#1 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

Setting:

Rules:

  • In character unless otherwise specified
  • Win by Death, KO, BFR, or Incapacitation
  • Team Chemistry does come into play
  • No Prep unless otherwise specified
  • All DC Characters are Pre-52
  • All Marvel Characters are Current unless specified otherwise
  • Name12345 starts at the Red A, DireDrill starts at the Green B
  • Teams begin 1.5 miles apart
  • You may not enter buildings

Team Name12345:

  • Mister X (10) (Telepathy, Twin Katanas)
  • Agent X (5) (Assault Rifle, Pistol, Combat Knife)
  • X-23 (6) (Adamantium)

Add-Ons:

  • 1 - One Bladed Weapon is changed to Carbonadium. (Mister X)
  • 1 - One Gun-Wielding Character gets Explosive Rounds. (Agent X)
  • 1 - Each of your Unarmored Characters receives a Kevlar Vest.
  • 1 - Tear Gas Grenades (3) (one to each member)
  • 1 - Electroshock Grenades (3) (one to each member)
  • 2 - Your team has 45 minutes to plan / strategize and is told the names and only basic powers of who they are facing. During this time they cannot access additional information on their foes or bring additional equipment.
  • 1 - Your team is immune to pheromones, tear gas, and poison gas.
  • 1 - Thermal/X-Ray/Night Vision Goggles for each member of the team.

Team DireDrill

  • Nightcrawler (10)
  • Daredevil (7)

Add-Ons:

  • Bloodlust (3)
  • Grenade Pack (3)
  • Silent Movement (2)
  • TP (2)
  • Gas/Pheromone Immunity (1)
  • Carbonadium Blade (1) (Nightcrawler)
  • 5 Hand Ninjas (1)

#2 Posted by boschePG (2690 posts) - - Show Bio

this one is going to have some good details on battle theory. I can tell

#3 Edited by name12345 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, since my team took the 45minutes to strategize i think i should go first...

My team got basic knowledge of yours, this mean they know of NIghtcrawler's teleportation ability, and Daredevil's great agility and sensitivity(although they are not aware that he's blind),

taking account of these facts, my team's strategy would be to engage fight inside a narrow alley, throwing some tear gas and electroshock granades on the enemies as soon as the fight would start...

Immediately next, taking advantage of the confusion, they would initiate "phase 2", which consists in surrounding and eliminate Daredevil, as quickly as possible... in order to confront Nightcrawler in a 1 vs 3 fight, wich would lead to an easy victory.

This is what my team would be trying to do during this battle.

It should also be remembered, that Mister X telepathy allows him to predict his opponents moves, which should incapacitate Nightcrawler from blitzing efficiently against any member of my team, as they would be warned.

- your turn @DireDrill

#4 Posted by robertloucksjr (1836 posts) - - Show Bio

I had Agent X and X-23 as way undervalued.

#5 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

While I know the setup was not intended to give any team any strategic advantages, I must say that this environment is perfectly suited for my team.

First and foremost, Daredevil gives my team absolute awareness here. He will be able to near instantaneously discern where your team is at all times. Now your team happens to be people that Daredevil really doesn't know. Once they teleport into a position to see the enemy team, Nightcrawler should be able to ID X-23. Your team has X-23 who is will also provide your team with my general location but given that my team is incredibly mobile, she'll not be able to really use this to her advantage. Of our team, only X-23 and Kurt really know each other so your prep will give you an idea of what you are dealing with. All in all, both of our teams are relatively well matched in terms of awareness but your team does have a knowledge advantage.

In an urban environment, my team will literally be able to always stay out of sight and out of range of your entire team the entirety of the match. Your team will never touch my team unless my team so chooses. There is no defensive location that would grant you any amount of protection from my team. Since your team knows that Nightcrawler will be coming for them, they will likely have to go back to back to ensure that they can react to any teleportation that might take place. This still works to my team's advantage as they will still be weak to attacks from above them. All in all, my team will have a definite mobility advantage.

In terms of powers, your team is heavy on the healing factor which will grant them a longevity advantage but given their lower mobility they will need that. You have Mister X and since this is the telepath rather than the nervous system reader, this will cause you some problems when dealing with my team. Kurt is a native German speaker so he will think in German, Mister X does not know German so he won't understand a thing that Kurt is thinking much like when Amadeus Cho through complicated math at Mister X. The Hand Ninjas are from Japan and as such speak Japanese which will create the same problem for Mister X. Daredevil is an English speaker but he is blind so Mister X will have difficulty interpreting the sensory data. We both have super senses so neither team has an advantage there. My team has a teleporter that has no direct counter on your team. While Wolverine might be a threat to Kurt, X-23 has nowhere near the experience fighting against him that Logan does. In terms of skill, your team is arguably more skilled given that Mister X and X-23 are quite capable fighters and Agent X is an enviable marksmen. Daredevil is the only person on my team with a high amount of skill. All in all, your team has a definite skill advantage but none of your powers grant you any real advantage.

Now let's talk about team composition. Kurt and Matt are both Catholic crime fighters and have worked together before so they will have no issues working alongside one another. The Hand ninjas have wanted to work for Matt for awhile so they will also have no problem doing whatever Matt wants them to do up to and including suicide. My team is also bloodlusted, they will have no issue with playing for keeps and putting your team down. Matt has Bullseye-level accuracy and dodging so he'll be able to deal out lethal blows. Your team however, has relatively no contact with one another so they have no idea what they are capable of. Agent X is a weapon X agent, X-23 will have issues working side by side a person who wants to turn her into a weapon. Mister X is generally a loner so he'll not be that cooperative either. All in all, my team has far superior team chemistry.

Lastly we come to equipment. Your team has a good amount of explosives here but most of it is grenades which will be a liability as Daredevil can just deflect them outright. My team also has a lot of explosives since each of my 7 members has a pack of grenades. Kevlar is useless here as it won't stop blades much less a carbonadium one. Your X-ray/NV/Thermal Goggles are also likewise useless here as my team's mobility will render them pointless. We both have Carbonadium blades, but only one of our teams take more damage from carbonadium. Carbonadium temporarily disables healing factors of which your team has 2 whereas my team is devoid of healing factors, meaning your carbonadium blade is just a blade. We are both immune to pheromones/gas so both team's gas grenades are useless for anything more than disorientation. Your team also has no communication system so if they get separated they will not be able to help each other out whereas my team is constantly aware of where and what each other are doing through telepathy. No comms makes Nightcrawler even more dangerous because he can easily separate your team. My team is also silent which means that if X-23 is separated from your team, they will have no one who could sense my team coming. All in All, your team's equipment is either countered or useless here granting my team a definite advantage in equipment.

