While I'd like to see Jean/Phoenix fall off the divinity/cosmic entity pedestal, I cant however deny that she is the superior combatant here. Now if Raven was to take out her father and take over his role and powers...
yeah but were not talking about that white phoenix obliterates and even if raven got trigons powers she still would not win your not making sense at all confused guy
@bossmoss4l: relatively yes. White Phoenix is the most powerful version of Phoenix. White Phoenix is one of the most powerful things ever and she absolutely obliderates Raven. and Trigon wont even hurt White Phoenix so... but yeah this is a stomp
@kidman560 While I question how something can be Relatively Omniversal because it seems like a binary system, thanks for confirming my knowledge =) and my thought that this is a stomp.
@kidman560 While I question how something can be Relatively Omniversal because it seems like a binary system, thanks for confirming my knowledge =) and my thought that this is a stomp.
The Phoenix entity itself does in fact extend to the other Marvel universes, however Jean Grey has only displayed universal level power as White Phoenix(holding the 616 universe with her TK from the White Room). Just in case you were wondering.
@kidman560 While I question how something can be Relatively Omniversal because it seems like a binary system, thanks for confirming my knowledge =) and my thought that this is a stomp.
The Phoenix entity itself does in fact extend to the other Marvel universes, however Jean Grey has only displayed universal level power as White Phoenix(holding the 616 universe with her TK from the White Room). Just in case you were wondering.
Jean did not hold the universe literally, it was an artistic rendition.
@kidman560 While I question how something can be Relatively Omniversal because it seems like a binary system, thanks for confirming my knowledge =) and my thought that this is a stomp.
The Phoenix entity itself does in fact extend to the other Marvel universes, however Jean Grey has only displayed universal level power as White Phoenix(holding the 616 universe with her TK from the White Room). Just in case you were wondering.
Jean did not hold the universe literally, it was an artistic rendition.
The writer was pretty clear in illustrating how Jean's power extended to a Universal level at the time.
@kidman560 While I question how something can be Relatively Omniversal because it seems like a binary system, thanks for confirming my knowledge =) and my thought that this is a stomp.
The Phoenix entity itself does in fact extend to the other Marvel universes, however Jean Grey has only displayed universal level power as White Phoenix(holding the 616 universe with her TK from the White Room). Just in case you were wondering.
Jean did not hold the universe literally, it was an artistic rendition.
The writer was pretty clear in illustrating how Jean's power extended to a Universal level at the time.
how? when she herself was questioning what was in her hand? if she were in fact performing the feat, she would of known, Morrison even explains the symbolism in the bio. She did not manipulate the universe atomically.
ummm phoenix blows up universes um you said that if she had trigons power..... were not talking about that thank you if you want to make a jean grey vs trigon but this is not the topic thank you and white phoenix did not get beaten by galactus this is white phoenix version so please read what you say because as you can see you are wrong thank you very much
the exact opposite was stated in the bio, from x-men phoenix force handbook:
"allowing her to manipulate atomic structures on a universal scale"
to confirm this, here's the entire relevant page of the bio so you can see it for yourself (see abilities/accessories)
how does that in any way support the the notion of the "holding the universe" feat from HTC? many beings can manipulate matter on a universal scale, Franklin Richards is one, it has been stated so. There is no reference to HTC from any of these readings.
how does that in any way support the the notion of the "holding the universe" feat from HTC? many beings can manipulate matter on a universal scale, Franklin Richards is one, it has been stated so. There is no reference to HTC from any of these readings.
i was replying in regards to your comment of 'she did not manipulate the universe atomically'. The bio i posted says otherwise. Anyway, it was stated on panel that she held a badly wounded orphan universe. From New X-Men #154
Gallery
the symbolism however, was a reference to how she healed the universe, here's a 2005 bio:
she healed the universe by symbolically watering it with her heart's blood (this is what the symbolism is attributed to), and this is shown in the second scan i posted above, particularly this part:
And then another bio (and it's a recent one, 2010) which i already posted says that she manipulated the universe atomically:
how does that in any way support the the notion of the "holding the universe" feat from HTC? many beings can manipulate matter on a universal scale, Franklin Richards is one, it has been stated so. There is no reference to HTC from any of these readings.
i was replying in regards to your comment of 'she did not manipulate the universe atomically'. The bio i posted says otherwise. Anyway, it was stated on panel that she held a badly wounded orphan universe. From New X-Men #154
Gallery
the symbolism however, was a reference to how she healed the universe, here's a 2005 bio:
she healed the universe by symbolically watering it with her heart's blood (this is what the symbolism is attributed to), and this is shown in the second scan i posted above, particularly this part:
And then another bio (and it's a recent one, 2010) which i already posted says that she manipulated the universe atomically:
the feat is universal.
that still does not suggest she telekinetically atomized the universe into her hand, for one "extracting sublime's essence" is what healed the timeline, secondly "watering the universe with her hearts blood" is when she was willing to allow Scott to stay with Emma via telepathic suggestion.
