weaknesses than anyone not named Uatu. Reed though isn't a slouch in anything, and I'm sure he has some contingencies in place if Sentry were to snap that he could implement against him. The deciding factor here is that it is only an hour's prep. If it was longer I could see Reed thinking something up, but without more time his only real option is BFR'ing Blue Marvel [NOT to the Negative Zone], maybe to another dimension.

Round 2: Blue Marvel

F4