ALL team members chosen to be energy projectors will only have their energy related powers if there are more, no matter what limitiations are mentioned.
ALL force projectors will be able only to project forces within the purview of this part of their power to the limits that it would extend. No energy or physical powers they possess will come into play , no matter what limitiations are mentioned.
All Bricks will have only their physical powers (strength, speed, agility, endurance, resilience, shape/size changing, alteration to physical aspects , no matter what limitiations are mentioned..
In each battle. team one is the protagonist seeking to attack team two who are in the Baxter building. Team two has the full access to all weapons, defenses and instruments in the Baxter building. Team two has been spending the last 12 hours using this equipment to track down and prepare for an assault from team 2, having hears they are on the loose.. Team one has been spent the last 24 hours in prep to make this assault.
All characters are in character (character motivations and flaws can be used against them). No teledismenberment. Win by all conventional means bar BFR (you can BFR characters but this will not count as a win, to win you must defeat all characters of the opposing team).
If anyone feels that the rules are being bent in their battles PM me and i will look at it.
All players are to set up their own battle thread and post a link in this one.
Debates will proceed for the next 4 days (96 to 120 hours from now) At which point I will call for voting. Once I call voting NO FURTHER DEBATE CAN BE ALLOWED. Voting will be for 36 to 40 hours
Ray and Stargirl will cause the defense sensors within the Baxter Building to have false activations throughout the building (manipulating light by Ray, Gravity by Courtney). causing my opposition to investigate or divert resources away from the actual task at hand (namely taking me down).
Sargon lays hands upon the building, using his tactile magic to make the very building a additional team mate. the walls of the building begin to attack my opposition. this has the added advantage that when the Engineer tries to incorporate the building into her make up it will give Sargon control over her as well.
Nulkon phases through the building to make a sneak attack and one shot Shehulk and Cyclops. Neither of them can touch him with his reduced molecular density and he can easily therefore take both down with either an increased mass super strong punch or partially solidifying in their cerebellum to cause unconsciousness.
Sargon then takes on the Engineer one on one. As he get's closer having touched more and more in the area everything the engineer could possibly use against him is now more likely to allow him control. the Engineer is now fighting for control of her own form.
That leaves Ganthet to face the rest of my team. His force powers are certaimly strong, but will falter facing up to Courtney's gravity manipulation, Ray's near "limitless" light energy, and the Strength of Nuklon combined with his ability to alter his mass size and molecular density. I simultaneous strike by Nuklon with his full 100 foot tall maxed out mass increased density coinciding with Ray giving him everything he's got and Courtney hitting him with force fields from her Star rod will be enough to eventually make him fall.
Again, BlackAdamFTW, well wishing is okay but until you have heard them argue you cannot determine a winner. Debates are all about the arguments presented and the arguments refuted. Your personal opinion on the battle is irrelevant, only your opinion on what each debater has said is relevant.
ok. here we go.....despite Nuklon's density alteration, cyclops barrages him with blasts, and as he is focusing on Scott...she-hulk grips Al up and pummels him into subconcious mercicessly. ganthet encloses Ray in an energy construct bubble, emgineer relases nano-bots into it, they enter Rays brain and render him inert, drooling as Ganthet shakes his head in dis-taste at the tactic. Courtney sees this and comes chargin, blasting away w/ her cosmic rod, gathet shields them, send back a barrage of his own, and cyclops knocks her unconcious w/ a pulse blast from the side as the same time she-hulk slams the ground, providing a double-whammy. the rest of the team converge on sargon, and after a tough, drawn out game of cat and mouse....Ganthet and Engineer are the only two standing. they look at each other and say "that was interesting!".
1. ok. here we go.....despite Nuklon's density alteration, cyclops barrages him with blasts, and as he is focusing on Scott.she-hulk grips Al up and pummels him into subconcious mercicessly.
