@HigorM: How does that help him see some one invisible? Telling them to hit where? Its kinda hrd to direct some to hit infront of you, while your trying to move. By the time they see him Aang will be in a different place. But he won't try to be hiding or dissapering, he's looking for Aang.
Thats where this is, if he's flying close to the ground there is no where they can hide, he will eventually find them
But they'll be ttacking him all at once, and he can't dogde them all ( unless you can show me a scan prving that Tim can take a Swordsmen, Chi Blocker, and Knife throwing master al while dogde 15 solders with asulte rifles ). Cain and GA will be to busy with Aang coming from behind them and killing them
See above
He could brake out the net with fire, but they'l already be dead
@HigorM: How does that help him see some one invisible? Telling them to hit where? Its kinda hrd to direct some to hit infront of you, while your trying to move. By the time they see him Aang will be in a different place. But he won't try to be hiding or dissapering, he's looking for Aang.
Thats where this is, if he's flying close to the ground there is no where they can hide, he will eventually find them
But they'll be ttacking him all at once, and he can't dogde them all ( unless you can show me a scan prving that Tim can take a Swordsmen, Chi Blocker, and Knife throwing master al while dogde 15 solders with asulte rifles ). Cain and GA will be to busy with Aang coming from behind them and killing them
See above
He could brake out the net with fire, but they'l already be dead
He´s looking for Aang in a stealth mode, that´s the whole point, that´s how he´s going to take him by surprise and that´s what Batman does in a regular basis.. All Batman need to do is show him the right direction, one explosive batarang will do the job, the Green Arrow doesn´t need more then that, and the glue arrow have a splash damage so it´s not going to be that hard.
Here Green Arrow hits a target from several football pitches away:
He won´t find anyone since Batman moves silently and through the shadows, using the stealth technique which he is expert, he will be in constant movement, so the fact Aang will also be moving close to the ground just makes it easier for Batman to locate him first. He can also use smoke pellets to help him in the process, so he will know whether the enemy passed that point or not, if he does not see, David Cain and Green Arrow will be there to warn him also.
Tim also possess some particular gadget that will be very useful in this fight and will work properly since my team have prep time. These two following gadgets will help them find the enemy first:
Micro-camera: a small camera primarily used to collect photographic evidence.
Micro-computer: a small fully-functional computer.
Not to mention the plastic explosive that can be set as a trap for the enemies:
Plastic explosive: sticky explosives that are used to destroy structures.
Like I said before, those 15 agents are non-factor here, all my team members deals with that kind of enemies every day. Tim won´t engage in a fight alone with those three, David Cain and Green Arrow are there to help him. Tim is a master of martial arts, who possess extensive training in many different areas (pressure points and leopard blow), not to mentions his gadgets and weapons that can be used in this fight.
Weaponry
Bo: a custom-made, retractable bo staff that serves as Tim's primary weapon. The bo has small holes drilled in either end to create a whistling effect when wielded, which disorients opponents and keeps them off guard.
Batarang, throwing discs and 'R'-shurikens: offensive weapons that can be thrown as projectiles or boomerangs.
Bolas: cords with weighted ends designed to ensnare opponents when throwing in a gyrating motion. These bolas can emit an electric shock if needed.
Tim Drake
Learning healing methods and pressure points from Rahul Lama and sparring with his top student, Shen Chi:
Gallery
Tim is shown much later in his career pwning Shen chi, while preoccupied:
Gallery
Using a little bit of "prep" before one of his spars with Lady Shiva then beating her:
Gallery
BATMAN
Overpowering a large number of armed gangsters:
Gallery
Takes out a gang of highly skilled martial artists posing as armed bank robbers:
Gallery
By the time Aang manage to get rid of the net he will be already defeated..
@HigorM: But Aang will be ether in the air or on a building until he finds some of your team. What do you mean stealth mode, its the middle of the day during this fight. If he uses smoke pellets Aang will definitely find him first, giant smoke cloud coming off the ground.