Given all of this, my team has more advantages than yours going into the battle before we even get into discussing tactics.

As for what my general strategy is, it is simple. Load up one of Hand Ninjas with a healthy amount of explosives and teleport him in the middle of your team. The impending explosion would kill Mister X outright and leave X-23 and Agent X heavily scarred and healing up. During that healing time Nightcrawler teleports in and decapitates both of them with the Carbonadium blade. Since they lack adamantium skeletons, they will easily be decapitated. After that, Nightcrawler then shoves the sword through both of their skulls keeping them permanently on ice.

I look forward to your reply but ultimately your team has no counter to this form of attack.

#6 Edited by name12345 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill said:

First and foremost, Daredevil gives my team absolute awareness here. He will be able to near instantaneously discern where your team is at all times. Now your team happens to be people that Daredevil really doesn't know.

I have to disagree on your point, if you look at the setting you'll see this is a populated city, it's not like we are the only guys around... cars, talking people, dogs, cellphones etc.

Daredevil doesn't know any of my team's members and with all the surrounding noises he won't be able to identify us so quickly... at all, considering he is blind... he has nothing to search with his supersenses.

In an urban environment, my team will literally be able to always stay out of sight and out of range of your entire team the entirety of the match. Your team will never touch my team unless my team so chooses. There is no defensive location that would grant you any amount of protection from my team. Since your team knows that Nightcrawler will be coming for them, they will likely have to go back to back to ensure that they can react to any teleportation that might take place. This still works to my team's advantage as they will still be weak to attacks from above them. All in all, my team will have a definite mobility advantage.

I think you're overestimating your team's ability, and definitely underestimating the one of mine.

1) all my team's members are perfectly comfortable in a urban environment as well, as they usually fight in one.

2) My Team doesn't need to defend from yours, as we have better fighters, i think it's the other way around...

Mister X is probably the greatest martial artist in the Marvel universe, he even kicked wolverine's ass unarmed..

His reflexes are also bullet time, if Nightcrawler would try anything stupid, he gets KOed...

infact Nightcrawler is not even near any of my team's members fighting ability...

This is Nightcrawler getting caught by blob

i mean, i'm not saying he sucks, but he doesn't stand a chance in close combat.

for example... this is Agent X, the less skilled in h2h of my team, easily beating Taskmaster

I think i've made my point.

moving on...

You have Mister X and since this is the telepath rather than the nervous system reader, this will cause you some problems when dealing with my team. Kurt is a native German speaker so he will think in German, Mister X does not know German so he won't understand a thing that Kurt is thinking much like when Amadeus Cho through complicated math at Mister X. The Hand Ninjas are from Japan and as such speak Japanese which will create the same problem for Mister X. Daredevil is an English speaker but he is blind so Mister X will have difficulty interpreting the sensory data.

Haha nope, i'm sorry but it doesn't work like that... i mean it's quite obvious that he doesn't hear the voice of their enemies.

for example, when someone is fighting he doesn't think, "now i'm gonna punch him in the face", he just do it.

Also very important, you should know that Mister X has foughted in all the world as a contender in many underground fighting tournaments, and he always won.

It doesn't matter what is the language, he just predict what are you gonna do, your intentions.

Now let's talk about team composition. Kurt and Matt are both Catholic crime fighters and have worked together before so they will have no issues working alongside one another. The Hand ninjas have wanted to work for Matt for awhile so they will also have no problem doing whatever Matt wants them to do up to and including suicide. My team is also bloodlusted, they will have no issue with playing for keeps and putting your team down. Matt has Bullseye-level accuracy and dodging so he'll be able to deal out lethal blows. Your team however, has relatively no contact with one another so they have no idea what they are capable of. Agent X is a weapon X agent, X-23 will have issues working side by side a person who wants to turn her into a weapon. Mister X is generally a loner so he'll not be that cooperative either. All in all, my team has far superior team chemistry.

About team chemestry, yes you have more.. however, (and no one on my team want to turn x-23 into a weapon) my team is formed by x-23, a well trained human weapon. Agen X, the perfect mercenary and soldier. Mister X, a man who mastered every existing martial art.

I think they can follow a simple strategy, that's the reason why they have 45min prep!! plus they can always speak to communicate, and each one of them is more than capable of improvisation if something goes wrong. They are all familiar with military tactics, they made a plain, and they are gonna follow it. they don't need chemestry.

Lastly we come to equipment. Your team has a good amount of explosives here but most of it is grenades which will be a liability as Daredevil can just deflect them outright. My team also has a lot of explosives since each of my 7 members has a pack of grenades. Kevlar is useless here as it won't stop blades much less a carbonadium one. Your X-ray/NV/Thermal Goggles are also likewise useless here as my team's mobility will render them pointless. We both have Carbonadium blades, but only one of our teams take more damage from carbonadium. Carbonadium temporarily disables healing factors of which your team has 2 whereas my team is devoid of healing factors, meaning your carbonadium blade is just a blade. We are both immune to pheromones/gas so both team's gas grenades are useless for anything more than disorientation. Your team also has no communication system so if they get separated they will not be able to help each other out whereas my team is constantly aware of where and what each other are doing through telepathy. No comms makes Nightcrawler even more dangerous because he can easily separate your team. My team is also silent which means that if X-23 is separated from your team, they will have no one who could sense my team coming. All in All, your team's equipment is either countered or useless here granting my team a definite advantage in equipment.

As you can see my team is well prepared for every situation, having x-ray visors and carbonadium blade maybe won't help in this fight, but could help in another battle.

Now, about daredevil "deflecting grenades", I don't think you realize something...

1) You can't touch grenades if they have been activated, or the will explode.

2) Agent-X is an absolute expert in military weapons, and i bet X-23 and Mister X are not ordinary either. They would throw some accurate shots.

If you consider they have a pretty large aoe, i don't think DD can avoid multiple shots all at once...

3) My team would be throwing grenades to ALL your team as soon as they see them, not only DD.