2.ganthet encloses Ray in an energy construct bubble,
3.emgineer relases nano-bots into it, they enter Rays brain and render him inert, drooling as Ganthet shakes his head in dis-taste at the tactic. 4. Courtney sees this and comes chargin, blasting away w/ her cosmic rod, gathet shields them, send back a barrage of his own, and cyclops knocks her unconcious w/ a pulse blast from the side as the same time she-hulk slams the ground, providing a double-whammy.
5. the rest of the team converge on sargon, and after a tough, drawn out game of cat and mouse....Ganthet and Engineer are the only two standing. they look at each other and say "that was interesting!".
1. You seem to have forgotten that all your team are busily fighting their own base attacking them. While I don't doubt they could go on the attack quickly once they realize that they are under attack (and may even be alerted and ready due to the pre measures of alarm activations) there is still the fact that they will be reacting and will not start of double teaming one player. The whole premise of my attack is that Scott and Jen are busy fighting the animated walls attacking them and are blind sided by Nuklon coming at them from a direction they were not prepared for (namely through a wall to their back) He will hit Scott first (recognizing him as the greater threat). Jen would be stronger than Nuklon by a bit but when he throws a punch at full strength with his mass increased she's at least getting knocked down for a bit.Once he increases his size (to also maximize his strength) added to his strength and increased mass he will come up with the win in the end.
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2 .Not sure how well that energy construct is going to hold up (assuming he can create it quickly enough) Ray's energy out put has been described as limitless. He's also been referred to as the MOST powerful JLAer. If Ganthet's force field was enough to contain Ray he would be blasting like Hell to get out.
3.No way is any nanobot lasting long enough to get any where near entering his body, they'd be slag LONG before that. Not to mention that the Ray is an energy form how would nanobot get into his light state, how would Ganthet's field contain the various wavelengths of light that make up his form.
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4.Why would Courtney "come charging". he is armed with two weapons that allow her to strike from a distance. her cosmic converter belt has a force field that she can project as force. Her cosmic rod also, not to mention it's control over magnetic and gravitational forces. Yes she wont have the enhanced strength etc the the cosmic converter gives her, or the energy manipulation that the cosmic rod does. Both however have shown under all previous and current owners to be able to produce force constructs equal to those of Alan Scott's ring. It's highly unlikely even if the likes of Cyclops and and She-hulk last long enough to get this far that even their combined assaults would take Courtney down easily. They would still have a fight on their hands and that's without Sargon or the others who would still be in this.
5. Interesting that you choose to hold off against possibly my most versatile team member who is also the most vulnerable. Physically if he is taken to directly Sargon would go down the easiest of all my team. He can heal himself but that would require his focus not be on the fight. Since really he can fight with his animated objects from afar that's his best chance.
@beatboks1: Ok, in response to your points : 1) yes, Jen and Scott may b slightly distarcte, but Jen is familiar w/ th baxter building from her time w the FF and is not throw off much. An to Scott this pales in comparison to s danger room setting so he can quickly adapt and see the true threat. No matter how much Nuklon increases, h is a watered down version of the Vision, whom she-hulk has much experience with. he durability, vstly superior strength, and combat experience is what sets her apart in this match-up. ad Scott is a sesoned vetran of multiple, chaotic, battle environments. They take Nuklon out rather esily, but not tooo easily.
2) Ganthet is a Guardian. hi reaction time and understanding of others powerlevels/awareness are second to none. He totally knows what to do, and as far as how powerful Ray is (agreed, he is), Ganthet knos what to do to adjust to this (he single handedly took on the vast majority of the corps by himself at one point in war of the green lanterns)....his constructs WILL hold and be sufficient
3) Once again, Ganthet will compensate, his construct will hold, and he can agument engineer w/ assistance. also her powers are veristile enough to affect Ray. she is the highest level technomorph/technopath her nano-bots attack ray on a electromagnetic and multiple energy wavelength basis, rendering him inert.
4) Namely due to Courtney being young and passionate. She would want to overpower her opponents, and b as offensive as possible, but would fall against th likes of Cyclops and she-hulks experience and higher power levels. they do take her out, she gets overwhelmed.