Green Arrow and Cain aren't sneaking are they, Aang can take them out still with out them knowing. Before he fights Batman and maybe Tim.
The explosive arrows could be tanked by Aang with ease, remember the Black Panther suit i got
Ok, maybe they could take my extra's, maybe. But Aang could still take them both
Ok i'm gonna sum up my slightly tweeked strategy so far real quick, again
Cain and Arrow will go and get in a strategic place during your prep
When the battle starts Batman and Tim will go sneaking around looking for my team, while Aang flys up while invisible and looks for your team.
He will most likely find Arrow and Cain first, He would kill them on site with a fire blast to the head
At the same time Bats will have found my extra's but see that video of Ty Lee and Mai, that with Sokka ( i'll give you some feats of his in a bit ) Tim will be overwhelmed, Any of them could take him out with only a couple hits, but even if they don't take him he'll be injured. Bats will obeously go for the agenst first with guns rather than the blade wielding teens, and by the time he takes all the agenst Tim will be dead
Then Aang will find Batman and his team ( probably dead by now ) and they'll fight. I have said before how Aang would win and i really don't think i need to again, just see above
Things to remember:
Aang is invisible during this whole thing and Batman will be the only one that will know were he's at, and thats only at close range
Any explosions, punches, arrows, or batarangs that may hit Aang could be tanked by Black Panther's Suit
Anything that gets passed that and damages him really bad he can heal with the spray
So again, what wrong with this? If Tim survives he'll easily be taken by Aang with Batman
52:35 to 53:55 he figures out a way to take out all the guards at once, 61:00 to 63:22, takes out a hole fire bending army, 70:00 to 71:50, still taking out that army
6:35 to 7:50, thats all his plan but his dad had to enplane it , 18:30 to 18:40, quick combat feat, 19:10 to 19:55, he takes down 3 battlements ( with help ) and slices straight through metal
So him with Mai and Ty Lee could take Tim, his Staff would get cut in half by Sokka. I just don't see how he could take all three of these people at once
@HigorM: But Aang will be ether in the air or on a building until he finds some of your team. What do you mean stealth mode, its the middle of the day during this fight. If he uses smoke pellets Aang will definitely find him first, giant smoke cloud coming off the ground.
Green Arrow and Cain aren't sneaking are they, Aang can take them out still with out them knowing. Before he fights Batman and maybe Tim.
The explosive arrows could be tanked by Aang with ease, remember the Black Panther suit i got
Ok, maybe they could take my extra's, maybe. But Aang could still take them both
Ok i'm gonna sum up my slightly tweeked strategy so far real quick, again
Cain and Arrow will go and get in a strategic place during your prep
When the battle starts Batman and Tim will go sneaking around looking for my team, while Aang flys up while invisible and looks for your team.
He will most likely find Arrow and Cain first, He would kill them on site with a fire blast to the head
At the same time Bats will have found my extra's but see that video of Ty Lee and Mai, that with Sokka ( i'll give you some feats of his in a bit ) Tim will be overwhelmed, Any of them could take him out with only a couple hits, but even if they don't take him he'll be injured. Bats will obeously go for the agenst first with guns rather than the blade wielding teens, and by the time he takes all the agenst Tim will be dead
Then Aang will find Batman and his team ( probably dead by now ) and they'll fight. I have said before how Aang would win and i really don't think i need to again, just see above
Things to remember:
Aang is invisible during this whole thing and Batman will be the only one that will know were he's at, and thats only at close range
Any explosions, punches, arrows, or batarangs that may hit Aang could be tanked by Black Panther's Suit
Anything that gets passed that and damages him really bad he can heal with the spray
So again, what wrong with this? If Tim survives he'll easily be taken by Aang with Batman
What are you talking about, there are several buildings in this place, the sun light doesn´t reach every single corner do you agree?
Batman will find Aang first since he will disperse the smoke denouncing his position.