And like i told you before, my team is aware of Nightcrawler's ability... if he would try to get close to ANY member of my team, he would most likely get KOed or injured pretty hard, you also forgot that Mister X can predict his movements... then it would be a 3 vs 1 against DD... (assuming your ninjas would get incapacitated by tear gas and electroshock grenades)

As for what my general strategy is, it is simple. Load up one of Hand Ninjas with a healthy amount of explosives and teleport him in the middle of your team. The impending explosion would kill Mister X outright and leave X-23 and Agent X heavily scarred and healing up. During that healing time Nightcrawler teleports in and decapitates both of them with the Carbonadium blade. Since they lack adamantium skeletons, they will easily be decapitated. After that, Nightcrawler then shoves the sword through both of their skulls keeping them permanently on ice.

That is impossible!! you have to take into account characters moral, helpers as well, why would a ninja choose to die like a kamikaze??? That would just lead to an insubordination!!

The way i see it, you have no way of winning this battle(especially because of your strategy), if DD gets close he get focused by all my team and die, if NC gets close he get KOed by any member of my team, if they decide to keep distant they would deal with Agent X's assault rifle and exploding bullets, and he is an exelent marksman, probably even better than deadpool, as you can see in this scan

so they won't last long... as they don't posses an healing factor, moreover your team has no way to harm mine from distance, they certanly never used granades, including ninjas so they would be easy to dodge... maybe if you had another member it would be more even...

- your turn

#7 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Nowhere in the OP does it say that the city is populated. All battles assume no bystanders to prevent hostage taking but if you want can decide whether or not this is true.

Your team doesn't get to choose when or where they attack my team because my team can see your team coming and can teleport away. My team will never be defending, they will always be the one attacking as your team has no choice in the matter. Nightcrawler can teleport 2 miles in less than a second, can your team even come close? Nope, they will need at least 10 minutes to catch up. You can't be the attacker if you are constantly playing catch up. Also, keep in mind that while Agent X and X-23 have superhuman endurance, Mister X does not. Do you think that chasing after my team is really the best course of action? Nightcrawler made it 800 miles in less than a minute, which means he made at least 400 jumps (Max range is 2 miles) working out to 6-7 jumps a second. He will have no issue moving my entire team once every 10 minutes while Mister X hoofs it with that Kevlar armor on. He is going to get tired and tired people generally don't fight too well. You attempting to attack my team only hurts your team so you will be on the defense waiting for my ambush. The best fighters in the world are useless when you can't get into range much less choose where a fight takes place.

By the way, that was AoA Nightcrawler in that scan, you can tell by the red over his eye. AoA Nightcrawler =/= 616 Nightcrawler.

Again, this is Telepath Mr. X not Nervous System Reading Mr. X. Telepath Mr. X is vulnerable to this form of defense. When he fought Amadeus Cho, Amadeus simply started thinking about complicated math that Mr. X does not understand. Math is a language like any other and if Amadeus can take him down with complicated math, the Japanese and German should cause some issues. Youo forget that Mr. X is one of the world's best martial artist on top of his telepathy, he could have won those tourney's without the use of his ability.

Team Chemistry is always important, it even says so in the OP. There is a reason why that was something you could buy. Your team will not be cohesive, they will not fight as one, they will not look out for one another. My team however, will have next to no problem working with one another.

Grenades do not explode if you touch them, they explode when the timer runs out and there is nothing stopping Daredevil from throwing something to deflect it in mid air. He has Bullseye level accuracy, doing this should be no issue. Your team also doesn't get to choose which of my team member they come across, I have complete control over when and where we do battle and under what circumstances as my mobility and detection grant me this. Your prep is pretty much meaningless here. My team is immune to Tear Gas, just like your team so those are useless to you. Grenades are the simplest weapons in existence, why do you think Molotov Cocktails are so popular among unskilled civilians, they are easy to make and easy to use just like Grenades. Agent X's marksmanship is useless here as the urban environment limits the range of vision and range of shot.

You just asked why a Hand Ninja would choose to die in a Kamikaze? Seriously? Hand Ninjas live to die. Kamikaze is pretty much their middle name. During Enemy of the State, the Hand sacrificed at least 6 Ninja for every person that they raised from the dead. Hand Ninjas don't ever expect to come out of battle alive. Daredevil is the person that the Hand most wants to lead them, so they will do as he asks with no hesitation.

The way I see it, your team has no chance here. They have no control over the battlefield, they have no team cohesion, and they are ill equipped to deal with a threat like teleportation. This battle will not be a straight up 1v1, it will be an ambush, it will be a massacre. Fighting ability is completely useless if you never get a chance to use it.

#8 Posted by name12345 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill said:

Nowhere in the OP does it say that the city is populated. All battles assume no bystanders to prevent hostage taking but if you want can decide whether or not this is true.

yeah let's wait for his response

Your team doesn't get to choose when or where they attack my team because my team can see your team coming and can teleport away. My team will never be defending, they will always be the one attacking as your team has no choice in the matter. Nightcrawler can teleport 2 miles in less than a second, can your team even come close? Nope, they will need at least 10 minutes to catch up. You can't be the attacker if you are constantly playing catch up. Also, keep in mind that while Agent X and X-23 have superhuman endurance, Mister X does not. Do you think that chasing after my team is really the best course of action? Nightcrawler made it 800 miles in less than a minute, which means he made at least 400 jumps (Max range is 2 miles) working out to 6-7 jumps a second. He will have no issue moving my entire team once every 10 minutes while Mister X hoofs it with that Kevlar armor on. He is going to get tired and tired people generally don't fight too well. You attempting to attack my team only hurts your team so you will be on the defense waiting for my ambush. The best fighters in the world are useless when you can't get into range much less choose where a fight takes place.

First of all, your team want to kill mine, they won't be running away like cowards, that would be out of character.

Second, Nightcrawler can't use his power too much or he'll get exhausted, and how is he going to teleport DD and other 5 ninjas away without getting tired immediatly??

Every "passenger" of Nightcrawler can't be teleported consecutively more than like 3 or 4 of times or they will get sick, they might even pass out from the strain, so..

Mister X is not stupid!! he would never get tired in a fight, and they would be following the plan, which consist in searching for your team, staying near narrow alleys and engage fight in tight places.

And yes Agent X can also place a bullet in your head from a long distance so.. we have range, unlike your team. But like i said, if your team get close, they lose...

Again, this is Telepath Mr. X not Nervous System Reading Mr. X. Telepath Mr. X is vulnerable to this form of defense. When he fought Amadeus Cho, Amadeus simply started thinking about complicated math that Mr. X does not understand. Math is a language like any other and if Amadeus can take him down with complicated math, the Japanese and German should cause some issues. Youo forget that Mr. X is one of the world's best martial artist on top of his telepathy, he could have won those tourney's without the use of his ability.