5) my team realize that Sargon is the weakest and focus on th stronger members first. As I said, he is taken care of by Engineer and Ganthet.
I'm sorry to say that these guys take yours out. Ray i the toughest, and a challange. Imagine if I had used Solar man of the atom....wew. He is seriously no joke....uber powerful.
@beatboks1: Ok, in response to your points : 1) yes, Jen and Scott may b slightly distarcte, but Jen is familiar w/ th baxter building from her time w the FF and is not throw off much. An to Scott this pales in comparison to s danger room setting so he can quickly adapt and see the true threat. No matter how much Nuklon increases, h is a watered down version of the Vision, whom she-hulk has much experience with. he durability, vstly superior strength, and combat experience is what sets her apart in this match-up. ad Scott is a sesoned vetran of multiple, chaotic, battle environments. They take Nuklon out rather esily, but not tooo easily.
2) Ganthet is a Guardian. hi reaction time and understanding of others powerlevels/awareness are second to none. He totally knows what to do, and as far as how powerful Ray is (agreed, he is), Ganthet knos what to do to adjust to this (he single handedly took on the vast majority of the corps by himself at one point in war of the green lanterns)....his constructs WILL hold and be sufficient
3) Once again, Ganthet will compensate, his construct will hold, and he can agument engineer w/ assistance. also her powers are veristile enough to affect Ray. she is the highest level technomorph/technopath her nano-bots attack ray on a electromagnetic and multiple energy wavelength basis, rendering him inert.
4) Namely due to Courtney being young and passionate. She would want to overpower her opponents, and b as offensive as possible, but would fall against th likes of Cyclops and she-hulks experience and higher power levels. they do take her out, she gets overwhelmed.
5) my team realize that Sargon is the weakest and focus on th stronger members first. As I said, he is taken care of by Engineer and Ganthet.
I'm sorry to say that these guys take yours out. Ray i the toughest, and a challange. Imagine if I had used Solar man of the atom....wew. He is seriously no joke....uber powerful.
1. a) how does being familiar with the Baxter building in any way prepare you for it attacking you (something it has never done before therefore your familiarity is meaningless).
b) I don't care how quickly you can adapt you still have to defend yourself from attacking walls, floors etc you can't completely focus on the opponent who is the "real threat" when your still in danger from the "non real threat" that is just as dangerous.
c) SERIOUSLY when Vision can take blows from Black Adam, knock him through the air, take on Martian Manhunter, and squash a jeep speeding at him, ripple war ships like paper, pluck sonic air craft out of the sky at a whim, use his body to shield a comrade from a collapsing building . that's when you can call him the "better version", or refer to Al as a watered down version of him. Let's not forget that without increasing his mass (which he can do) increasing his size (which further increases his strength), or increasing his density Nuklon is physically nearly as strong as She Hulk and as durable. Before he gained the power to grow, and alter mass/density he was easily in Jen's league both in strength and durability. The Jeep scan below was during his debut in A.S.S. where all he had was strength and durability. So was the fight with Commander steel. He goes one on one with a powerful version of Grundy, punches BA through a skylight and into the air, and grabs a fighter jet out of the sky (you do know what sort of strength it would take to pluck a sonic craft out of the sky like that, not to mention buckle the armor plating of war ships like paper don't you. Nuklon even with out his molecular/size control could tank most of what these two could dish out. with it they have no hope of taking him down even if he was their sole focus (which he can't be if there are other players involved.
I decided to leave these scans big so you could see them. v v
During Crisis a building collapsing on Hourman ( who has enhanced durability) Al dives over him to shield him from the collapsing building/hospital)
With his strength alone he held a construct Blood lusted Alan Scot's ring open for some time. Even fury the daughter of Wonder Woman couldn't budge it.
