Why would Ghost Rider win? And, please don't say Penance Stare. It won't work.
"
GR doesn't need the Penance Stare..He has taken down more powerful demons than Etrigan with sheer brute force.Also Hellfire seems to work on demons as well and burns the soul from the inside.
Without the use of the Penance Stare... GR will have to battle Etrigan with Hellfire. But Etrigan himself has Hellfire and other magical powers... but physically Etrigan totally trumps GR
"Without the use of the Penance Stare... GR will have to battle Etrigan with Hellfire. But Etrigan himself has Hellfire and other magical powers... but physically Etrigan totally trumps GR "
Physically Etrigan does trump GR but I believe GR can enhance his strength..I have seen him beat the classic Avengers including Thor all at the same time without using much hellfire or the Penance Stare.He even caught Thor's Hammer.Dr.Strange claims GR is a mystic force more powerful than he himself.
"Without the use of the Penance Stare... GR will have to battle Etrigan with Hellfire. But Etrigan himself has Hellfire and other magical powers... but physically Etrigan totally trumps GR "
Physically Etrigan does trump GR but I believe GR can enhance his strength..I have seen him beat the classic Avengers including Thor all at the same time without using much hellfire or the Penance Stare.He even caught Thor's Hammer.Dr.Strange claims GR is a mystic force more powerful than he himself."
Oh Wow... the Marvel Directory and Handbook doesnt do Ghost Rider justice then about his physical enhancements then
Why would Ghost Rider win? And, please don't say Penance Stare. It won't work.
"
Explain how it won't work......
I've already said before and own the comic in which he uses the stare on an Angel and thus the Angel turns into a skeleton. Is'nt a Demon just an Angel who's rebelled?
Why would Ghost Rider win? And, please don't say Penance Stare. It won't work.
"
Explain how it won't work......
I've already said before and own the comic in which he uses the stare on an Angel and thus the Angel turns into a skeleton. Is'nt a Demon just an Angel who's rebelled?"
But here is the problem. Angels tend to have different levels of power in each different universe ( Marvel, DC, Wildstorm, Vertigo )... I mean could Ghost Rider use the Penance stare on Asmodel ? Or Michael Demuirgos ? Or even Lucifer Morningstar... and get the same effects as he did against the angel he killed ? I dont know... that could be an issue like when Saint of Killers was able to kill God and Satan in the Vertigo Universe
"Physically Etrigan does trump GR but I believe GR can enhance his strength..I have seen him beat the classic Avengers including Thor all at the same time without using much hellfire or the Penance Stare.He even caught Thor's Hammer.Dr.Strange claims GR is a mystic force more powerful than he himself."
The mystic force is more powerful than himself when Zatharos is unleased. And, I need evidence of GR enhancing his strength. Also, I wanna add that Etrigan is a sorcerer, too. As for strength, he could easily BFR GR. He once knocked Superman to the Moon while going pound for pound with him.
Why would Ghost Rider win? And, please don't say Penance Stare. It won't work.
"
Explain how it won't work......
I've already said before and own the comic in which he uses the stare on an Angel and thus the Angel turns into a skeleton. Is'nt a Demon just an Angel who's rebelled?"
But here is the problem. Angels tend to have different levels of power in each different universe ( Marvel, DC, Wildstorm, Vertigo )... I mean could Ghost Rider use the Penance stare on Asmodel ? Or Michael Demuirgos ? Or even Lucifer Morningstar... and get the same effects as he did against the angel he killed ? I dont know... that could be an issue like when Saint of Killers was able to kill God and Satan in the Vertigo Universe"
True, But Saint of Killers could not kill Cassidy in the Vertigo Universe even with his Divine Colts....Simply because Cassidy (because he is a vampire) is already dead. Saint is'nt exactly the most powerful guy in the universe but regardless, I don't see Etrigan taking this.
Why would Ghost Rider win? And, please don't say Penance Stare. It won't work.
"
Explain how it won't work......
I've already said before and own the comic in which he uses the stare on an Angel and thus the Angel turns into a skeleton. Is'nt a Demon just an Angel who's rebelled?"
But here is the problem. Angels tend to have different levels of power in each different universe ( Marvel, DC, Wildstorm, Vertigo )... I mean could Ghost Rider use the Penance stare on Asmodel ? Or Michael Demuirgos ? Or even Lucifer Morningstar... and get the same effects as he did against the angel he killed ? I dont know... that could be an issue like when Saint of Killers was able to kill God and Satan in the Vertigo Universe"
True, But Saint of Killers could not kill Cassidy in the Vertigo Universe even with his Divine Colts....Simply because Cassidy (because he is a vampire) is already dead. Saint is'nt exactly the most powerful guy in the universe but regardless, I don't see Etrigan taking this.