It's just a shame that none of your team's members is aware of Mister X's ability... and even if they knew, i seriously doubt they could think of math while fighting Mister X, but they have just no idea...

And you are wrong anyway about your theory of foreign lenguages...

Team Chemistry is always important, it even says so in the OP. There is a reason why that was something you could buy. Your team will not be cohesive, they will not fight as one, they will not look out for one another. My team however, will have next to no problem working with one another.

Like i said, my team has a plan, they are all expert in military tactics, and they need just that! Plus non of my team's members hate each others so they don't have any chemestry problem at all. They are just different people who don't know each other.

Grenades do not explode if you touch them, they explode when the timer runs out and there is nothing stopping Daredevil from throwing something to deflect it in mid air. He has Bullseye level accuracy, doing this should be no issue. Your team also doesn't get to choose which of my team member they come across, I have complete control over when and where we do battle and under what circumstances as my mobility and detection grant me this. Your prep is pretty much meaningless here. My team is immune to Tear Gas, just like your team so those are useless to you. Grenades are the simplest weapons in existence, why do you think Molotov Cocktails are so popular among unskilled civilians, they are easy to make and easy to use just like Grenades. Agent X's marksmanship is useless here as the urban environment limits the range of vision and range of shot.

And this is the difference between an expert and a noob.

An expert actually know how to throw a grenade most efficiently, to make sure that as soon as the grenade would come near the target, it would explode...

YOU have no control at all, infact the only thing your team will do, is running away... my team could do the same thing, teleportation is not an unlimited resource, if you want to use it for running away, for me it's fine, considering that DD will get sick after the firsts times and NC would just get exhausted

Agent X fires with guns in urban evironments all the time, what are you saying?? there's no range limit, as soon as he find your team he shoots them!!

You just asked why a Hand Ninja would choose to die in a Kamikaze? Seriously? Hand Ninjas live to die. Kamikaze is pretty much their middle name. During Enemy of the State, the Hand sacrificed at least 6 Ninja for every person that they raised from the dead. Hand Ninjas don't ever expect to come out of battle alive. Daredevil is the person that the Hand most wants to lead them, so they will do as he asks with no hesitation.

I think you've mistaken Samurai with Ninjas, a ninja is a Spy and an Assassin, there's no point in being stealthy if you are a kamikaze...

DD is not even their master, i'm gonna need some proof to belive that they would sacrifice themselves for him...

#9 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

My team does want to kill yours but they are going to choose the most optimum time to do so. They get to choose when to attack, your team does not. Because of this my team is the attacker and yours is the defender. Defenders only have an advantage if they have a fortification to take refuge. You don't have that here. Have you seen Sin City? Now tell me again why tight alleyways is a good idea given my team's mobility. Guns are useless here because my team will either be in your face or out of range. Also, Agent X won't put a bullet in any of my team members. Daredevil dodges Bullseye who is far superior marksman and Nightcrawler can out teleport a bullet with ease even after it has been fired at point blank range.

Nightcrawler's teleportation hasn't exhausted him in years, he teleported Rogue 800 miles in 1 minute. like I said. That is 400 jumps minimum that he made in 1 minute and he still was okay to make more. I'll see if I can find the scan but Nightcrawler can teleport my entire team easily without issue. Rogue survived 400 jumps without any issues so I see no reason why my team would suffer any of the effects. Classic Nightcrawler may have needed some rest but Current Nightcrawler had no real limitations on the number of teleports he could make. Since it will take your team an average of 10 minutes to catch up him he'll be able to easily keep up. If he teleports to the top of that big black building in the middle they could stay there all day because you can't go inside and go up the elevator, you'll have to climb the exterior which will take an exorbitant amount of time without webshooters. X-23 might have an easier time but her other teammate will have to free climb it. It looks to have a class exterior, so good luck. Also, Daredevil will detect this and he'll know where you are. Do you think any of your dodging skills or speed mean anything when you are clinging to the exterior of a building? Do you finally see why your team are the defenders and my team are the attackers in this situation? My mobility and detection make my team untouchable unless they want to be touched. Your team can't say the same. I never said that Mr. X was stupid, I said that having to run miles to catch up to my team will tire him out and doing so is stupid on your part. Trying to catch my team is like trying to move water with your hands, you can do it it just takes a long time and is really stupid.

Your team don't know each other. Mr. X didn't like the Thunderbolts until he had worked with for awhile. How do you think he'll be working with two unknowns especially since one is essentially Girlverine. Agent X is a merc but he works for Weapon X, a program that X-23 has issues with since they sort of want to use people like her as weapons. If you think your team will work as smoothly as you think then you have not clearly read the rules here.

Math is a language like any other. It has its syntax, grammar, terms, and characters, there is virtually no difference between math and any other language. If Mr. X can get confused by math how do you think German and Japanese will hit him? Also, they don't need to know about his abilities because they do this by default. I have shown that he has a weakness to other languages, it is on you to provide proof to the contrary.

Have you read anything with the Hand in it? They are a group of undead occult people. Hand Ninjas are literally zombie ninjas who live to die because they know that they will just get raised from the dead to do it all over again. Maybe you never read Shadowland but in that story Daredevil, after being harassed by the Hand for years to lead them, gives in and decides to LEAD THE HAND. As in, he was in charge. They want Daredevil to lead them, they will literally JUMP at the chance to blow themselves up for Daredevil.

Your team is singularly devoted to combat, my team won't allow them to do that. This battle is like a Tank versus an Apache, Apache is too fast and maneuverable for the considerable damage that the Tank can dish out. You are the Tank, I am the Apache. I win every time.

Maybe you should take a read of Comicvine's Wiki, Wikipedia, or really any wiki on the subject because you obviously know very little about the Hand, Daredevil, or Nightcrawler. Before you post again, I need you to go read them, because I do not want to keep explaining my points to you over and over like I have done.

#10 Posted by name12345 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill said:

My team does want to kill yours but they are going to choose the most optimum time to do so. They get to choose when to attack, your team does not. Because of this my team is the attacker and yours is the defender. Defenders only have an advantage if they have a fortification to take refuge. You don't have that here. Have you seen Sin City? Now tell me again why tight alleyways is a good idea given my team's mobility. Guns are useless here because my team will either be in your face or out of range. Also, Agent X won't put a bullet in any of my team members. Daredevil dodges Bullseye who is far superior marksman and Nightcrawler can out teleport a bullet with ease even after it has been fired at point blank range.