2. Taking on the corps who get their powers from the Guardians (of which Ganthet is one) hardly equates to defeating other powerful beings easily. Unlike the Corps Ray's power is not sourced from Ganthet in any way. Sorry that argument is just invalid. Ray was able to absorb all the light in a dimension and use it to breach the dimension to release an entity far more powerful than Ganthet that wasn't able to release himself. Let's not forget that ganthet's energy is "light based" so Ray can simply absorb it as well to some degree.
3. Ganthet can't compensate and Engineers nanobots will be fried to slag before they ever get near ray. Not to mention that hte only way they can is if there is a way through the "construct" of Ganthet's holding Ray contained. If their is than Rays energy blasts have already beaten both of them before the nanobots can do jack (a force shield has to work both ways). Another invalid argument.
4. Courtney may be young but she's far from inexperienced. She didn't rush in like a fool when she was. her earliest appearance in JSA saw her taking on Mordru (who's a hell of a lot MORE powerful than anyone on your team even without their restrictions in this battle) when she only had the cosmic converter blet. She didn't rush in then, she waited for an opening. In her latest appearances in JSA All Stars she acted like an old hand. Also how in god's name can you claim with a straight face that Scot and Jen have higher power levels than her. her cosmic rod has been shown many times to create force constructs on the level of Alan Scot. he's more powerful than any other GL and leagues above all on your team save Ganthet, and even he's on an even pegging.
5. I never said Sargon was the weakest link . he's not, he's easily the most valuable member of my team he just happens to be the most vulnerable. Remember Sargon by mere touch his Ruby of Life animates anything he wants and give him complete control. That potentially means that he could make 100's of things living weapons against his enemies. I doubt he could control that many at once but potentially he can fight using anything at hand He can touch a weapon in the building and make it walk and fight for him, every bit of furniture in a room he can get to. The cloths on an enemies back.
Your whole strategy has a gigantic flaw in it. Your attack plan is to have two members Double team one of mine while the other two double team another leaving two to attack you from where ever unfettered. Not to mention both the two your leaving are able to attack from a distance with greater effect and efficiency than most of your team members. Going with this strategy will see you loose two or three of your team before you've managed to drop even one of mine. Nulkon can tank or simply avoid with intangibility any attack either or both Scot and Jan can mount, certainly long enough for either Stargirl or Sargon to take them down from behind and afar. Not to mention that if Al went full 100 foot tall with his molecular density maxed out (the increased strength that gives him) using his most powerful blow WITH increasing his mass to max, could one shot both.
Similarly teaming up on ray leaves the others open to attack from behind. Easiest win for me, while you mount your two on ones, Sargon get's behind Engineer touches him and then her controls her and her nanobots. Suddenly even if all your team's on their feet it's 5 to three and that's not counting whatever else Sargon has animated.
@beatboks1: ok.I am compiling my rebuttal, it will have to wait till later, when I am at home so i can post pics to back up my statements. I am enjoying this very much though!!!
@nickthedevil: Did you get a PM saying it was deleted? It should be an auto-alert 'your topic was deleted' and it would be sent from the mod who deleted it. Otherwise, there is a bug where topics occasionally go missing.
Yea. This is the second time it's happened to one of my topics. And also: no i didn't get a message. It was most likely a bug. I see no reason as to why it would have been deleted anywho.
My opponent hasn't showed, however. So nothing was really lost. I had just gone back through the pages of the forum to bump it, so that maybe they would come and put up a debate, but when i found it and clicked it, my computer kind of froze and then it told me 404. When i went back to the page with my battle thread, it was no longer there
My opponent hasn't showed, however. So nothing was really lost. I had just gone back through the pages of the forum to bump it, so that maybe they would come and put up a debate, but when i found it and clicked it, my computer kind of froze and then it told me 404. When i went back to the page with my battle thread, it was no longer there
To be fair, teamextraordinary15 though he had no opponent for this round. When I last checked he hadn't been on since noticing that, and he hasn't been as active lately (used to be a big Tourney player like retnex, dedman, prodigy, Sherlock and myself - probably gettin active again because of the amount of tourney's flying around ATM).