I've already said before and own the comic in which he uses the stare on an Angel and thus the Angel turns into a skeleton. Is'nt a Demon just an Angel who's rebelled?"
Etrigan cannot die. So, how would it work? Has GR used the Penance Stare on other demons? Just because it worked on an Angel (who isn't supposed to lie) doesn't make it liable.
I know for a fact that he has used it on a man who was possessed"
I don't think it'll work. Not on a Demon like Etrigan. Also, to use the Penance Stare, he would have to get close and immobilize Etrigan first (like he did Strange). He can't just use it outright. Getting close would mean getting knocked of the face of the planet.
Anyway.... To one-up your scans.... (Click the links to see the scans)
Jason should win this He has the advantage in physical strenght and durability Im going to assume this is Blaze Blaze is immortal and also has high durability
but i think etrigan also has him beaten in the magic game
I'm not seeing an actual reason why he can't penance stare Etrigan. He used it on Strange (shown in this thread so it should be clear) and didn't kill him, so it doesn't have to kill someone to be effective. That means that just because Etrigan can't die doesn't mean it won't work on him.
"I'm not seeing an actual reason why he can't penance stare Etrigan. He used it on Strange (shown in this thread so it should be clear) and didn't kill him, so it doesn't have to kill someone to be effective. That means that just because Etrigan can't die doesn't mean it won't work on him."
"I'm not seeing an actual reason why he can't penance stare Etrigan. He used it on Strange (shown in this thread so it should be clear) and didn't kill him, so it doesn't have to kill someone to be effective. That means that just because Etrigan can't die doesn't mean it won't work on him."
THANK YOU!! Thats what said in the first post but it was disregarded.
@Buckshot: Wouldn't GR have to get close to Etrigan to do that, and immobilize him first? Just beacause the Penance Stare would work doesn't mean that GR could be able to pull it off.
"@Buckshot: Wouldn't GR have to get close to Etrigan to do that, and immobilize him first? Just beacause the Penance Stare would work doesn't mean that GR could be able to pull it off."
Then why is it that in other battle threads, the thread always comes to a conclusion just by bringing GR and his stare?
@oldmagic: I'm not worried about other battle threads. They have nothing to do with this one. GR would have to get close to use the Stare on an immobilized Etrigan. It's not gonna be easy since Etrigan physically outclasses him. Getting close would mean getting knocked away.
"I'm not seeing an actual reason why he can't penance stare Etrigan. He used it on Strange (shown in this thread so it should be clear) and didn't kill him, so it doesn't have to kill someone to be effective. That means that just because Etrigan can't die doesn't mean it won't work on him."
it'll hurt him and piss him off making him forgo supernatural combat and simply rip the crap out of Ghost Rider physically...
he's probably do something like tearing his arms off before beating him to death with them before tearing the magic out of his body (As he did to Asphomed in JLI-14) and using it to power his own empire in hell
it'll hurt him and piss him off making him forgo supernatural combat and simply rip the crap out of Ghost Rider physically...
he's probably do something like tearing his arms off before beating him to death with them before tearing the magic out of his body (As he did to Asphomed in JLI-14) and using it to power his own empire in hell
"@Buckshot: Wouldn't GR have to get close to Etrigan to do that, and immobilize him first? Just beacause the Penance Stare would work doesn't mean that GR could be able to pull it off."
I haven't said anything about that. You stated that the Penance Stare wouldn't work. I was trying to find out if that was true and you haven't convinced me.
Two ways I can see it being used though. It could work over distance. (Is there proof that it won't? Has he done it over distance in the past? I'm kinda doubting your knowledge at this point.) Or he might try to hold him with chains. I don't know how tough the chains are, but they're mystical, they might be strong enough. They're also infinite in length so he can keep wrapping as much as he wants. Plus, they burn the souls like the Penance Stare so they could be weakening him too.
Methos said:
it'll hurt him and piss him off making him forgo supernatural combat and simply rip the crap out of Ghost Rider physically...
he's probably do something like tearing his arms off before beating him to death with them before tearing the magic out of his body (As he did to Asphomed in JLI-14) and using it to power his own empire in hell
M"
Or it would weaken him the same way it weakens most others. Unless you can give a reason he won't be hurt as much.
Or it would weaken him the same way it weakens most others. Unless you can give a reason he won't be hurt as much."
from what i know of the penance stare, it basically the victim feel every pain that that individual has ever inflicted on anyone else innocent in their lifetime. Kinda like the soul searing effect of hellfire.
So it would turn around on Etrigan and cause every pain that he has caused on innocents in his lifetime right?