Nightcrawler's teleportation hasn't exhausted him in years, he teleported Rogue 800 miles in 1 minute. like I said. That is 400 jumps minimum that he made in 1 minute and he still was okay to make more. I'll see if I can find the scan but Nightcrawler can teleport my entire team easily without issue. Rogue survived 400 jumps without any issues so I see no reason why my team would suffer any of the effects. Classic Nightcrawler may have needed some rest but Current Nightcrawler had no real limitations on the number of teleports he could make. Since it will take your team an average of 10 minutes to catch up him he'll be able to easily keep up. If he teleports to the top of that big black building in the middle they could stay there all day because you can't go inside and go up the elevator, you'll have to climb the exterior which will take an exorbitant amount of time without webshooters. X-23 might have an easier time but her other teammate will have to free climb it. It looks to have a class exterior, so good luck. Also, Daredevil will detect this and he'll know where you are. Do you think any of your dodging skills or speed mean anything when you are clinging to the exterior of a building? Do you finally see why your team are the defenders and my team are the attackers in this situation? My mobility and detection make my team untouchable unless they want to be touched. Your team can't say the same. I never said that Mr. X was stupid, I said that having to run miles to catch up to my team will tire him out and doing so is stupid on your part. Trying to catch my team is like trying to move water with your hands, you can do it it just takes a long time and is really stupid.

Your team don't know each other. Mr. X didn't like the Thunderbolts until he had worked with for awhile. How do you think he'll be working with two unknowns especially since one is essentially Girlverine. Agent X is a merc but he works for Weapon X, a program that X-23 has issues with since they sort of want to use people like her as weapons. If you think your team will work as smoothly as you think then you have not clearly read the rules here.

Math is a language like any other. It has its syntax, grammar, terms, and characters, there is virtually no difference between math and any other language. If Mr. X can get confused by math how do you think German and Japanese will hit him? Also, they don't need to know about his abilities because they do this by default. I have shown that he has a weakness to other languages, it is on you to provide proof to the contrary.

Have you read anything with the Hand in it? They are a group of undead occult people. Hand Ninjas are literally zombie ninjas who live to die because they know that they will just get raised from the dead to do it all over again. Maybe you never read Shadowland but in that story Daredevil, after being harassed by the Hand for years to lead them, gives in and decides to LEAD THE HAND. As in, he was in charge. They want Daredevil to lead them, they will literally JUMP at the chance to blow themselves up for Daredevil.

Your team is singularly devoted to combat, my team won't allow them to do that. This battle is like a Tank versus an Apache, Apache is too fast and maneuverable for the considerable damage that the Tank can dish out. You are the Tank, I am the Apache. I win every time.

Maybe you should take a read of Comicvine's Wiki, Wikipedia, or really any wiki on the subject because you obviously know very little about the Hand, Daredevil, or Nightcrawler. Before you post again, I need you to go read them, because I do not want to keep explaining my points to you over and over like I have done.

It looks like i have to prove you wrong in every single statement here, don't worry i'll do it.

But first i would like @Esquire: to clarify if this city is polulated or not.

(btw in the picture you can cleary see people and cars, if he's not going to respond soon, we will assume it's populated.)

#11 Posted by Dextersinister (6500 posts) - - Show Bio

@name12345: He mentioned that it was unpopulated in another thread when someone tried to sacrifice bystander's for a ritual.

#12 Posted by boschePG (2690 posts) - - Show Bio

I will confirm that it is not populated. He stated that in the Fetts fight thread

#13 Posted by name12345 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dextersinister: @boschePG:

seriously?? but maybe it was just for them, i can't do any ritual, so...

i'll wait for his response, just in case.

Meanwhile i will prepare to finish @DireDrill: with some uncontestable arguments. ;)

#14 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Your team may be unable to perform any rituals but my team can. I could easily kill and raise multiple people from the dead and form an army over time. But as I said before, unless specified we assume no bystanders to prevent bad guys from using them against good guys.

#15 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@name12345: @DireDrill: The city is unpopulated. Should have specified in the OP, sorry.

#16 Edited by name12345 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

@name12345: @DireDrill: The city is unpopulated. Should have specified in the OP, sorry.

no prob!

@DireDrill said:

My team does want to kill yours but they are going to choose the most optimum time to do so. They get to choose when to attack, your team does not. Because of this my team is the attacker and yours is the defender. Defenders only have an advantage if they have a fortification to take refuge. You don't have that here. Have you seen Sin City? Now tell me again why tight alleyways is a good idea given my team's mobility. Guns are useless here because my team will either be in your face or out of range. Also, Agent X won't put a bullet in any of my team members. Daredevil dodges Bullseye who is far superior marksman and Nightcrawler can out teleport a bullet with ease even after it has been fired at point blank range.

Ok, there's a problem with your strategy... your team can only fight in close combat(unlike mine)... staying out of sight will be just usless for your team, because you don't have a healing factor(but i do have an HF!!), and you're not going to win by running away like a chicken!!!

This would only contribute to make your team more afraid of mine, which would not help at all.

Maybe Daredevil and Nightcrawler can avoid bullets for some time, but they don't have unlimited stamina, dodging a bullet is much more difficult than firing one... and i have explosive rounds as well, DD would certainly be affected by a loud explosion noise!!

Like i already stated, if your team would be fool enough to approach mine, it would only be at my advantage... there's a huge difference between our team's fighting ability.

For example, look at Nightcrawler, he is a good fighter, but he's not untouchble...

This is a fight with some soldier, NC wins obviously, but he get grabbed quite easily during the fight.

Now... with these guys, this is something he can get away with, but what if it happens with Mister X?

That would be a fatal mistake, he would quickly get mutilated by his katana... in the next scan you can see what happened to deadpool, who is clearly a better fighter!!

(sorry, i made a mistake... but instead of the axe it could've been X-23 or Agent X, i will keep this scan because it proves that Mr X has superior reaction time than deadpool, and he would easily hit NC)

And that was not the only scan i have to prove that Nightcrawler get hitted by character much less skilled than my team's members... I can post more if you want, even Sebastian Shaw punched him!!