@cosmicallyaware1:
@beatboks1
: in response: the feats shown for nuklon/atom smasher....impressive for a 20-50 tonner. she-hulk has surpassed all those feats quite some time ago. debris from a falling building, stopping a jeep, etc.....even the supposed "big deal" of punching black adam through a skylight? ok....in reference to that feat.....sucker punch, not that impressive....yah, black adam is strong.....so? se hulk defeated the Champion...an elder of the universe, w/ the power gem...and he was aware of what was up. she ripped the vision in half, and has had numerous more feats that dwarf atom-smashers....
That's right most of those feats (Jeep, battle ship, Comm Steel) were when he was around a 50 toner, I SPECIFIED that they were before his upgrade when he gained the ability to increase his size (which further increases his strength) and molecular density. Both these things along with his ability to increase his actual mass as well add to these mere strength and durability feats. When he increases his size his strength also increases. The example of catching the jet is a perfect one. A fully loaded jet fighter weighs about 12 tons, one without fuel or weapons 8.5 lets say it's 9 and call it square. They move at up to mach 16 or 5445 m/sec. it was taking off so likely .5mach so 180m/s. F= MA so the force applied to pluck the fighter is 1.6 million newtons. reversing that equation to put that force into making something accelerate against the force of gravity is just over 80 ton (f= ma so m = f/a the a would have to be over 20m/s to counter nearly 10 m/s gravity at a reasonable lift as 10 would mean holding).
So I guess the feats are quite a lot better than you believe. As to the building collapsing on him, It was an 8 story hospital in the tale an average building weighs 10 to 12 ton per floor (that's without equipment etc which a hospital would have heaps) to he can tank the equivalent of an 80 to 100 ton blow. As I said in set up I thought She-hulk was too powerful, Citizen bane approved her because he said I was wrong. If your now saying that she is indeed over 100toner (against the rules) which she clearly would have to be to take Nuklon down than I have to question the authenticity of that.
Also as for the sucker punch there are several others where Adam was ready for him and still got punched back. Let's not forget Adam's durability is well above Jen's as is his speed and reaction.
Your whole argument and strategy still has a massive whole in it. If you focus your entire team fighting just two of my guy's first (which may or may not go down in the end but would still be a struggle). Your still leaving yourself wide open to attacks form the other two on my team who are as dangerous or more. Than you will definitely have at least a couple of your team down or compromised before you take out those your focusing on. Even if you successfully take down one or both it will be impossible for you to finish your strategy.
@beatboks1: I definately feel that while Al is no slouch, she-hulk had the experience and feats to effictevely counteract him, she has proven time and time again her durability and versatility against opponents. I see, and agree w/ your diddection of my strategy, allow me to elaborate...................... seeing the battle unfold and immediately realizing Ray, courtney and Sargon's abilities Ganthet kicks it into high gear in conjuction w/ engineer. Ganthet barrages w/ very high powered attacks on multiple fronts, also flooding the area w/ consructs. His intense attacks have the majority of your team on the severe defensive taking the focus away. Engineer uses her Nanite fabricating abilities to make roughly 50 duplicates of herself which are all exact power levels of herself.Also, due to her nanite sensors acting as a security field that are highly sensitive to environment changes, and seeing Sargon's powers working, they make sure to stay away from his touch and are working w/ Ganthet to wear down your opponents. When Ganthet has Ray briefly enclosed, the Nanites quickly have spread out due to angie's technopathy and the nanites are small enough to slip between atoms...it doesn't matter what form of energy Ray is, and her technopathy easily manifests into a form of electrical and energy manipulation that jumbles ray up and disrupts him enough for nanite infection.
@beatboks1: I definately feel that while Al is no slouch, she-hulk had the experience and feats to effictevely counteract him, she has proven time and time again her durability and versatility against opponents.
I see, and agree w/ your diddection of my strategy, allow me to elaborate...................... seeing the battle unfold and immediately realizing Ray, courtney and Sargon's abilities Ganthet kicks it into high gear in conjuction w/ engineer. Ganthet barrages w/ very high powered attacks on multiple fronts, also flooding the area w/ consructs.