Cain and Ollie are expert fighters, and know the art of stealth and disguise, they know the enemy and got time to prep, and above all they´re being guided by Batman.
Explosive arrows are just for distraction and not a definitive way to defeat him.
1. Correct
2. First part is right, but the second is confusing, first you said he is going to fly up to the sky invisible looking for my team, which is a ineffective way to find my team since all he´s going to see is buildings, then you say that he is going to look for them flying close to the ground where traps are set, with plastic explosives, smoke pellets, tear gas and etc..
3. I belive Batman will find him first since he knows what he is looking for and got time to prepare to do it properly.
4. He can engage them eventually, and I honestly believe that none of them are in Tim Drake´s league of combat skill, or effective equipment that can make a difference, the only one with a really good weapon is Sokka and he got to engage in close range to actually do something. He´s not going to be expecting a taser for example, one hit K.O. since Sokka or the others doesn´t have any great durability to resist it.
5. I think you need because that wasn´t convincing enough.
- Batman can find him close range or not, since he established for both conditions through his time for preparation, once he find Aang, he will immediately inform the others via communicators from Red Robin´s utility belt;
- True, but that will all serve as distraction for the tactic properly works, glue and net arrow combined with Tim Drake´s bolas and cuffs, Batman will be able to use a tear gas to knock him out, since once immobilize, he won´t have a way to defend himself.
- The spray will not be necessary for him since he can´t heal from knockout, ask Wolverine.
Im voting for HigorM. This was a great debate.It was really close, but you know what got me...it was the vid of Aang's earthbending. The Aang vs Azula vid, Aang was very sloppy and messed up twice. HigorM. final answer
I gotta agree with boschePG. I'm voting forHigorM. A lot of Joewells arguements seem to rely on Aang seeing everything, being invisible, and being able to multitask. Too many variables IMO.
that is what Im saying too that CaptainDoeo said. I think HigorM presented more counters and reasons against Aang. It was more like Aang can do this, and Aang can do that while HigorM presented more with not only Batman, but his other members as well. When people have to do too much its starts becoming unbelievable in my opinion and then to throw in HigorM also had the numbers
I'll go with Joewell. I wasn't convinced with the batman stealth feats vs seismic sense argument, and HigorM never gave me too much of a great idea how he's going to deal with a bloodlusted invisible aang.
This was a very hard decision. HigorM I feel like debated better than joewell did overall. However, the ways he had for detecting an invisible Aang was a little iffy for me, and that's the most critical factor here in my opinion. Firstly, how is the team going to know if Aang is there at all if he's invisible? The team has no knowledge of the add-ons. For all they know he's in a different part of town.
That said, I think it'd end out playing like this based on the two strategies. Batman and Robin should take care of the cannon fodder within seconds to be quite frank, and they shouldn't pose too much of a threat at all if handled properly (which happens every time). However I could see Aang getting the drop on Green Arrow and David Cain by the time Batman and Robin are done. But if Aang is using fireballs then I don't think the two snipers are necessarily going to be out for the count. Burning to death is a bit of a slower process giving time for a teammate to help put out the fire. Batman's way of detecting Aang again is a little iffy. You're firstly assuming that Aang is going to even use martial arts (which isn't unlikely, but it's not definite either) so that Aang would be close enough for Batman to feel his breathing. The smoke pellet idea may or may not work.
So in conclusion, while I think there's a good chance of Higor's ways of detection failing, given that he has multiple ways and that there's also a decent enough chance that either of them could work, I think I'm going to give a very slight edge to HigorM. Good debate on both sides though!
@Esquire: Can I ask if we're still waiting on anybody and when Round 2 might start?
After reading through all this, I feel you both did a great job! Good debate guys alot of points were made but at the end of the day I'm giving my nod to @HigorM: I feel your arguments were a bit more complete, nothing against@joewell, you ran a great debate as well, great job guys!
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