In Fighting Ability NC is no match for my team, he can't even use his surprise effect teleporting himself near, because a) all my team is aware of his power b) Mister X can predic his opponents moves

Nightcrawler's teleportation hasn't exhausted him in years, he teleported Rogue 800 miles in 1 minute. like I said. That is 400 jumps minimum that he made in 1 minute and he still was okay to make more. I'll see if I can find the scan but Nightcrawler can teleport my entire team easily without issue. Rogue survived 400 jumps without any issues so I see no reason why my team would suffer any of the effects. Classic Nightcrawler may have needed some rest but Current Nightcrawler had no real limitations on the number of teleports he could make. Since it will take your team an average of 10 minutes to catch up him he'll be able to easily keep up. If he teleports to the top of that big black building in the middle they could stay there all day because you can't go inside and go up the elevator, you'll have to climb the exterior which will take an exorbitant amount of time without webshooters. X-23 might have an easier time but her other teammate will have to free climb it. It looks to have a class exterior, so good luck. Also, Daredevil will detect this and he'll know where you are. Do you think any of your dodging skills or speed mean anything when you are clinging to the exterior of a building? Do you finally see why your team are the defenders and my team are the attackers in this situation? My mobility and detection make my team untouchable unless they want to be touched. Your team can't say the same. I never said that Mr. X was stupid, I said that having to run miles to catch up to my team will tire him out and doing so is stupid on your part. Trying to catch my team is like trying to move water with your hands, you can do it it just takes a long time and is really stupid.

Hahaha you know my team has a plan, right? no one has ever talked about free climbing...

Anyway, Rogue surviving 400 jumps??? Prove it! i don't believe you, mainly because it's stated in almost every description of NC's powers, that a normal person can't tolerate the strain of being teleported... if they are not used to it, there's no way they can jump many times without feeling sick, some may even pass out.

Read what he says in this scan:

Now this is probably a bit old, and current NC would't have much problem in doing it, but what about a normal person?

My point is that, you are talking about teleporting five people near my team, from out of their sight, everytime you want to attack, and then to teleport again all your team out of shooting range...

and i say it's clearly too impossible!! considering that NC himself would get tired after firsts 2 attacks, even if it was possible doing so a lot of times, all your team would get sick!! especially Daredevil IMO, because he is much more sensible.

Your team don't know each other. Mr. X didn't like the Thunderbolts until he had worked with for awhile. How do you think he'll be working with two unknowns especially since one is essentially Girlverine. Agent X is a merc but he works for Weapon X, a program that X-23 has issues with since they sort of want to use people like her as weapons. If you think your team will work as smoothly as you think then you have not clearly read the rules here.

Math is a language like any other. It has its syntax, grammar, terms, and characters, there is virtually no difference between math and any other language. If Mr. X can get confused by math how do you think German and Japanese will hit him? Also, they don't need to know about his abilities because they do this by default. I have shown that he has a weakness to other languages, it is on you to provide proof to the contrary.

1) Agent X is a merc, he works for everybody!! Infact they don't have to like each other, or talk about their past lives in order to work together(infact why would they?), as long as they don't hate each other, and they don't, there is no problem.

2) First of all !! Amadeus Cho is a genius, on of the smartest people on the planet, he has a hypermind wich allows him to run a virtually limitless amount of calculations in his head.

I understand that he might be incomprehensible to Mister X, but i don't see any hyperminded genius in your team!! I already told you that Mister X has foughted in all the world, against foreign opponents, (including Blackwidow who is russian!) but you are forgetting something...

Amadeus Cho is Korean!! why would he think of math, if his korean would be enough??

Your theory is just wrong... i mean do you srsly think that during a fight people think in words?? please stop pushing your theory... everything is proving you wrong!!!

Moving on...

Have you read anything with the Hand in it? They are a group of undead occult people. Hand Ninjas are literally zombie ninjas who live to die because they know that they will just get raised from the dead to do it all over again. Maybe you never read Shadowland but in that story Daredevil, after being harassed by the Hand for years to lead them, gives in and decides to LEAD THE HAND. As in, he was in charge. They want Daredevil to lead them, they will literally JUMP at the chance to blow themselves up for Daredevil.

Your team is singularly devoted to combat, my team won't allow them to do that. This battle is like a Tank versus an Apache, Apache is too fast and maneuverable for the considerable damage that the Tank can dish out. You are the Tank, I am the Apache. I win every time.

Maybe you should take a read of Comicvine's Wiki, Wikipedia, or really any wiki on the subject because you obviously know very little about the Hand, Daredevil, or Nightcrawler. Before you post again, I need you to go read them, because I do not want to keep explaining my points to you over and over like I have done.

Calm down here, i just asked you to prove it because i was unaware of it! (and you still didn't prove it)

But i'm going to believe you anyway, because this doesn't represent any problem for my team...

You see 2/3 of my team have an HF, and the only one who doesn't, Mister X, posses a bullet time reaction, which would allows him to jump out of range faster than the others.

They are all very agile(especially X-23), and they would have no problem with you, busting up all your supports, just hoping to inflict us some minor damage...

Also, my team is not a tank, juggernaut is a tank...

You should know that X-23 is really agile, probaly on DD's level, but far more lethal...

I don't know how many times i need to repeat this... your team cannot get near without risking to be killed !!

You can't attack(get near), you can't defend(lower ability), the only thing you can do is escape, but you can't escape for ever(strain from teleportation)

In conclusion, you can't win...

My team is better in too many things...

Better from distance, better in close combat, better with gadgets, better protection(kevlar vests), etc.

And this without taking into consideration all the things you don't even have! like: knowledge on opponents, 45 min prep, ability to predict opponents moves, low-level psionic powers(Agent X), healing factor, a decent strategy... etc.

My team woud certainly win! This is probably my conclusion, it depends on what you'll say on your next reply, but i'm pretty confident that you won't be able to ignore all these facts, especially since you have nothing but words and theory to support all your arguments... However it was fun debating with you, this was my first time debating.