His intense attacks have the majority of your team on the severe defensive taking the focus away. Engineer uses her Nanite fabricating abilities to make roughly 50 duplicates of herself which are all exact power levels of herself.Also, due to her nanite sensors acting as a security field that are highly sensitive to environment changes, and seeing Sargon's powers working, they make sure to stay away from his touch and are working w/ Ganthet to wear down your opponents.
When Ganthet has Ray briefly enclosed, the Nanites quickly have spread out due to angie's technopathy and the nanites are small enough to slip between atoms...it doesn't matter what form of energy Ray is, and her technopathy easily manifests into a form of electrical and energy manipulation that jumbles ray up and disrupts him enough for nanite infection.
That's right, Nuklon is no slouch. He's not quite in Jen's league physically (except when he grows he would be close to her equal at between 60 to 100 feet tall) but with his other abilities of being ably to increase his mass (make himself heavier) and more or less dense dense he will trouble her. He can also take her blows for a bit as well as Scott's. So the initial idea you had of them quickly finishing him definitely wont fly. they could take him but not without a fight.
Nice to see you finally see the issues your strategy has. The only problem with this response is you forgetting my "surprise" attack. How I'm deliberately directing your attention elsewhere by making you respond to first the alarms than other animated things attacking. All this is to have you on the defense NOT actually fighting my team. By the time Ganthet or anyone else is able to do anything they are already on the defense in several directions. Those highly sensitive nanite sensors are only going to make it more likely that your team has committed resources where they aren't needed. Your also working on the assumption that they are even going to see Sargon. His best attack would be to do so with animated things from afar. Even if he is actually present, he often uses his power to control things he touched before the battle. There's no reason what soever to simply assume that it will be obvious.
He only needs to think about commanding something he has touched.
I fail to see how I'm on the defensive when you've not explained yet how you get off it.
None of which explains how they are going to reach Ray when he's intensely attacking and meting them before they get near him to do what you say
Sorry for the delay in responce (three post attempts have failed) 9 and a half hours left before voting make closing argument
*Edit* I'm an idiot I've been re-posting anfd reposting and getting p@$# at them bot working, only to go back to page one and see I posted teh last post there and the first one her ( flood protection at work).
Closing argument.
On sheer power our teams are fairly evenly matched, what one looses in the swings the gain in the roundabouts.
Jen (She-hulk) is stronger than Nuklon ( even when he goes a 100 foot tall she'd be just up on him) but since he can increase his mass (weight) and has used this to lay smackdowns that at least affect the likes of Black Adam he can hold his own. Add in his density manip and he can tank her blows by being invulnerable or just not be touched by being intangible. At some point he has to be tangible to fight but can still use this tactic to dodge etc.
Cylcops is a powerful blaster, no doubt but not as powerful as Ray. His blasts wont affect ray that much and Stargirl, and Nuklon are both capable of tanking them.
Ganthet is very powerful, but Courtney is no slouch.The force fields of her cosmic rod have proven to be as powerful as Alan Scott on many occasions. The argument that because of her youth she will rush in doesn't fly, she's been around for some time and is quite experienced. Not to mention that when she first became a JSAer when she was a neophyte she showed much restraint and control. She hid in the shadows when the JSA fought Mordru waiting for just the right time to strike. her force fields would also contain or tank anyone on the opposing team.
Engineer is a very versatile utility character but not more so than Sargon. With Sargon's power he can fight without actually putting himself at too much risk. Not to mention if any in my team do get harmed he can heal them with a touch.
The difference in this battle is the tactics. cosmicallyaware has had no answer to my proposed sneak attack or misdirection. In fact his counter attack acts as if there is no misdirection and completely ignores the dangers his team face having to fight their own environment. Many of the attacks he suggest have IMO questionable chance of success. Yes I'm sure the nanites could affect Ray's light form but how do they get nera enough to him through his powerful blasts to affect him
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