It clearly states so friend.
Edit:
Moreover "telekinetic control of all of those atoms at once" was a reference to sublime's atoms, due her extracting it out of the timeline, which I recall happened exactly one panel prior. It could of not have been referencing the universe, because when that statement was made there was no "orphaned universe" in her hands.
Furthermore the manifestation of the image in her hands also does not support the claim of her consciously even doing such a thing because Jean herself ask what was in her hands. That does not even suggest she telekinetically manipulated those atoms given her state of confusion/questioning.
that still does not suggest she telekinetically atomized the universe into her hand,
so what evidence is there that she did not control the universe atomically? i gave you the evidence to support my claim. Ok, She wasn't certain what was in her hands, but the phoenix force itself was, it clearly says that what she holds is an orphan universe. Your counterargument was that she wasn't literally holding the universe, but rather symbolically, correct? well, the handbook mentions nothing of the sort, nor does the issue, what is symbolic is how she healed the universe not the universe itself. I gave you the on panel evidence, and 2 bios to support this. Not sure what you want more.
Extracting sublime's essence disinfected the timeline/reality (see bio, i won't post it again) and it was mentioned on panel as well:
Gallery
then:
"Phoenix disinfection successful"
Same page, last panel, the force says " now heal wound, make better future grow quick".
And then she goes on and heals the universe.
also, this is evident in this statement "if you want to grow a better future from the one you just cut off"
that's true she did cut away (amputate) the whole future 2 pages prior to this statement (see my first scan).
so, she herself healed the universe, it has nothing to do with sublime.
Moreover "telekinetic control of all of those atoms at once" was a reference to sublime's atoms, due her extracting it out of the timeline, which I recall happened exactly one panel prior. It could of not have been referencing the universe, because when that statement was made there was no "orphaned universe" in her hands.
no, the full statement was "telekinetic control of all those atoms at once isn't as easily as it sounds in training not even for a white phoenix of the crown, quick now", why do you think quick now is added? it's added to suggest that she is going to control all the atoms of the universe at once, which again, is also supported by the 2010 handbook.
Furthermore the manifestation of the image in her hands also does not support the claim of her consciously even doing such a thing because Jean herself ask what was in her hands. That does not even suggest she telekinetically manipulated those atoms given her state of confusion/questioning.
im not basing this just because there was a picture of a universe in her hand, the issue mentions it:
and the recent x-men phoenix force handbook confirms it:
@devilmayraven: @outside_85: like he said he cant even eat the titans hes weak and this is not about trigon its about white phoenix vs evil raven white phoenix would destroy them each combined or apart and you what raven is no match for white phoenix shes to powerful she could just blink her out of exzistence and really this is not about white raven your just like outside 85 make your own thread and last time i checked white raven just had upgraded powers where jean got upgraded ones and new ones
@njones5: Your ignorance shines brightly in that post. Trigon didn't turn the Titans to stone along with the rest of the planet, because they weren't on it. He didn't bother with them when they got back because Raven herself had enough power to deal with them on her own. And even after they actually killed her, he didn't bother with actually fighting them because he had better things to do than fighting fleas that couldn't even harm him.Regardless, my first post here still stands, Evil Raven on her own, won't beat WPOTC.
@outside_85: im so sorry i had no time to put suguar candies on what you said was that evil raven with trigons power can beat wpotc ok then make a thread that says that this is not the one and white phoenix still wins
@njones5: Look, this battle is a spite in Phoenix's favor on its normal term, so much in fact it should be locked. If thats not going to happen I am taking the liberty of making suggestions that level the playing field. If you dont like that, too bad.
@outside_85: ,make your own thread obviously you do not get it your just not man or woman enough to say that phoenix stomps seriously get over yourself
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