- Your turn

#17 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

This scan shows exactly what I have stated at least 3 times now. Given that Nightcrawler's max east-west teleport range is 2 miles, that works out to a minimum of 400 jumps but given that the jumps in the picture seem to be much closer together than 2 miles we can assume that this number was likely 2-4 times as many jumps but we will low ball and go with the minimum of 400 jumps which means he was teleporting a minimum of 6 times every second on the way there. You see how he jokes about it and says he is fine? He then proceeded to teleport Rogue and himself about another 400 miles. Rogue wasn't even in anyway distressed here. Classic Nightcrawler and current Nightcrawler are two incredibly different characters and as such, if your scan comes before Secret Invasion, then it is likely invalid. If you came into this battle thinking you were facing Classic Nightcrawler then I feel bad for you son, he's got 400+ jumps in him and he ain't even done. Current Nightcrawler has none of the limitations that classic Nightcrawler does. Every wiki that I have found has this feat listed so I am wondering where you get off saying that every source says something to the contrary. In fact, I would love for you to find me a source that contradicts my scan. This is either ignorance or a blatant attempt at misinformation.

Your team can never hope to keep up with how fast my team can move. They can be anywhere in the city in a sixth of second. This means your team will have locate them and then chase after us slowly tiring Mr. X while my team sits pretty till you close to within range then they teleport out again causing you to have to do it all over again. I have shown that Nightcrawler can keep this up for as long as need be. Can Mr. X say the same? If not, you'll have to leave him behind or he'll be less than useless in a fight. After you stupidly exhausted your team member, this becomes a 7v2. So by all means, chase after us, that just means your team loses all the easier.

You don't understand analogies too well do you? Your team is the tank because they deal high damage but have low mobility.

If you decide to defend yourselves, which is the ONLY REASONABLE OPTION for your team given my teams mobility, you get to experience an exploding ninja KO your team.

This is Daredevil leading a horde of Hand Ninjas into automatic gunfire. He told them to jump into the gunfire, knowing that some would be taken down, because he has no issues with undead ninjas being shot. All of the Hand Ninjas agree to do this, knowing that some of them would be taken down. This is why my tea's chemistry is so much better than yours. They have a long experience with one another and will not hesitate to do what needs to be done. Your team does not have this, they know very little of one another and may not decide to fight as a cohesive unit. If you take a bunch of random soldiers who have never met and pit them against a group of soldiers who have years of experience with one another, the group with experience wins every time. In 300, the Spartans have spent years training and fighting together and they are able to repel incredible amounts of random soldiers from disparate kingdoms. You are discounting team chemistry way too much which is frankly against the rules.

I don't think that you are getting it, Amadeus didn't hit him with a bunch of math, he hit him with only math. Mr. X can't do math so he couldn't understand what Amadeus Cho was going to do. Mr. X doesn't know German so he won't understand what Kurt is thinking nor will he understand what the Hand is thinking. Show me Mr. X taking on someone who doesn't speak English and clearly using his Telepathy against them. I have shown that foreign languages confuse him, you have yet to prove anything to the contrary.

Your arrogance is ridiculous given your general lack of knowledge about your own team, my team, and the scenario. As for all of your scans, they are all USELESS as my team will never get close enough for them to be of any value. This is Tank versus Apache, you lose.

As you refuse to do any research into the matter, I am going to propose that we go to voting.

#18 Posted by name12345 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill: Oh... now you are the one who's asking for proofs... i see, since you asked... From http://www.comicvine.com/nightcrawler/29-1461/

"This style of teleportation is physically demanding not only for Kurt, but particularly for others he brings along with him who are not used to it. When used offensively, the stress of rapid succession of teleports can incapacitate a normal person or cause nausea. It has been hinted that his physiology may make travel less physically stressful." ( IMO Rogue must have absorbed someone's ability )

also, about your theory on Mr X... you clearly ignored the fact that Amadeus Cho is korean... hahaha like if anyone is gonna think "now i will kick you" during a fight, you are the one who has to demonstrate your theory, i already proved that he fought against foreign opponents, i'll leave you with a better description of his power: "His nervous sistem maps automatically on to neural motor-function precursors..."

I have the scan if you like, but i don't think it's fair to humiliate you in the last post before voting...

However if you'll instist in your silly theory, i won't hesitate to post it.

Good luck!

Ladies and Gentlemen, cast your votes!

#19 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

The Vine's Article then completely contradicts that very notion not 2 paragraphs down. It describes the scan I posted (Though it incorrectly lists 300 as opposed to the 800 as stated in the scan) and the one where he teleports Hope over 400 miles in one jump and she is no worse for the wear. Nightcrawler has gotten control of his powers ever since he expressed displeasure at not being the only teleporter on the team.

There are essentially 2 different Mr. Xs, one who can read your Nervous System and one who is a Telepath. You have the Telepath, meaning no NERVOUS SYSTEM READING. Amadeus Cho is a Korean born in America, his first language is English so thus he thinks in English. Kurt is a German born immigrant who still uses German words in common conversation, all of his thoughts would be in German. I asked for a scan, so show me the scan and if it includes the phrase Nervous System then you simply cannot use that scan. I explained everything I just said in my first post and you ignored it all completely.

#20 Edited by name12345 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill said:

The Vine's Article then completely contradicts that very notion not 2 paragraphs down. It describes the scan I posted (Though it incorrectly lists 300 as opposed to the 800 as stated in the scan) and the one where he teleports Hope over 400 miles in one jump and she is no worse for the wear. Nightcrawler has gotten control of his powers ever since he expressed displeasure at not being the only teleporter on the team.

There are essentially 2 different Mr. Xs, one who can read your Nervous System and one who is a Telepath. You have the Telepath, meaning no NERVOUS SYSTEM READING. Amadeus Cho is a Korean born in America, his first language is English so thus he thinks in English. Kurt is a German born immigrant who still uses German words in common conversation, all of his thoughts would be in German. I asked for a scan, so show me the scan and if it includes the phrase Nervous System then you simply cannot use that scan. I explained everything I just said in my first post and you ignored it all completely.

no i'm sorry, the debate is over.

There is only one Mister X, stop lying, stop asking things, and let people vote.

(and you forgot about blackwidow.)

You can vote people!

#21 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

You don't get to decide when voting is open as that falls to Esquire and Esquire alone.

Show me the scan, was he using Nervous System Reading or Telepathy? Why do you think TP was listed in the tourney signup? It is because only feats given to the TP using Mr. X count. Why would it be there when no one else's powers were listed? Can you explain that? Nope, you have no explanation because you have not done your homework.

We need a bit of a ruling here before voting can commence. Can his Mister X use Nervous System reading or is he restricted to Telepathy as suggested in the OP?

#22 Posted by boschePG (2690 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill: is this open for voting too, diredrill? I know both parties have to be in accord to vote

#23 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

He posted a final attack and then decided that voting was open without me being able to respond. I would prefer to hold all votes until Esquire can properly review the information and open it himself.