From what i've seen of Etrigan's fights, he rarely injurs or kills innocents as to the binding of Jason Blood's soul to the demon body, any harm that befel an innocent would stain Jason's soul and it and Etrigan would suffer in hell for it regardless of it was Jason or Etrigan that commited the act... of note, it was said in the "Hell on Earth" Specter storyline that Jason's soul is 'unstained', meaning Etrigan / Jason has yet to take an innocent's life, so even minor harm that has occured to innocents during Etrigan's chaos would be very minor compared to Etrigan's healing factor that can handle an incredible amount of damage, allowing him to recover from wounds that have removed large sections of his body, basically he has a healing factor that would give Wolverine wet dreams...
While i'm not saying the penance stare wouldn't work, i can see it actually working here, i can't see it having a solid effect on Etrigan as his 'soul is clean' from innocent blood, while any minor harm would easily be nagated by his healing factor the stare would still work and be effective regardless...
Ignoring the Stare for the moment, we automatically take this into a physical conflict where Etrigan far outclasses Ghost Rider in speed, strength, fighting skill and reaction time...
Well considering how evil Etrigan is when he has free will I think GR could win with the penance stare, provided it works... If not gone gone the form of man the winner is Etrigan!
I don't think the stare is limited to only inflicting damage based on what's done to innocents. It forces them to feel all the pain they've caused regardless of the victim's innocence (going off bios). Even if it were innocents though, Etrigan has never fought good guys? He's beaten up Superman. Whether or not he was in the right, he caused damage to someone who was good, and I doubt that's the only time he's fought a good guy. And him not taking an innocent's life doesn't mean he's never caused one pain (physical or emotional). As for his healing, it doesn't sound like it would heal damage done to his soul, just his body, which both the stare and hellfire can ignore. (Ghostrider on the other hand is supposedly immune to damage that is done to souls.) So the stare should work for its full effect since Etrigan has hurt people (and their innocence doesn't look like it matters) and his healing wouldn't fix his soul. Then there's whatever egan is talking about with Etrigan being evil with free will.
I'm not really worried about the rest of it. Just wanted to discuss the effectiveness of the Penance Stare since it was stated so matter-of-fact that it wouldn't work at all and I wasn't sure I agreed with that.
Etrigan's not only fought Superman, but Batman as well, and stood toe to toe with Lobo (though calling Lobo a hero would be a stretch) and tried to force himself on Wonder Woman, the Demon is pure evil when he is acting on his own. If GR locks the stare it's over, oh wait, Etrigan likes pain, he would probably get off on knowing what his victims fealt.
Etrigan likes pain, he would probably get off on knowing what his victims fealt."
That's actually interesting. Does he like having pain inflicted directly on his soul though? And when he's not evil (not on his own) does he still like it?
Hmmmm you mean would the guilt carry to Jason? I'm guessing yes, though the Demon would probably love that.... I cant guess what an attack on Etrigan's soul would do, or if he even has a soul, demons arent exactly known to have souls after all.
"Two ways I can see it being used though. It could work over distance. (Is there proof that it won't? Has he done it over distance in the past? I'm kinda doubting your knowledge at this point.) Or he might try to hold him with chains. I don't know how tough the chains are, but they're mystical, they might be strong enough. They're also infinite in length so he can keep wrapping as much as he wants. Plus, they burn the souls like the Penance Stare so they could be weakening him too.
Is there proof that the Penance Stare could work over distance? He can try to hold him with the chains, but Etrigan is stronger than GR. The chains could be tough, but I doubt that GR could pull him close enough to use the Stare.
Buckshot said:
"I haven't said anything about that. You stated that the Penance Stare wouldn't work. I was trying to find out if that was true and you haven't convinced me.
I know. The main reason why I brought it up afterwards. Wasn't tryna convince you after you after you alraedy convinced me.
Lets boil Etrigan down shall we? A possessed man....Regardless of his speed, his strength or healing. He's just a guy who's possessed by a Demon (correct me if I'm wrong). Now, I know Static has asked me if The Penance stare can work on a Demon/Demonic being. The answer is : Yes
Here you see Ghost Rider performing an exorcism…..on a body that Mephisto possessed.
captioncaption
Sure, Etrigan is phsyically stronger than Ghost Rider, but I doubt Etrigan would be able to break his chains. ( GR's chains have ripped an airplane in half and dragged it across the runway).....Yes, Etrigan is a Lord of Hell but it's not like a Lord of Hell is something Ghost Rider has'nt dealt with already
Etrigan isn't a possessed man. He's a demon that can take the form of a man. The Penance Stare may work, but he would have to get close to use it. I still haven't seen evidence that proves GR could use it from a distance. Even with the chains being too tough to break, Etrigan is not gonna let GR pull him in like that. Also, I don't think GR's hellfire would work on Etrigan either. And, GR beating another Demon in battle is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with Etrigan.
Log in to comment