#24 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill:

As far as voting, I'm fine with letting it open once you've both said all you have to say.

@DireDrill said:

We need a bit of a ruling here before voting can commence. Can his Mister X use Nervous System reading or is he restricted to Telepathy as suggested in the OP?

Bleh. The thing about distinguishing between the two powers is that it's not really clearly defined as two powers. Some writers have said he locks on to neural impulses, others have shown it to be actual telepathic mindreading. There was no retcon or character event to give him one power as opposed to the other, it seems to be writer's inconsistency. Although I see why DireDrill is making his argument based on what was in the sign-up thread, my intention was simply to clarify that Mister X had access to his powers, since other tournaments often limit him to merely skill. He has few enough feats as it is, so I did intend for all of them to be valid.

#25 Edited by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Regardless of that outcome, he won't get to use his telepathy or nervous system reading since he'll be exploded by a falling Ninja Bomb. It is sad that he was unaware of the powers of his own characters though.

I suppose that voting can commence should Name12345 choose to continue.

#26 Posted by boschePG (2690 posts) - - Show Bio

my vote goes to name12345. I thought both you guys made decent attack arguments. The thing is, I thought name12345 debunked the whole Nightcrawler thinking German as an attack. I thought it was pushing it when Diredrill compared Cho's mental understanding of math to NCs german language. Who is to say that Mister X doesnt know German. If diredrill would have posted a scan of it stating Mister X has problem with symtecs of other languages then I thought it would have helped him with my vote. Usually as an assassin, they know other languages anyways, IMO. The kamikaze idea was good, but then he has two people with healing factors that he is fighting. Diredrill had a good attack scenario, I just thought he focused too much on his plan and didnt do contingencies if it didnt work. I dont know how much my vote goes cuz in their fight bracket

vote goes to name12345

final answer

#27 Edited by name12345 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill said:

He posted a final attack and then decided that voting was open without me being able to respond. I would prefer to hold all votes until Esquire can properly review the information and open it himself.

What?? He already agreed to open the vote...

@DireDrill said:

Your arrogance is ridiculous given your general lack of knowledge about your own team, my team, and the scenario. As for all of your scans, they are all USELESS as my team will never get close enough for them to be of any value. This is Tank versus Apache, you lose.

As you refuse to do any research into the matter, I am going to propose that we go to voting.

@boschePG: @Esquire:

And in my next post, i said this...

@name12345 said:

Good luck!

Ladies and Gentlemen, cast your votes!

( About Mr X, don't you think he can read Nervous Sistems through telepathy? Howelse can he do that without touching anyone? )

#28 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Proposing and Agreement are two different things. I proposed that me and my wife get Pizza last week but she did not agree so it didn't happen.

(Telepathy and Nervous Systems are two different things. A telepath uses Mind to Mind communication. Nervous System Reading requires some form of Electro-Chemical Senses. It is 2 different ballparks. You are lucky that Mr. X has so few feats.)

#29 Edited by name12345 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill said:

Proposing and Agreement are two different things. I proposed that me and my wife get Pizza last week but she did not agree so it didn't happen.

(Telepathy and Nervous Systems are two different things. A telepath uses Mind to Mind communication. Nervous System Reading requires some form of Electro-Chemical Senses. It is 2 different ballparks. You are lucky that Mr. X has so few feats.)

No... if you propose that you and your wife should get a pizza, and she agreed, you are going to get a pizza!!!

it's not like:

you: "hey, you want to get a pizza?"

wife: "yeah, sure"

you "i don't!!!"

hahahahahahaha!!!!

Anyway, i've had enough of your speculations... we know that Mr X has foughted in all the world, against blackwidow too for example, your theory is just pure speculation.

#30 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

I still never agreed, proposal =/= agreement.

That battle you speak of with Black Widow was an instance of Nervous System Reading not telepathy. I actually have that trade paperback and he clearly is unable to read people's minds which is the hallmark of Telepathy-based Mr. X. In that battle he also fights with Songbird in a 1v2 situation, he has stated himself that his powers only really work 1v1. That scan is relatively invalid as it is essentially WIS/PIS at best. My theory is not speculation it is fact for Telepathy-based Mr. X. Like I said, you are lucky that Esquire felt sorry for Mr. X and allowed all of his scans rather than those that are Telepathy-based like in the OP.

#31 Posted by name12345 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill: so... can we go to vote now?

#32 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

That is fine now, Esquire said it was okay.

#33 Posted by boschePG (2690 posts) - - Show Bio

you guys already have my vote in this battle.

#34 Posted by name12345 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschePG: Yeah, thank you!

WE NEED MORE VOTES PEOPLE!!

#35 Posted by boschePG (2690 posts) - - Show Bio

bump. need more votes people

#36 Edited by Dane (10649 posts) - - Show Bio

I felt that you both misrepresented your characters tbh. Some of your points for each were quite good. But the members on these teams have a lot of feats that were never shown or used in your descriptions. The battle didn't really play out the way I would imagine. I think the debate focused more on small, scrappy details rather than either side describing a situation that made more sense than the other.
 
In the end, I have to vote for Name12345. Basically he had more satisfactory counter arguments. He represented his team a bit better. I felt like his arguments were founded in a very slightly higher order of logic. It was pretty close though.

#37 Posted by name12345 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dane:

it's true, i guess this battle was a little boring to follow.. that's why no one voted... i'll remember it!!

#38 Posted by ToO_RaW (1116 posts) - - Show Bio

DireDrill is my vote

#39 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote for @DireDrill since Nightcrawler is a big advantage in this battle, and he did a good debate too :)

#40 Posted by Fetts (4534 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dane said: 
In the end, I have to vote for Name12345. Basically he had more satisfactory counter arguments. He represented his team a bit better. I felt like his arguments were founded in a very slightly higher order of logic. It was pretty close though.
I have to agree with this. Giving the win to Name12345.
#41 Posted by God_Spawn (38293 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dane said:

I felt that you both misrepresented your characters tbh. Some of your points for each were quite good. But the members on these teams have a lot of feats that were never shown or used in your descriptions. The battle didn't really play out the way I would imagine. I think the debate focused more on small, scrappy details rather than either side describing a situation that made more sense than the other.

In the end, I have to vote for Name12345. Basically he had more satisfactory counter arguments. He represented his team a bit better. I felt like his arguments were founded in a very slightly higher order of logic. It was pretty close though.

This.

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